Struggling With Denominations

[Luna Novem]

I feel torn and kind of, well, homeless.

Quick background: Was raised Catholic. (Mom was, too; Dad was Dutch Reformed). During childhood I had no love for Mass; I found it boring and only liked the donuts, lol.
Felt a draw toward the spiritual, always; this kind of culminated in late adolescence when I realized I was looking for worship that was more passionate. I ended up at a Pentecostal church for over a decade. While I never spoke in tongues or believed in it, I did deeply love a worship style that was super emotional (or "on fire" as Pentecostals say).
Lost faith completely for a time in my mid-30s after several years of deep doubt and unanswered questions.
Realized quite quickly (six months or so) that atheism held no less doubts than faith did. Had zero desire to return to my Pentecostal church, though (my loss of faith had been very public; also, I was changing as a person, to realize that I found the emotional worship style empty). I decided to return to Mass. I absolutely loved it. It wasn't easy, as I went alone (husband is deeply Protestant), but I went. The parish I was attending was very conservative. Not Latin; but very old-school.
Moved 300 miles away. This brought me to a strongly Protestant small town environment. There is one Catholic church, but it is modern. I could drive 30-40 minutes and find other parishes, but it is challenging, esp. in the winter, as I have strong phobias of snow driving). I began attending a Protestant church w/my family; we went for two years or so and enjoyed it.
Then... covid. The little church we'd been attending is basically gone. Still physically there, but went through such a transition that it's not the same. We have not found a new one.
I still feel very much drawn to Mass but have only gone once, I think, since covid. I have zero desire whatsoever to wear masks at Mass and I am deeply, deeply concerned at the typical Catholic stance on the vaccine. The only churches who seem to be pro-freedom are the little independent Protestant ones. But when I pray, I pray like a Catholic. And I adore the quiet, holy reverence of Mass. At 42 years old, that is what I seek. As an introvert, I cringe at the evangelical tendency to "pounce" on the newbie and draw them into the social whirl.
I guess I just wish I could have the best of both worlds: the beauty of Mass with the conservative Protestant redpilling on covid. Also, I don't relish the idea of saying that I am Catholic in this super-duper Protestant environment. Maybe that's shallow, idk. I also realize I'm rambling. I'll stop now.

 

[TexasJenn]

I dabbled in various Protestant denominations from childhood and beyond, settled into non-denominational ("new thought") a few years ago, eventually found that lacking, kept thinking throughout the pandemic about finding a Christian church. I didn't feel the Protestant ones were going to cut it for me, but I was daunted about going to an Orthodox church by myself for the first time. Then I started talking to an Orthodox man online recently, and after some discussion, decided to go for the first time this weekend. I'm American and will go to an Orthodox Church in America parish.

I've been searching far and wide for my whole life. I'm very new to this and have a lot to learn. But Orthodox Christianity is looking very promising so far.

 

[Luna Novem]

I dabbled in various Protestant denominations from childhood and beyond, settled into non-denominational ("new thought") a few years ago, eventually found that lacking, kept thinking throughout the pandemic about finding a Christian church. I didn't feel the Protestant ones were going to cut it for me, but I was daunted about going to an Orthodox church by myself for the first time. Then I started talking to an Orthodox man online recently, and after some discussion, decided to go for the first time this weekend. I'm American and will go to an Orthodox Church in America parish.

I've been searching far and wide for my whole life. I'm very new to this and have a lot to learn. But Orthodox Christianity is looking very promising so far.

That's neat. I've definitely considered Orthodoxy. I guess I'm intimidated by how foreign it all is. Old dog, new tricks, and all that. "A lot to learn", like you mention above.
Please let me know how your time this weekend goes.

 

[Ah_Tibor]

It's okay to have doubts about anything in life. It means you're realistic and growing. Often very talented people think their work is terrible.

I remember something like (I don't know where the exact quote is from, I think it's Dostoevsky) church and religion is a synthetic institution to protect a metaphysical reality, the same way marriage protects a biological reality. It's there to guide us, answer questions, but I think that's why it often feels like we're getting further away from God the more we focus on the thing itself.

My old priest once complained that many people (he was referring specifically to Orthodox in this case, but I think it can apply to anyone) never grow out of their childhood perception of God because their only religious instruction occurs in childhood. I thought about this one day as when we're children, we perceive adulthood and life a certain way: things just happen. Parents go to work, meals appear, people talk in another room, basically: life goes on. When you're an adult, you realize that you have to do certain things to make things happen.

I think we have to do the hard things spiritually in that regard. "Work" goes into marriage and family, and we have to take the signs from God to put work into our souls and open our minds and hearts every day.

I'm sorry if this is rambley and doesn't make sense. I like donuts, too.

 

[Luna Novem]

It's okay to have doubts about anything in life. It means you're realistic and growing. Often very talented people think their work is terrible.

I remember something like (I don't know where the exact quote is from, I think it's Dostoevsky) church and religion is a synthetic institution to protect a metaphysical reality, the same way marriage protects a biological reality. It's there to guide us, answer questions, but I think that's why it often feels like we're getting further away from God the more we focus on the thing itself.

My old priest once complained that many people (he was referring specifically to Orthodox in this case, but I think it can apply to anyone) never grow out of their childhood perception of God because their only religious instruction occurs in childhood. I thought about this one day as when we're children, we perceive adulthood and life a certain way: things just happen. Parents go to work, meals appear, people talk in another room, basically: life goes on. When you're an adult, you realize that you have to do certain things to make things happen.

I think we have to do the hard things spiritually in that regard. "Work" goes into marriage and family, and we have to take the signs from God to put work into our souls and open our minds and hearts every day.

I'm sorry if this is rambley and doesn't make sense. I like donuts, too.

Not rambly at all and actually makes total sense. It reminds me a bit of some of what C.S. Lewis was trying to get across in "Mere Christianity".

And, as for becoming an adult and realizing that hard work goes in behind the scenes... YES. That really speaks to me, esp. today. I'm craving childhood at the moment. Today is my birthday; and it's the first birthday I have had since my dad's death 2 1/2 weeks ago. What I wouldn't give (hypothetically, but still strongly) to be a kid again right now.

I have a history (as you read above) of convoluted struggling when it comes to metaphysical things, but it's quite possible that those thoughts and feelings are increased at the moment.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Ah_Tibor]

 

[messaggera]

Happy Birthday Luna!
1 John 3:1

 

[TexasJenn]

Happy birthday, @Luna Novem !

My old priest once complained that many people (he was referring specifically to Orthodox in this case, but I think it can apply to anyone) never grow out of their childhood perception of God because their only religious instruction occurs in childhood.

I'm discovering this great 2020 album by Sufjan Stevens called The Ascension. He's been Christian for a long time, and I just read he's Orthodox.

It definitely suggests that it's necessary for many of us to completely evolve beyond our old, outdated idea of who God is, to elevate to a higher level of being as Godly as we can.

If interested, my favorite tracks so far are The Ascension, America, and Run Away with Me.

 

[Luna Novem]

Happy Birthday Luna!
1 John 3:1

Thank you. Trying to make the best of it!

 

[Luna Novem]

Happy birthday, @Luna Novem !

I'm discovering this great 2020 album by Sufjan Stevens called The Ascension. He's been Christian for a long time, and I just read he's Orthodox.

It definitely suggests that it's necessary for many of us to completely evolve beyond our old, outdated idea of who God is, to elevate to a higher level of being as Godly as we can.

If interested, my favorite tracks so far are The Ascension, America, and Run Away with Me.

Thanks

And I will definitely check that out.

 

[Starlight]

I can definitely understand what you’re feeling. My husband and I have decided to officially leave my Lutheran church after Christmas. I do still have a personal obligation to the handbell choir until summer though, which I think is fair. But now we’re kind of like, “Now what? Where do we go?” The main reason we’re leaving is because of the COVID stuff and the absolute lack of respect to the Eucharist because of “safety protocols.” I think this shows an incredible amount of unbelieving that the Eucharist is the Real Body and Blood of Christ. Also, the Pastor doesn’t come across as someone a person might want to do a confession with (we have optional private confession at my church). There have been times where I have wanted to confess something… but not to him… if that makes sense.

Anyway, we feel like we have two good choices: one is a small pre-Vatican II church and the other is an Antiochian Orthodox Church. My husband is a natural ascetic which is why he will not agree to attend his home Greek Orthodox Church as he feels like that church is hypocritical (not saying all GO but this parish in particular. The priest drives an $80k Cadillac to church… and during the Great Recession members were scolded for not keeping their stewardship promises for various church projects… like $100k frescos imported from Greece…).

I’ve been trying to keep up with both potential churches online. Both priests seem to take their faith and position very seriously, which I appreciate. The pre-Vatican church has almost no online presence which I think is an important signifier. The Antiochian church has some online presence like live streamed services which I have watched regularly and seem like a usual Orthodox service.

I don’t know how any of this might help lol… I just wanted to share that I’m in a similar boat. I want a serious church with a serious Priest and congregation.

(Note: Be careful about churches saying they have “Latin Mass.” I went to a supposed “Latin Mass” Catholic Church during high school and it was literally just the Novus Ordo but in Latin… so not The Latin Mass. An easy tell is if the alter faces the congregation. If it does, it cannot be a true Latin Mass, from my understanding.)

Anyway, I hope you find a good church soon and also happy birthday !

 

[soli.deo.gloria]

Today is my birthday; and it's the first birthday I have had since my dad's death 2 1/2 weeks ago. What I wouldn't give (hypothetically, but still strongly) to be a kid again right now.

Happy birthday Luna!! God bless you and your dad.

 

[IconWriter]

One thing I love about the Orthodox Church is the ancient, not foreign, but ancient, spiritual "feel" of its roots. Knowing that if I were to find the earliest, oldest churches in the Holy Lands, I'd find the same liturgy/worship/beliefs as we do here and now. Our tradition says that Christ's brother James the Just, wrote the original liturgy from which we model ours. I can't help but urge anyone who is "seeking" to visit an Orthodox church, just go there in peace and observe, listen, breathe in the incense, and use all of your senses to worship. Our learning never ends; our growing more and more into the Lord's likeness never ends.

This quote comes to mind, "The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn’t non-denominational – it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago."

 

[ItalianStallion9]

One struggle has been looking for a good church, especially in the covid world. Baptized in 2018 and church searching, I quickly filtered out any mainline Prot churches (Episcopal, methodist) as they push lgbt. I was bouncing between a small prot church and an Orthodox Church (OCA branch). I'll admit that the Orthodox culture is different than the western slant, so totally with you there.

Once covid hit, most churches were folding to all the rules. The Orthodox one was following rules heavily (which was fine for a while in theory), but the small Prot church was freedom the whole way. During 2020 they were having indoor Thanksgiving/Christmas parties with 0 masks. Yes the theology is a bit charismatic and there's less tradition, but it was like covid never existed. I had a choice between the Orthodox church that was covid compliant or the Prot church with some beliefs I wasn't sure about. Sure in utopia there's a pro-freedom church with perfect theology and great traditions. I can't speak to Roman Catholic churches, but they slowly seem to be very compliant to all the rules.

Another factor is that it's amazing how many informed Christians there are in church bodies. Church has alot of fellowship, and it's up to us to stay connected. The church my parents have been attending is semi-covid compliant, but they have a group of 2 family friends that are redpilled and very pro freedom. Meet some like-minded believers and remain friends with them (guaranteed there's at least a few freedom Catholics attending your mass).

Many believers are getting spiritually fed online now too, especially as the world is changing, so subscribe to your favorite priests or pastors.

The truth is that the world will continue to change, and might be bad for Christians. Covid rules, hate speech laws, and government mandates may continue to water down and suppress churches. The local California Episcopal churches are now asking for vaccines to attend service and the methodist church is promoting lgbt pride month.

My advice is to look to God and decide what's more important to you: the tradition aspect of the (covid-leaning) masses or finding another church that's more pro-freedom. I went to google maps and searched for churches - got a list of all the churches (Catholic, Prot, Orthodox) and checked them out (which is mostly how I started attending the small freedom church).

Always remember to pray, as God hears us whether we're at home or at church. God bless.

 

[Jessie]

See if you can find a reformed Protestant church that stayed open during the pandemic. They won’t have mass, but many recite the creeds. My family is required to move a lot, and when we can’t find a good church with our exact beliefs, we pick one where the people are most earnestly trying to follow Christ. As a result, we have learned a lot about what we can tolerate doctrinally, and how important it is to balance orthodoxy and orthopraxy. We won’t tolerate a cowardly church that misuses scripture and worships the state over our Lord.

 

[IconWriter]

One struggle has been looking for a good church, especially in the covid world. Baptized in 2018 and church searching, I quickly filtered out any mainline Prot churches (Episcopal, methodist) as they push lgbt. I was bouncing between a small prot church and an Orthodox Church (OCA branch). I'll admit that the Orthodox culture is different than the western slant, so totally with you there.

Once covid hit, most churches were folding to all the rules. The Orthodox one was following rules heavily (which was fine for a while in theory), but the small Prot church was freedom the whole way. During 2020 they were having indoor Thanksgiving/Christmas parties with 0 masks. Yes the theology is a bit charismatic and there's less tradition, but it was like covid never existed. I had a choice between the Orthodox church that was covid compliant or the Prot church with some beliefs I wasn't sure about. Sure in utopia there's a pro-freedom church with perfect theology and great traditions. I can't speak to Roman Catholic churches, but they slowly seem to be very compliant to all the rules.

Another factor is that it's amazing how many informed Christians there are in church bodies. Church has alot of fellowship, and it's up to us to stay connected. The church my parents have been attending is semi-covid compliant, but they have a group of 2 family friends that are redpilled and very pro freedom. Meet some like-minded believers and remain friends with them (guaranteed there's at least a few freedom Catholics attending your mass).

Many believers are getting spiritually fed online now too, especially as the world is changing, so subscribe to your favorite priests or pastors.

The truth is that the world will continue to change, and might be bad for Christians. Covid rules, hate speech laws, and government mandates may continue to water down and suppress churches. The local California Episcopal churches are now asking for vaccines to attend service and the methodist church is promoting lgbt pride month.

My advice is to look to God and decide what's more important to you: the tradition aspect of the (covid-leaning) masses or finding another church that's more pro-freedom. I went to google maps and searched for churches - got a list of all the churches (Catholic, Prot, Orthodox) and checked them out (which is mostly how I started attending the small freedom church).

Always remember to pray, as God hears us whether we're at home or at church. God bless.

Sorry, but I must speak out: Our Orthodox church did not and does not take part in all of that, including imposing masking, etc. except for the first 2 weeks of the outbreak. Our jurisdiction (not just our parish) has been pro-freedom and my only sanctuary of normalcy during this craziness.

 

[TexasJenn]

@Luna Novem , I just got home from my first Orthodox Divine Liturgy and it was wonderful. I stood the entire time, though most people sat down for a short break while the priest gave a talk about St. John the Merciful and charity. I loved the singing and joined in for most of it.

Afterward, a woman next to me introduced herself and we became fast friends. It was her second time there. We headed over to the area where they have meals and she connected me with the priest's wife and then the priest. He was incredibly warm, kind, and welcoming, kept inviting me to tell him more of my story. I was a little nervous, but everything just came tumbling out. He said with a huge smile "praise God" and seemed genuinely happy I was there.

I sat down to have lunch with some lovely people, and they eventually brought over another lady who has a very similar romantic story to mine unfolding, except she brought her long-distance beau into the church, whereas my long-distance beau helped me take that first step I'd been considering for months. They're getting married in February. She showed me the pictures of him proposing to her on a mountaintop She told me her fella called our priest and he talked to him for 3 hours! He seems incredibly generous with his time and ear, which is a very good sign. He and his wife have 7 kids, so cool!

I exchanged info with two ladies and already texted this beautiful liturgy music on YouTube to one of them.

I've been looking for the right church to tithe to, and am going to get that going right away.

Next week my new gentleman friend will be here visiting for the first time and we'll attend on Sunday together. Everybody including my new priest wanted to hear all about our story and can't wait to meet him.

The whole experience was terrific, and I've been having waves of holy spirit chills all day.

Now I see there was nothing to be worried about. It was a very pleasant, inspiring, and lovely experience

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

My opinion only there are 3 branches of Christianity that are legit. Catholic, orthodox and Protestant/evangelical. Know a lot about Mormons and Jehovah and they are not legit. Anyway find a church you like within those 3 that have not been corrupted. For me a church needs to believe in the trinity, the Bible, and that Jesus is the son of God and also God, fully God and fully man and HE is the only way to salvation, HE died for our sins. That’s the important part. Music, coverings, saints, etc that doesn’t have to be the reason, that’s more of a preference. It may take time but you will know when you find the right one for you.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

In regards to my life I was raised Catholic and thankful I was raised with faith I did not like the catholic church. Horrible scary movie sounding organ and no life if that’s the right word. Very much we all are horrible and lifeless and monotone. When I was taken to a Protestant non denominational church I saw and felt JOY. It is small, no rock band, just piano and sometimes flutes and guitar. The pastor was on fire and seemed alive. I knew that where I wanted to be. But I do also despise the mega churches with the rock band. Hate that. My church plays all the old songs and hymns without the horrid organ of death instrument. It is good to have options cause some would never get into church or go back if they didn’t feel at home. It should feel like home.

 

[Ah_Tibor]

The priest drives an $80k Cadillac to church… and during the Great Recession members were scolded for not keeping their stewardship promises for various church projects… like $100k frescos imported from Greece…).

Yeah, I know the feeling when it seems like everything comes down to "give us money" and then they get annoyed when people don't want to donate to stuff that doesn't matter in the long run.

We went to an Antiochian church the other night which was very convert heavy and it had a Protestant vibe that I can't really explain but I know it when I feel it. I can see why church shopping is intimidating.