The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

kel

Ostrich
I mine a little Monero using idle cycles, but not much. The best part of mining, IMO, is that you then have clean (non-KYC) crypto.
 

cosine

Sparrow
The best part of mining, IMO, is that you then have clean (non-KYC) crypto.
I agree, but a second benefit: buying crypto doesn't have "cash flow". It just sits there. Mining, on the other hand...

I looked at the calculators and it wasn't cost effective for me, but I priced using a relatively high end gaming pc for it, not a dedicated miner.
I started researching youtube vids last night and building a spreadsheet for parts. I think the main difficulty right now is that so many parts are out of stock due to demand. E.g. you could maybe find a couple decent GPU's, then also find motherboard, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, build your own physical cage, and then find out all good power supplies are out of stock and you have to run your system on a garbage power supply.

That being said it seems like the most out-of-stock items are:
1. GPU risers
2. Good powerful GPUs (lion's share of the $$)
3. The right motherboards that support multiple GPUs.

Some good news is that it seems like you could:
1. Build a rig with one GPU but with slots for 6-8 total.
2. Set it up, begin mining, evaluate results. Are you spending an enormous amount of electricity? how long will it take to pay for itself, etc?
3. You can then drop much more cash on 5-7 additional GPU's.

It seems like powerful GPU's are $500-$3,000 and generate $4-$12/day. I was looking at ones that are about $1,000 and generate $6. So it'd pay for itself in 166 days or 5.5 months, or maybe 8-12 months for the entire setup. The rig will of course degrade over time, but covering 100% of expenditures if BTC stays the same sounds amazing.

If BTC does some wild 10x behavior, then it seems like you will maybe face 1.5x or 2x the competition, but you'll generate 10x the value. Also if parts are in high demand/shortage then the competition could increase even if BTC goes flat for a couple of years.

It is starting to seem like a compounding stack of risks, but of course with a compounding set of rewards. Having your cash flow magically 10x along with BTC or ETH sounds amazing, and I think it is unlikely to truly tank. You can also dollar-cost-average your parts by buying one GPU at a time, see how it does, etc. Honestly there's also just something about running machines that magically produce little bits of money. It sounds like a fantastic hobby.
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Anyone have any experience with mining contracts? Seems like a good way to participate in mining without the cost/hassle of setting up a rig yourself (of course you pay for being able to use the company's equipment), but there are a lot of scams in the space.
 

cosine

Sparrow
I have spent quite a bit of time researching real estate investments. One of the largest arguments is for cash flow.

For example, if you listen to podcasts from biggerpockets .com, a common suggestion strategy is for people to low-ball offers on fairly cheap US houses, say $60k-$100k range, and make sure the math is right to get ~$200/month in cash flow after all expenses are paid. You do some work on the house, refinance, and hopefully take your capital back out. Then you get $200/month with basically zero equity invested.

$200/month isn't amazing, but then the idea is that if you can do that once, you can do it twice, or get a duplex for $400/month or a fourplex for $800/month, or go into apartment buildings. Soon enough you have $5-6k a month, which for many people is enough to quit their job and do other things with life.

For comparison, nicehash.com suggests a $1,000 GPU could net me $180/month in cash flow. Tax-free. There are other expenses, but this is starting to seem like a rental property portfolio(albeit much more volatile and could end up worthless) except I could do it in my garage after putting up some materials and a couple of fans to keep the dust down.

Once you have the rig going, you could buy solar panels or something to cut down electricity costs and make sure the utility company doesn't come knocking, wondering why your consumption is growing so much. On that note, I wonder at what point my utility company would investigate. It seems like I would just want to not scale enormously. So I could net $1,000-$2,000/month as a nice hobby.
 

Kangaroo

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I agree, but a second benefit: buying crypto doesn't have "cash flow". It just sits there. Mining, on the other hand...


I started researching youtube vids last night and building a spreadsheet for parts. I think the main difficulty right now is that so many parts are out of stock due to demand. E.g. you could maybe find a couple decent GPU's, then also find motherboard, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, build your own physical cage, and then find out all good power supplies are out of stock and you have to run your system on a garbage power supply.

That being said it seems like the most out-of-stock items are:
1. GPU risers
2. Good powerful GPUs (lion's share of the $$)
3. The right motherboards that support multiple GPUs.

Some good news is that it seems like you could:
1. Build a rig with one GPU but with slots for 6-8 total.
2. Set it up, begin mining, evaluate results. Are you spending an enormous amount of electricity? how long will it take to pay for itself, etc?
3. You can then drop much more cash on 5-7 additional GPU's.

It seems like powerful GPU's are $500-$3,000 and generate $4-$12/day. I was looking at ones that are about $1,000 and generate $6. So it'd pay for itself in 166 days or 5.5 months, or maybe 8-12 months for the entire setup. The rig will of course degrade over time, but covering 100% of expenditures if BTC stays the same sounds amazing.

If BTC does some wild 10x behavior, then it seems like you will maybe face 1.5x or 2x the competition, but you'll generate 10x the value. Also if parts are in high demand/shortage then the competition could increase even if BTC goes flat for a couple of years.

It is starting to seem like a compounding stack of risks, but of course with a compounding set of rewards. Having your cash flow magically 10x along with BTC or ETH sounds amazing, and I think it is unlikely to truly tank. You can also dollar-cost-average your parts by buying one GPU at a time, see how it does, etc. Honestly there's also just something about running machines that magically produce little bits of money. It sounds like a fantastic hobby.
I think you can only mine BTC with ASIC miners, you can mine ETH with GPU miners but POS comes next year..
 

Guy80

Sparrow
I have spent quite a bit of time researching real estate investments. One of the largest arguments is for cash flow.

For example, if you listen to podcasts from biggerpockets .com, a common suggestion strategy is for people to low-ball offers on fairly cheap US houses, say $60k-$100k range, and make sure the math is right to get ~$200/month in cash flow after all expenses are paid. You do some work on the house, refinance, and hopefully take your capital back out. Then you get $200/month with basically zero equity invested.

$200/month isn't amazing, but then the idea is that if you can do that once, you can do it twice, or get a duplex for $400/month or a fourplex for $800/month, or go into apartment buildings. Soon enough you have $5-6k a month, which for many people is enough to quit their job and do other things with life.

For comparison, nicehash.com suggests a $1,000 GPU could net me $180/month in cash flow. Tax-free. There are other expenses, but this is starting to seem like a rental property portfolio(albeit much more volatile and could end up worthless) except I could do it in my garage after putting up some materials and a couple of fans to keep the dust down.

Once you have the rig going, you could buy solar panels or something to cut down electricity costs and make sure the utility company doesn't come knocking, wondering why your consumption is growing so much. On that note, I wonder at what point my utility company would investigate. It seems like I would just want to not scale enormously. So I could net $1,000-$2,000/month as a nice hobby.
$8k miner nets $200 a month... https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/hardware/#s19
Looking into investing $1mil into a farm with free energy and still wasn't worth it...how long until miners are obsolete or end of life/die
 
I have spent quite a bit of time researching real estate investments. One of the largest arguments is for cash flow.

For example, if you listen to podcasts from biggerpockets .com, a common suggestion strategy is for people to low-ball offers on fairly cheap US houses, say $60k-$100k range, and make sure the math is right to get ~$200/month in cash flow after all expenses are paid. You do some work on the house, refinance, and hopefully take your capital back out. Then you get $200/month with basically zero equity invested.

$200/month isn't amazing, but then the idea is that if you can do that once, you can do it twice, or get a duplex for $400/month or a fourplex for $800/month, or go into apartment buildings. Soon enough you have $5-6k a month, which for many people is enough to quit their job and do other things with life.

For comparison, nicehash.com suggests a $1,000 GPU could net me $180/month in cash flow. Tax-free. There are other expenses, but this is starting to seem like a rental property portfolio(albeit much more volatile and could end up worthless) except I could do it in my garage after putting up some materials and a couple of fans to keep the dust down.

Once you have the rig going, you could buy solar panels or something to cut down electricity costs and make sure the utility company doesn't come knocking, wondering why your consumption is growing so much. On that note, I wonder at what point my utility company would investigate. It seems like I would just want to not scale enormously. So I could net $1,000-$2,000/month as a nice hobby.
I don't know about mining so forgive my ignorance:

Ever thought about doing it at a library?
 
Whether bitcoin is "banned" or not (whatever that means) will NOT cause its value to crash.

There has been FUD around btc being "banned" (Again, whatever that means) since it entered the public domain. Everybody knows there is a risk that (some) goverments might try to regulate it or make holding or trading it illegal.

However, the whole point of btc is that it's existence and power does NOT depend on what this or that government decides to do. As long as there are capable, motivated individuals who want bitcoin, bitcoin will exist - that is a fact.

And with a market cap of over 1 trillion US dollars (and growing), and the value of fiat currencies (including the US dollar, Euro, and GBP) being destroyed around the world, and credibility in the institutions responsible for their creation being destroyed by the day, do you really think that it will just go into the night if the governments around the world decide to "ban" it?

Where else are people going to park their money? Stocks? Bonds? Real Estate? Gold? Art? With all the problems these SoV have for all sorts of reasons, which btc actually does away with?

Know that if bitcoin is "banned" everybody will know that it is because it is considered a mortal theat to the fiat currency, and if a technology like btc is a mortal threat to the fiat currency, then the fiat currency is eo ipso of very little value. Further pushing smart money into it even harder.

Btc will not be "banned", the PTB know that is stupid and a losing game. what they will try to do is to create an ecosystem around it which makes it as harmless as possible to the status quo. They don't exactly know what that looks like yet. But they will try different things until one seems to stick - which is the elite's usualy MO.

But outright ban (forbid buying btc and using the btc protocol)? That is the last thing they want to do, because they know it will only blow up in their face, and will only ever do it if they really feel they have no other choice and btc is about to break their system into pieces.

We are still a *very* long way away from such a hypothetical scenario.

Calling it now... BTC will be vilified as an enemy of the climate and banned.
 

Stats

Woodpecker

Calling it now... BTC will be vilified as an enemy of the climate and banned.
maybe some will try but no country has ever successful banned btc. also you can just mine with renewable energy. and all the fed coins coming will share the same high energy cost flaws as the main point is to track all transactions, but has non of the benefits (no supply cap).
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
RE: mining. Make sure you factor in the cost of the miner, since many of them cost thousands of dollars. The other thing to remember is that miners are...more consumable than you'd expect. They have lifespans just like any other electronic. That's where they differ from real estate. Miners die, land lasts forever.

Oh yeah, don't forget if you're mining at home, that miners run HOT and LOUD. They are not fun.
 
Whether bitcoin is "banned" or not (whatever that means) will NOT cause its value to crash.

There has been FUD around btc being "banned" (Again, whatever that means) since it entered the public domain. Everybody knows there is a risk that (some) goverments might try to regulate it or make holding or trading it illegal.

However, the whole point of btc is that it's existence and power does NOT depend on what this or that government decides to do. As long as there are capable, motivated individuals who want bitcoin, bitcoin will exist - that is a fact.

And with a market cap of over 1 trillion US dollars (and growing), and the value of fiat currencies (including the US dollar, Euro, and GBP) being destroyed around the world, and credibility in the institutions responsible for their creation being destroyed by the day, do you really think that it will just go into the night if the governments around the world decide to "ban" it?

Where else are people going to park their money? Stocks? Bonds? Real Estate? Gold? Art? With all the problems these SoV have for all sorts of reasons, which btc actually does away with?

Know that if bitcoin is "banned" everybody will know that it is because it is considered a mortal theat to the fiat currency, and if a technology like btc is a mortal threat to the fiat currency, then the fiat currency is eo ipso of very little value. Further pushing smart money into it even harder.

Btc will not be "banned", the PTB know that is stupid and a losing game. what they will try to do is to create an ecosystem around it which makes it as harmless as possible to the status quo. They don't exactly know what that looks like yet. But they will try different things until one seems to stick - which is the elite's usualy MO.

But outright ban (forbid buying btc and using the btc protocol)? That is the last thing they want to do, because they know it will only blow up in their face, and will only ever do it if they really feel they have no other choice and btc is about to break their system into pieces.

We are still a *very* long way away from such a hypothetical scenario.

Maybe... but the value of BTC has exploded because big corporate/finance names have embraced it.

When they reject it, what will happen?...
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Who here on the forum believes that this week 11-17Apr21 will be the 'Swing Out Sister' week for BTC?

I'm looking at down.

At this point in 2017 BTC dominance was down 18%.

This year it's down 14%.

Clear long-term trend down for BTC.

Screenshot-at-2021-04-10-17-01-05.png


It's pushing below long-term resistance here.

I've been considering selling up and switching to CAKE and a few others I think will have a bigger upside this year.
 

kel

Ostrich

Haven't gone through it so I can't recommend it per se, but looking at the summaries this appears to be a good dive into the workings of a blockchain and more for those interested.
 
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