The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

Blade Runner

Pelican
There are no bitcoin ppl at gold threads. I wonder why...

Anyway thnx for the warning, guess we all didn’t see bitcoin being volatile the past decade

Sub-1T$ Bitcoin, that’s been in 12yr bull market is much more risky than $8-10T $ gold, that’s done nothing since GFC than disappoint. Makes sense.

Lets face it: gold holders thought gold would return as SoV and bitcoin stole the momentum. That’s why you’re here; the longer you wait before you give up, the less value will be left
I saw a kitco interview with another gold bug, boomer, smart guy and also a uranium guy. The funny thing is that they compared gold to the S&P from 2000: gold did better, about +580 vs +185. But I looked at the chart from 2009 on and the S$P did much better, +380 vs +180. And Bitcoin as you know is a lifetime investment. Ha.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
it'll be finita la commedia real quick
This is what all the vacuous critics keep saying but they never define what this means. What will happen. My response is that the governments, unlike with their fiat currencies, can do nothing to the value of bitcoin. They can ban themselves and their people form participating in this medium of exchange, this asset, or whatever you want to call it - and that's even debatable. But they can't actually DO anything to bitcoin itself. Which is precisely why it will continue to have value.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
So... given the choice between the advice of an economics professor and lay techies... I'ma go with the old man.

Call me crazy.

"B...b... but he doesn't get it!..."

Whatever bro.

Fundamentals don't change that much.

Calling it now... this whole s[earmuffs] is a big fat pile of [digital] emperor's new clothes.


Here's the main issue. These guys apply arguments to bitcoin that are arguments against the legacy things they claim are better than bitcoin. This keeps happening. Any argument against bitcoin can be applied to gold and in large part, gold fails to a much greater degree. I don't understand what these people don't get about something nascent. It's not that hard to fathom; at one point gold was nascent. Do they think people easily accepted paper notes for gold holdings? Credit cards? The internet? It's really high comedy how they ignore the most obvious points in history of changing directions, technology or monetary systems.

They just claim it's better based on history (which is why it's less volatile, lol, it's not nascent), which is obvious to anyone (that they feel secure, note that this is emotional), but for those same reasons for the time being it's also going to be far more limited as an investment = it has already reach its network effect and then some (derivative markets, shiny, loved, etc). What fundamental value does gold have? Oh yeah, it doesn't have one. You can't eat it. You can't verify it easily in a tough situation. It gets crushed in the worst way if you need portability compared to BTC, etc. Gosh, at least silver is an antibiotic. In a pinch I really wish I needed to make a computer mother board with gold - you got me there boomer. Oh yeah, and that jewelry, no one can see that or confiscate that. And it looks great on me. Ha.

Finally, the professor claims that other coins will overtake bitcoin. Ok. Why won't other commodities overtake gold? Why won't other currencies or sound money(s) overtake the USD? It's the exact same idea. Why won't BTC overtake fiats? It may not in the US or other strong military states (or it might cause a war), but it certainly will in most of the world's countries where the government is far more corrupt and the country far less productive. I find the lack of critical thinking and application to their own presuppositions as fundamentally dishonest and 3rd grade thinking for smart people like all of us. That's why it's pretty clear to me that it's emotional thinking based on a desire for a changing world not to be upset or changed --- the legacy guys hate that.
 
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What’s with the pages long arguments back and forth making same points over and over on gold vs Bitcoin? Take it to private message. Yeesh.

You both have valid points. Gold has value. So does Bitcoin. Gold has disadvantages. So does Bitcoin

Gold, Silver, Baby Parts
These have actual value and use to build and repair things. It’s hard to get and not enough. So it will always be valuable.

The price holds up well over time. Yes it’s not +20,000% in ten years. But it holds value. Almost nothing else holds value over time. Especially useful things.

Most investments are liabilities. Not assets. Most companies fail over time. A mining venture can fail. The gold it mines is around forever.

Owning actual gold isn’t hard to do. Owning and securing enough to make you rich or safely trade is.

As our economies grow and diversify there isn’t enough gold to back transactions. So we stopped pretending there was.

Money is a fiction. The only thing that makes it real is confidence and acceptance.

Bitcoin and crypto
It’s value is proving to be resilient but unstable. This isn’t unusual for new asset classes. It will eventually stabilize.

Though that doesn’t mean it won’t all ways go up. It will suffer inflation too. Why? There are always new alt counts. This is like printing endless new fiat money.

At least the US govt and others control their own money supply. Crypto is poorly regulated. It’s flooded with alt and shitcoins. This will continue.

Bitcoins value is determined in dollars. So is golds. The dollar is still king.

Or is it. Bitcoin is great for buying things now. Gold is not.

The trick is having an endless supply of fist money to convert to crypto and an incentive to do so.

This is why Bitcoin will never go to zero. Too much of the illegal economy is running on it now. Too much of the legit economy is starting to accept it.

The main threat to Bitcoin is that anyone can buy it and hold it. The US government could print endless money and buy up nearly all of it.

Theoretically the dark web could divide the leftovers into endless satoshis. I’m not sure this is how the blockchain and ledger are designed to work.

Military, USD, China
One thing is for sure. There is no military backing gold or Bitcoin. That’s what really backs the USD. America pushes back hard on anything that threatens our way of life.

Bitcoin is safe so long as it stays a blimp on the US money supply and economy. If it becomes a serious threat action will be taken.

In reality the US government likes Bitcoin because it’s sucking yuan out of the Chinese economy. Forcing the CCP to print more cash.

This is becoming more of a concern for the US government too. But I think they won’t care until Americans start transacting in BTC instead of USD.

That’s just beginning to happen now but most people aren’t selling because it’s such a speculative investment. We’d rather take profits in dollars.

So the USD still wins. The government will have to do something if everyone starts transacting between different crypto. So for instance if profits are taken in as stable coin backed by gold.

That would make dollars nearly valueless and evade taxes. Governments would collapse or have to buy and convert themselves. What a shit show.
 
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Meraki

Sparrow
To get the thread back on track, I'm quite curious watching some of @Deepdiver charts play out, with some nice pullbacks forming on BTC, ETH, LTC and others across the board.

I still don't quite understand why it tracks so closely with the SPY, even with the huge increase in crypto users this past year. Perhaps its the general "mania" and people fearing for a loss of all their cash/holdings/etc.

In a quiet, dark part of your mind - is anyone else concerned that BTC may be used or co-opted by Soros/Reset as a move to cashless society and further deteriorate not just the perceived value of money, but also other coins?
 
That's what Max Keiser is for...
However, ban on payments using crypto is a death knell to crypto values if this would expand to most countries.
Russia, which I'm a citizen of, is clearly very unfriendly towards cryptos and such regulation (which seems like many people outside of Russia are unaware of) is a very negative move for the crypto values. Who knows, Russia might be the canary in the mine.
They threw the bone and allowed trading them (the original version of the bill had all crypto trading banned as well).
In Nigeria, it is banned as well. And well, on p2p exchanges it trades with a 50% premium. Like the dolar blue in Argentina.
Why do you think / yoiu see it being negative for crypto value?
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Why do you think / yoiu see it being negative for crypto value?

It would be different if banned in The US, Europe, Korea, China and Japan. That would end much fiat entry. If it is banned in Nigeria, it makes little difference to the overall supply, and those Nigerians now operating in a black market are buying into the bubble created by the developed nations.

In 2017 I moved some BTC to a Zimbabwean exchange (Golix), sold at the top and let it bled out, before buying back on the cheap and switching it to USDT. I forget how high it went, but I think it traded over $40,000.

It doesn't look like crypto will be banned, just highly regulated. They will also try and lure in blue-pill buffoons with using digital currencies, which will have essentially no meaningful difference from the current digital fiat currencies. Dealing with exchanges will increasingly come with heavy regulations. I expect to see it become more difficult to move coins to your own wallet.

Most people will be stuck in whatever highly regulated or CBDC nightmare they cook up, but there will be spaces for people to get around that, such as plumbers.
 

Maciano

Kingfisher
When the financial system decouples, as some say it will rather soon, 'paper' gold may evaporate and the price of real gold will surge. But even that will only get about a 50% or so increase, then stall out. Bitcoin will still keep increasing as adoption grows, albeit at a slower rate, but long term still better than Gold.

Anyway, it's totally prudent to own both. Why the hate? Can't we all just get along?

I have no problem whatsoever w/ goldbugs: ppl shd buy whatever they want. It’s the other way around, the goldbugs have a problem w/ bitcoiners.

It’s also clear why: they believed gold would do what bitcoin is doing. That’s why they always talk it down and get into arguments — even after a DECADE of being proven fools.

I have owned gold, so there’s that. If I can make money I will.

The momentum isn’t in gold and for the coming decades will not be, if ever. This is a digital world and that’s where growth lies: see all the tech giants.
 
It would be different if banned in The US, Europe, Korea, China and Japan. That would end much fiat entry. If it is banned in Nigeria, it makes little difference to the overall supply, and those Nigerians now operating in a black market are buying into the bubble created by the developed nations.

In 2017 I moved some BTC to a Zimbabwean exchange (Golix), sold at the top and let it bled out, before buying back on the cheap and switching it to USDT. I forget how high it went, but I think it traded over $40,000.

It doesn't look like crypto will be banned, just highly regulated. They will also try and lure in blue-pill buffoons with using digital currencies, which will have essentially no meaningful difference from the current digital fiat currencies. Dealing with exchanges will increasingly come with heavy regulations. I expect to see it become more difficult to move coins to your own wallet.

Most people will be stuck in whatever highly regulated or CBDC nightmare they cook up, but there will be spaces for people to get around that, such as plumbers.
Why would that be different in these markets? It makes the good even more scarce and harder to get.

It was trading at almost 80k there, like in the one in Zim.
 

Penitent

Sparrow
I learned an interesting fact today; the bitcoin white paper was made public on Oct. 31, 2008 (see history of bitcoin article on wikipedia). I would point out that this day is also known as Halloween which is basically the day the devil comes out to play. It can't be coincidental. Well, bitcoin is a form of money and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil (1 Timothy 6:10), so the devil will have his hand in it for sure. I don't think this means you shouldn't invest in it. The US dollar has occult symbols on it, and I still use it.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
Most people will be stuck in whatever highly regulated or CBDC nightmare they cook up, but there will be spaces for people to get around that, such as plumbers.
Yes. BTC can only give you options, I fail to see why anyone who doesn't trust the government wouldn't be unbelievably interested in it.
It’s also clear why: they believed gold would do what bitcoin is doing. That’s why they always talk it down and get into arguments — even after a DECADE of being proven fools.
Yes. Would you like some extra salt for your CHF, boomer?
The momentum isn’t in gold and for the coming decades will not be, if ever.
Clearly. I am convinced at this point that this is an established fact. Again, I do own some gold but if you really analyze and see what's going on, there isn't much less risk with gold compared to BTC, and the upside is a world's difference (see below).

The funny thing will be when gold bugs get their 50-100% move and start pounding their chest while the BTC crowd makes another 1000% or more, and they conveniently ignore that, again.
 

Maciano

Kingfisher
>Everything in the world becomes digital
>Tech stocks caused most growth in US stock mkts last decades
>All of the world central banks prints money faster than toilet paper factories
>Digital gold (bitcoin) emerges
>For once the little guy can profit
>Gold mkt at $8-10T, bitcoin at ~$1T (and just getting started globally)

What do goldbugs say?

Surely this is the moment to buy gold!

Who doesn’t need a heavy, shiny, yellow rock that you can’t carry in large quantities, can’t keep safe w/o big effort and need to check for quality everything you exchange!
 
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NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I was on the forum the day this thread was started. I regret not buying bitcoin when members suggested I buy a few of them when they were at the $600 mark. They were right, I was wrong. However, I think there is a strong possibility that bitcoin is a dark arts ponzi scheme built to crash. I advise everyone here to cash in now and use your gains to buy raw land with timber and swift flowing creeks (for hydro electric).

I also went to page 1 of the thread the other day and wasn't too impressed. I could have bought bitcoin off an IT consultant over beers in 2014. It would have been $150 bucks worth. Maybe back then it would've been about half a bitcoin when I look back now. Plus buying it probably would have got me into the crypto game. The barrier to bitcoin is the BS around getting it, I know it's not too much, but it throws people off.

We can kick ourselves, but you have to believe in it. I was talking to a buddy tonight. We have become silver bugs over the last year or so. We both had to admit we are just more personality wise made for silver than bitcoin. At the moment we are definitely missing out. The dark ponzi scheme is a possibility, but in our discussion I was mentioning that many of the bitcoin holders are "believers", people who believe in it and won't sell it on little dips.

I would never tell anyone to liquidate all their bitcoin, as established above I am not in it. What I have done alot with stocks that I have owned that flew is to sell half, or sell my invested amount and let the rest ride.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Yes. BTC can only give you options, I fail to see why anyone who doesn't trust the government wouldn't be unbelievably interested in it.

Yes. Would you like some extra salt for your CHF, boomer?

Clearly. I am convinced at this point that this is an established fact. Again, I do own some gold but if you really analyze and see what's going on, there isn't much less risk with gold compared to BTC, and the upside is a world's difference (see below).

The funny thing will be when gold bugs get their 50-100% move and start pounding their chest while the BTC crowd makes another 1000% or more, and they conveniently ignore that, again.

Fair point on gold bugs bragging on their returns when Bitcoin clearly HAS been the call. The Question is whether it is the call at this point.

The risk to bitcoin is it's going up against the Fed. When I think of the "mask" situation, and owners shutting down their shops based on government edict, I wonder about the strength of bitcoin when the powers that be come against it.

I'm with you guys, and I hate the gov, but I don't own bitcoin yet. I was planning to dip into it in December, and would like to still do that soon. Until then I'm working like a goy.

Anyway I should really be on redbeards bitcoin newbie thread. Cheers boys
 
Fair point on gold bugs bragging on their returns when Bitcoin clearly HAS been the call. The Question is whether it is the call at this point.

The risk to bitcoin is it's going up against the Fed. When I think of the "mask" situation, and owners shutting down their shops based on government edict, I wonder about the strength of bitcoin when the powers that be come against it.

I'm with you guys, and I hate the gov, but I don't own bitcoin yet. I was planning to dip into it in December, and would like to still do that soon. Until then I'm working like a goy.

Anyway I should really be on redbeards bitcoin newbie thread. Cheers boys

I'm really busy but I'll bite.

Businesses will always be at odds with the government for the most part. Yes I'm well aware of the parasitic relationship the MIC has with the government. Main street doesn't have resources to fight the government. It's also a matter of the culture too. People can be brainwashed to fear a disease that has a 99% survivability rate just like people can be brainwashed into believing Russia (a country with a small GDP relative to its size among other social issues) can have a puppet candidate.

Digital money is looking more like the future of money. I've been skeptical to a degree on this thread. I'm still not entirely sure how the price is determined and the government is going to regulate it. I could be wrong on this but as far as I know I don't know of any of crypto social media channels taking a defensive tax strategy to stop the government from getting its grubby paws all over the insane gains. It's always buy this coin or else you will miss out and after a while I tune out to the noise. Nomad Capitalist talks about getting a second passport.

Technology changes rapidly. I strongly suggest learning to code so you can see what I mean. I think technology is further accelerating the demise of the nation state. The government will need to act rapidly and not waste time on the latest media circus of finding out athletes are using PEDs or doing a second impeachment of an ex President (why stop there? why not make it a 5th time?). Books like Soverign Individual and the Fourth Turning come to mind to get a hint to what may be possible in the near future.
 
>Everything in the world becomes digital
>Tech stocks caused most growth in US stock mkts last decades
>All of the world central banks prints money faster than toilet paper factories
>Digital gold (bitcoin) emerges
>For once the little guy can profit
>Gold mkt at $8-10T, bitcoin at ~$1T (and just getting started globally)

What do goldbugs say?

Surely this is the moment to buy gold!

Who doesn’t need a heavy, shiny, yellow rock that you can’t carry in large quantities, can’t keep safe w/o big effort and need to check for quality everything you exchange!

Two words; power cut.
 
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