The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

I was an early adopter of Bitcoin and am kicking myself now because as much as a fanboy as I was, I didn't put the time/effort into really investing in it the way I should have. That being said, I got in so early that I was a hairs width away from taking a position of what would now now be a ludicrous sum of money (I'm wondering if there is a me in a parallel universe who is ludicrously rich). That being said, who knows what the ride would have been like to multimillionaire status (assuming I held onto it which is a big IF) and the roller coaster ride it would have been had invested in it just half as much as I talked about it. I'm happy now with the small holding I've managed to hold onto, but it could have been so much more. Well, I am back on the train now and I think it's time to stop having regret and just follow the school of fish.

As far as Peter Schiff, he is a gold bug and he's always talking up his book. I see some of the arguments against Bitcoin, but I think now that the big institutions are bought in, it's basically a lock now that it's going to generally be on the incline. My main con against Bitcoin is that if the government doesn't like it, I believe they can find ways to stop it or make it almost impossible to use.
 
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Tactician

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Speculative Attack!

Can you imagine when treasury bonds start selling off (may have started!) & people pile the money into Bitcoin? The govt will have to PRINT more to buy those bonds to keep yields low. What's that? More printing? That'll just send Bitcoin higher.

The only options besides printing to suppress bond yields are 1. Capital controls, or 2. Jack up interest rates & cause a recession.

Personally, I believe they know this & are desperately working on Quantum Computers to break Btc's elliptic curve private keys. This is a finicky mess & won't be accomplished anytime soon as each additional qubit is Harder to add than the last! (Note: Does not apply to annealing-type QCs, but these suck at factoring primes.)

Bitcoin is such a superior form of money, they're literally wrestling with the laws of nature just to keep us on the fiat plantation.
 

Arado

Pelican
Gold Member
I invested in precious metals over 10 years ago. I can now say in hind sight that these are basically the controlled opposition of my time. It becomes very clear when you look at these assets through the filter of Bitcoin. Gold was 1500-1800 USD after the global financial crisis. Hit a peak of just over 2k USD more recently after over 10 years. Bitcoin went from less than $1 to over 50k and looking to go over 100k USD this year. I don't even think gold has kept your purchasing power like gold advocates have told us over the last decade. A person's residential property has gone up several times more than gold in the same time frame. You could say that property has protected purchasing power far better than gold thanks to inflation.

I think the cat's out of the bag now. 10 years ago you could tell people including myself to invest in assets like gold/silver but even dumb Zoomers know this is going nowhere. I've noticed gold advocates like Peter Schiff change their narrative from gold will make you wealthy to preserving your wealth (if you are already rich). Therefore Bitcoin and crypto will eat the lunch of gold and precious metals until something big happens like quantum computers can break sha256 encryption. Gold will go to $2500 in 2021 and you'll hear gold bugs patting themselves on the shoulder whilst property, tech stocks, and crypto prices soar far higher. I think investing in precious metals is very much in the rear view, it only looks attractive when holding cash is your only option.
I'm a bit skeptical of this. BTC is all the rage these days and it's being heavily promoted by paragons of free expression like Jack Dorsey, plus it can be tracked easier than gold transactions. It's a superior form of money than anything else, but I'm still concerned about whether it can withstand catastrophic geopolitical and technological conflict, reordering of the world order, or massive technological disruption and/or attacks. OTOH, it's the only thing keeping Andrew Torba afloat so that's a positive.

Gold has underperformed the last decade, but it has done pretty well as an inflation hedge since we got off the gold standard. It's only because of the paper manipulation that it's been held down and it can't happen forever. Check the silver squeeze thread - the metals are likely to break out at some point, though timing is always difficult.

 
I'm a bit skeptical of this. BTC is all the rage these days and it's being heavily promoted by paragons of free expression like Jack Dorsey, plus it can be tracked easier than gold transactions. It's a superior form of money than anything else, but I'm still concerned about whether it can withstand catastrophic geopolitical and technological conflict, reordering of the world order, or massive technological disruption and/or attacks. OTOH, it's the only thing keeping Andrew Torba afloat so that's a positive.

Gold has underperformed the last decade, but it has done pretty well as an inflation hedge since we got off the gold standard. It's only because of the paper manipulation that it's been held down and it can't happen forever. Check the silver squeeze thread - the metals are likely to break out at some point, though timing is always difficult.


It seems that corporations are moving to hold money in the form of BTC instead of fiat or doing cash buy backs. They used to hold cash but everyone now realised money printer go brrr so they keep as little cash on hand as possible which leads to bankruptcy and bail outs.

It's not just jack Dorsey it's all the other companies, hedge funds, banks that are moving towards it using it to game inflation in the money supply. Jack Dorsey was just vocal about it, everyone else FUD'd Bitcoin (Jamie Diamond) or misdirected people to DOGE (Elon Musk) while they accumulated. There are numerous companies I've never even heard about putting BTC on their balance sheet.

Maybe Bitcoin becomes a way for government to further destroy any semblance of privacy and anonymity. Doesn't matter because Monero is a thing. Bitcoin has become the gold of our time and Monero is looking to be the end game store of value that can't be trifled with.

The monetary system won't be able to hold down prices much longer. I'd give it less than 10 years before it breaks and the price of everything shoots up. Precious metals will go up but not enough for non rich people to care.
 
It seems that corporations are moving to hold money in the form of BTC instead of fiat or doing cash buy backs. They used to hold cash but everyone now realised money printer go brrr so they keep as little cash on hand as possible which leads to bankruptcy and bail outs.

It's not just jack Dorsey it's all the other companies, hedge funds, banks that are moving towards it using it to game inflation in the money supply. Jack Dorsey was just vocal about it, everyone else FUD'd Bitcoin (Jamie Diamond) or misdirected people to DOGE (Elon Musk) while they accumulated. There are numerous companies I've never even heard about putting BTC on their balance sheet.

Maybe Bitcoin becomes a way for government to further destroy any semblance of privacy and anonymity. Doesn't matter because Monero is a thing. Bitcoin has become the gold of our time and Monero is looking to be the end game store of value that can't be trifled with.

The monetary system won't be able to hold down prices much longer. I'd give it less than 10 years before it breaks and the price of everything shoots up. Precious metals will go up but not enough for non rich people to care.
No Monero is tough to work with. You will not detect inflation bugs, which is completely a no go for any amount of serious wealth.
The best is Horizen. They have open ledger but you can send privately as well.

Again, you can use BTC anonymously if you know how / are determined etc. as good as you can use cash.
If you are watched by fbi and you handle cash it is also not private.
 

HKBhusal

Sparrow
No Monero is tough to work with. You will not detect inflation bugs, which is completely a no go for any amount of serious wealth.
The best is Horizen. They have open ledger but you can send privately as well.

Again, you can use BTC anonymously if you know how / are determined etc. as good as you can use cash.
If you are watched by fbi and you handle cash it is also not private.

How to use BTC anonymously in general? Cashing out peer to peer? What about deposits - crypto ATMS? Just trying to learn more about it myself.
 
How to use BTC anonymously in general? Cashing out peer to peer? What about deposits - crypto ATMS? Just trying to learn more about it myself.
For example. These are good points.
Further using coinjoins / wasabi in between, gambling with them, leverage exchange and gamble with them there, lending / putting into defi / putting into lightnig / cryptoswapping it for monero / horizen and back and what not.
But you should toss windows first.

But what you want to achieve? If you run big operations, you will get caught anyhow by other means much more likely.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
It seems that corporations are moving to hold money in the form of BTC instead of fiat or doing cash buy backs. They used to hold cash but everyone now realised money printer go brrr so they keep as little cash on hand as possible which leads to bankruptcy and bail outs.

It's not just jack Dorsey it's all the other companies, hedge funds, banks that are moving towards it using it to game inflation in the money supply. Jack Dorsey was just vocal about it, everyone else FUD'd Bitcoin (Jamie Diamond) or misdirected people to DOGE (Elon Musk) while they accumulated. There are numerous companies I've never even heard about putting BTC on their balance sheet.

Maybe Bitcoin becomes a way for government to further destroy any semblance of privacy and anonymity. Doesn't matter because Monero is a thing. Bitcoin has become the gold of our time and Monero is looking to be the end game store of value that can't be trifled with.

The monetary system won't be able to hold down prices much longer. I'd give it less than 10 years before it breaks and the price of everything shoots up. Precious metals will go up but not enough for non rich people to care.
I totally agree with this. The privacy coins like Monero are truly the only other altcoins that I ever even considered for a long term hold, though I can see speculating on things like Cardano or other projects with really smart innovators could do well off bitcoin's coattails during what is going to be a tremendous run. What privacy coins do you all think have a chance outside of Monero?

The summary is this: precious metals are low risk and will gain, but bitcoin in the bigger picture is not that much higher risk for unbelievably higher gain - not even on the same planet, and possibly solar system or galaxy.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
If you are watched by fbi and you handle cash it is also not private.
This is something that is also totally true and left out by all the "bitcoin critics". It's like all these retard "gotcha" boys haven't been paying attention when for the last 50 years the CTR at banks hasn't changed with inflation or common sense, the IRS invented this BS called "structuring" etc. Finally, try carrying even 10k cash on your person, on a plane, etc ... ha, as if that isn't a "risk."

Anyone who has gambled or gone to casinos (having made trips to the bank and considered the effects of winning/losing) realizes the childish game the government has been playing for years, and it's totally unconstitutional.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
This is something that is also totally true and left out by all the "bitcoin critics". It's like all these retard "gotcha" boys haven't been paying attention when for the last 50 years the CTR at banks hasn't changed with inflation or common sense, the IRS invented this BS called "structuring" etc. Finally, try carrying even 10k cash on your person, on a plane, etc ... ha, as if that isn't a "risk."

Anyone who has gambled or gone to casinos (having made trips to the bank and considered the effects of winning/losing) realizes the childish game the government has been playing for years, and it's totally unconstitutional.

I really like posts like this. Cryptocurrency is providing a mirror for how crazy the controls on cash and fiat are.

If you have more than 10k in domestic or foreign currency you can't cross a border with it or go through airport security with it. Each time to put it into or withdraw it from a bank you get reported to the treasury department. Each time you buy a car or other physical asset with it you are reported to the treasury department. Civil asset forfeiture means that if you have "excessive" amounts of cash on your person or in your car it can be seized during a police stop because it could be proceeds of a crime.

How is any of that an advantage over cryptocurrency?

Electronic fiat money is tracked and attached to your name already, and if the government/central bank looks at the price and says...whew the dollar price is getting too high or too low they can just decide to "print a few billion fiat" to issue to themselves or their buddies or the racially oppressed.

Even if someone doesn't buy crypto, just a thoughtful discussion on it with a person can be a 'red pill' on cash and electronic fiat. That is to say that the counter argument to "Crypto is too risky, fake, etc" is just an opening to ask "versus what? how risky, fake, and easy to manipulate is the currency that you are using now?"
 

Cervantes

Robin
I would gladly buy, if BTCs price would go down for once. I have some cash stashed in prepared for this moment. But no way I am going to buy when its price is that high.
You'll watch it like a hawk for the next 30 days. It will hit $60k, then "crash" to $55k and you'll "buy the dip" and save $5k per coin right?

Are you intending to day trade BTC? Because that is the only time that tight timing matters.

The way to think about this is to decide: is bitcoin going higher long term. (I personally think strongly that it will). If you think so then the right strategy is to take the total investment you are willing to make, divide it into 5, and then buy in 20% per week for 5 weeks. It protects you a little bit from buying in at a local maximum at the cost of likely buying in little higher overall.
 

Talus

Sparrow
What privacy coins do you all think have a chance outside of Monero?
GRIN and BEAM are two altcoins that run on the mimblewimble protocol. I'm not going to pretend like I know a whole lot about either of these currencies, but the basis of the mimblewimble protocol is 'blinding factors' that allow for confidential transactions. The mimblewimble chain itself functions in the same way as a Bitcoin coinjoin implementation. The mw protocol even keeps transaction amounts confidential.

Another pro about the mimblewimble protocol is that it was also published anonymously like the Bitcoin whitepaper. GRIN and BEAM are just implementations of the mw protocol. It's unlikely these will ever come close to overtaking Bitcoin, but in a Bitcoin dominated world, with an increasing presence of chain anaylsis, they could have a useful side roles.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
It's unlikely these will ever come close to overtaking Bitcoin, but in a Bitcoin dominated world, with an increasing presence of chain anaylsis, they could have a useful side roles.
I like "hedges" (not that this truly is) that can also work out both ways. As a gambler that's the only time one should hedge (lock profit and double win). In all seriousness, I'm looking for the run-up alongside bitcoin since I'm more in the camp of maximalists, but don't call myself that - understanding that different roles for different cryptos is likely and with complementarity. With the smaller players currently, the BTC momentum can take them to much higher % gains than BTC from this point, of course with the significant added risk.
 

Meraki

Sparrow
Just said the same thing to my dad who may finally get in. I thought I was late at 20, and am up over 100%. Just bought more at 50 & more ETH at 1300 & 1900....

it’s due for some sort of pullback...but when the heck will that come? It looks more and more stable each day, with more and more mainstream apps adopting bitcoin as a payment option (probably bc even if they think it’s a scheme, they’ll be able to ride the wave in volume, which is far better than accepting Fiat)
 
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