The ( almost 100% ) pro vegan diet documentary, " The Game Changers"

Goni

Woodpecker

Before analysing or talking about this, I suggest you guys to watch it.

Normally it is an entirely propaganda documentary but the sports people interviewed here are not some unknowns but champions on their leagues.

Also what needs to be strongly stated in here is that the documentary purposely puts in the same line and equalises processed meat of burgers and meat balls with organic meat, eggs, cheese and milk.

They also advocate for an entirely 100% vegetarian diet.

Anyway watch it and give your thoughts .
 

kel

Ostrich
Shawn Baker among others talked about it when it came out a couple years ago.

I was vegan for years because I didn't want to kill animals and I took the factoid about it being better for the environment at face value. The latter is just utterly wrong and in terms of sheer number of animals you'll end up killing more if you try to avoid it.

But, this documentary is about health, I think. Call me crazy, but I'm sticking with my species appropriate diet. Even when I was vegan I didn't believe it was the healthiest way to live (though I did think it was relatively healthy, which is wrong). The modern, industrialized diet is mostly vegan (80%+ of what people ingest is vegan) and has been increasing over the years.
 

r3d

Sparrow
I watched it and it's certainly fascinating.

However, I can't help but feel there is more to the story. If simply going vegan/vegetarian would give athletes an edge, I believe every single one would be vegan by now. In this fiercely competitive domain with big money to be made it can't be that easy. It's not like they lack willpower or discipline.

Maybe some people react better than others to such a diet. Or they had a lowkey bad reactions to meat and only reached their full potential once they avoided it.

All speculative ofcourse.
 

Goni

Woodpecker
I watched it and it's certainly fascinating.

However, I can't help but feel there is more to the story. If simply going vegan/vegetarian would give athletes an edge, I believe every single one would be vegan by now. In this fiercely competitive domain with big money to be made it can't be that easy. It's not like they lack willpower or discipline.

Maybe some people react better than others to such a diet. Or they had a lowkey bad reactions to meat and only reached their full potential once they avoided it.

All speculative ofcourse.
That is the issue. The athletes talking there are not your average guy.

He one who took my attention was the 62 years old black guy who had the body of a 30 years old man and the same stamina.

The strongman guy on the other hand is far from being the strongest in the world.

You also have like 10 scientists talking there.

However, like you said besides speculation and an agenda, maybe some people do indeed better by being vegetarians.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
It's not about vegetarian vs omnivore, it's more about what kind of diet it is, quality and variety. The black American boxer is going to get better by eating asparagus instead of Doritos and fast food bugers.

This film is mostly propaganda, it advocates veganism as a lifestyle and has a lot of half truths. For example the Roman gladiators weren't fed vegetarian diets because it's a superior diet, they were fed the diets of slaves, because meat and fish were more expensive, and because most gladiators were dispensable, they died/got injured quickly and would be replaced by fresh bodies.

The Mongols overrun the Chinese in part because their meat-based diets were superior:

EuIU4r_XYAYMCA0.jpg

Most of the protagonists in that film are vegan zealots, the film is biased. This is a better picture of what a good diet should be, it is from the angle of heart health, goes into diet at the 29' mark, but the whole video is very much worth listening to:


Moral is, vegetable oils, fast carbs and other vegan stuff are crap, but good greens and legumes are a good part of a balanced diet, along with meat, seafood etc. Butter is much better than most vegetable oils (except for olive), a piece of salmon is more nutritious than a peanut butter sandwich, etc

The main health problem today with western men is metobolic disease and insulin/prediabetic issues, and while It is true that, overall, smarter vegetarians will have fewer health issues there, smarter omnivores who also eat fish, good quality meat and dairy, will fare even better.

The problem with films like these is that they stigmatize good omnivore diets as a dogma. Eating avodcadoes, spinash, broccoli, beans etc along with your steak is good, but eating vegan processed food is terrible.
 
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prendergast

Sparrow
Even though the documentary states that plants were very important thousands of years ago due to abundance and reliability, I don't think that is relevent anymore because of the amount of meat we are producing. If you are living in the western world you can buy as much meat as you can afford. There are like 100 million cows in the United States alone. Plenty to go around for everyone...

Meat (real beef, pork, chicken, fish) should be your main course, plants/vegetables as a side, and a little bit of fruit as nature's dessert.

I would assume that you could eat only meat and be just fine, just look at the Inuit. An all-meat diet is all that you need to be a successful athlete because it's high in protein. Vegetarians will tell you that plants/vegetables have micronutrients too so therefore meat isn't necessary but you need to eat so much more vegetables to get the same amount of protein AND the science isn't really clear as to how important these micronutrients actually are for overall well-being and how they work in conjunction with one another so I would be skeptical.

Buuuuuuuut... eating just meat is simply boring so might as well add some vegetables, fruits, and maybe some cheese/eggs/nuts to your diet as well.
 

Robert High Hawk

Kingfisher
I watched it and it's certainly fascinating.

However, I can't help but feel there is more to the story. If simply going vegan/vegetarian would give athletes an edge, I believe every single one would be vegan by now. In this fiercely competitive domain with big money to be made it can't be that easy. It's not like they lack willpower or discipline.

Maybe some people react better than others to such a diet. Or they had a lowkey bad reactions to meat and only reached their full potential once they avoided it.

All speculative ofcourse.


This is such a good point. Diet is an incredibly important factor in an athlete's success. At the highest levels ANY successful performance edge is immediately adopted across the sport.

If Veganism was so effective we'd see nothing but Vegan athletes
 

Zagor

Woodpecker
Veganism goes in the category of first world problems. Our civilisation is so rich that we can afford to indulge in these kind of debates. Go a thousand, hell a hundred years in the past and try living as a vegan.
 
And Meat is in reality Plant-based because when the Animals eat the grass they process it into nutrients that us Humans are better able to assimilate.

For example Iron and other crucial Vitamins or Minerals we cannot get without Meat.

Plus Vegans generally almost always end up malnourished and with health problems down the line.
 

Pdalion

Pigeon
Watched this on recommendation of a friend who's gone "plant based".
It felt like an extended advertisement with jump cuts between muscle bound grimacing people and vegetables.
Maybe there's something to this being possible in a first world society, but I'd rather not be a guinea pig for that.
Take a look at the 60 minutes documentary on Mt. Athos and the resultant health of the monks there. I think perhaps following the prescribed fasts of the church (essentially periods of veganism in the physical sense), is the best middle way between all these various diets
 
It's not about vegetarian vs omnivore, it's more about what kind of diet it is, quality and variety. The black American boxer is going to get better by eating asparagus instead of Doritos and fast food bugers.

This film is mostly propaganda, it advocates veganism as a lifestyle and has a lot of half truths. For example the Roman gladiators weren't fed vegetarian diets because it's a superior diet, they were fed the diets of slaves, because meat and fish were more expensive, and because most gladiators were dispensable, they died/got injured quickly and would be replaced by fresh bodies.

The Mongols overrun the Chinese in part because their meat-based diets were superior:

View attachment 29379

Most of the protagonists in that film are vegan zealots, the film is biased. This is a better picture of what a good diet should be, it is from the angle of heart health, goes into diet at the 29' mark, but the whole video is very much worth listening to:


Moral is, vegetable oils, fast carbs and other vegan stuff are crap, but good greens and legumes are a good part of a balanced diet, along with meat, seafood etc. Butter is much better than most vegetable oils (except for olive), a piece of salmon is more nutritious than a peanut butter sandwich, etc

The main health problem today with western men is metobolic disease and insulin/prediabetic issues, and while It is true that, overall, smarter vegetarians will have fewer health issues there, smarter omnivores who also eat fish, good quality meat and dairy, will fare even better.

The problem with films like these is that they stigmatize good omnivore diets as a dogma. Eating avodcadoes, spinash, broccoli, beans etc along with your steak is good, but eating vegan processed food is terrible.

I bet Henry the VIII wouldn't have nearly the health problems he did end up having if he cut out the excess carbs in his diet:

And included more cooked Vegetables in his diet. He was consuming so much sugar that he became very obese.

But it seems the mainstream is still sticking to the badness of Red Meat and Dairy, Eggs and Fish as being bad for Heart Health and so forth.
 

godfather dust

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I watched it and it's certainly fascinating.

However, I can't help but feel there is more to the story. If simply going vegan/vegetarian would give athletes an edge, I believe every single one would be vegan by now. In this fiercely competitive domain with big money to be made it can't be that easy. It's not like they lack willpower or discipline.

Maybe some people react better than others to such a diet. Or they had a lowkey bad reactions to meat and only reached their full potential once they avoided it.

All speculative ofcourse.
There's several good videos explaining why this documentary is junk.

In regards to the athletes, I forget which scientist explained this but apparently the athletes depicted in almost every case had a brief performance spike, likely due to cutting over processed food out of the diet, followed by a decline out of their prime/high level performance in their sport.

The documentary was not a good faith look into whether or not veganism is healthy or good for athletes. Rather, it was produced with the intent to convince people veganism is healthy, which lead to extreme cherry picking and presenting one side of an issue.
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
The establishment has spent the last several decades convincing men to avoid eating beef and eggs because they are "unhealthy". And yet the reality is that a diet based around beef and eggs is exactly what makes men strong and healthy. I challenge any man to lift weights, eat a pound of beef and six eggs a day (along with some basic fruits and vegs and enough carbs to support your workouts from rice, potatoes and oats) and then tell me you don't feel healthier and stronger than you ever have in your life.

The idea that men shouldn't be eating these ultra-nutritious and nourishing foods is (like pretty much everything else that the establishment has said and done for the last few decades) a malicious and intentional lie that is specifically designed to sabotage you. They literally want you to be sick and weak, which is why they are telling you to eat plants and bugs. Do not listen to them. Do not fall for their clever propaganda (the film featured in this thread being the perfect example). These people are professional liars and their only purpose in life is to cause people like you harm by influencing you to do foolish things that go against your well-being.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Whole-Food, Plant-Based here since 9/17. Don't knock it until you try it (especially if you have a family history of heart disease)! :like:

The merits (or lack thereof) of this film have been debated in other RVF threads already. I assume it is coming up again because the film recently became available for free on YouTube.

Unfortunately, the full Rogan #1393 episode has been deleted from YouTube, but here's a clip showing "Game Changers" producer James Wilks destroying skeptic Chris Kresser on Rogan's show on the subject of protein quality/availability. Wilks got Kresser to admit he was wrong multiple times on several subjects covered in the movie.

 

get2choppaaa

Pelican
Whole-Food, Plant-Based here since 9/17. Don't knock it until you try it (especially if you have a family history of heart disease)! :like:

The merits (or lack thereof) of this film have been debated in other RVF threads already. I assume it is coming up again because the film recently became available for free on YouTube.

Unfortunately, the full Rogan #1393 episode has been deleted from YouTube, but here's a clip showing "Game Changers" producer James Wilks destroying skeptic Chris Kresser on Rogan's show on the subject of protein quality/availability. Wilks got Kresser to admit he was wrong multiple times on several subjects covered in the movie.

The bigger point is that the vegan guy says meat causes cancer.

When combined with vegetables the carcinogen effects are negated.

The vegan guy also gets minor technicalities correct but is too wrapped up in his pitch to see the overarching point that vegetable only diets are shit for protein and active lifestyles.

Also the people who made this movie own a pea protein company.... So there's that.
 

BasedBaker

Sparrow
Whole-Food, Plant-Based here since 9/17. Don't knock it until you try it (especially if you have a family history of heart disease)! :like:

The merits (or lack thereof) of this film have been debated in other RVF threads already. I assume it is coming up again because the film recently became available for free on YouTube.

Unfortunately, the full Rogan #1393 episode has been deleted from YouTube, but here's a clip showing "Game Changers" producer James Wilks destroying skeptic Chris Kresser on Rogan's show on the subject of protein quality/availability. Wilks got Kresser to admit he was wrong multiple times on several subjects covered in the movie.

As BAP would say, Poast Fizik.
 

BasedBaker

Sparrow
That's a good-looking black forest cake in your av there!

I bet Henry VIII would have appreciated...
Thank you. Baking is a hobby of mine and that was one of my favorites recently. It's actually a very simple but a little time consuming and requires some ingredients that might not be on your shelf currently, but aren't single use items and have a long shelf life so I'd recommend not letting that deter you if you want to try to give it a go. I used a hybrid of these two recipes and to be honest I can't remember exactly what I pulled from each. But here are the two and if you decide to go for it you will not be disappointed!

Sorry to diverge from the topic everyone.


 
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