Stock Market 2016

thisisright

 
Banned
We might have the question the order way around: Why is the price of oil so high? It costs $15 to extract oil from Saudi Arabia and the Emirates. Maybe $20 is a fair price and we don't need these rich middle-east guys.

I think people who are long on oil should be careful with this. The price of oil was not subject to demand/supply in the last decade. If it was, then the price would be $15 + whatever small profit you could survive on.

We might have been in a big bubble and the prices might never get back to the levels where they were...
 

OrthodoxExpatCol

Kingfisher
SunW said:
Five years ago the expectations were hyperinflation and everyone rushed into commodities, especially precious metals, some of whom were borrowing with 10+ leverage. Five years later, those people are getting hammered. It simply doesn't matter what's next for these people; they are eating their expectations today from five years ago.

This is the problem with the industry as a whole. Expectations and investment strategies are planned based [in most cases] on a 12-month outlook. When something goes wrong, like their expectations not panning out, or inability to pay down debt, everything goes haywire.
 

Peregrine

Pelican
Gold Member

TheFinalEpic

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
Peregrine said:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/iran-sanctions-middle-east-stock-102835505.html

Prospect of the Islamic Republic pumping an additional 500,000 barrels a day sends stock markets in Dubai and Saudi Arabia into tailspin
Stock markets across the Middle East collapsed as the lifting of economic sanctions against Iran threatened to unleash a fresh wave of oil onto global markets that are already drowning in excess supply.

Oil could easily hit $15 a barrel. Anyone with a margin account should look into shorting futures into March, and if you're not too risk happy, place call options on some of the larger oil companies.
 

SunW

Woodpecker
Damn, futures show Brent crude has hit $27. LOL big time. This is going to get very painful for some if it remains for even a few months.
 

thoughtgypsy

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I'm expecting oil to go lower still. When recessions hit, there is less demand for finished goods, so factories remain idle and the demand for energy drops. I don't know how much lower it can go at this point, though.

The shale oil producers were initially funded when oil was $100/barrel, but are now deeply in the red. They've been increasing the productivity per rig and focusing on the most productive wells, but it's still a losing battle at these prices. Many are holding emergency funding drives at exorbitant interest rates to keep the game going. They're highly levered and it's only a matter of time before some declare bankruptcy.

That will take a lot of supply off the market at a time when global population is still rising, and many developing nations are starting to industrialize. Sure, Iran may bring more capacity, but the demand for oil is worldwide and all of the low hanging fruit has already been plucked. No other energy source can compete with the energy density, ease of use, and portability of oil. It also doubles as raw materials for the petrochemical and plastic industries.

It will go lower for months to come, but I still think there's a much larger potential upside than downside on this trade. It's one dip I'll be buying.
 

OrthodoxExpatCol

Kingfisher
TheFinalEpic said:
Peregrine said:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/iran-sanctions-middle-east-stock-102835505.html

Prospect of the Islamic Republic pumping an additional 500,000 barrels a day sends stock markets in Dubai and Saudi Arabia into tailspin
Stock markets across the Middle East collapsed as the lifting of economic sanctions against Iran threatened to unleash a fresh wave of oil onto global markets that are already drowning in excess supply.

Oil could easily hit $15 a barrel. Anyone with a margin account should look into shorting futures into March, and if you're not too risk happy, place call options on some of the larger oil companies.

Shawn Driscoll, one of the Oil 'gurus' who predicted that that oil would slide to where it's at now, says a price in the mid-teens isn't out of the question. With Iran's additional supply, and worsening expectations, it's only going to get worse in the near future.
 

TheFinalEpic

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
Canadian oil producers are profitable at around $30 a barrel, Saudis can pump all the way to around $10.50 and still be profitable. OPEC is still pumping as if oil was much higher. This can only get worse. Awesome time if you know what you're doing however.
 

OrthodoxExpatCol

Kingfisher
TheFinalEpic said:
Canadian oil producers are profitable at around $30 a barrel, Saudis can pump all the way to around $10.50 and still be profitable. OPEC is still pumping as if oil was much higher. This can only get worse. Awesome time if you know what you're doing however.

It's not even beneficial for Saudi Arabia at these prices. The long-term economic impact of these prices is negative for them. That's why most Economists thought they'd stop when the price was higher - it just didn't make sense.

But Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia, so there's that. They often do things that don't make sense :dodgy:
 

SunW

Woodpecker
20160117_oilgold.jpg


Some of those peaks don't have a corresponding crisis, but this spike is enormous when considering the 30 year history. I don't see how this massive spike above 35 means anything other than something big is about to happen. Since 1983, the gold to oil ratio has never risen above 35 until now.

See this for a history: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=F000000__3&f=A (in 1970, when gold was $35 an ounce, oil was $3.18 a barrel, meaning that the gold to oil ratio was 11).
 

Dallas Winston

Ostrich
Gold Member
robreke 2016 weekly market update # 2.


The indicators I follow are still strongly on a sell signal. Things look ugly at least short term. There is typical market correction behavior today; that is the market starts up strong in the morning, ends barely up on a whimper.

Some of this will kind of be a recap a few things from last week as conditions are persisting:

Looking at nasdaq composite - The picture of distribution ( market having bigger higher volume down days ) has not changed much. There are lots of distribution days piling up. Even if we get some accumulation on the up moves, it’s met with immediate distribution.

Ideally, if we're beginning a credible rally, you'd want to see accumulation with light to no distribution for at least the first 1 to 2 weeks. we’re seeing the opposite now. That is, distribution and weak to no accumulation.

My sell signal has been effective since december 10th.

We’re down 1600 points on the Dow since then.

The Russell 2000 ( small cap stocks ) is underperforming worse than large caps. There is a classic 'Head and shoulders' top where it broke below it’s “neckline” Not a good technical sign. The head and shoulders is a bearish chart pattern:

11-RUT.jpg


The value Line Geometric Index, which is a broad based index containing many stocks from mid cap to large cap, is in a full fledged bear market. It's down over 25%

Only 15% of stocks on the nasdaq are above their 200 DMA now. This is representative of a good wash out so far, but by no means indicative of the bottom.

I mentioned this last week, but anytime the ECRI weekly leading index, has gotten below -5 it has portended a recession. You can see how far below it pierced during 08/09:

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/charts/indicators/ECRI-WLI-YoY-since-2000.gif


^ The key now for this index is watching the recent lows which occurred twice in 2015 ( approximately -2.5) As long as the indicator holds above this level, it appears the possibility of a severe recession is limited.

If, however, it pierces that 2015 low or worse yet, the -5 red line, a recession and bear market are quite likely.

In summary:

* A market bounce is quite imminent
* Volatility likely to rise
* Fed tightening
* Poor stock setups/no stock set ups.
* Cash is king!

For those that want to trade individual stocks ( or like doing options ) I think the key to good trading is to operate in a vacuum and go to the beat of your own drummer. Find a trading system that works for you that you're comfortable with and ignore what everyone else is doing or how much more money they’re marking than you at any given time. That will get you distracted, doubting your system that has worked for you and you'll start trying to "tweak" things. At that point, what usually happens is the wrong picks become bigger losers and the account value starts to suffer.

At this point, I'm expecting a shorter lived sharp decline that causes some fear but not a full fledged bear market nor a catastrophe like 2008. That said, things can change if some of the indicators I've alluded to go sideways.

The Nasdaq is coming to a support area so we’re due for a bounce. Recent low a few months ago is 4294. Look for potential bounce here.

At the same time, who’s to say these support levels will hold?

Option puts can often be a good indicator of sentiment when reaching a bottom. The current put numbers do not seem to indicate a bottom. There is an indication in this indicator that we’re seeing some bearishness ( good contrarian indicator) however.

As mentioned last week, the Conditions for a major bear market are:

Extreme deflation
Rising inflation
Inverted yield curve - fed tightening
Overvaluation - very high PE ratio SP

1 or all of these have existed in major bear markets.

We don’t have extreme deflation but we are starting to see deflating of the economy. Also,there is no inverted yield curve, however, with the QE manipulation, who's to say interest rates are "real" right now.

Another indicator: When Industrial Production gets below -1 historically, it has been the trigger point for market tops/bear markets. We’ve tripped that in the last reports for the first time in a very long time. I don't have a chart for that one but it can be googled.

This indicator hasn’t gotten a market correction wrong since 1919. At this point it appears the market is discounting the possibility of a recession.

Time will, of course, tell. For now I prefer to be happy with cash and wait for the washout to occur, new constructive stock patterns to emerge and new leaders to eventually begin their advance once the next rally is in place.
 

Brodiaga

Ostrich
Gold Member
For guys in the accumulation phase who don't intend to start withdrawing their investments at least in the next few years (most of us), a significant market drop is a good thing. It's a buying opportunity because stocks are on sale.

Consider two market scenarios for the next 10 years from now on. Let's assume you invest in a low cost mutual fund or etf which tracks the S&P500, such as VFIAX from Vanguard, and dollar cost average $1000 into this fund every month over 10 years. You don't plan to start withdrawing money at least 10 years from now.

Scenario 1. S&P500 constantly grows at 4% per year. Small fluctuations, but no significant drops. At this rate, it goes up 42% in 10 years.

Scenario 2. Over the course of 10 years, S&P500 drops 50%, then bounces back, then drops another 30%, then bounces back again. By year 10, it is at the same level as in Scenario 1: +42% above the current value.

Which one would you prefer? Assuming other things being equal, I would prefer Scenario 2, because the same 1K/month will buy more shares when the index goes down. In the end, you'll end up with more shares/units of the fund you're consistently investing in and therefore a higher net worth as long as you don't freak out, sell low or try to time the market, but instead just keep dollar cost averaging consistently.

Granted, there is no guarantee that the index will be much higher in 10 years or even that it won't be below its current level. Also, significant drops in stock prices may be caused by or occur around the same time as recessions. Recessions tend to cause many people to lose jobs and not be able to invest consistently. However, the purpose of this illustration is to show the math behind long term investment. Also, people are more flexible than mathematical models or excel spreadsheets. For example, if there is another market drop 10 years from now, an intelligent investor will know that it's not a good time to retire and start drawing down his savings. He will just keep hustling until the market goes back up again, let's say another couple of years, and then retire and adjust his asset allocation to be more conservative and less dependent on market swings.

I have not sold any of my investments and not planning to do so in the near future even if the market drops by 50%.
 

Onto

Ostrich
Gold Member
If SPX 1850 breaks, and it seems likely at this point, the next stop is around 1780. Maybe there we'll get the big bounce to fill those two weekly gaps still dangling above in the upper 2000's

Even if we fill those gaps above, this baby is going down to 1600 eventually and if it keeps crashing through the 1500's then it's lights out, on the way to 500 or whatever.

I wish I had the extra cash to short this shit, but I'm going to wait instead for 1600 to try out the long side. By then, I should have enough money to speculate with.
 

samsamsam

Peacock
Gold Member
Good stuff guys. I hope you guys share once you feel it might be time to get back in. Obviously, you are not responsible if anyone chooses to act on it but I might go into some mutual funds or something once the market stabilizes. Whenever that may happen. Thanks.
 

OrthodoxExpatCol

Kingfisher
samsamsam said:
Good stuff guys. I hope you guys share once you feel it might be time to get back in. Obviously, you are not responsible if anyone chooses to act on it but I might go into some mutual funds or something once the market stabilizes. Whenever that may happen. Thanks.

Ugh, mutual funds.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
So I went balls deep today gents,

I shorted the market hard core. Hit up all the major indices (large, mid, small), got in on DWTI (holy crap that bugger ran), and a few other inverse etfs.

Going to see how all this plays out. Hopefully my gamble will pay off!
 

Onto

Ostrich
Gold Member
^Nice work! I couldn't help myself either. Went short via TZA for a nice profit this morning. Currently in cash and waiting for a bounce to reload on shorts

Edit: At this point if the low of day holds and we close above 1837 I'll be waiting for the 1950-2000 area to short again
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Onto said:
^Nice work! I couldn't help myself either. Went short via TZA for a nice profit this morning. Currently in cash and waiting for a bounce to reload on shorts

Edit: At this point if the low of day holds and we close above 1837 I'll be waiting for the 1950-2000 area to short again

Here's what I'm all in at the moment:

Labd, edz, ery, midz, spxs, tza, tecs, dwti

The only loser I have right now is LABD the biotech inverse etf. Stupid thing did a complete 6+ to -6 percent swap in a single day. I've never seen that before. Everything else is healthy in the green however.

Hoping that bastard flips. I doubt biotechs will be able to weather a general market downturn.
 
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