The abortion thread

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
I understand trying to find a silver lining in such confusing evil. The level of comfort women have killing their own babies is senseless.

The "better to kill babies than have an unloving mother" idea is a fallacy and a pro-murder talking point. The distress women go through after killing their own child is settled science. They know they were deceived and committed a serious sin, even if they claim to be atheist.
This is very interesting and I appreciate you sending a perfect pitch over my plate. The level of comfort women have from "access to abortion" is entirely understandable. I have severe regrets from things I have done in my past. My worldly self would give anything to be able to undo any and all of these things. The promise of abortion is simply a "get out of regret free" card that women have. Who in the world would give up such a thing. It's not true that it's free, but it sure seems that way.

Better to be aborted than to be unwanted and unloved is no fallacy. What logical fallacy does this fall under? None. This is merely an opinion that I have. I would prefer to have been aborted than to have been born to a mother who did not love me. That is a fact, and you cannot appeal to logic against an actual fact.
 

Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
Yes, I would not expect anything else than this, I understand.

Who cares what the elites do? That is of this world, not of the Kingdom of God. Nothing will change until God wills it, and that means bringing the Kingdom of God here to earth. But not the way that you expect. That was what the Jews expected from the Messiah too, but it is not what Jesus preached. The most difficult thing in the world, apparently, is giving up the world. I fully understand where you are coming from my brother, and I also understand that in this limited forum post I cannot make you understand where I am coming from.

I honestly care not about abortion, genocide, murder, anything. No number of human deaths is any better or worse than one. We all die, and the sum always adds up to the same number. I say focus on God and not on the issues and worries of the world. Eventually it will all make sense.

When Jesus said faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains, tell me what he meant. When you understand this scripture, you will also be able to judge issues of the world correctly.


Here are some scriptures that mention orphans, but I think the points here go to show God's attitude towards abortion, genocide, murder, anything. It looks to me that we are commanded to care about these issues. Protecting babies from being murdered is a pretty fundamental moral issue, and if you have to support one political candidate over another over this issue, I think that is the least that should be done.

 

Gimlet

Pelican
Better to be aborted than to be unwanted and unloved is no fallacy. What logical fallacy does this fall under? None. This is merely an opinion that I have. I would prefer to have been aborted than to have been born to a mother who did not love me. That is a fact, and you cannot appeal to logic against an actual fact.

It is extremely rare for a mother to not love her baby. It almost never happens, except for mental illness. When a nation is conquered and the women are raped in the process, those women still love their babies. Look at the Spanish speaking countries of the Americas as eivdence. Don't believe the lies that the pro-abortion folks say. Oxytocin is real, and bonds mothers to babies. This is God's design.
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
Here are some scriptures that mention orphans, but I think the points here go to show God's attitude towards abortion, genocide, murder, anything. It looks to me that we are commanded to care about these issues. Protecting babies from being murdered is a pretty fundamental moral issue, and if you have to support one political candidate over another over this issue, I think that is the least that should be done.

I know what the Bible says about widows and orphans, but it means different things to you than it does to me. Widows and orphans to me are those who do not have a proper spiritual covering in their husbands and fathers, and so those of us in Christ are to be their spiritual covering. Everything makes a lot more sense when read in terms of the spirit instead of the physical body. I implore you to re-read song of songs as the relationship between the spirit and the soul. It's almost disturbing at first read for a man, but in reality, it is an extremely intimate, nay, the most intimate relationship in creation.
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
It is extremely rare for a mother to not love her baby. It almost never happens, except for mental illness. When a nation is conquered and the women are raped in the process, those women still love their babies. Look at the Spanish speaking countries of the Americas as eivdence. Don't believe the lies that the pro-abortion folks say. Oxytocin is real, and bonds mothers to babies. This is God's design.
Yes, when a mother loves her child it is exactly as you say, among the more beautiful aspects of God's creation. But when a prospective mother does not want her child, and wants what the world has to offer, better not to be born to such as these. But we are still arguing for the world here, and I am not interested in that.

Of course I don't believe the lies of pro-abortion folks, and yes of course they are liars. They learned from their father the devil. But the world is what it is and I have no interest in these issues or political debates for the sake of the world. God's Kingdom only.
 

traelo

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
Better to be aborted than to be unwanted and unloved is no fallacy. What logical fallacy does this fall under? None. This is merely an opinion that I have. I would prefer to have been aborted than to have been born to a mother who did not love me. That is a fact, and you cannot appeal to logic against an actual fact.
By this logic you could justify infantcide, like Barack Obama did.

Abortion is murder, plain and simple. Mothers do love their child, due to oxytocin. One of the reasons mothers are afraid to have their baby is because they know the oxytocin will kick in and it will be difficult to give the baby up for adoption. This is another reason abortion is evil, it's cold and calculated, not some heat of the moment decision.
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
By this logic you could justify infantcide, like Barack Obama did.

Abortion is murder, plain and simple. Mothers do love their child, due to oxytocin. One of the reasons mothers are afraid to have their baby is because they know the oxytocin will kick in and it will be difficult to give the baby up for adoption. This is another reason abortion is evil, it's cold and calculated, not some heat of the moment decision.
I'm not justifying anything. I'm simply suggesting that we all stop wasting our time on a political dead end. Whatever people on the side of anti-abortion are doing, it is completely ineffective and producing zero good results. Let them murder their own offspring, not our problem. Focus on your family, be the spiritual covering for your children, so that they receive Christ and reject the world. Why do you care so much for your enemies' unborn children? They will simply grow up to be your children's enemies in the future, swelling the ranks of those pushing every kind of evil on your children. Let them die mercifully in the womb.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Why do you care so much for your enemies' unborn children?
Because an unborn baby is still already a baby. It is a person; it is a living being. Every such person has the right to be born.

If we refuse the death penalty because we recognize the inviolability of life, then why are abortion and euthanasia considered acceptable, because both are destroying human life?
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
Because an unborn baby is still already a baby. It is a person; it is a living being. Every such person has the right to be born.

If we refuse the death penalty because we recognize the inviolability of life, then why are abortion and euthanasia considered acceptable, because both are destroying human life?
Good luck proving that every such person has the right to be born. What appeal to logic or anything else gives anyone such right?

Why do you want to force people to live without sin? Are we Islamic now? Their hearts are full of murder but you think forcing them to act according to your notions of virtue and rights is the answer? If you don't change their hearts, if you don't bring the spirit of God to them, then you have accomplished nothing. Whether or not an organism is born has nothing to do with anything.

Arguing with you people is like arguing with women. Nearly pointless. You argue with your soul and not your spirit, because you do not have the spirit of God. Your emotions will lead you to misery. The world is a reflection of this. It's not your fault exactly, you haven't received the spirit. By your fruits I know you. Your only prayer should be that God sends someone to you with the Word, and that you have the faith to receive it when it comes. Then you will be able to judge correctly.
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
Look at things this way: there are no rights, there is only power. Every day the government violates its own laws, violating our supposed rights. The people are clearly powerless to stop this, because if we had the power we would stop it. For Americans in particular, the notion of rights is nothing more than a magic spell that is cast on us to stop debate or action in its tracks.

God himself killed or ordered killed countless infants and children, not to mention everyone else. What about their rights? Why don't you turn against God for all this violation of people's rights? Clearly at some level you all understand that rights are a joke. Let go, be free. You cannot serve two masters.
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
What exactly did you do to overturn Roe v Wade? The judges actually judged the law correctly, which is a minor miracle. Abortions are down, what a victory! Every night when I go to bed I'll be sure to note that only 2331 babies were aborted instead of the 2548 average per day before. In the end the score counts right? Like a game of soccer. The 2331 babies didn't have any rights but that's OK, Roe V Wade and abortions are down. I guess as long as you feel some deep emotions about the 2331 babies then it's all OK, like they actually had rights.
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
To make clear: I am not pro-abortion. I simply do not care if my enemies abort their own babies. Everyone dies. I believe lots of things about this and the afterlife. I believe God tells the truth, and that he is merciful. The aborted have nothing to fear.
Roe v Wade got overturned earlier this year, and abortions are down. So I beg to differ about it being "completely ineffective".
Even better, it cost "Us" the senate, and nearly the house. The invasion of immigrants across our southern border will only increase, eventually probably leading to civil war and many deaths of women and children in our lifetime. Not to mention Democrat majorities in congress and the presidency going forward. You will see in your lifetime a constitutional amendment that codifies a birthing person's right to abortion at any time for any reason. Not to mention legalized pedophilia. Such a tremendous victory!

Women without proper spiritual covering voted for the destruction of the country because they are easily emotionally manipulated. I suggest we don't be like this.
 

traelo

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
To make clear: I am not pro-abortion. I simply do not care if my enemies abort their own babies.
Everyone dies. I believe lots of things about this and the afterlife. I believe God tells the truth, and that he is merciful. The aborted have nothing to fear.

Even better, it cost "Us" the senate, and nearly the house. The invasion of immigrants across our southern border will only increase, eventually probably leading to civil war and many deaths of women and children in our lifetime. Not to mention Democrat majorities in congress and the presidency going forward. You will see in your lifetime a constitutional amendment that codifies a birthing person's right to abortion at any time for any reason. Not to mention legalized pedophilia. Such a tremendous victory!

Women without proper spiritual covering voted for the destruction of the country because they are easily emotionally manipulated. I suggest we don't be like this.
"Overturning Roe v Wade will lead to legalized pedophilia."

jennifer lawrence ok.gif
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
Overturning Roe v Wade will lead to legalized pedophilia.
It lead to the loss of the senate and nearly the loss of the house. On only the slightest cause for consternation to women and their emotions. And no, the overturning of Roe v Wade will not be the cause of the legalized pedophilia that is to come. The aftermath is merely a symptom that points to what is to come. While "we" all focus on abortion, our "rights" are eroded further every day and we are powerless to stop it.

God's Kingdom will not come because we anti-abortion harder every day.

Edited to note: The Roe V Wade decision was legally correct and I'm 100% in favor of this ruling. It just won't make any difference in the end.
 
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carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
Because I am not a woman, all the emoji dislikes of my posts have no effect on me.

I propose the following, in order to be constructive: Instead of fighting a losing battle to try to stop our enemies from aborting their babies, we try to stop our enemies from pushing pornography on OUR children. A much better use of our time and effort. Women in general do not like pornography and are easily swayed against it through rhetoric. We could actually win this fight and at the least relegate all pornography to a .xxx domain where we could easily block it from our households and devices.

An outright ban on pornography would be better, but this would not be a winnable fight, given the spell cast on America long ago in the form of the "right" to free speech. Pornography does horrible things to our sons, as we well know, and by that also does horrible things to our daughters. I say let us choose our battles, and pick one that we can both win and benefit from.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Good luck proving that every such person has the right to be born. What appeal to logic or anything else gives anyone such right?

Why do you want to force people to live without sin? Are we Islamic now? Their hearts are full of murder but you think forcing them to act according to your notions of virtue and rights is the answer? If you don't change their hearts, if you don't bring the spirit of God to them, then you have accomplished nothing. Whether or not an organism is born has nothing to do with anything.

Arguing with you people is like arguing with women. Nearly pointless. You argue with your soul and not your spirit, because you do not have the spirit of God. Your emotions will lead you to misery. The world is a reflection of this. It's not your fault exactly, you haven't received the spirit. By your fruits I know you. Your only prayer should be that God sends someone to you with the Word, and that you have the faith to receive it when it comes. Then you will be able to judge correctly.
Not going to bother answering your post for a couple of reasons.

1. From your "New Member Introduction" post:
New member of the forum but have been reading Roosh since before his conversion and attended his talk in Portland with my son. Been reading Vox for much longer. Christian of no particular denomination, doctrine could be described as "Kingdom of God". Strong in faith thanks be to God through Christ. Repentant, forgiven, and free of sin through faith, not works.

The above underlined confirms my suspicion that you don't practice a particular religion/denomination or even go to church. It explains your current "I don't care-not-my-problem" abortion stance.

2. What is up with this?
Arguing with you people is like arguing with women. Nearly pointless.

Having a meaningful debate or discussion with you on abortion is pointless. Nobody is going to take you seriously.
 

traelo

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
1. From your "New Member Introduction" post:

The above underlined confirms my suspicion that you don't practice a particular religion/denomination or even go to church. It explains your current "I don't care-not-my-problem" abortion stance.
He also is around Portland, which is one of the most liberal, progressive cities in the country. No wonder he is trying to convince us abortion doesn't matter.
 

RedLagoon

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
Yes, when a mother loves her child it is exactly as you say, among the more beautiful aspects of God's creation. But when a prospective mother does not want her child, and wants what the world has to offer, better not to be born to such as these. But we are still arguing for the world here, and I am not interested in that.

Of course I don't believe the lies of pro-abortion folks, and yes of course they are liars. They learned from their father the devil. But the world is what it is and I have no interest in these issues or political debates for the sake of the world. God's Kingdom only.

So what's your point in replying here then?
 

carnaby

Sparrow
Other Christian
Do not argue or mind read
Not going to bother answering your post for a couple of reasons.

1. From your "New Member Introduction" post:

The above underlined confirms my suspicion that you don't practice a particular religion/denomination or even go to church. It explains your current "I don't care-not-my-problem" abortion stance.

2. What is up with this?

Having a meaningful debate or discussion with you on abortion is pointless. Nobody is going to take you seriously.
1. I was baptized into the ICOC in 2006 and left about 2 years ago as our spiritual paths parted ways. I am a Christian. Brick and mortar churches, with the apparent exception of the Orthodox churches, inevitably become corrupted. Not interested anymore.

2. Because you are arguing from your soul and not your spirit. The soul is feminine and easily swayed by emotion while the spirit is masculine. Not meant as an insult.
He also is around Portland, which is one of the most liberal, progressive cities in the country. No wonder he is trying to convince us abortion doesn't matter.
I am extremely right wing.
So what's your point in replying here then?
Because so many Christians are lost in the world. But then that is the nature of the crowd.
 
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