The 4 Hour Body - The Results
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Albatross said:
Anyone can put on muscle with proper training guaranteed because thats simply the way the human body works. Go off and read any scientific studies on how muscle is built. Something like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20847704 will provide you with the hard science behind it. There is literally zero doubt about this, its empirical scientific fact, not broscience or guru-speak.
I'm sorry if you wasted 2 years of your life on Tim Ferris's fad program and made absolutely no gains. You really should have just started a traditional weight lifting program (literally ANY one), you would look a hell of a lot better now.
Instead of getting butthurt and spending your time defending a program that clearly doesn't work all over the internet I'd recommend you go off and do some basic reading on weightlifting (start on wiki I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training ) and start a normal program. The sooner you start the sooner you'll make progress.
zatara said:
Nope. Again, no actual scientific studies shown by you that "proper training" guarantees muscle gain for all humans. Just another explanatory paper review. Just more beliefs, assumptions, dogma. Prove that there's "literally zero doubt" about it. If it's "empirical scientific fact", show it. Oh wait, you can't.
RichieP
Pelican
Actually, some people cant put on muscle, or only very little. They have muscular, digestive, hormonal or neurological disorders.
But it's well known that resistance training in healthy adults causes hypertrophy, given adequate protein intake.
Here are 60,600 Google Scholar results for "resistance training hypertrophy" for you to pore over:
https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...+hypertrophy+&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1
But it's well known that resistance training in healthy adults causes hypertrophy, given adequate protein intake.
Here are 60,600 Google Scholar results for "resistance training hypertrophy" for you to pore over:
https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...+hypertrophy+&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1
Albatross said:
That paper I linked to discusses the exact science behind how resistance training leads to muscle hypertrophy in humans. Its not a belief, assumption, or dogma. Its empirical, peer reviewed, science. Likewise as do tends of thousands of other scientific papers, as RichieP linked to.
If you don't want to believe that resistance training leads to muscle growth in humans thats up to you, you're as free to believe that as you are free to believe the Earth is flat. It does however make you come across as either A) a troll or b) someone trying very hard to justify their own failure to put on muscle.
He wasn't training hard enough. Lots of people just move the weights and train to noywhere near failure. If your muscle doesn't exert itself to anything close to failure, no damage is done to the tissue, and no signals are sent to grow. Even if you don't eat properly, if you train hard, you will change your body shape, increase strength etc. You see this is manual workers or even boxers/kickboxers in SEA countries for example, they have no bodyfat and their build is completely different from this guy. But you need a calorie surplus to gain weight, and if you don't eat a lot of protein, you won't gain a lot muscle.
I've already said my piece on it before, but Albatross is right. For some bodies it really is like fighting the sunrise. Try 5 months straight of lifting to failure whilst chugging 2 high-calorie protein shakes a day on top of your daily diet, and seeing a epic 3kg gain for all that and say "everything is just about how much you want it". Talk's cheap and easy.
That's not to say it's impossible though, there's always the drug route. If it made Linux a monster, it can make a skinny weed at least athletic looking.
That's not to say it's impossible though, there's always the drug route. If it made Linux a monster, it can make a skinny weed at least athletic looking.
Lifting to failure won't mean much if it's the same weight every time.
Maybe it is something to do with appetite regulation. Even if you were not deliberately counting calories and bulking, squatting and deadlifting heavy should make you hungry. If you lift and then don't eat, you're going to feel like shit (in my experience).
For linear progression I would lift, eat, and often collapse on the couch totally exhausted afterwards.
Maybe it is something to do with appetite regulation. Even if you were not deliberately counting calories and bulking, squatting and deadlifting heavy should make you hungry. If you lift and then don't eat, you're going to feel like shit (in my experience).
For linear progression I would lift, eat, and often collapse on the couch totally exhausted afterwards.
Phoenix said:
Some people absolutely find it harder to put on muscle than others, but its still possible for anyone who trains properly. Its just going to be a longer, slower, harder process.
3KG in 5 months works out to over 7KG a year, which is actually pretty steady progress, for what its worth. I was a tiny teenager (140lb/63KG @ 6ft0) with no muscle mass and a fast metabolism. It took me 6 years of serious lifting to go from 63KG to approx 220lb/100KG. Or about 6KG of gains a year.
A lot of newbies get discouraged after not seeing huge gains in 6 months and give-up. The key is just sticking to a program over the medium/long-term.
(presuming you're not on a ridiculous 4 hour a month program that is)
RexImperator said:
Sure, perhaps if I'd done 99% instead of 95%, all of a sudden them gainz would've burst forth like a flood.
Not really, simply not how life works. Everything is on a bell curve. One of my good friends does absolutely zero (he doesn't even know the names of any weightlifting movements), other than mow his lawn, makes zero effort to control his diet, and has a build somewhere between a barrel and a triangle.
Everybody gets internet bravado points for saying "nah you just didn't do X enough", but that's all anybody gets. A lot of the time it distracts men from playing to their strengths.
If you've had a serious, sustained and honest crack at gaining weight, and it's done nothing (especially versus the investment you've put in), your time might simply be better invested elsewhere, levering off the strengths you do have, to boost your SMV where you can.
RichieP
Pelican
Phoenix, I've yet to meet or hear of an able-bodied male who genuinely does everything right and fails to gain well, e.g:
-Bumps the calories- 1000+ caloric surplus per day, 40%+ of total cals as protein
-Does regular compound lifts, tracks progress, consistently increases weight and /or reps
-Sleeps before midnight and gets 8hrs+
Nearly always when someone puts the effort in but gets nowhere, they are falling short in one of these areas.
Like, simply eating that much should ensure *weight* gain. Then assuming he's sleeping and has at least low-end male tesosterone levels, correct lifting would ensure some of that is muscle gain.
Only reasons for not gaining here would be extreme stress, serious hormonal/digestive/muscular/neurological disorder, etc.
Totally agree about playing to your strengths though. For some guys this is not a channel it's worth the effort to excel in, and there are much quicker ways to significantly boost your SMV.
-Bumps the calories- 1000+ caloric surplus per day, 40%+ of total cals as protein
-Does regular compound lifts, tracks progress, consistently increases weight and /or reps
-Sleeps before midnight and gets 8hrs+
Nearly always when someone puts the effort in but gets nowhere, they are falling short in one of these areas.
Like, simply eating that much should ensure *weight* gain. Then assuming he's sleeping and has at least low-end male tesosterone levels, correct lifting would ensure some of that is muscle gain.
Only reasons for not gaining here would be extreme stress, serious hormonal/digestive/muscular/neurological disorder, etc.
Totally agree about playing to your strengths though. For some guys this is not a channel it's worth the effort to excel in, and there are much quicker ways to significantly boost your SMV.
Phoenix said:
Like I said at the bottom of the last page, your gain of 3KG in 5 months (7.2KG on a yearly basis) is actually a quite solid muscle gain rate. If you'd stuck with your program and diet for say, a period of 2 or 3 years, you would have ended up 14-20KG heavier. That would have made a huge difference to your life. Unfortunately 5 months is not a "sustained and honest crack at gaining weight", the process is much longer and slower for those of us who aren't genetically gifted (or on steroids).
Bodybuilding isn't like cardiovascular training, where you can see big improvements in a 10 week window of intense training. Its a gradual, incremental, process where it takes years for the real benefits to manifest.
edit re: SMV benefits, I'm going to quote a post on this I made a while ago:
RichieP said:
Practically everything written here is nothing but arbitrary intuition.
Where are you getting these numbers from? How do you KNOW with certainty that this amount of calorie surplus + that amount of macro split = GUARANTEED GAINZ NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
You don't actually know with any empirical rigour, it's just something you read or heard somewhere and roughly FEEL is true.
The problem with the popular bodybuilding industry is that it lacks falsifiability, the concept that demarcates science and non-science.
Everything can be explained away, like a quasi-cult.
"Oh you didn't do the perfect ABC routine!"
"Oh you you didn't eat the perfect XYZ diet!"
"Oh you must've not eaten enough!"
"Oh you just must've not trained intensely!"
On and on... it's always the same. Never is any room given to the possibility that this shit simply might not be exactly true or that it just might not work for all.
There are some unfortunate souls such as in the OP who don't gain shit despite all due diligence, while there are others who pack on more muscle living in a coma.
RichieP
Pelican
Actually most of it is based on very simple, well-established biology and exercise science. The kind that you might find in a high school text book.
If you don't believe eating a large caloric surplus makes healthy humans gain weight, I can't help you.
If you don't believe resistance training stimulates hypertrophy, I can't help you.
If you need to read any of the hundreds of studies supporting these well-established facts - although I doubt they'd help you - Google Scholar is your friend. Search for "hypertrophy", "resistance training" "weight gain", "caloric surplus", etc. You'll get there eventually.
If you don't believe eating a large caloric surplus makes healthy humans gain weight, I can't help you.
If you don't believe resistance training stimulates hypertrophy, I can't help you.
If you need to read any of the hundreds of studies supporting these well-established facts - although I doubt they'd help you - Google Scholar is your friend. Search for "hypertrophy", "resistance training" "weight gain", "caloric surplus", etc. You'll get there eventually.
Albatross said:
I don't know why you're mad about your lack of results. You wanted the "4 hour body", you got it.
Fact is, if you're doing a routine and you don't see any changes to your strength or size after two months, you should do something else.
You should also see how much you are eating and if you're not gaining any weight, you eat more. Lifting weights won't magically by itself turn you into a behemoth, you have to eat like one too.
One of the things I started doing to gain weight was to eat large, simple meals out of bigger dishes.
Your tired premise revolves around this idea of:
yeah well not ALL routines are going to deliver the same results to everyone who does them!
I respond with: Yeah, and water is wet, what is your point? If you want someone to lift the weight for you then go on youtube and watch training videos and quit complaining that you're not big enough.
You might as well complain that not everyone who tries really hard gets to succeed. Such is life. Maybe you think you're trying harder than you really are.
If you're going to whine and complain about being a hard gainer and how hard it is for you, you might as well go ahead and do steroids and get on with your life.
In the meantime, people who actually want to get somewhere will err on the side of spending more than eight minutes in the gym so we can perform heavy compound exercises that many folks find unpleasant.
I dug through the blog and found this.
The guy claims to be eating 2300 calories a day at a bodyweight of 137 pounds. That's on the lower end of a bulk. Kudos to him for actually counting calories, but he should have just straight up ate an extra meal a day.
Also this is what the "workouts" look like.
If I am not mistaken, that is 2 decent exercises per workout for one single set of 7 to 10 reps. Yeah, no wonder this guy isn't getting anywhere. Swings are even optional. I think Pavel's "Power to the People" has more volume than this and it's not even a mass building program.
This routine might have worked if the guy trained in a commercial gym and could add actual resistance, but no, as far as I can tell he's derping around with a 50 lb dumbbell in his apartment. As much as I bash on it, Convict Conditioning or that Nassim Taleb "one rep max on the deadlift once a week" program would be better than what this guy is doing because those two involve progressive overload.
50 lbs on squats, presses, and rows isn't jack shit. It's an Olympic bar with 2 little 2.5 lb plates on the end.
Albatross. First things first. You're an asshole that is being disrespectful to members that have been here for a while.
Barring any rare conditions or diseases, caloric surplus, correct micros and workout plan for YOU will yield results. It will take experimentation, It won't be easy, it will take years. Stop being so defeatist, actually try to solve your issue and see if you have what it takes.
Barring any rare conditions or diseases, caloric surplus, correct micros and workout plan for YOU will yield results. It will take experimentation, It won't be easy, it will take years. Stop being so defeatist, actually try to solve your issue and see if you have what it takes.
Balkan
Woodpecker
Guys like Albatross degrade this forum. You don't have to agree with anyone but have some respect. "I want proof that anyone can put on muscle guaranteed" and I want proof that we don't live in a simulation and until I get it, the observable laws of nature do not apply. Barring disabling genetic defects or lack of 46 chromosomes, the aforementioned workout advice yields results. Your hamster is running at insane speeds if you're using gimmicky explanations like +1000cal surplus are not effective because of heat loss and some people are non-responders to hypertrophy training. This demand that fitness advice is only valid when it includes every human data point is comical.
People are being disrespectful to me TBH. Calling me a troll or condescending me or saying I'm the guy in the OP (lmfao thank god no) for simply disagreeing with them and questioning their dogma. Tell me, how is it ever possible to go against consensus without arousing the mob? This response is not surprising.
Anyway, I'm not gonna keep responding back and forth, and I will rest on what I have said. My overall point starts with this, that in this world there is wide innate variation. There are men who are 7 feet tall and there are men who are 5 foot flat toddler sized. There are men with 10 inch dicks and there are men with 1 inch micrococks. There are men with minds that can design space ships and there are men who can barely space their own name. This is a fact, and it only follows that such similar variety exists respecting muscularity and athletic potential. And when it comes to these things, the guy in the OP just lost. While I'm sure he's intelligent, hardworking, a good person and so on, when it comes to below the neck, he is complete genetic trash. It like his body sent out a signal "Do not grow!". He did more or less everything right - counted macros, ate clean, regimented program, enough sleep, blood work, 20 lb bulk, slow careful cut - and came out looking like absolute unchanged shit.
The hints of his biological fail are apparent from the beginning and throughout - according to his body scans he carries less than LBM than the AVERAGE 5'6"+ WOMAN WHO DOESN'T EVEN LIFT. Let that sink in. So it's OVER. Discussion closed. There are people who are simply not meant to adapt to training and be muscled no matter what they do and he is one of them. Studies have shown this clearly, which I can provide. Meanwhile despite repeated requests no one yet has proven what is supposed to be the taken for granted, obvious foundation of the fitness sphere, which is that good gains follow for ALL with 'proper' programming.
Anyway, I'm not gonna keep responding back and forth, and I will rest on what I have said. My overall point starts with this, that in this world there is wide innate variation. There are men who are 7 feet tall and there are men who are 5 foot flat toddler sized. There are men with 10 inch dicks and there are men with 1 inch micrococks. There are men with minds that can design space ships and there are men who can barely space their own name. This is a fact, and it only follows that such similar variety exists respecting muscularity and athletic potential. And when it comes to these things, the guy in the OP just lost. While I'm sure he's intelligent, hardworking, a good person and so on, when it comes to below the neck, he is complete genetic trash. It like his body sent out a signal "Do not grow!". He did more or less everything right - counted macros, ate clean, regimented program, enough sleep, blood work, 20 lb bulk, slow careful cut - and came out looking like absolute unchanged shit.
The hints of his biological fail are apparent from the beginning and throughout - according to his body scans he carries less than LBM than the AVERAGE 5'6"+ WOMAN WHO DOESN'T EVEN LIFT. Let that sink in. So it's OVER. Discussion closed. There are people who are simply not meant to adapt to training and be muscled no matter what they do and he is one of them. Studies have shown this clearly, which I can provide. Meanwhile despite repeated requests no one yet has proven what is supposed to be the taken for granted, obvious foundation of the fitness sphere, which is that good gains follow for ALL with 'proper' programming.
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