STEM is not worth it

[flanders]

I won't comment on whether you should have a STEM career. If it is what you want you will know.

However, I would like to point out that this is the golden age for learning STEM. When I started college, I had a slide ruler, and the next year got a calculator. The education now is incredible. You can find an answer for any technical question in minutes on the Internet with lucid explanations. Also, you can use Wikipedia to find instantly what any term means. When I was a student, I use to write down all the unknown terms and then at the end of the week go to the library, and lay out a dozen encyclopedias to find the terms. Obviously, the Internet speeds up your education by orders of magnitude.

You can also cheaply buy your own stuff to do your own experimentation. Like in electronics you have the whole Arduino environment. In Chemistry, you can download free software to see molecules in three dimension. There is also a lot of lecture material available. When Coursera was still free, I took several dozen courses, and they were all taught by top instructors in the best universities.

With the resources available today, you should be able to develop much quicker than students just a few decades ago.

For any STEM students reading this, this is very good advice for increasing the rate at which you will study and retain information.

Maybe slightly outdated but framing unknowns as questions, thinking about it awhile, and then looking it up is still a good habit to have, maybe better than looking stuff up immediately and then forgetting it right away since the 'significance' is gone.

I went up a whole letter grade on exams while studying about the same number of hours by doing something similar. The "split notebook" question method. The best part is that you already know what you don't know, so you study that instead of rehashing material you could have otherwise ignored. It saves time and you won't go into an exam feeling overconfident despite being (in reality) completely unprepared.

Edit: Very good thread.

 

[PixelFree]

Worth mentioning - you will succeed in STEM if you have a natural interest and flair for it.

The people I see floundering are those who are just in it for the money.

Having said that, in the IT world, there are many roles where a generic smart person could do well and earn a good rate.

 

[BadBoyGamer]

Science and technology is obviously a good area to get into.

If you are smart enough you can start own business and work for yourself. No reason to be yet another drone within corporate culture.

Also, technically you do not need "education". Everyone (assuming enough intellect) can learn math, physics and computer skills. All you need is internet or a library.

I learned to be programmer at a time most companies still used typewriters.

 

[whatday]

Team STEM checking in.

My liberal arts degree did almost nothing for me. My STEM knowledge, on the other hand, opened many, many doors, and continues to affect my life positively.

STEM for the win!

 

[whatday]

I've made millions, slain pussy and travelled the world with Stem career.

I'm no social retard... But you do have a point about lack of extraverted social skills, and zero pussy in the workplace.

Work for max cash for minimum work, and get your pussy after hours, or when you retire mid forties.

Pretty much.

If you get started in STEM in your teens or very early 20's, retiring in your mid 40's is totally doable. And by retiring I mean getting to a point where you no longer have to work and can focus your time on doing whatever it is you enjoy, be it travel, working on tech/science that's interesting to you, spending more time with loved ones, etc.

 

[The Stronger Sex]

STEM means bucks. If your social skills are poor you choice of career won't make a difference. I'm not a STEM graduate, but if I had a son I would advise him to give it a serious thought.

 

[Kid Twist]

I'm also super interested in the process of learning, and I can tell you that in medicine among other fields, the generational complaints of students "wanting to be spoonfed" or using different methods (videos, lectures, etc. to distill teaching points) is a huge generational difference that I recall as a youth all the way into professional environments I'm now in. I defend the younger generation in this regard --- a lot of the older guys have a tremendously annoying proclivity to "just do what we did" and don't realize how completely inefficient teaching and learning can be. I would argue that training (non-dexterity specialties) from a book point of view in medicine is at least 2 years longer than it has to be, in nearly ever specialty. For example, 1 of those years (med school being 4) in medical school could be done away with immediately.

The point of a teacher is that you have a mastery so that you can distill what the big picture is fairly easily, make sure the framework of fundamentals is recognized and understood, then mastery comes later with filling in of a LOT of details. Notice that the fundamental outline would still allow a person to do a job to a reasonable aptitude. The mastery is incorporating the details and asking questions regarding how anything really changes if different roads are taken or methods applied. That involves both creativity and efficiency. So much of modern life is a waste of time on details that don't matter. Men are particularly good at understanding that most details don't really matter, they are a focus that wastes much time and energy, re: the big picture.

 

[duedue]

I've made millions, slain pussy and travelled the world with Stem career.

I'm no social retard... But you do have a point about lack of extraverted social skills, and zero pussy in the workplace.

Work for max cash for minimum work, and get your pussy after hours, or when you retire mid forties.

What is your career in?

I work in the STEM myself and it has definitely given my an advantage however what I don't like about it is that it's not so easy to be entrepreneurial with your STEM skills. I've also always worked in the academia and would like to switch to corporates (or better start my own business) to have more options and a better salary.

 

[rockoman]

Every man has to have a mission in life. Deep inside we recognize this mission when we see it. If your mission is in engineering or programming or medicine or wherever, then that's where it is and that's what you have to do to fulfill yourself.

From Heartiste's 'Sixteen Commandments of Poon'

------------------------

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.
------------------

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

 

[Genghis Khan]

Pretty much M is the only sure bet in the modern economy for the average guy. I know loads of unemployed/underemployed in STE and pretty much every other field. Unemployed doctor? Never met one.

Regardless, things are tough all round and a bachelors in most respected fields isn't a sure bet these days

Just a minor nitpicking, but M doesn't stand for Medicine, it stands for Math. Also neither are suited for the average guy.

 

[MANic]

^^Apologies, thanks for the correction.

 

[mr-ed209]

I think with STEM you have to be very careful to ensure that there are some real prospects out there once you graduate in your field. Non specific degrees have reduced in value hugely over the last 20 years and for folks coming out with say, a mathematics degree, it can feel like a huge amount of time and youth wasted when employers aren't bending to shake your hand on graduation like you were promised in school. It's a huge gamble to take on a 'hard' STEM degree just for the hope that it will land you on a grad scheme at a later date.


Most science degrees aren't worth shit either. Any 'bio' degree usually enables you to a life of PHD work, comission sales, or pipetting samples in a laboratory for little more than minimum wage. I know plenty of guys with physics degrees also who basically had to start over after graduation.

Engineering degrees tend to be best because they're generally formed around actual industry practices; with many courses providing experience in work placements and basically training for the job you're going to be doing.

Chemical Engineering - yes
Petroleum Engineering - yes
Computer Science - yes
Medicine - yes
Dentistry - yes

Maybe a few others that I can't think of. But for pretty much all else, you're being put through the ringer, likely surrounded by nerdy guys and zero girls. I don't think it's necessarily because STEM degrees are so 'hard' that people drop out - it's because they can be quite miserable and people realise there is likely to be zero pay off.

Personally if I could advise folk I would say not to go to generic university, unless you can attend somewhere so prestigious that it guarantees grad interviews.The few guys I knew who went for employer paid training at 16 are doing bits now. University paid for and basically 6 years ahead of graduates trying to get into their workplace.

 

[RatInTheWoods]

What is your career in?

I work in the STEM myself and it has definitely given my an advantage however what I don't like about it is that it's not so easy to be entrepreneurial with your STEM skills. I've also always worked in the academia and would like to switch to corporates (or better start my own business) to have more options and a better salary.

Mining/oil/gas.

Best way to go entrepreneurial and escape the crushing hours is to go consultant and form your own company.

You can then set your projects, income and working conditions - if you are good enough.

When on a project, you just can not escape the long hours, difficult work and usually in remote shitty locations... but you get paid the big coin for it, and it makes you tougher and normal life is easy and relaxed after a hard swing.

 

[teddy bear]

I think with STEM you have to be very careful to ensure that there are some real prospects out there once you graduate in your field. Non specific degrees have reduced in value hugely over the last 20 years

Very true. I am kind of in a very similar spot right now and I have quickly learned first-hand how crueless getting a prospective job in a life sciences / pharma industry is. That said, I eventually managed to get one after +- 100 applications. I turned it down in the end in order to continue with doing masters, but life would surely be much easier with a more specific Bio degree.

Still, in the midst of useless degrees having one in STEM is surely a top-pick anyway as it has lots of uses. But you can't hope the job will fall right in your hand after graduation if you didn't get acquire necessary skillset during college that will right away allow you to perform in your job. You have to do something, that will let you stand out in the crowd yourself if you even want to be considered.

And yeah, the typical laboratory work is heavily underpaid. If you don't have PhD and you plan on reaching a financially comfortable situation, well, better to use your degree in some other field; requalify, and learn a new skillset with your STEM degree acting as a supportive element to your career.

That's how I see it, at least for now. We will see in two years, I guess.

And well, that applies mostly for young guys I believe, but our perspective changes very quickly. Just 6 months ago I still thought landing an E/L job in relevant industry is much easier task than it actually is. Two years ago I didn't even think of finding a job and was doing shitty jobs just for some extra money with much less worry, and 3.5 years ago -- so right before starting University, I didn't give a fuck where to go and my life relvolved around hitting gym, going out and playing video games with my high school friends. Rapid change in life goals and overall perspective.

That applies to most people I guess. Hardly anyone thinks through their career option, what they would be good at and what kind of life they want to live when they are not even in their 20s. I would probably study a bit more and try my chances in Medicine or at least something much more specific if I were to go back in time.

Anyway, I believe it's mostly YOU -- not the degree, that matters the most. Even if you tend to make a shitty choice, you can still think of something to get you closer to the life you want to live. Thing is (another observation I have made), most people are not willing to put in the extra work and are fine with settling for a soul-draining middle-wage corporate career with the hopes of getting promoted by the time they are 40s to have a more luxury, once a year two weeks vacations :tard: