Staying Marketable as an Entrepreneur ( Finance edition)

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worldwidetraveler

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Neo said:
WWT,

The ebook thing was not directed at you, not sure why you took it as as personal attack.

I didn't take anything you said as a personal attack. I was clarifying what I do in case you thought I was into something else.

I have nothing against ebooks. I read many myself.

You stated above that he is either an entrepreneur or he's not and that you personally would rather rebuild over and over than take a job. I'm saying it's not the only way.

I'm saying if he wants marketable skills that would get him a good job, those are skills he needs to concentrate on and develop.

It normally takes quite a few years to even be competitive with all the other people wanting the same job.

This is why he is having problems getting a decent paying job.

I don't feel I could go out tomorrow and get a job. I don't have the amount of time, with the specific skill set to allow me to compete with all the other people who have done nothing else besides that skill set.

As for doing both...

Not many people are able to build a successful business.

Add in working a full time job (many jobs require a lot of time out of the job to stay up on skills) and you have little left over for your side business.

I'm going based on my experiences. I just can't focus on a job and a business if I was serious about that business. Grant it, my previous consulting gigs were in IT which required me to keep up on technology. It's either one or the other and I made that choice over a decade ago.
 

TheThinker

Sparrow
Neo said:
TheThinker, I've read your posts with interest because I currently have a corporate job and have entrepreneurial hustles on the side.

There's a lot of blogs these days related to the current entrepreneur movement, and I've read WAY too many posts that advocate not having a back up plan. That by 'going all in' you will force yourself to succeed.

I think this is dangerous advice.

Agreed. As someone that really has NEVER worked for someone else for more than 4 months or used their degree for anything until a decade after college, I know the real risks of entrepreneurship. I've had products/services that people wanted, I've done 1M plus in revenues a year, I wasn't just trying to figure out how to make money; I was making good money and living a good life (outside of working my ass off) BUT...

It's undisputable that 90+% of entrepreneurs will fail, over and over. It's not even in your control some times. Yes, you can pivot over and over and over, but if a government or state or local municipality wants your industry dead, they will see to it. If a much larger company wants market share, you will struggle to keep your costs low enough to compete. If you aren't an expert in one area after many years of understanding the gaps in a segment, you won't have a competitive edge (hence why successful ventures are started by middle aged corporate guys that understand industries in and out). There are dozens and dozens of variables, many that are out of your control that can sink your ship.

The lesson I've learned are invalable, so yes it was all worth it and yes I will be back stronger than even within a few years. In fact, I'm working on a prototype for a product that I've calculated could do 12M just in my state alone. So NO, I will never stop being an entrepreneur. But you will only ever succeed in the long run if you really learn and cement some very hard lessons and respect that you can drop back to zero.

With that said, there is NOTHING wrong with trying to keep a decently marketable skillset polished, having good contacts that know you are a reliable person, or having a temporary position (be it 6 months, a year, or part-time) to make sure you can keep food on the table while you plan your next venture.

Reading through your posts it seems that you erred on the side of too much risk and didn't diversify your skill-set.

Dead on. I stayed almost exclusively in a niche segement of an industry being decimated in front of my face. After a few years of million dollar revenues, I spent 3 years trying to turn around a sinking ship and I burned good money trying to recreate the past. I was stagnating personally because I spent every day battling to keep enough water out of the boat to keep it from sinking.

Lesson learned. Whether it's relationships or business - if the writing is on the wall - cut it off immediately and put your capital and time to better use.

In your shoes I would do a deeper evaluation of the behaviors that led to your current situation. See what lessons you can learn.

IMO, there is nothing more important and valuable than building the awareness neccessary to view yourself objectively to learn from your mistakes.

Looking back, I had a redicuous EGO, which is something that often takes a long time for people to realize and understand as an impediment to success. I was insultingly confident, even to friends and family. I didn't value anyone or anything that wasn't related to business. I wasn't a reliable friend and barely had a relationhip with my family. I was definately ALL IN but only for myself.

I don't entirely agree with WWT's intial post, but I can see why he believes that it would be hard to do anything other than be a 100% entrepreneur. Back then I felt in a constant state of almost mild panic because I was CEO and the shit worked or hit the fan because of me. In reality, I was taking on every task and doing 95% of the work even though I had a business partner and a marketing director. I should have delegated more and taken on a more fair set of responsibilities.

I was also in a disasterous relationship, hadn't resolved my own insecurities, and didn't respect myself enough to limit the amount of stress/abuse others placed on me. I also had poor money management and risked my personal capital.

This is the CRUX of being a successful entrepreneur because CASH IS KING. In particular, I'm talking about in your personal life. I didn't misspend company funds. I had over a million in my clients trust accounts and not a dime went anywhere except to their creditors. That shit will land your ass in jail, so that's even more important.

But, when it comes to your personal finances, you better be aware and smart. Don't think that the gravy train can't end because it always will and you'll need resources to stay affloat and to figure out your next venture.

Also I completely disagree with worldwide travelers black and white thinking. There's no shame in getting a job to get back on your feet while AT THE SAME TIME using that income to build another business. Working for someone doesn't make you less of an entrepreneur or a failure. In fact it eliminates all stress since your regular job is like corporate sponsorship to your side hustles. ...

A lot of marketers like to hate on the corporate world:

You're a slave man!
Quit your job now!

I use to hate regularly on the corportate world, even though honestly I was also afraid that I wouldn't fit in. My social skills were undeveloped and I spent most of my life planning my escape from the domination of others. I wanted 100% control of my time and 100% autonomy even if I barely scraped by. I can say that it probably came from being controlled heavily by my parents.

To this day, nothing is more important to me that having control over my time and being able to work on my projects. To me the money is inconsequential but I've learned it's essential.

The key is not to stay in the warm blanket for too long and keep up the motivation.

Exactly, just like with relationships - it's hard to get out of that warm blanket even though it's worn, tattered and not really satisfying you. How many guys stay with the same semi-warm girl or semi-good job even if you know you can do better; but it's a risk and people don't like to be cold, broke or alone even temporarily. Luckily, not a problem for me personally these days. I learned that I value respect over love, and won't put up with shit- not from a stranger or from a boss. Even my current girlfriend knows that she comes second to my pursuits beccause self-actualization must precede all else.


Do an experiment. In the US ask a roomful of people if they want a stable job or to start their own business. EVERYBODY wants to start their own business.

Right, but nobody wants to IMPLEMENT. Our government and most of the world thinks that Innovation will save us but it won't. Innovation means didly shit without DOERS.

But how does the guy with a 9-5 and a dream take a chance at a venture without jumping ship of losing his shirt? Just like you, he starts lean or he finds someone that's been down the road. Hence why we can give back and help others by showing them the path of least resistance and lowest risk. But again, we aren't McKinsey so we shouldn't try...

Quick Story:

I remember back when I had just gotten my first townhome style apartment. I was like 22 and finally had no roommates, and had been grinding it out an an entrepreneur with my latest new venture for a few years. I would make a few sales here and there and some months I would do okay. One month, I didn't make any sales and had to invest in marketing and I didn't have the cash to pay my power bill. I went home, the lights were off and I had to light candles just to take a shower. It was a low point that I've never fogotten it. I sat down and accepted where I was in life and however you want to say it or call it, I relinquished a good bit of my ego. I made a promise that I would remember these times and never forget this side of the coin, if the world would give me a chance to make it big. Within 1 year, I had $450,000 in my business bank account. Now, this wasn't net profit but it was night and day from where I was a short time previously. It showed me that I could do it. I just had many more lessons to learn and one was that I either didn't risk it all or I had to have some type of marketable skills or a temporary "plan b".

Thanks for adding value to this thread.
 

TheThinker

Sparrow
worldwidetraveler said:
TheThinker said:
How do you stay marketable as an entreprenuer?

You are either an entrepreneur or you're not. You most definitely don't start a business wondering if you are going to be marketable if things go south.

I can only speak for myself, but I would rather rebuild over and over again than take a job and hope my employers throw me enough scraps to have a decent life.

I hope I have the most unmarketable skills on the planet. All the better for me to make sure whatever I'm working on pays out.

No offense, but it sounds like you really didn't have a business to begin with. Maybe you jumped on the diet pill/trial offers that scammed a lot of people. I don't know if you were into that or not but it sounds like it with your regulation comments.
If that is the case, you really weren't an entrepreneur and it wasn't going to last forever anyway.

WWT, I have respect for your posts and I have no doubt that you've added tremendous value to many threads. I assume that NEO's interpretation of your comments above as "black and white" might have to do more with what appeared to be mild condescension towards the idea that someone could stay semi-marketable and still be an entrepreneur.

Some people get a paid industry education and then branch out knowing all the secrets and details and GAPS in the #1 or #2 company's products/services and become huge competition and wildly successesful.

Some like myself and you only know the world or risk and have built a strong tolerenace for volatility. If I had a backer right now, which I'm working on, I probably wouldn't work for anyone else except if I enjoyed it temporarily.

Others piddle around and enjoy the dreaming more than the doing and thats okay as well for them. They may be labeled wantrapreneurs but they like their blankets more than the cold.

...and there's NEO's plan which to me sounds like the smartest compromise to outright enterpreneurship. He realizes the warm blanket isn't the path and he has to cut the cord at a reasonable time (not just prior to retirement). He's calculating his exit and path into the wild probably at mid 30's and I can respect that as someone that just took a painful drop from a thousand feet.

I still respect that you are a diehard entrepreneur and your opinion that it's hard enough to win full time at the game and I definitely share your take on not begging for scraps.

As for whether it's possible to stay marketable as an entrepreneur, your answer seems very much to be "No".
 

worldwidetraveler

Hummingbird
Gold Member
TheThinker said:
WWT, I have respect for your posts and I have no doubt that you've added tremendous value to many threads. I assume that NEO's interpretation of your comments above as "black and white" might have to do more with what appeared to be mild condescension towards the idea that someone could stay semi-marketable and still be an entrepreneur.

Some people get a paid industry education and then branch out knowing all the secrets and details and GAPS in the #1 or #2 company's products/services and become huge competition and wildly successesful.

Some like myself and you only know the world or risk and have built a strong tolerenace for volatility. If I had a backer right now, which I'm working on, I probably wouldn't work for anyone else except if I enjoyed it temporarily.

Others piddle around and enjoy the dreaming more than the doing and thats okay as well for them. They may be labeled wantrapreneurs but they like their blankets more than the cold.

...and there's NEO's plan which to me sounds like the smartest compromise to outright enterpreneurship. He realizes the warm blanket isn't the path and he has to cut the cord at a reasonable time (not just prior to retirement). He's calculating his exit and path into the wild probably at mid 30's and I can respect that as someone that just took a painful drop from a thousand feet.

I still respect that you are a diehard entrepreneur and your opinion that it's hard enough to win full time at the game and I definately share your take on not begging for scraps.

There was no condescension intended in my posts.

I could understand your point if you have already put in the time to hone a marketable skill. You didn't, you went right for the entrepreneurial path. Nothing wrong with that but to compete, for a job, you are going against other people who have focused on their marketable skill set and only that skill set for many years.

You seem to have already made up your mind.

You think you can dip your toes into two puddles and you will be safer because of it. I don't see it happening because of the reason I already stated. Even if you got back into your own gig, you will still be taking yourself out of competition for what could be years.

You really think a company would want to hire someone who works for a year or two only to leave to create their own company? And continue that cycle over and over again... You will end up in the same boat every time you leave.

Personally, I think you should have more faith in yourself to rebuild without investors.

Yes, my answer would be a no. :) I don't think marketable job skills and being an entrepreneur are "compatible" goals.
 

TheThinker

Sparrow
It's true that I was rocked pretty hard and lost a bit of confidence from my last venture. I appreciate your comment saying that I should have more faith in myself. It's true. I can say with certainty that even with some ego, my lack of confidence has been a major stumbling block at times. I've been told this by a few very perceptive people.

While I knew I would never be able to commit fully in any corporate stint, I don't regret the last four months. I realize it was just a gig, but I was working independently and polishing my social skills by having to interact with a number of people in a corporate environment and I enjoyed the dynamic even though I would guess very few companies have this kind of culture. Plus I was making $400-$600 a day. It wasn't too piddly. Could it last - maybe not. I was working tiring days and that's why they could pay me decent but there was room to grow it seemed.

In terms of moving it to another level, yes you're correct that it's not possbile to compete in terms of apples-to-apples experience in fields you aren't building knowledge in with your endeavor. For example, I have zero chance of making it in IB right now. Like you said, I made my decision a long time ago but I could likely have a side gig every year with a firm like my current one just based on trust and experience. I could likely handle their due diligence, bidding, listings, renovations, and probably even financial modeling and pull in 90K remotely. The questions is, if I'm successful with my own venture, would it even be worth my time. What opportunity cost am I willing to give up in terms of time to work for someone else instead of myself?
 

Peregrine

Pelican
Gold Member
I agree with wwt in saying that you should keep hustling. You've done it once, you can do it again. Take contract gigs insofar as it helps you avoid waiting in line at soup kitchens.

(I also agree with wwt in saying that your ship has sailed on a corporate career. Let that motivate you to hunt your own dinner.)

Edit: This thread is loaded with good posts - thanks for your time and insights.
 

RichieP

Pelican
You were doing 7 figures revenue per year, and now you had to get a job??!

One would think you must have some serious, serious internet marketing and system-building chops to achieve $1mm/year revenue. Doesn't that translate into setting up another $3-10k a month business with no trouble? Hell, just throw up a website, decent copy and start offering internet marketing services (PPC/SEO/Conversion). Or web dev. Get a couple of clients and outsource the work, make 60%+ margin. In 1-2 months you'd be at a "covering bases" income at least.

It would be tough to learn for a complete newbie but surely you could do it in your sleep? If you hit $1 million in revenue through your online business... I would think something like that would be a piece of cake for you.

Just an observation, but taking a job feels like too much of a step backwards. Do you think it's perhaps more about loss of confidence, and the trauma of such a big loss, than anything else (just a thought)?

In terms of marketable skills...Business is THE skillset to have dude. Everything else is just a specialist subset that doesn't carry nearly as much reward as being the conductor who orchestrates the whole operation. Maybe you do need to get a job to replenish funds for a few months after your loss... but IMO you should be getting back out there and using that killer skillset again to start raking it in, this time wiser for the lessons learned.

There's no way you just "got lucky" taking a biz to 7 figures. You do that once you can have massive success again for sure. Just learn from your mistakes... build your next business with risk managed properly (i.e. once it takes off, taking time to let it plateau and "cash out" for a while, building up your personal savings before reinvesting profits, making it defensible, building it "to sell", etc.)

Your issue is not "building marketable skills in case my business fails"... it's learning proper risk management, diversification, etc. Being able to walk away with $xx,xxx-$x,xxx,xxx in personal assets/savings because you cashed out sensibly along the way.
 
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