Testosterone and Fatherhood

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
I'm curious to know what fathers' takes on having children are in relation to testosterone, or how masculine you are.

The social norm seems to be that men cuck out after becoming a father. They go a bit lovey-dovey.

This is the opposite of how I currently feel it should go.
 
I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I don't feel like my T-level has been impacted by fatherhood.

I do agree with your assessment, though, in general. Many men I have known have a kid or two, start drinking more, and then get a vasectomy. Low T, I suspect, leads to that decision, at which point it's very often all downhill from there.

I think testosterone levels are, at least in part, a choice that every man makes based largely on diet, exercise, and state of mind. Despite being a desk jockey by day, I stay very active, and have a diet very high in animal foods -- fat and protein specifically (and in that order). I almost never drink (which I highly recommend). And I've been building a farm from the ground up for the past six months or so, and there's always something to build, fix, or harvest, which keeps me mentally and physically active.

Engaging in traditionally masculine activities helps. Hanging out with other masculine men -- something many of us have been alienated from -- is really good too. Like I said earlier, I'm a desk jockey (because I bought the white collar lie many years ago), so I commute into the city (over an hour one way) for work. But the men I consider to be my closest friends are loggers, contractors, and farmers. I consider them role models, and learn a lot from them.

It also helps that I have three sons for whom I am motivated to be a good, masculine role model. It also helps that the wife and I aren't close to done, in terms of growing our family, and that she is a godly and obedient woman.

Others' mileage may vary, of course. I don't research about testosterone, how to increase it, maintain it, etc., so this is all just anecdotal (which is all I'm really worried about these days, anyway). This is just what keeps me feeling masculine and useful. Also, I am only 30, which certainly helps, though I do feel I have more masculine energy these days than I did in my early 20s (and I was in the military at that time).
 

Francis

Pigeon
Not my experience at all. I probably became a little too sensitive to my surroundings when I became a father. I remember I accidentally cut across someone (a male and female, looked like work colleagues on a lunch break) in traffic in the main shopping area of my town (this is within 1-2 days of bringing the baby home from the hospital). I waved out in a very apologetic and conciliatory manner. The man acknowledged me with a curt respectful nod. The woman bit her bottom lip hard and gave me the middle-finger and a hard stare.

Ordinarily I'd have let it go but I parked, got out of the car and waited on them coming out of the bank they had gone into. When they came out I walked straight up to both and asked why she gave me the finger. He wanted none of it and she became really embarassed. It petered-out, I controlled the situation and we actually departed with a handshake. Moral of the story was that nobody was going to mess with my baby's father like that.

That little anecdote probably doean't address the manner of cucking-out or lovey-dovey you mean. If somebody isn't capable of talking in a funny voice for their kid cos they are scared of other people's judgement, for instance, then personally I'd see that as a weakness.

Can you elaborate on what you mean?
 
Not that you "cuck" out but here are things I've experienced.

1. You don't lose testosterone, but fatherhood is a significant life shift that coincides with getting older and assuming more responsibility. The drop will come naturally with age.

2. It is easy to slip into comfort. Not having to find a mate and all the effort of "the search" can shift a man into complacency.
This mindset must be avoided through effort, working out, having discipline and standards you won't let yourself cross. For myself, it's a specific physique and weight that I will not let myself get past.

3. Your focus shifts to building a stable environment and accumulating resources for the child's future use.

4. You must stay in control of your house and family. You are the Captain of the ship. None of this: "I have to ask the wife"/she runs the finances/She will kill me if I buy another gun/car." You must be trusted to make the right decisions for the entire unit.

5. Never get a vasectomy or be forced to get one.

6. Children have a way of making you live safely. You no longer want to pop that wheelie on your sport bike, or jump out of planes, go to war, etc. Those are tasks for the young, childless and invincible.

If the definition of masculinity is doing things you did when you were a teen, living dangerously and sleeping around, then you won't be satisfied and will feel cucked.

But a father, with a loyal and obedient wife, who maintains control of his family and provides for his children, stays strong and healthy through gym and work. Stays of sound mind; leads the family and follows the Lord. I cannot think of anything more masculine than that. Happy Father's Day.
 
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gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
It also helps that I have three sons for whom I am motivated to be a good, masculine role model.
Your description sounds amazin'! Great to hear there are guys living the dream.

Your description of what to do and what not to do seems to be on point. The slide towards vasectomy seems to epitomize what I am thinking of. Some men, seem to end up turning themselves over to the wife too much, and becoming more like women. I see guys walking round looking like jelly, in poor clothes, looking scruffy with their child. There are not many who rise to the mantle of leader, which I think would keep T high, muscle tone etc. The worst I saw was a guy who got with a woman 10 years older than him. She had popped out a child, seemingly with the best sperm donor she could find before she became infertile. This guy cooed over her child - to say like a woman would be an insult - like grandma.

Can you elaborate on what you mean?
As described above. Men becoming passive, more like women, emotional doting over children, looking like jelly, feminine movements, balding ungracefully, looking like they are being led etc.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I find there are two sides to me that I can draw upon when I want to, where as before fatherhood I would generally stay more to one side.

Things that would have driven me to anger before, I find does not bother me at all.

However, I find that other things fill me with a sense of dark violence I would not have thought possible. I seem to be able to channel my ancestors thirst for scalps in a way I never thought possible.

But for general testosterone, I find its probably as high - or higher than before. Caring deeply and being a tender husband who takes no shit and will stop any petty argument before voices are ever raised, this is testosterone.

Working along side my son, stopping to wipe the sweat from our faces and take a long drink from a cold canteen. Seeing his eyes search mine in wonder. This is testosterone.
 

Stadtaffe

Sparrow
Gold Member
It's important to not have a "suburban slave" conditioning when you enter into such a thing and not be susceptible to women's tricks to guilt you away from an independent life, your own friends and hobbies etc.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
I'm curious to know what fathers' takes on having children are in relation to testosterone, or how masculine you are.

The social norm seems to be that men cuck out after becoming a father. They go a bit lovey-dovey.

This is the opposite of how I currently feel it should go.
I see many Christian women of strong faith and good family marrying beta men, perhaps not because they want to, but because it's all that's available.

An example I can post:


Screenshot_2020-06-29 Kathryn Voetberg YOUTUBE on Instagram “My ears burned every time they sa...jpg

This woman has a Youtube channel and some videos where she discusses the faith with her mother, and I've got to say I was impressed by their knowledge of the Bible and love for God; yet when I saw who she chose to marry it initially left me perplexed. Here is the theory:

As things stand, all the masculine men have only sexual freedom as possible reward, with there being no possibility for power to influence a community/society or any ideological freedom, that marriage has become something with very little incentive. Sexual liberation is indeed political control but when you reject it you still find yourself unable to displace those at the top, and have no power to say or do anything, and so sexual license becomes the only reward for being more masculine and mentally stronger.

In marriage a man relinquishes this freedom but gains in social power - yet today that's clearly not the case - oligarchs control everything and men have no power. That leaves marriage as something that requires you to give up freedom but gain socially and politically very little from it... so it seems that the only men going for it is beta males.... who of course are comfortable with being submissive.

It's not that marriage makes you beta, it's that today many betas are marrying. If you're young and masculine I'd advise for you to wait until society changes and there is opportunity for positions of power to marry, and in the meantime build your faith and strength further; thank God and love Christ - that's what I'm doing now that I've realized the situation.
 
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Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Most men are not competing with oligarchs for their piece of the world.

Most men are competing with themselves for it.

If men dropped the victim narrative, stopped blinding themselves to the natural order under God, and embraced their families future like they were meant to, this conversation would be pointless.

Telling men to wait until society changes in order to have a family is about the dumbest shit I ever heard. Waiting for society to change to do anything is exactly why we are in this mess.

A mans influence is his family - community - then if there is opportunity - his city or his country.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
Most men are not competing with oligarchs for their piece of the world.

Most men are competing with themselves for it.

If men dropped the victim narrative, stopped blinding themselves to the natural order under God, and embraced their families future like they were meant to, this conversation would be pointless.

Telling men to wait until society changes in order to have a family is about the dumbest shit I ever heard. Waiting for society to change to do anything is exactly why we are in this mess.

A mans influence is his family - community - then if there is opportunity - his city or his country.
Men have no power to influence their communities, not even the Church has power to do that now. The West is falling and it would be unwise to start a family now.

This is the only conclusion, have a look around. God takes evil and turns it into good, the proper thing to do is to wait for His command; unless you look like the man in the picture.
 
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Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Men have no power to influence their communities, not even the Church has power to do that now. The West is falling and it would be unwise to start a family now.

This is the only conclusion, have a look around. God takes evil and turns it into good, the proper thing to do is to wait for His command; unless you look like the man in the picture.
You need some help there son. Men may have given up some power in their communities, but if they decided to unite to defeat a deep rot, you bet your ass it would happen. Men have always been the only boots to influence their communities. If they are good men, they get good communities.

Men like you giving up and waiting for other men to tell them its time to have a family is retarded. The trouble is, when good men start to win again, men with your mindset are just going to be ignored. What value do men who run in the face of evil have to the community anyways? None. They wouldn't let you procreate anyways, so its a lose/lose.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
You need some help there son. Men may have given up some power in their communities, but if they decided to unite to defeat a deep rot, you bet your ass it would happen. Men have always been the only boots to influence their communities. If they are good men, they get good communities.

Men like you giving up and waiting for other men to tell them its time to have a family is retarded. The trouble is, when good men start to win again, men with your mindset are just going to be ignored. What value do men who run in the face of evil have to the community anyways? None. They wouldn't let you procreate anyways, so its a lose/lose.
There is no running today, everyone will experience the change that's coming, and it's looking to be severe. Single men are in position to help much more than a married man with young children; you're helpless at that point.

It looks like you're a boomer/early gen x so this really doesn't concern you.
 

Stats

Robin
fatherhood itself has no impact on test levels only the day to day life you make for yourself does. If anything having a kid is a huge preselection indicator that has mad all the women in my life subconsciously want me to impregnate them as well.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
There is no running today, everyone will experience the change that's coming, and it's looking to be severe. Single men are in position to help much more than a married man with young children; you're helpless at that point.

It looks like you're a boomer/early gen x so this really doesn't concern you.
I am a millennial and damn rights this certainly does concern me. It concerns all men who give a damn, regardless of age, race or class.

And of course we all will experience the change that's coming. Its what the world does - it changes. And men adapt.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
I am a millennial and damn rights this certainly does concern me. It concerns all men who give a damn, regardless of age, race or class.

And of course we all will experience the change that's coming. Its what the world does - it changes. And men adapt.
You need to familiarize yourself with the Book of Job, your initial response implies that you misunderstand how God tests man "If men dropped the victim narrative, stopped blinding themselves to the natural order under God, and embraced their families future like they were meant to, this conversation would be pointless."

Pointless, because you would soon realize that you're no longer on this earth but in the kingdom of heaven. We're simply arguing on whether it's wise to have children at this particular time; I've made my argument for waiting.

If men like the one I posted are getting the good Christian women, then I don't want the latter at this time: if that was the best available to her then it means masculine men have a greater responsibility.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
For goodness sake look at the way he's sitting..

Screenshot_2020-06-29 Kathryn Voetberg YOUTUBE ( nowthatimamother) on Instagram • 378 photos a...jpg

Screenshot_2020-06-29 Kathryn Voetberg YOUTUBE ( nowthatimamother) on Instagram • 378 photos a...jpg


You see these types of couples everywhere today - these are the men that are getting married - the Christian community is filled with them, and not solely the Protestant.


Something is very wrong.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Not sure I get your hate on this guy. He seems happy. His wife seems happy - a woman who takes pride in her appearance and that of her children is a sign of a happy woman. Look at his kids - what a blessing he must feel every day. Just because he doesn't look like the poster boy of rugged manliness does not mean he doesn't provide for his family, protect them, and lead a disciplined life that gains the respect of them - and his community.

I know its hard to judge from a photo, so neither of us should extrapolate anything from it. But this guy is under 30, has three kids and pretty wife. It tells me that he probably got off his ass and didn't take no for an answer. He certainly didn't tell himself that when the world changes for the better, then he will have family.

Envy, bro. Its a tough one.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
Not sure I get your hate on this guy. He seems happy. His wife seems happy - a woman who takes pride in her appearance and that of her children is a sign of a happy woman. Look at his kids - what a blessing he must feel every day. Just because he doesn't look like the poster boy of rugged manliness does not mean he doesn't provide for his family, protect them, and lead a disciplined life that gains the respect of them - and his community.

I know its hard to judge from a photo, so neither of us should extrapolate anything from it. But this guy is under 30, has three kids and pretty wife. It tells me that he probably got off his ass and didn't take no for an answer. He certainly didn't tell himself that when the world changes for the better, then he will have family.

Envy, bro. Its a tough one.
Envy would mean I mean them harm, which is the contrary.

What kind of protection can this man give? He's a Christian so there is hope, but it's still concerning. The title and concerns of this thread are valid, but it's not marriage that changes you; you are what you are and make choices.

I never said to wait until the world changes for the better, just until it changes - women today still have a false sense of comfort and security even though society is collapsing, and are choosing weak men to marry. When things get tough you'll see a shift.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Envy would mean I mean them harm, which is the contrary.

What kind of protection can this man give? He's a Christian so there is hope, but it's still concerning. The title and concerns of this thread are valid, but it's not marriage that changes you; you are what you are and make choices.

I never said to wait until the world changes for the better, just until it changes - women today still have a false sense of comfort and security even though society is collapsing, and are choosing weak men to marry. When things get tough you'll see a shift.
The only protection this man can give his family is what he is capable of. And to the very best of his abilities.

Being the head of your family means that you get to see the changes in the world in real time. Or you don't and get caught flat footed.

Last night, my wife went out with her friends for the first time since March. Most of them were stuck downtown in a large city, living in fear, inside condos. They gorged on social media. They obeyed the state. Their husbands never saw this coming, and now they pay the price. Their role in the past months have been to hide. Nothing more. My wife came home in tears, feeling they have nothing left in common. Celebrity gossip. Instagram. Netflix. Her friends - who were NOT LIKE THIS before the lockdown, have become these women. My wife wanted to talk next steps with them. Community building. Stronger relations with the husbands. Way of the Warrior Kid. Her garden. Singing. But no one was interested. Instead it was media talking points.

My wife, under my lead, has also changed, though. I moved my family to my farm in March, and moved back to the city 3 weeks ago. I made her overbuy meat and rice in February. She stocked our freezers. I took her to my gun shop to buy a crate of ammo, and for her be around men who were there to protect their families as well. It was before the panic, but there were men of all sorts there. Guys who look like the man in that picture. Guys who look like they have seen combat. Retired Asian men. My wife slept with a shotgun beside our bed for months. She watched from the window as my son and I walked around each night before bed to check gates, listen to the dogs, watch for cars. To talk to our neighbor.

So my wife changed, but not because the world changed, but because as a man and leader of our family, I adapted and changed our life to stay ahead of the changing world.

This is what I do to protect my family. Everything else, is in Gods hands.
 
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