Education Superstition

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
What do people feel about this?

My wife, who is raised orthodox christian, is very superstitious. She has all sorts of superstitions i find frankly perplexing, but alwats thought harmless enough.

Today i went for evening walk before bed as i do most nights. On the way i see a note on floor worth approx 5 dollars. This is on pavement of an empty street, i look around no one is anywhere to be seen. I shrug and take the note, go buy some gum with it (i leave wallet at home for such walks) and forget about it.

I later said to her this and she gets dramatic & worried and starts saying about how people can curse money and leave in street, especially on religious days (today is christmas).

Frankly i find this borderline insane and we had a bit of an argument about it. I say you have to consent to give anything power, and that i dont believe man can place power over another item in such a way without me giving consent (eg believing in things like this).

I kind of agreed that in hindsight i shouldnt have taken it, as i dint need it, and if someone lost it they would miss it, and i coukd see her 2nd point tgat this negative emotion can somehow connect. She says that their misfortune might be transferred.

The fact is people drop money all the time, they take phones out and it falls out, whatever, sometimes they miss it sometimed not. i dont believe essentially witches are cursing money and leaving it in the street. Its bonkers to me.

Yet because this troubled her, and this in turn troubled me, tomorrow we will go to church and i will give double the amount to the donation box. I have also prayed to my angel and christ to protect us from any malign influence that could incur.

I found the whole thing quite troubling. I am generally not superstitious and believe them to be broadly daft but harmless, but seeing how my concerned my wife was over this shook me a bit.

Id be interested in what the orthodox view on such matters might be.
 

OrthoMexicano

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
It depend but i can tell about curse money that happen. A relative of mine many year ago found a coin that was curse. Someone did ritual in cemetery using bones of dead, he thought it lucky day but it end in possession.

Real full possession. Within few days he begin to go mad, jump into tree begin speaking funny, he begin to name sin of everybody in the room thing they do not tell anyone ever. This go on for months, doctor try medication nothing. Finally they go to priest and missionary they do exorcism multiple day because demon very strong. At end they ask demon to show sign it leave...a part of chapel collapse in church. Relative fine after.

So I say curse money very real if magician have strong occult power, you need think like this. Like game, you play any skill game? See how player so skill they win all? That how some magician are, cause of many demon invocation or bloodline with occult.

Not sure if your case curse money but i say prayer and maybe bless with holy water before using.
 

OrthoMexicano

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
What do people feel about this?

My wife, who is raised orthodox christian, is very superstitious. She has all sorts of superstitions i find frankly perplexing, but alwats thought harmless enough.

Today i went for evening walk before bed as i do most nights. On the way i see a note on floor worth approx 5 dollars. This is on pavement of an empty street, i look around no one is anywhere to be seen. I shrug and take the note, go buy some gum with it (i leave wallet at home for such walks) and forget about it.

I later said to her this and she gets dramatic & worried and starts saying about how people can curse money and leave in street, especially on religious days (today is christmas).

Frankly i find this borderline insane and we had a bit of an argument about it. I say you have to consent to give anything power, and that i dont believe man can place power over another item in such a way without me giving consent (eg believing in things like this).

I kind of agreed that in hindsight i shouldnt have taken it, as i dint need it, and if someone lost it they would miss it, and i coukd see her 2nd point tgat this negative emotion can somehow connect. She says that their misfortune might be transferred.

The fact is people drop money all the time, they take phones out and it falls out, whatever, sometimes they miss it sometimed not. i dont believe essentially witches are cursing money and leaving it in the street. Its bonkers to me.

Yet because this troubled her, and this in turn troubled me, tomorrow we will go to church and i will give double the amount to the donation box. I have also prayed to my angel and christ to protect us from any malign influence that could incur.

I found the whole thing quite troubling. I am generally not superstitious and believe them to be broadly daft but harmless, but seeing how my concerned my wife was over this shook me a bit.

Id be interested in what the orthodox view on such matters might be.

Very wise my friend.
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
It depend but i can tell about curse money that happen. A relative of mine many year ago found a coin that was curse. Someone did ritual in cemetery using bones of dead, he thought it lucky day but it end in possession.

Real full possession. Within few days he begin to go mad, jump into tree begin speaking funny, he begin to name sin of everybody in the room thing they do not tell anyone ever. This go on for months, doctor try medication nothing. Finally they go to priest and missionary they do exorcism multiple day because demon very strong. At end they ask demon to show sign it leave...a part of chapel collapse in church. Relative fine after.

So I say curse money very real if magician have strong occult power, you need think like this. Like game, you play any skill game? See how player so skill they win all? That how some magician are, cause of many demon invocation or bloodline with occult.

Not sure if your case curse money but i say prayer and maybe bless eith holy water before using.

I dont believe in any such thing.

To give occultists power you have to accept their reality, which i do not.
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
Ill give an example of above.

We live on the 6th floor, appt number 119.

In my understanding, some people place these numbers in some esteem, that could lead one to believe that energy, be it bad or good, could be attracted to them

I do not place any value in numbers, and do not subscribe to their belief structure, so do not concern myself.

Ive never told my wife re the numbers, as frankly it would likely concern her.

Superstition to me is a form of being under a form of control. Maybe im naive i just thing believing in these things is a path towards madness.

Pray and seek protection from Christ, angels and saints. Christ is our lord and saviour, and from Him all malign spirirs flee.
 

OrthoMexicano

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
I dont believe in any such thing.

To give occultists power you have to accept their reality, which i do not.

Believe what you want. please explain the many case of possession and other demon influence in the history? These all people who just accept reality of occult? You live in modern world, you are part of occult reality sadly since that spirit of age.


When persecution happen you tell them to face 'you dont believe their reality' good luck amigo!
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
Thats a separate matter. I dont believe people eg man can put curses on others via inanimate objects.

It sounds like voodoo or paganism to me.

Again im interested im hearing from a specifically orthodox perspective.

If others can offer that id appreciate it.
 

OrthoMexicano

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Thats a separate matter. I dont believe people eg man can put curses on others via inanimate objects.

It sounds like voodoo or paganism to me.

Again im interested im hearing from a specifically orthodox perspective.

If others can offer that id appreciate it.

"Objects possessed by demons, when exorcised in the name of the living God, are freed from the possession of evil. The patristic evidence is abundant in the belief in possession and expulsion of the devil by the power of the word of God (Ignatios, Epistles to Philippians 3 and 12; Library of the Greek Fathers and Church Writers, Vol. 2, pp. 333 and 336; Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 4:14; Library, Vol 8, p. 82; Origen, Against Celsus, 6:44; Library, Vol. 10, p. 93).

The demonic possession of individuals and even of objects, has been accepted by the Orthodox Church today in the Sacrament of Baptism, in exorcising satanic powers in the case of the evil eye (vaskania), and in exorcising the devil in the case of a possessed person. In the early Church exorcisms were performed by a person especially trained and appointed to pray to drive out evil from those about to be baptized. Since the fourth century the place of the exorcist, as well as other functions and ministries, have been taken over by the priest. The exorcisms are prayers that invoke God to expel evil spirits. The priest prays to expel all evil, the spirit of error, of idolatry, of covetousness, of Iying and every impure act that arises from the teachings of the devil. The renunciation of the devil in baptism is used in every baptism that is performed in the Orthodox Church."
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Superstition is very common among Mediterranean/Middle Eastern Christians. I'm sure we can have a thread on "evil eyes" alone.

How is her faith? It's possible she is aware of a spiritual reality, but not devout, so that comes out as a generalized fear of curses and demonic activity through the form of superstition. She's right to be fearful of evil, but it's misdirected.
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
Superstition is very common among Mediterranean/Middle Eastern Christians. I'm sure we can have a thread on "evil eyes" alone.

How is her faith? It's possible she is aware of a spiritual reality, but not devout, so that comes out as a generalized fear of curses and demonic activity through the form of superstition. She's right to be fearful of evil, but it's misdirected.

She is raised orthodox, honours all the traditions, attends church to pray, but is not devout. She is just quite superstitious in general. But then i suppose i can be too sometimes, re sighting certain birds re to folklore and such.

I dont mind her other suoerstitions, its endearing as its always seemed positive. Things for luck and such forth. But this stuff talking about money in street being bad luck seems unhealthy to me. Ive always seen it as good luck, if anything.

To be clear its just one conversation, shes not obsessing over it. Tbh i am more than her at this point.

We will visit church and ill donate double and pray, and we agreed that will be the end of it.
 

Ben Miller

Pigeon
Non-Christian
The Jews, Africans, Native Americans and Mesoamericans are the most superstitious races in the world.

They even practice rain dancing, scalping, cannibalism, human sacrifice, and sexual perversions like the Jews sucking the penises of circumcised newborn boys.

While the people of Eurasia are not superstitious but are very militaristic and established globe spanning colonial empires.

Although the period of the Dark Ages is used to refer to Europe and Asia because of the conquests of their empires that forcibly spread organized religion, such as the Kingdom of England, the French Empire, the Dutch Empire, the 1st German Reich, and the Viking Empire in Western Europe, the empires of Moravia, Bulgaria, Georgia and Russia in Eastern Europe and the empires of the Islamic Caliphate, India, China, Japan, Mongolia, Khmer, Tibet, and the Kingdom of Thailand in Asia, the real Dark Ages was occurring simultaneously among the Jews, Africans, Native Americans, and Mesoamericans.

While the empires of Europe and Asia were busy building infrastructures and industrializing, for example, according to the Domesday Industrial Almanac, the English already had 5,624 animal mill, watermill, and windmill factories by 1086, and historical records show this number to have increased to 15,000 by the 1300s, the Jews, Africans, Native Americans, and Mesoamericans had no machinery for mass producing goods and not even draft animals, which were already used in Europe and Asia since 4000 BCE.

The Jews were primitive nomadic tribesmen before contact with the empires of Europe and Asia, and they sought to gain power in these empires through deceitful and fraudulent practices because they did not possess the military and industrial might to fight these powerful nations.

The Africans living in Saharan Africa, which is the northern part of Africa, were also primitive savages that engaged in superstitious practices and were subjugated by the Islamic Caliphate.

The Mesoamericans, because of their backwardness, were shocked to see the Portuguese and Spanish Conquistadores riding horses because they did not know how to domesticate animals and were even more shocked to see them using gunpowder, sailing ships, and milling machinery which they believed were magic.

The Native Americans and Sub-Saharan Africans were also primitive and were easily subjugated by the mighty empires of Spain, Portugal, The Netherlands, France, and Britain.

The primitive African tribes in Oceania were also subjugated by the British Empire.

Though the Mesoamericans are often falsely praised for having achievements in mathematics, astronomy, and architecture by the politically correct academics of the present time, the Mesoamericans did not even have a written language, money, weighing scales, metal, wheels, and draft animals.

Because of the absence of money among the Mesoamericans, they only had a barter economy, while the empires of Eurasia progressed to a feudal economy, with the introduction of draft animals, and then later a capitalist economy, with the introduction of mass production using mills.

Even before the introduction of mills, the Eurasian empires already had the following manufacturing tools used to mass produce goods:

Quern Stone
Grain Silo
Saltworks
Smokehouse
Potter's Wheel
Millstone
Filter Press
Giant Rock Pick
Open Flame Smelting
Mold

Source: https://nationalvanguard.org/2016/03/amerindian-apotheosis/
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
In my estimation superstition is ultimately fear-based, whearas in Christianity all we should fear is God's judgement.

In 18 months of knowing my wife this is the first time her superstition has seemed in any way unhealthy to me. But re to the incident in question, the frankly bonkers stuff about people placing curses on money apart, i can see the point that if someone has lost an item and you find it, their negative emotion about the loss, could somehow transmute. That seems vaguely tangible at least.

What does however seem wildly more tangible, is that on Christmas night, people who are out walking, with a few drinks in them, pull their phone out and drop a note without giving it a seconds more thought!
 

Cavalier

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
In my estimation superstition is ultimately fear-based, whearas in Christianity all we should fear is God's judgement.

In 18 months of knowing my wife this is the first time her superstition has seemed in any way unhealthy to me. But re to the incident in question, the frankly bonkers stuff about people placing curses on money apart, i can see the point that if someone has lost an item and you find it, their negative emotion about the loss, could somehow transmute. That seems vaguely tangible at least.

What does however seem wildly more tangible, is that on Christmas night, people who are out walking, with a few drinks in them, pull their phone out and drop a note without giving it a seconds more thought!
Throughout my life whenever I found money laying on the ground I regarded as a fortunate event. I have found 20 dollar bills on several occasions. One time I even had the good fortune to find multiple 20 dollar bills blowing around. I have also had the misfortune to have money fall from my pocket without knowing it. There is nothing superstitious about finding money.
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
Throughout my life whenever I found money laying on the ground I regarded as a fortunate event. I have found 20 dollar bills on several occasions. One time I even had the good fortune to find multiple 20 dollar bills blowing around. I have also had the misfortune to have money fall from my pocket without knowing it. There is nothing superstitious about finding money.

I agree. My wife also has other beliefs about money, that you must always keep it neatly, not allow it to scrunch up, or that will somehow equate to financial misfortune. Its bonkers to me, but fairly harmless and at least encourages good order.

Another one is any kind of hole in a piece of clothing means it must either be repaired or thrown out. Again fairly bonkers to me, i can go gym or run in a shirt with a hole and not think twice, but at least these type of beliefs encourage order and being presentable.

Its all daft really imho, but some of it at least has a positive function or tradition to it, and is harmless. When start talking about cursed money ive had enough mind.

That said, i always salute solitary magpies, count crows, and view the sight of a Robin as lucky portent. Hares i also belief carry luck, especially in a pair.

These come from folkore of my country, so im in no position to judge others on what comes from theirs.
 
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nagareboshi

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Why should we pick up the money? Here’s what a Desert Father said:

“The same Abba Agathon was walking with his disciples. One of them, finding a small green pea on the road, said to the old man, ‘Father, may I take it?’ The old man, looking at him with astonishment, said, ‘Was it you who put it there?’ ‘No,’ replied the brother. ‘How then,’ continued the old man, ‘can you take up something which you did not put down?’”

I agree with you that occult activity requires consent, but you did consent by picking up the money from the ground, which no one else had picked up, and you did not know where it came from, who was its owner, and where it was going. If your wife lives in a culture where witches cast spells on money, then I would assume that this actually happens which is why it became a tradition in her country among pious people to avoid unknown money.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
Why should we pick up the money? Here’s what a Desert Father said:



I agree with you that occult activity requires consent, but you did consent by picking up the money from the ground, which no one else had picked up, and you did not know where it came from, who was its owner, and where it was going. If your wife lives in a culture where witches cast spells on money, then I would assume that this actually happens which is why it became a tradition in her country among pious people to avoid unknown money.
I get not picking it up to not potentially take from someone else, but as far as any sort of superstitious or cursed objects, I would assume you just make the sign of the cross over the item and say a quick prayer. People brought the concern of irradiated food grown near Chernobyl to Saint Paisios, and he said just make the sign of the cross over it and it is fine, and he led by example. Seems like a similar principle to me. Christ >> curses and radiation.
 

Prores

Sparrow
Orthodox
"Objects possessed by demons, when exorcised in the name of the living God, are freed from the possession of evil. The patristic evidence is abundant in the belief in possession and expulsion of the devil by the power of the word of God (Ignatios, Epistles to Philippians 3 and 12; Library of the Greek Fathers and Church Writers, Vol. 2, pp. 333 and 336; Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 4:14; Library, Vol 8, p. 82; Origen, Against Celsus, 6:44; Library, Vol. 10, p. 93).

The demonic possession of individuals and even of objects, has been accepted by the Orthodox Church today in the Sacrament of Baptism, in exorcising satanic powers in the case of the evil eye (vaskania), and in exorcising the devil in the case of a possessed person. In the early Church exorcisms were performed by a person especially trained and appointed to pray to drive out evil from those about to be baptized. Since the fourth century the place of the exorcist, as well as other functions and ministries, have been taken over by the priest. The exorcisms are prayers that invoke God to expel evil spirits. The priest prays to expel all evil, the spirit of error, of idolatry, of covetousness, of Iying and every impure act that arises from the teachings of the devil. The renunciation of the devil in baptism is used in every baptism that is performed in the Orthodox Church."

You are correct, in fact in the actual service of Orthodox baptism the water itself is exorcized of any unclean spirits.

Objects can certainly have connections to demons, my priest has said this to me. Also animals can be possessed with demons, like the pigs from the gospels.

This isn’t superstition, it’s just reality.
 

Cavalier

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
You are correct, in fact in the actual service of Orthodox baptism the water itself is exorcized of any unclean spirits.

Objects can certainly have connections to demons, my priest has said this to me. Also animals can be possessed with demons, like the pigs from the gospels.

This isn’t superstition, it’s just reality.
Still I wouldn’t let the fear of demons or black magic prevent me from picking up lost money. Also there is very little chance that the original owner would be actually ever recover the money if I just passed it by.
 

OrthoMexicano

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
You are correct, in fact in the actual service of Orthodox baptism the water itself is exorcized of any unclean spirits.

Objects can certainly have connections to demons, my priest has said this to me. Also animals can be possessed with demons, like the pigs from the gospels.

This isn’t superstition, it’s just reality.

Yes point with poster was he ask Orthodox perspective and seem not believe that object or money on ground can be possess. Demon can influence, curse object, then you dont want in your hand.
 
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