Staten Island man dies after NYPD cop puts him on chokehold
- Thread starter MidWest
- Start date
There are two issues here. One is about police brutality and one is about racism.
This one is about police brutality arresting a hardened career criminal behaving the way career criminals (with lack of brain) behave everywhere. The second is that of race, which is a non-factor (because the guy is a career criminal), but race will be the one that gets people on the streets, it's also the angle the media will continue to play.
This clearly isn't about race. It's about if police can use choke holds and if they shouldn't try to work on non violent conflict resolution instead.
This is not about race. Why own a guy like this or Michael Brown as 'one of us', when you could make much better case against police use of force? Which would actually benefit everyone who is a law abiding citizen.
This one is about police brutality arresting a hardened career criminal behaving the way career criminals (with lack of brain) behave everywhere. The second is that of race, which is a non-factor (because the guy is a career criminal), but race will be the one that gets people on the streets, it's also the angle the media will continue to play.
This clearly isn't about race. It's about if police can use choke holds and if they shouldn't try to work on non violent conflict resolution instead.
This is not about race. Why own a guy like this or Michael Brown as 'one of us', when you could make much better case against police use of force? Which would actually benefit everyone who is a law abiding citizen.
#Crimingwhilewhite puts focus on police and race
Wednesday's grand jury's decision that a New York police officer shouldn't face charges over the death of Eric Garner has prompted protests and a Twitter dialogue about how folks feel law enforcement treats people depending upon race.
Check out this story on USATODAY.com: http://usat.ly/1CGSShO
but this isn't about race though...
:huh::huh:
Wednesday's grand jury's decision that a New York police officer shouldn't face charges over the death of Eric Garner has prompted protests and a Twitter dialogue about how folks feel law enforcement treats people depending upon race.
Check out this story on USATODAY.com: http://usat.ly/1CGSShO
but this isn't about race though...
:huh::huh:
The thing is, the police offer was just following orders. If he were to be arrested for following orders, then the entire system would undermine itself to the point of being inoperable. Cops are selected for their obedience to the law. They don't want cops who use discretion in enforcing the law. They want obedient soldiers.
This guy put Eric Garner in a chokehold because those were his orders. The problem isn't the cops, the problem isn't racism, the problem is the laws themselves.
- Illegally selling cigarettes? Talk about a bullshit law.
- Cops being told to use near lethal force at the first sign of resistance? Good for preserving the cop's life, bad for preserving citizen's lives. Where is the balance?
People are focusing their efforts on the wrong problem. It's not the cop who matters, he was just a peon following orders. It's the entire system. But people can't see the big picture, they can only focus on the particulars. Hence the escalating race relations.
This guy put Eric Garner in a chokehold because those were his orders. The problem isn't the cops, the problem isn't racism, the problem is the laws themselves.
- Illegally selling cigarettes? Talk about a bullshit law.
- Cops being told to use near lethal force at the first sign of resistance? Good for preserving the cop's life, bad for preserving citizen's lives. Where is the balance?
People are focusing their efforts on the wrong problem. It's not the cop who matters, he was just a peon following orders. It's the entire system. But people can't see the big picture, they can only focus on the particulars. Hence the escalating race relations.
TheWastelander
Ostrich
Samseau said:
He wasn't ordered to choke Garner out. In fact, the chokehold is against NYPD policy. So if anything, he violated "his orders."
But yes the problem is largely a systemic one. Instead of talking about things like that, we have the usual suspects in going around talking about how the Tea Party and whites are to blame for racism in this country.
The left has ensured nothing will ever be done about police brutality because they always make the focus about race instead of the brutality and alienate large groups of people. In reality I don't think many people actually give a fuck and if they aren't willing to vote against the reigning regime, Democrat or Republican, that control the police and let them get away with everything, they're full of shit. In my humble opinion.
Start with the peons and work your way up.
In chess the pawns go first and are sacrificed if need be.
If you play your pawns right, you can use them to great effect or even win the game.
In chess the pawns go first and are sacrificed if need be.
If you play your pawns right, you can use them to great effect or even win the game.
AntiTrace
Ostrich
The biggest problem in this country is that to many people attempt to be an authority on a subject regardless of the information they have, their experience in the subject, and their obvious biased opinions.
Black on black crime happens all the time. White on white crime happens all the time. Black on white crime happens all the time. White on black crime happens all the time. Crime just happens. Yet the only time people wanna scream at the heavens is when its white on black crime. I'm sick of hearing about it. I'm sick of uniformed and biased individuals claiming any form of authority on a subject.
How many of the rioters that were"outraged" by lack of indictments in any high profile "racial" case have even a rudimentary knowledge of legal matters? They are outraged by something they can't even debate intelligently about.
Trayvon case: A whole movement of people wanted to burn Zimmerman at the stake. They had what information? A personal account or two.
Brown case: A whole movement of people still want to burn Wilson at the stake. They have some shitty video footage and some personal accounts.
Garner case: A whole movement of people want to burn NYC cops at the stake. They have a 2 minute video (that is also obviously edited).
Garner and Brown are issues of police brutality not race. The media and soap box drama queens made it about race. The uneducated masses followed their lead. Wilson was was not indicted in a court of law. NYC officers weren't indicted in a court of law. They were found not guilty after an extensive trial that examined all evidence and the confines of the legal system by lawyers and judges who have spent years, decades, and lifetimes studying the legal system. Yet I have to deal with high-school dropout Ladasha waving her finger in my face demanding "Justice". That is justice, that's how the legal system works, honey. It's a damn good thing too, because if justice was determined by mob mentality we'd still be burning witches.
People need to stop with the whole race thing.
Black on black crime happens all the time. White on white crime happens all the time. Black on white crime happens all the time. White on black crime happens all the time. Crime just happens. Yet the only time people wanna scream at the heavens is when its white on black crime. I'm sick of hearing about it. I'm sick of uniformed and biased individuals claiming any form of authority on a subject.
How many of the rioters that were"outraged" by lack of indictments in any high profile "racial" case have even a rudimentary knowledge of legal matters? They are outraged by something they can't even debate intelligently about.
Trayvon case: A whole movement of people wanted to burn Zimmerman at the stake. They had what information? A personal account or two.
Brown case: A whole movement of people still want to burn Wilson at the stake. They have some shitty video footage and some personal accounts.
Garner case: A whole movement of people want to burn NYC cops at the stake. They have a 2 minute video (that is also obviously edited).
Garner and Brown are issues of police brutality not race. The media and soap box drama queens made it about race. The uneducated masses followed their lead. Wilson was was not indicted in a court of law. NYC officers weren't indicted in a court of law. They were found not guilty after an extensive trial that examined all evidence and the confines of the legal system by lawyers and judges who have spent years, decades, and lifetimes studying the legal system. Yet I have to deal with high-school dropout Ladasha waving her finger in my face demanding "Justice". That is justice, that's how the legal system works, honey. It's a damn good thing too, because if justice was determined by mob mentality we'd still be burning witches.
People need to stop with the whole race thing.
The more I see people trying to convince everyone else when something is supposedly not about race, I think they should realize that they're really only trying to convince themselves.
I can't find the post now, but someone asked about the cause of death, the death was officially ruled as a homicide, ‘compression of the neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.’
That was the official finding of the ME who performed the autopsy, so any talks of Garner's weight, asthma, etc. are just diversions from the truth.
I can't find the post now, but someone asked about the cause of death, the death was officially ruled as a homicide, ‘compression of the neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.’
That was the official finding of the ME who performed the autopsy, so any talks of Garner's weight, asthma, etc. are just diversions from the truth.
AntiTrace
Ostrich
Interesting. It seems to come down to semantics.
For example that definition was pulled from Miriam Webster i think.
However at http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/homicide-definition.html homicide is defined to be as any killing of a human.
So I guess it's whatever definition they feel like using. I've always been under the impression that a homicide followed the Miriam Webster definition.
For example that definition was pulled from Miriam Webster i think.
However at http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/homicide-definition.html homicide is defined to be as any killing of a human.
So I guess it's whatever definition they feel like using. I've always been under the impression that a homicide followed the Miriam Webster definition.
So the damning thing to me in the video is that they have a LOT of officers on him and he is not visibly resisting arrest after he goes to the ground. Past that point the officer is still choking him (sure appears to be REALLY hard) and continues to choke him, then transitions to putting a lot of his weight on the guy's head as the cops continue to yell "put your hand behind your back" as if the guy has any hope of doing this while splayed out with multiple officers over him including one holding down his head and straddling the very same shoulder of the arm that they want behind his back.
There are laws against "cruel and unusual punishment" and this is the basis behind people being outraged that they killed this guy.
I have seen this before, officers yelling, "stop resisting" when they have one officer with their knee in the guy's back and another with his knee in the guy's neck. Which one of you wouldn't react to a knee driven very hard into both your back and neck? Unfortunately it is used as a cover for them to give the perp what they deserved. In this situation I think they went well beyond what was needed to affect the arrest. Even without the guy ending up dead. What possible reason is there to smash the guy's head into the ground and demand that he put his hand behind his back when OTHER OFFICERS ARE IN THE WAY?
There are laws against "cruel and unusual punishment" and this is the basis behind people being outraged that they killed this guy.
I have seen this before, officers yelling, "stop resisting" when they have one officer with their knee in the guy's back and another with his knee in the guy's neck. Which one of you wouldn't react to a knee driven very hard into both your back and neck? Unfortunately it is used as a cover for them to give the perp what they deserved. In this situation I think they went well beyond what was needed to affect the arrest. Even without the guy ending up dead. What possible reason is there to smash the guy's head into the ground and demand that he put his hand behind his back when OTHER OFFICERS ARE IN THE WAY?
Has anyone else noticed that in these past three racial tension-causing events, the SJW crowd spread an absolutely crucial, fundamental lie that was disseminated as fact by the masses?
Trayvon Martin killing: For awhile, it was reported that Zimmerman shot Martin just because he perceived him to be a threat, and was acquitted on the controversial "Stand Your Ground" law. You had to dig for a mention that Martin was straddled on top of Zimmerman, beating him and pounding his head into the pavement, and that Zimmerman was actually acquitted on plain vanilla self-defense.
Michael Brown killing: The rallying cry of protesters around the nation is "hands up, don't shoot!" even though the witnesses who claimed Brown had his hands up were found to be of questionable credibility, and contradicted by many other witnesses who say Brown was in the process of charging at Wilson.
Eric Garner killing: I keep seeing reports that the cop was chokeholding Garner as Garner was saying "I can't breathe!" That's false. Watch the damn video. The cop held his neck for a total of about ten seconds, and had already let go by the time Garner complained he couldn't breathe.
I actually think outrage about the current case has some merit, since the cop was not supposed to use a choke hold at all, and the rest of the officers didn't give the guy space when he said he couldn't breathe. Still, the SJWs and their mainstream media lackeys are being just as shrewd, misleading, and irrational as they always are. No lie is too big for the SJWs to try and convince you of their agenda. Never trust them, and never blindly trust the MSM. Always do your own homework.
Trayvon Martin killing: For awhile, it was reported that Zimmerman shot Martin just because he perceived him to be a threat, and was acquitted on the controversial "Stand Your Ground" law. You had to dig for a mention that Martin was straddled on top of Zimmerman, beating him and pounding his head into the pavement, and that Zimmerman was actually acquitted on plain vanilla self-defense.
Michael Brown killing: The rallying cry of protesters around the nation is "hands up, don't shoot!" even though the witnesses who claimed Brown had his hands up were found to be of questionable credibility, and contradicted by many other witnesses who say Brown was in the process of charging at Wilson.
Eric Garner killing: I keep seeing reports that the cop was chokeholding Garner as Garner was saying "I can't breathe!" That's false. Watch the damn video. The cop held his neck for a total of about ten seconds, and had already let go by the time Garner complained he couldn't breathe.
I actually think outrage about the current case has some merit, since the cop was not supposed to use a choke hold at all, and the rest of the officers didn't give the guy space when he said he couldn't breathe. Still, the SJWs and their mainstream media lackeys are being just as shrewd, misleading, and irrational as they always are. No lie is too big for the SJWs to try and convince you of their agenda. Never trust them, and never blindly trust the MSM. Always do your own homework.