Testosterone injections

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Yes that's exactly the issue and that's why I tell everyone who has anywhere near normal levels not to start with it. It's not something to toy with, it's a lifelong commitment with a lot of consequences and a lot of people who are on it will try to convince you that's it's not. A drowning man will always pull someone down with them to save themselves.

What protocol of meds are referring to if you don't mind me asking?
HCG, Clomid, Anastrozle/Armidex, Nolvadex.
Yes that's exactly the issue and that's why I tell everyone who has anywhere near normal levels not to start with it. It's not something to toy with, it's a lifelong commitment with a lot of consequences and a lot of people who are on it will try to convince you that's it's not. A drowning man will always pull someone down with them to save themselves.

What protocol of meds are referring to if you don't mind me asking?
Dave Palumbo was in his 40s when he must have come off for awhile to try to have children (his sperm count was zero). I saw a video with him when he was trying to get fertile and he tried everthing plus the kitchen sink, and it must have worked, he had three children. He is not 5'9 and 300 pounds and shredded anymore, (still looks good) but somehow he managed to give his wife three children, which was remarkable.

These are basically the same meds one would employ to try to get natural again. Who knows what timelines and doses are best? They don't always work. You can only recover to what you would have been without the intervention of AAS.

I talked to a 21-year old young man who started on T because he pulled a 234. That's a long time for testing, ancillary meds, having a doctor to treat continuously...things can change. Man, that's young when living too hard can drop your T levels that low or lower even for a young man.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
HCG, Clomid, Anastrozle/Armidex, Nolvadex.

Dave Palumbo was in his 40s when he must have come off for awhile to try to have children (his sperm count was zero). I saw a video with him when he was trying to get fertile and he tried everthing plus the kitchen sink, and it must have worked, he had three children. He is not 5'9 and 300 pounds and shredded anymore, (still looks good) but somehow he managed to give his wife three children, which was remarkable.

These are basically the same meds one would employ to try to get natural again. Who knows what timelines and doses are best? They don't always work. You can only recover to what you would have been without the intervention of AAS.

I talked to a 21-year old young man who started on T because he pulled a 234. That's a long time for testing, ancillary meds, having a doctor to treat continuously...things can change. Man, that's young when living too hard can drop your T levels that low or lower even for a young man.
I dont know that its naturally capable to drop your T to that low with out prior use...provided you have a normal HTPA. I have dropped mine as much as 100 points between tests over a year, when not on TRT by staying up late, drinking, not working out just to see where it shifted... but it never was more than 100 below my baseline.... but never seen a 400-500point drop except when coming off T for a period of 3 weeks for blood work positives only.

I would agree that at 21 I would not want to be suggesting to start TRT....but then again a 234 is low. Questions like what is his Free T? What are his levels on LH/FSH ect... those would all be factors just beyond the Total T level that would be more indicative of a medical need.

Edited to add: I see where you brought up FSH/LH discussion in previous post. So not trying to bigfoot you on the minutia, just re-iterating it as many don't fully understand the importance of those numbers in relation HTPA and testicular function.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
HCG, Clomid, Anastrozle/Armidex, Nolvadex.

Dave Palumbo was in his 40s when he must have come off for awhile to try to have children (his sperm count was zero). I saw a video with him when he was trying to get fertile and he tried everthing plus the kitchen sink, and it must have worked, he had three children. He is not 5'9 and 300 pounds and shredded anymore, (still looks good) but somehow he managed to give his wife three children, which was remarkable.

These are basically the same meds one would employ to try to get natural again. Who knows what timelines and doses are best? They don't always work. You can only recover to what you would have been without the intervention of AAS.

I talked to a 21-year old young man who started on T because he pulled a 234. That's a long time for testing, ancillary meds, having a doctor to treat continuously...things can change. Man, that's young when living too hard can drop your T levels that low or lower even for a young man.


Fertility and raising your natural testosterone levels are not necessarily the same thing. Those drugs will work for fertility, temporarily, but as far as recovering from AAS use they don't do anything but buy time. AI's and SERMS work for raising your testosterone levels only while you are using them, one you stop using them the levels do not remain elevated. The whole concept of "PCT" is really just buying time for your body to recover on it's own which is fine but the issue comes where each one of those drugs has their own set of consequences and are not something you can use long term.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
Fertility and raising your natural testosterone levels are not necessarily the same thing. Those drugs will work for fertility, temporarily, but as far as recovering from AAS use they don't do anything but buy time. AI's and SERMS work for raising your testosterone levels only while you are using them, one you stop using them the levels do not remain elevated. The whole concept of "PCT" is really just buying time for your body to recover on it's own which is fine but the issue comes where each one of those drugs has their own set of consequences and are not something you can use long term.
Not everyone on TRT has an issue with fertility. Many are able to get their wives/gf/rando's pregnant while on lots of gear or TRT.

Chronicity of use, not cycle amount, is typically the underlying factor here.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Not everyone on TRT has an issue with fertility. Many are able to get their wives/gf/rando's pregnant while on lots of gear or TRT.

Chronicity of use, not cycle amount, is typically the underlying factor here.


Oh yea 100%, my super juiced out for years crazy irresponsible with it friend knocked up his wife twice all geared up and I know lots of other people have as well. I was speaking in regards to raising your natural testosterone levels, it's not the same thing as fertility.


IN FACT, new studies are showing that it actually benefits you to have raised testosterone to promote fertility. A TRT dose would not necessarily hinder your ability to knock a chick up. When you start blasting huge doses and using other compounds, mind you some of these steroids were specifically originally researched as male contraceptive, that's when you start having issues. But even then some people don't, it's very individual.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
Your post six months LH and FSH is very normal and healthy but your total T is lower than your LH and FSH would suggest. Were you considered "secondary" when you began TRT? If you were "primary" (testicular failure) those would be a lot higher.

Your post six months LH and FSH is very normal and healthy but your total T is lower than your LH and FSH would suggest. Were you considered "secondary" when you began TRT? If you were "primary" (testicular failure) those would be a lot higher.
I was secondary, since I was on chronic opioids. I am almost 62, married to a young wife who wants kids.

I read an article that it may take up to 3 years for sperm to recover from TRT.

 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I dont know that its naturally capable to drop your T to that low with out prior use...provided you have a normal HTPA. I have dropped mine as much as 100 points between tests over a year, when not on TRT by staying up late, drinking, not working out just to see where it shifted... but it never was more than 100 below my baseline.... but never seen a 400-500point drop except when coming off T for a period of 3 weeks for blood work positives only.

I would agree that at 21 I would not want to be suggesting to start TRT....but then again a 234 is low. Questions like what is his Free T? What are his levels on LH/FSH ect... those would all be factors just beyond the Total T level that would be more indicative of a medical need.

Edited to add: I see where you brought up FSH/LH discussion in previous post. So not trying to bigfoot you on the minutia, just re-iterating it as many don't fully understand the importance of those numbers in relation HTPA and testicular function.
Yes, the LH and FSH will indicate to the doctor primary or secondary hypogonadism.
When I was in my mid 30s I had a total T of 197 which was due to too much stress according to an endocrinologist. 197. I cut back on projects I was doing and got more sleep and at age 39 it was 852, so a huge drop is possible. I don't know about the young man's history but a 234 at 21 is deplorable. He looked like he was in the pink of health though and said he was on T for life.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Oh yea 100%, my super juiced out for years crazy irresponsible with it friend knocked up his wife twice all geared up and I know lots of other people have as well. I was speaking in regards to raising your natural testosterone levels, it's not the same thing as fertility.


IN FACT, new studies are showing that it actually benefits you to have raised testosterone to promote fertility. A TRT dose would not necessarily hinder your ability to knock a chick up. When you start blasting huge doses and using other compounds, mind you some of these steroids were specifically originally researched as male contraceptive, that's when you start having issues. But even then some people don't, it's very individual.
Raising T levels naturally most definitely helps with fertility because more natural T = more spermotogenisis. As you likely know, exogenous T shuts down the LH to zero and FSH to zero and the result is no sperm. Some unscrupulous doctors have actually prescribed T to help fertility but what happens is they become infertile.

Young guys in their 20s who are at that indestructble age, often can still maintain some fertility especially with post cycle therapy, but an older man would be kissing fertility goodbye. Younge people can get away with about anything, and I am jealous.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Oh yea 100%, my super juiced out for years crazy irresponsible with it friend knocked up his wife twice all geared up and I know lots of other people have as well. I was speaking in regards to raising your natural testosterone levels, it's not the same thing as fertility.


IN FACT, new studies are showing that it actually benefits you to have raised testosterone to promote fertility. A TRT dose would not necessarily hinder your ability to knock a chick up. When you start blasting huge doses and using other compounds, mind you some of these steroids were specifically originally researched as male contraceptive, that's when you start having issues. But even then some people don't, it's very individual.
You are right, it is highly individualistic. I still don't know how Palumbo managed to it. I know how, I just don't know how he responded so well. He looked like a walking pharmacy.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Yep, a 32 year old nurse. Living in Ormoc, Leyte. Waiting for her US Visa interview.

Yep. That was my motivation to quit the pain meds and TRT.
Wow, good luck to both of you. Are you able to see a male fertility specialist who might be able to help you with something like human chorionic gonadotropin? I assume you are able to acquire a sperm test(s)?
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Not everyone on TRT has an issue with fertility. Many are able to get their wives/gf/rando's pregnant while on lots of gear or TRT.

Chronicity of use, not cycle amount, is typically the underlying factor here.
I am aware some young bucks can do it, but an older guy...all bets are off. He will need medical help to get cranked back up again, and it may not be possible.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
Wow, good luck to both of you. Are you able to see a male fertility specialist who might be able to help you with something like human chorionic gonadotropin? I assume you are able to acquire a sperm test(s)?
Went to a fertility clinic in Cebu last year. Wife has endometriosis and had an ovary removed 3 years ago, so it has been challenging.

CV19 has the city on lockdown, so unable to travel to Cebu. A hospital in my city is also under lockdown, healthcare workers testing positive.

I would love to have new labs, but only basic labs are available here in Ormoc.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Went to a fertility clinic in Cebu last year. Wife has endometriosis and had an ovary removed 3 years ago, so it has been challenging.

CV19 has the city on lockdown, so unable to travel to Cebu. A hospital in my city is also under lockdown, healthcare workers testing positive.

I would love to have new labs, but only basic labs are available here in Ormoc.
We want to live in Davao City when we can get away, maybe several more years. My biggest concern when there is the medical. Here in America you can pretty much get anything you need for anything, but I imagine that is more challenging in the beautiful Philippines.

If you are able to get your wife pregnant, you may be able to write a book about it. Your wife's age is in your favor still.
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
For the record, it’s not true that people who go on TRT are always going to want higher doses and progressively ruin their bodies that way. I went from 120ng/dL to 140 for a couple weeks, hated it, and dropped back down to 120. I’ve been on TRT for over a year and have zero desire to increase the dose, though the reason is spiritual (I want less pride and lust, not more) more than medical.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
For the record, it’s not true that people who go on TRT are always going to want higher doses and progressively ruin their bodies that way. I went from 120ng/dL to 140 for a couple weeks, hated it, and dropped back down to 120. I’ve been on TRT for over a year and have zero desire to increase the dose, though the reason is spiritual (I want less pride and lust, not more) more than medical.

You’re an outlier brother, take pride in that it’s a good thing!
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
For the record, it’s not true that people who go on TRT are always going to want higher doses and progressively ruin their bodies that way. I went from 120ng/dL to 140 for a couple weeks, hated it, and dropped back down to 120. I’ve been on TRT for over a year and have zero desire to increase the dose, though the reason is spiritual (I want less pride and lust, not more) more than medical.
I agree with you that higher levels can have diminishing returns. I know some people who did not feel good-too anxious-at 1000 ng/dl and wanted something more normal, although 1000 ng/dl is still physiologic, it is close to superphysiologic. For most men, 120 to 140 mg a week gets them in the upper fourth of the range and there really isn't any physical benefit to it being higher.
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Yeah, my happy zone is around 750. My doctor wanted me to try to 140 because he said most guys tend to like the 900 range, but I started turning back into my old self a bit too much for my liking. My natural level in my twenties was probably above 1000.
 
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