The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

Louis IX

Pelican
Just curious, what is your thought process behind buying Bitcoin right now as opposed to wait until it has pulled down again?
L0Because I'm thinking the opposite and it's about time to cash out soon. Seems very late into the game.
I am used to invest in physical gold these last 2-3 years ; should it be bullion coins or numismatics.
I have heard millions of people saying "dont but any coin now ; the market is too high" or " You wait until the price goes down " ; " you have missed the train".

In my relatively uneducated opinion this is very presumptuous to believe that you can predict the market. I have ignored those people refraining me from investing and bought gold regularly .

At first it stagnated then we reached a record high during the first pandemic wave . I sold my superfluous stocks for profit and start building back again a little stack.

Regarding bitcoin I am a noob. I don't even understand what is mining or Blockchain and to be fair I don't care much. I just know that bitcoin and Ethereum are very liquid and that there is a real interest from a lot of people. Especially young ones. This makes them real assets so it s worth having a look at it.

I will simply put 80% in bitcoin and 20% in Ethereum a bit like a cautious investor would do for gold and silver. I will not go into new coins or check ICOs etc it is not my range of competence.

The bitcoin price is probably record high now but it is irrelevant . Just put in every month and make an average . Maybe all next year it will to down and it will lower your average before the next bump and still allow you to profit once you decide to sell.

It all depends what you want to do. Scalping with high amounts / trading for speculation or just be in the train. I will personally use it for diversification and insurance against a possible devaluation of fiat / ban of cash. If I can ever hit the jackpot I will cash in.

The only thing i haven't worked out yet is the exit strategy. That's why I put a small amount at start to get familiar with the system.
The main minus so far seems to be the incredible volatility as well.
Just curious, what is your thought process behind buying Bitcoin right now as opposed to wait until it has pulled down again?

Because I'm thinking the opposite and it's about time to cash out soon. Seems very late into the game.
 
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Deepdiver

Crow
Gold Member
Can you use Uniswap to buy BTC with cash?
Since Uniswap says they can swap any ERC20 tokens wrapped BTC might be an option...

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/wrapped-bitcoin/

About Wrapped Bitcoin​

Wrapped Bitcoin price today is $18,231.31 USD with a 24-hour trading volume of $51,570,946 USD. Wrapped Bitcoin is down 0.63% in the last 24 hours. The current CoinMarketCap ranking is #14, with a market cap of $2,270,895,012 USD. It has a circulating supply of 124,560 WBTC coins and a max. supply of 21,000,000 WBTC coins. The top exchanges for trading in Wrapped Bitcoin are currently Binance, Huobi Global, Binance.KR, OKEx, and HitBTC. You can find others listed on our crypto exchanges page.

What Is Wrapped Bitcoin [WBTC]?​

Wrapped Bitcoin is a tokenized version of Bitcoin (BTC) that runs on the Ethereum (ETH) blockchain.
WBTC is compliant with ERC-20 — the basic compatibility standard of the Ethereum blockchain — allowing it to be fully integrated into the latter’s ecosystem of decentralized exchanges, crypto lending services, prediction markets and other ERC-20-enabled decentralized finance (DeFi) applications.
WBTC is also backed by Bitcoin at a 1:1 ratio via a network of automatically monitored merchants and custodians, ensuring that its price is pegged to Bitcoin at all times and allows users to transfer liquidity between the BTC and the ETH networks in a decentralized and autonomous manner.
Wrapped Bitcoin was first announced on October 26, 2018, and officially launched on January 31, 2019.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Since Uniswap says they can swap any ERC20 tokens wrapped BTC might be an option...

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/wrapped-bitcoin/

About Wrapped Bitcoin​

Wrapped Bitcoin price today is $18,231.31 USD with a 24-hour trading volume of $51,570,946 USD. Wrapped Bitcoin is down 0.63% in the last 24 hours. The current CoinMarketCap ranking is #14, with a market cap of $2,270,895,012 USD. It has a circulating supply of 124,560 WBTC coins and a max. supply of 21,000,000 WBTC coins. The top exchanges for trading in Wrapped Bitcoin are currently Binance, Huobi Global, Binance.KR, OKEx, and HitBTC. You can find others listed on our crypto exchanges page.

What Is Wrapped Bitcoin [WBTC]?​

Wrapped Bitcoin is a tokenized version of Bitcoin (BTC) that runs on the Ethereum (ETH) blockchain.
WBTC is compliant with ERC-20 — the basic compatibility standard of the Ethereum blockchain — allowing it to be fully integrated into the latter’s ecosystem of decentralized exchanges, crypto lending services, prediction markets and other ERC-20-enabled decentralized finance (DeFi) applications.
WBTC is also backed by Bitcoin at a 1:1 ratio via a network of automatically monitored merchants and custodians, ensuring that its price is pegged to Bitcoin at all times and allows users to transfer liquidity between the BTC and the ETH networks in a decentralized and autonomous manner.
Wrapped Bitcoin was first announced on October 26, 2018, and officially launched on January 31, 2019.
Seems complicated. I'll stick to ATMs.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Is there a BTC ATM locator?
Not a central one, but this website is reliable and often tells you what their verification requirements are:
Coinstar Coinme claims they are safer than ATMs could be a self-serving claim but they are now in my local grocery stores - go figure.

Looks like this requires KYC.
 
I mentioned this in the Ecom, but on @redbeard's suggestion i'll mention here as well.

I met an early investor in Bitcoin (mined bitcoin on his laptop) a couple days ago (he owns a business that builds bitcoin wallets......we had a long conversation, and I asked the question that was on my mind:

Me: "Where do you see Bitcoin in 10 years time as far as marketcap?"

Early investor: "millions."

Me: "So you see it coming down?"

Him: "I thought you meant price....I see Bitcoin hitting $5 million a coin if not more."

Obviously take any predictions with a grain of salt (early investor or not), just thought it was fun to talk to someone who has been in the space since the beginning. Hopium.....but who knows what the world will be like with a $5million Bitcoin.....could be scary.
 
I met an early investor in Bitcoin (mined bitcoin on his laptop) a couple days ago (he owns a business that builds bitcoin wallets......we had a long conversation, and I asked the question that was on my mind:

Me: "Where do you see Bitcoin in 10 years time as far as marketcap?"

Early investor: "millions."

Me: "So you see it coming down?"

Him: "I thought you meant price....I see Bitcoin hitting $5 million a coin if not more."

Obviously take any predictions with a grain of salt (early investor or not), just thought it was fun to talk to someone who has been in the space since the beginning. Hopium.....but who knows what the world will be like with a $5million Bitcoin.....could be scary.

Yeah, and I would rather take advice from someone who has actually made a lot of money from it and has been in the circle for a decade.
I heard about Bitcoin before most people and got really excited and wanted to invest but young as I was I decided to listen to the boomers instead who knew/know very little about it and told me not to invest and that's why I'm not yet a millionaire. Not making that mistake again.

A lot of really smart and rich crypto guys who have been right before says this and have made some good arguments as to why it will skyrocket again so I know which advice I will be listening to.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
I switched over most of my diversified assets towards BTC in the last couple months. I'm still a bit diversified but now about 80% into BTC compared to like 40% before. I gotta give props to redbeard and JJG for helping me re-evaluate my position towards BTC as someone who started getting into crypto during the altcoin explosion of 2017. Although I wish I knew what I know now back then, I am grateful I am able to learn this stuff now rather than 2023.

Now time to just HODL and buy the dips. 2021 is going to be wild.
Thanks for reporting back, KOL.

I am glad that you have figured out some way to tweak your approach that you believe will be more comfortable to you in the coming years.

Of course, there are no guarantees, and surely in the past day or two, several shitcoins have been pumping.. and who knows if such pumpenings will last, or if altcoin season might come, as many shitcoiners have been hoping for such altcoin season for quite a while and they largely consider it to be a kind of play off of bitcoin's various pumps - and sometimes can be quite difficult to know which if any shitcoins you want to invest in terms of will they out perform bitcoin or not.

Surely, as you mentioned, buying on dips and HODL are great strategies, and of course, employing some kind of reasonable DCA can be quite helpful too... at least in terms of attempting to meet your investment goals - and sometimes it can take 10, 20 or more years for guys to reach various investment accumulation targets, whether we are referring to BTC or other assets that may be in your chosen investment portfolio... that may change through the years, too.

With my own personal investments into BTC, of course, I was in a bit of a different situation because when I got started in BTC in late 2013, I had largely already established an overall investment portfolio (at that time) that did not have any BTC, but I had figured was at a high enough level that it could largely sustain me in the event that I were to have to totally live off of the value of those funds.

So, the dilemma that I then faced was to determine how much to put into bitcoin and how to go about doing it while learning about bitcoin at the same time - which I largely reached my accumulation goals by the end of 2014 and pivoted into more of a maintenance mode in 2015 and 2016 - even though I did still engage in lower levels of ongoing DCA accumulation during 2015 and 2016 - that: 1) helped me to hone-in upon my own ideas about what I thought would be a prudent amount to invest into bitcoin (which for me ended up being to target 10% as my investment allocation target) 2) based on subsequently and relatively low BTC prices in 2015 and 2016, largely caused my BTC allocation to go up a bit beyond what I had initially thought prudent and caused me to invest about 13.5%-ish into bitcoin rather than my earlier assessment of 10%, 3) the subsequent rise in BTC prices in 2017, and real failure of BTC prices to correct back down in any place near my average investment price, largely caused my BTC allocation to end up outstripping the value of the vast majority of my other quasi-liquid investments and even during the worst of the dip BTC prices of $3,124 in December 2017 and $3,850 in March 2020, the value of my BTC largely remained greater than my other investments - and 4) my keeping of my value in BTC were allocation decisions that I chose to let ride based on my own thinking about the whole matter about my situation and my other investments rather than choosing to diversify (or reallocate) out of BTC.. which decision to largely stay in BTC and to take some other downside risk precautions, so far, has been very, very good to me both financially and psychologically.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
While I'm not familiar with these wallets, you should be able to figure out if the wallet is best for you based on what features it has. The most important feature is custody - do these wallets give you a recovery phrase that can be ported into other wallets? If not, then it's strictly custodial, and you don't really own those coins.

Here's a lengthy comparison table of some of the most popular mobile wallets:
My preference is clearly Samourai, because it's non-custodial, runs Tor, lets you connect to your own node, and of course has the best CoinJoin implementation available today.

I like that bitcoin wallet comparison website, redbeard. I will likely try one or more of them out based on that information. I was looking at making some changes, or at least experimenting with some wallet matters, so that information will likely be helpful in my going down that path.

Also, I noticed other helpful links in that bitcoinqna.com website including: comparing nodes, information about lighting network, information about coinjoin, debunking bitcoin myths, basic bitcoin information, reference to bitcoin articles and other educational bitcoin-related information.

Great to hear.

It's not easy to admit you're wrong on the internet. Hats off.

Additionally, it's easy for outsiders to look at people like @JayJuanGee and I constantly railing against altcoins...and write off what we're saying, rationalizing that we're just toxic bitcoiners, trying to pump our bags.

However there is much truth in what we say, and the only reason we're so passionate about it is that we love Bitcoin. And while I'm not sure about JJG, I know I've made a lot of mistakes that cost me a lot of money, all because I dabbled in altcoins. We speak from experience!

I agree with your various points, redbeard - except on a personal level, I would proclaim that I have not really lost very much money by dabbling in shitcoins. I have lost money by making various other mistakes in terms of ways that I secured my coins and keeping a bit too much value on exchanges and also through some in-person trades that did not go well. Sometimes it is possible to learn from the mistakes of others, and surely some mistakes are going to be made including decisions about how much risk to engage in by supporting the ecosystem or attempting to learn about the ecosystem by supporting in various systems... and for me, I had some exchanges that I likely left too much value therein... but I still believe that I learned from such interactions.

Actually, I probably can relate to some guys wanting to experiment with shitcoins too, even though there could be some heavy trade offs in engaging in such, especially if guys fail and refuse to build value in bitcoin when they might be dabbling and experimenting too much in shitcoins... so maybe I am not so much against some of that kind of experimentation - if the allocation is kept low and the guy(s) proportion their risk in reasonable ways - even though I have been quite vociferous through the years about guys attempting to pump shitcoin nonsense in this thread - and surely sometimes they have been allowed to get away with it.. and it can sometimes be quite distracting to really attempting to stay topical and try to avoid some of the slippery slope and fuzzy logic that might happen when too much shitcoin discussion is allowed or trying to suggest that all cryptos are somehow related to bitcoin.. blah blah blah.. .. at least in my opinion that just gets to be too much in terms of trying to attempt to stay somewhat focused, at least in this thread.. there are other threads (or threads can be made) to discuss shitcoins or other topics that are more friendly to intermingling bitcoin into shitcoin discussions... which ends up being discussions that are more about the shitcoins rather than about bitcoin.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
My gut tells me institutional involvement is the key theme for this bull run, if only because there is very little hype about bitcoin via the masses. I mean if one recalls back in 2017, literally everyone was talking about crypto. It seems like this time that's not the case, I would say the parabolic stage is when the dumb money moves into any asset class. right now, this seems like a slow move. I mean a move from 10k where btc was at for a long time to 20k is only a doubling when back in 2017 it went up 10x or more. I suspect at 50k btc is when the dumb money moves in and all you will hear about is that it is the best performing asset class of 2021 somewhere around 75-100k is probably when the price gets a bit frothy and you might want to start to sell.

I agree with your overall points, bacon... in part because we have not even reached 2017 comparison, yet. We are in late 2016 and reaching 2017 because it was not until mid-February 2017 that the previous ATH from December 2013 of $1,163 was actually broken, and then there was a dip in mid-March that did not bring BTC prices over its previous ATH of $1,163 until about three weeks later into the second week of April.. and gradually continuing UPwardly, never really to come close to $1,163 again - even though there were a lot of technical analyst pundits who ongoingly proclaimed that $1,163 support had to be revisited.. which ended up that such imperative was NOT the case.. and likely shows that they have some incomplete tools in their bitcoin analysis in thinking that certain price moves have to happen.. blah blah blah.. heard it several times..


If this happens and I suspect it will come at the deciding point of the election fraud it could decimate the crypto trade.

When you, Mountaineer, are referring to "crypto" you also mean bitcoin right?

I doubt that your fears of some kind of decimation of bitcoin is well founded.. and hopefully you are not failing/refusing to prepare for UP prices in BTC because you fear the possibility of down (or decimation) of BTC. Part of your premise is to expect a total internet blockage, which surely is possible, but may NOT completely decimate bitcoin... but hey you are entitled to your own views and how much weight to give to various Armageddon scenarios... I am not going to proclaim that Armageddon scenarios are not likely because we have seen, especially this year how quickly certain down vulnerability scenarios could play out including witnessing how vulnerable various supply chains are.

In terms of BTC and your choice to invest (including considering how much and how) you should prepare for either price direction to the extent that works for your particular situation including considering your cashflow, your other investments, your view of bitcoin as compared to other investment options, your risk tolerance, your timeline and your time, skills and abilities to plan, learn and/or tweak your strategy, allocation or plan from time to time and whether to trade too.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
If you have USDT, USDC or any other stable coin on Uniswap, you might be able exchange it to wrapped BTC, e.g. wBTC. But going directly from fiat to BTC? No, you can't.

I hope that we are not even going to attempt to suggest that wrapped BTC is anything even close to actual BTC.

Do you think there's chance for a 20-30% pull back at this point?

There are always chances for BTC price corrections of 20-30% or more, even during a bullish uptrend or an exponential UPpity period.

Historically, we have seen a lot of those levels of BTC price corrections.... yet currently, it seems to me that getting back to 4 digits would be quite difficult, but surely not impossible.

By the way, the 208-week moving average is currently a wee bit above $7,100, so historically the BTC price has not really gone below those levels, and that would be during large correction periods rather than during UPwards BTC price movements.

**By the way, many traditional analysts use the 200-week moving average, but I have been monitoring the 208 week moving average to be more conservative for my own purposes.

Pure speculation - and this thing has had a history of ups and downs - but the furthest it slides at this point (especially because of last night into today's action) is back to the 16s.
You may be correct Blade Runner, but larger BTC price corrections are possible at any time - even during a bullrun.. and sure, you can place whatever odds that you wish upon such bet that sub $16k would not happen, but it is likely not zero as you seem to be suggesting. A 20% correction would bring BTC prices down to $15,200 (using $18,977 as the local top calculating price), and a 30% correction would bring BTC prices down to $13,300.

Again, I am not saying impossible, we saw all kinds of corrections at those levels in 2016 and 2017, and they are even on the chart during other bullruns - and sure you could proclaim that this time is different, and I would have my doubts.. corrections can be quick.. and take only a few weeks to play out, or they could take a bit longer than that to play out and still keep us in a bull trend. I don't claim to know anything, but I do prefer to be prepared both psychologically and financially for such possibilities, even if they are a bit beyond expectations because we frequently see the unexpected in bitcoin in both price directions... which one is next, I really do not know - even though I also appreciate the current upwards BTC price pressures that have been playing out since early September.

I expected resistance in the $12ks, $13,880 and then $17,250, and largely the BTC price blew past each of those resistance prices in the past month and largely any correction might even be welcomed, and personally, I could give two shits if such a large correction were to happen, because I kind of enjoy witnessing the tears of bears, no coiners, fence sitters, bitcoin naysayers, and shitcoin pumpeners which tears largely come from BTC over performance that goes UPpity beyond expectations... but such continued up performance is far from guaranteed... By the way, we are currently on our 8th weekly green candle in a row.. sure we have seen 7 green candles on 3 or 4 occasions in the past few years, yet there has only been 1 other instance of 8 green candles in a row and I was not able to see more than 8 green candles in a row.. but I only went back 4 years.. so there might have been some earlier examples..
 

SvenTuga

Sparrow
Gold Member
I hope that we are not even going to attempt to suggest that wrapped BTC is anything even close to actual BTC.

Of course not, I was merely answering his question.

If you read my post before that, where I'm shilling Nash Exchange, I do mentioned that with wrapped BTC you have to trust a third party with the custody of BTC, which opens a door for hackers to exploit. With Nash you are trading real BTC decentralised, a first in the industry, all the while keeping custody of your coins and keys.
 

Mountaineer

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I doubt that your fears of some kind of decimation of bitcoin is well founded.. and hopefully you are not failing/refusing to prepare for UP prices in BTC because you fear the possibility of down (or decimation) of BTC. Part of your premise is to expect a total internet blockage, which surely is possible, but may NOT completely decimate bitcoin... but hey you are entitled to your own views and how much weight to give to various Armageddon scenarios... I am not going to proclaim that Armageddon scenarios are not likely because we have seen, especially this year how quickly certain down vulnerability scenarios could play out including witnessing how vulnerable various supply chains are.

In terms of BTC and your choice to invest (including considering how much and how) you should prepare for either price direction to the extent that works for your particular situation including considering your cashflow, your other investments, your view of bitcoin as compared to other investment options, your risk tolerance, your timeline and your time, skills and abilities to plan, learn and/or tweak your strategy, allocation or plan from time to time and whether to trade too.
My gut tells me that BTC is a scam of the century. A test run of digital currency our overlords have intended. Meanwhile they are buying up every tangible asset they can. Precious metals especially. When they roll out their world digital currency cryptos like BTC will stand on their way giving them huge incentive to destroy it or take over via legislation.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
My gut tells me that BTC is a scam of the century. A test run of digital currency our overlords have intended. Meanwhile they are buying up every tangible asset they can. Precious metals especially. When they roll out their world digital currency cryptos like BTC will stand on their way giving them huge incentive to destroy it or take over via legislation.
How would they do this?
 

Talus

Pigeon
BTC depends on the electrical and internet infrastructure. This is it's only crutch, a rather large one. Unlikely it will be yanked out, but who knows what a network of billionaire psychopaths will do.

Edit: Obviously they are more likely to just buy in and take the profits, but who knows. The underground bunkers conspiracy makes one wonder..
 
Thanks for reporting back, KOL.

I am glad that you have figured out some way to tweak your approach that you believe will be more comfortable to you in the coming years.

Of course, there are no guarantees, and surely in the past day or two, several shitcoins have been pumping.. and who knows if such pumpenings will last, or if altcoin season might come, as many shitcoiners have been hoping for such altcoin season for quite a while and they largely consider it to be a kind of play off of bitcoin's various pumps - and sometimes can be quite difficult to know which if any shitcoins you want to invest in terms of will they out perform bitcoin or not.

Surely, as you mentioned, buying on dips and HODL are great strategies, and of course, employing some kind of reasonable DCA can be quite helpful too... at least in terms of attempting to meet your investment goals - and sometimes it can take 10, 20 or more years for guys to reach various investment accumulation targets, whether we are referring to BTC or other assets that may be in your chosen investment portfolio... that may change through the years, too.

With my own personal investments into BTC, of course, I was in a bit of a different situation because when I got started in BTC in late 2013, I had largely already established an overall investment portfolio (at that time) that did not have any BTC, but I had figured was at a high enough level that it could largely sustain me in the event that I were to have to totally live off of the value of those funds.

So, the dilemma that I then faced was to determine how much to put into bitcoin and how to go about doing it while learning about bitcoin at the same time - which I largely reached my accumulation goals by the end of 2014 and pivoted into more of a maintenance mode in 2015 and 2016 - even though I did still engage in lower levels of ongoing DCA accumulation during 2015 and 2016 - that: 1) helped me to hone-in upon my own ideas about what I thought would be a prudent amount to invest into bitcoin (which for me ended up being to target 10% as my investment allocation target) 2) based on subsequently and relatively low BTC prices in 2015 and 2016, largely caused my BTC allocation to go up a bit beyond what I had initially thought prudent and caused me to invest about 13.5%-ish into bitcoin rather than my earlier assessment of 10%, 3) the subsequent rise in BTC prices in 2017, and real failure of BTC prices to correct back down in any place near my average investment price, largely caused my BTC allocation to end up outstripping the value of the vast majority of my other quasi-liquid investments and even during the worst of the dip BTC prices of $3,124 in December 2017 and $3,850 in March 2020, the value of my BTC largely remained greater than my other investments - and 4) my keeping of my value in BTC were allocation decisions that I chose to let ride based on my own thinking about the whole matter about my situation and my other investments rather than choosing to diversify (or reallocate) out of BTC.. which decision to largely stay in BTC and to take some other downside risk precautions, so far, has been very, very good to me both financially and psychologically.
DCA definitely seems like a good plan. Buying the dips is often tricky to time in practice.

That's great that you were able to have such foresight back then. Now, it seems almost a "no-brainer" that Bitcoin is here to stay, but back then the sentiment was not as strong in general, although individuals definitely saw the value in it. Seeing all the institutional money moving into Bitcoin and financial bigshots talking about it is a promising sign, and even though in many ways it feels like a much later stage than 2015, and even 2017, it still seems early relative to its potential.
 

Guy80

Sparrow
My gut tells me that BTC is a scam of the century. A test run of digital currency our overlords have intended. Meanwhile they are buying up every tangible asset they can. Precious metals especially. When they roll out their world digital currency cryptos like BTC will stand on their way giving them huge incentive to destroy it or take over via legislation.

scam or not - if it made me a million/billionaire that I cashed out on then I'd be ok with it...you'd have to be stupid to sit on it if you made millions/billions (xxxxx$ profit)
 
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