Southern Baptist president calls for members to declare: ‘Black lives matter’

randay047

Pigeon
Just how do you know that? Probably you learned this from some African Studies Communist textbook author.

Some slaves were treated very humanely, some savagely, from the beginning of time. Making generalities about individual experiences is not being very open minded.

The poster that you are replying to never said such a thing. Nobody here is denying that some slaves were treated well.

There are biblical parameters around how slavery is to be conducted. Ultimately, it's about being a bondservant and, in the end, all bonds are nil after 7 years of serving one's master, having fulfilled one's bond. Now that slave or bondservant is welcome to leave or continue to work for his master.

I think it's pretty clear that these parameters were not followed in the west, whether slaves were treated well or not. Obviously there's more to this subject than I've said here, and we can go into the biblical case for slavery if you like, but again, I'm not convinced that these parameters were followed by anyone, perhaps with the possible exception of Israelites before the Babylonian captivity, but I'm not certain on that one. Obviously they had their own problems with disobeying God too, so I'm sure they broke these laws too.

But I digress
 

N°6

Hummingbird
Anyone who grew up around Baptists will note the fervent emotional appeal of that sect of Christianity. I experienced about 100 alter calls for conversion at the various churches I visited while spending time with family friends at their churches in my youth... many times it was a repeat of last week's dancers/drinkers/proverbial sinners only to be re-dedicated toward absolution until next friday/saturday night for a repeat on sunday.

but here's tom with the weather.....

it’s a historic problem with evangelical churches who seek to undertake the Great Commission. They make converts but the standing order is “to to make disciples”.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
Besides the congregational structure, and para-church orgs like Conservative Baptist Network and Founders pushing back, there's also the fact that the longest an SBC president is in office is about 2 years on average. God willing, after JD Greer steps down, the next president will be a non-Woke reaction produced by the backlash that is rising.
The SBC rotates its presidents, who are mostly just figureheads.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
The poster that you are replying to never said such a thing. Nobody here is denying that some slaves were treated well.

There are biblical parameters around how slavery is to be conducted. Ultimately, it's about being a bondservant and, in the end, all bonds are nil after 7 years of serving one's master, having fulfilled one's bond. Now that slave or bondservant is welcome to leave or continue to work for his master.

I think it's pretty clear that these parameters were not followed in the west, whether slaves were treated well or not. Obviously there's more to this subject than I've said here, and we can go into the biblical case for slavery if you like, but again, I'm not convinced that these parameters were followed by anyone, perhaps with the possible exception of Israelites before the Babylonian captivity, but I'm not certain on that one. Obviously they had their own problems with disobeying God too, so I'm sure they broke these laws too.

But I digress
He said that chattel slaver was far more brutal and
The poster that you are replying to never said such a thing. Nobody here is denying that some slaves were treated well.

There are biblical parameters around how slavery is to be conducted. Ultimately, it's about being a bondservant and, in the end, all bonds are nil after 7 years of serving one's master, having fulfilled one's bond. Now that slave or bondservant is welcome to leave or continue to work for his master.

I think it's pretty clear that these parameters were not followed in the west, whether slaves were treated well or not. Obviously there's more to this subject than I've said here, and we can go into the biblical case for slavery if you like, but again, I'm not convinced that these parameters were followed by anyone, perhaps with the possible exception of Israelites before the Babylonian captivity, but I'm not certain on that one. Obviously they had their own problems with disobeying God too, so I'm sure they broke these laws too.

But I digress
Dude stated that slavery in US was far more brutal and oppressive, but how does he know that as a generality? Let me guess, indoctrination in a public school? More identity politics, where people make blanket statements about people, like White privilege, toxic masculinity, the wage gap, etc.

Ancient times had slaves and bond servants, much different and distinct. Slaves were captured, bought and sold like livestock.

Bond servants would voluntarily sign on to pay off debt or have a stable place to live and eat. They work until their term is done, then they are free again.

The SBC was formed as a result of a split over slavery.

Another tidbit of trivia, Stonewall Jackson, whose statues are being torn down all over, taught Blacks Sunday School.
 

randay047

Pigeon
He said that chattel slaver was far more brutal and

Dude stated that slavery in US was far more brutal and oppressive, but how does he know that as a generality? Let me guess, indoctrination in a public school? More identity politics, where people make blanket statements about people, like White privilege, toxic masculinity, the wage gap, etc.

Ancient times had slaves and bond servants, much different and distinct. Slaves were captured, bought and sold like livestock.

Bond servants would voluntarily sign on to pay off debt or have a stable place to live and eat. They work until their term is done, then they are free again.

The SBC was formed as a result of a split over slavery.

Another tidbit of trivia, Stonewall Jackson, whose statues are being torn down all over, taught Blacks Sunday School.
All slavery contrary to biblical standards is brutal and unjust.
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I occasionally hire a guy who is a black Caribbean for construction work. He can do just about anything, but he is always flat broke, whether I haven't called him in a month, or I have paid him in cash for 5 days straight, the next day he will not have more than $10.

I have often thought how similar his life is to slavery. In slavery, housing, food, shelter, and clothing would all be provided, in exchange for work. With "freedom," this man has problems keeping his rent paid and is often staying in pay-by-the-week hotels. He has no transportation and relies on others to help him get by.

If he was my slave, I would provide him housing and food and shelter, which probably would cost similar to what I'm paying him now. There would be some loyalty and trust between us. I would look after his long term health and wellbeing, whereas now I only care about paying him at the end of the day. No one seriously entertains the notion of slavery returning, but it was not some awful, barbaric state of being, and in many, many cases, would not drastically change someone's life today, or perhaps, sadly, be an improvement. If you doubt that, just take a look at former slave interviews.

The University of Virginia compiled a list of interviews with former slaves. One common theme is that the slaves are just not that excited about "freedom." They talk about how it's ok to be free I guess, but black folks be actin crazy and getting drunk and killin and stealing now and theres no massah to help them when they get sick or tired.

Here is just one excerpt, around 70 years after emancipation:

Freedom is all right, but de niggers was better off befo' surrender, kaze den dey was looked after an' dey didn' get in no trouble fightin' an' killin' like dey do dese days. If a nigger cut up an' got sassy in slavery times, his Ole Marse give him a good whippin' an' he went way back an' set down an' 'haved hese'f. If he was sick, Marse an' Mistis looked after him, an' if he needed store medicine, it was bought an' give to him; he didn' have to pay nothin'. Dey didn' even have to think 'bout clothes nor nothin' like dat, dey was wove an' made an' give to dem. Maybe everybody's Marse and Mistis wuzn' good as Marse George and Mis' Betsy, but dey was de same as a mammy an' pappy to us niggers."
Source: American Slave: North Carolina Narratives14 (1): 284-290.
 

Based

Sparrow
My advice on this is to keep a level head and see this as clear evidence of infiltration and subversion. Sadly this has happened to many churches which are a microcosm of the broader subverted society. Too bad but we march on. I would say avoid such churches like the (real) plague and find solace in genuine churches.
 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
Just how do you know that?
Because I've actually studied the historical context of the New Testament. And you obviously have not. If you actually have some interest in educating yourself, this article from Christian Thinktank is a good place to start.

Probably you learned this from some African Studies Communist textbook author.
Where do you get this baloney from? It's obvious that both the victim narrative of marxist agitators and neo-Confederate revisionists are exaggerations and the truth is somewhere in the middle (and likely varied from one region to the next, among other factors.) Either way, relatively speaking it was "brutal and oppressive" compared to New Testament "slavery"/bondservant-dom, which was the point you completely missed.

Some slaves were treated very humanely, some savagely, from the beginning of time. Making generalities about individual experiences is not being very open minded.
Thanks for this bland, irrelevant observation.

Dude stated that slavery in US was far more brutal and oppressive, but how does he know that as a generality? Let me guess, indoctrination in a public school? More identity politics, where people make blanket statements about people, like White privilege, toxic masculinity, the wage gap, etc.

If you actually knew anything about my views (or education, for that matter) you'd be embarrassed to make this kind of moronic statement. Absolutely none of those things apply to me.

Ancient times had slaves and bond servants, much different and distinct. Slaves were captured, bought and sold like livestock.

Bond servants would voluntarily sign on to pay off debt or have a stable place to live and eat. They work until their term is done, then they are free again.

Prepare to be shocked: when the New Testament talks about "slavery", it's talking about bondservants. Hence why newer Bible translations usually use the latter term to add clarity here.

Anyway, the point of my previous post wasn't "Muh Roots, We Wuz Slaves" but that the New Testament's discussion over slavery concerns an institution far more nuanced than what most contemporary people think about when they hear the word, and simply that we should handle such issues surrounding scriptural interpretation with care given the discrepancy involved - neither the 19th century "The Bible talks about slavery and Paul tells Onesimus to go back to his master so it's okay!" justifications or using scripture to justify (((revolutionary))) activity. A pretty benign, in retrospect even boring, observation. Quite different from how this guy got triggered by a word or two and threw a fit over a bunch of imagined nonsense I wasn't saying.
 

magaman

Robin
A lot of slaves were not happy to be "free" after the Civil War. The Civil War was not about slaves, it was about states' rights. The northern states banned slaves but only for the southern states, not for all states. The last state to give up slaves was New Jersey, a union state.
 

budoslavic

Owl
Orthodox
Gold Member
Southern Baptists have gone woke.





@ToddStarnes: The New York Times says the Southern Baptist Convention defeated a conservative takeover. They are not wrong.

Torba: I’m getting reports from friends inside the Southern Baptist Convention confirming the same.

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f31a5df36244dcf9.jpeg
 
It's true. All of it.

I wrestled with conflict and denial for awhile. But the doctrinal issues I encountered as I studied the early church more, as well as the rampant corruption in the upper levels of leadership and overarching organizations that one's tithes go to (ERLC, Cooperative Program, etc.) ultimately drove me to the point where I have left the SBC, and will be joining a LCMS church soon.

Now upon finding out that the newest president is even worse than the last, I am even more at peace with God's direction for me. The SBC has officially fallen. It's just another Mainline Protestant denomination on the verge of splitting now:




Note: The new president is Ed Litton, not Mike Litton, as the typo in the video titles say.
 

magaman

Robin
It all begins with supporting feminism. Once your church does that it is done. Complete cuckoldry is inevitable and the real men will leave. That is one of the many reasons why Protestant Christianity is considered to be a woman's religion.
This must be why I've been gravitating towards Catholicism and falling away from Protestantism. In actuality there are a few reasons why but yeah I've realized that Protestantism is weak Christianity. Sometimes it's hard for me to believe I'm saying this, I never would have imagined just a year or two ago that I'd have changed so much. I believe this forum has helped me a lot with my self-reflection but my work has only begun
 
This must be why I've been gravitating towards Catholicism and falling away from Protestantism. In actuality there are a few reasons why but yeah I've realized that Protestantism is weak Christianity. Sometimes it's hard for me to believe I'm saying this, I never would have imagined just a year or two ago that I'd have changed so much. I believe this forum has helped me a lot with my self-reflection but my work has only begun
crossing the Tiber.jpeg

(Ignore the bridge! Swimming is the best exercise!)
 
In the olden times where I live there were looser morals on premarital sex compared to the rest of the country. We were big on shotgun weddings though.
Honestly, I don't really respect separatist Protestants like the Apostolics or Holiness groups, to use a couple of examples that are prominent where I live. In my experience their women are controlling and their men are weak. It's even worse than your normal evangelical church.

In my twenties I had a friend who would regularly invite me to his large Pentecostal Church, which I must admit had some of the most lovely women I have ever seen. But the strange thing was that while the "keep everything covered/show no mid-riff/show no cleavage or porn shoulders" was zealously obeyed, these women wore extremely skin tight/body hugging outfits. I asked my friend why this was and he explained, "well, they are looking for husbands!" Lol At a certain point the pastor gently but firmly asked the women to stop wearing such tight body hugging outfits to church, and to prioritize being modest in dress.
 

Godward

Robin
Being a former Protestant myself, I feel sympathy and sorry for my Christian brothers and sisters who are still in Protestant churches. Not that everything is swell in Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but what is happening in the Protestant churches with LGBTQWERTY and BLM/CRT is a whole new level of decay, because it not only affects people's behavior, but also church doctrine. And most importantly: Protestantism does not have the theological and institutional structure to prevent or mitigate such postmodern decay. There is simply no Tradition and/or Authority to hold unto. Everything is fluid. So, you would be waiting in vain if you are a Southern Baptist hoping and praying for a some new Great Awakening. The Reformation has warped into full-blown Retardation, and that is its final stage before it turns into secularization and Atheism. Rather, Protestants should retain the good parts of their tradition (such as their scriptural knowledge and their sense for community etc.) and return to the Mother Church. I am sorry for putting it so bluntly, but it is what it is. It really is time to go.
 

Godward

Robin
And to add: not only is there no Tradition and/or Authority to hold unto, but there are also (almost) no Sacraments, being "outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification" (source). There is thus no "objectivity" in Protestantism; everything is subjective and therefore fluid. Even the most conservative Protestant churches are fighting temptation, sin, worldliness etcetera with their hands tied behind their back: the Catholics and Orthodox are doing so with their boxing gloves on.
 
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Catholic churches around the world--and in my area--shut down and stopped offering the Sacraments. Pretty fluid there, bro. Wondering how I could grow spiritually in a place where obedience to the state for material reasons is more important than the Sacraments.
 

Godward

Robin
The American Catholic Church has had an overdose of Americanism, hence its holier-than-thou obedience to the State. In my own nation, though, the archbishop eventually ordered parishes that stopped offering the sacraments to start offering them again. Yet, most parishes still abide by silly rules such as a maximum number of parishoners etc. Only the few traditionalist Catholic churches here are still operating normally. But even the mainstream parishes have not introduced some CRT mea culpa like the Southern Baptists are doing. Not yet, anyway. The moment any church is doing that, you know you have to find a new church immediately.
 

M_M

Pigeon
Being a former Protestant myself, I feel sympathy and sorry for my Christian brothers and sisters who are still in Protestant churches. Not that everything is swell in Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but what is happening in the Protestant churches with LGBTQWERTY and BLM/CRT is a whole new level of decay, because it not only affects people's behavior, but also church doctrine. And most importantly: Protestantism does not have the theological and institutional structure to prevent or mitigate such postmodern decay. There is simply no Tradition and/or Authority to hold unto. Everything is fluid. So, you would be waiting in vain if you are a Southern Baptist hoping and praying for a some new Great Awakening. The Reformation has warped into full-blown Retardation, and that is its final stage before it turns into secularization and Atheism. Rather, Protestants should retain the good parts of their tradition (such as their scriptural knowledge and their sense for community etc.) and return to the Mother Church. I am sorry for putting it so bluntly, but it is what it is. It really is time to go.
No. We should return to God. Not to the “Mother Church”.
 
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