The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

ginsu

Woodpecker
Ummm I think Scorpion was implying that he should either return the money or give it away, since it's not his money.
I respectfully disagree with this idea, by telling everyone with a sense of morals to give back money or '' dont be greedy bro '' you are just ensuring that more money will accumulate in the hands of immoral people. The best thing we can do is take more of it into our own hands and atleast that will guarantee a chance for it to be spent in a good way. Or would you rather it flows back to the government / normies / leftist to hand out to their partners in crime like ngo's and big companies.
 
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Blade Runner

Pelican
Orthodox
Ummm I think Scorpion was implying that he should either return the money or give it away, since it's not his money.
Yes it is, this is a game. It's not anybody's money, and you do nothing but act a sucker and a fool to act like principle or some such thing has been in this monetary system for decades. Honestly, it's the same reason why Republicans and conservatives find ways to lose over and over, they play some type of ego game with their "principles" while the other side keeps winning.
 
Ummm I think Scorpion was implying that he should either return the money or give it away, since it's not his money.

while a noble take, keep in mind the money was digitally produced out of thin air. If anything he deserves to hold on to it because at least he is not contributing to inflation and reducing the purchasing power of the poor/middle class by dumping it into an asset like bitcoin (the fake thin air money is not circulating in the real economy driving up prices) . also with dumping it into bitcoin he's not further inflating home values or metal prices or essential things like food.

and obviously lets not forget the part where the higher the price of bitcoin , the sooner we stop the fed from propping up globo homo
 

Robert High Hawk

Kingfisher
while a noble take, keep in mind the money was digitally produced out of thin air. If anything he deserves to hold on to it because at least he is not contributing to inflation and reducing the purchasing power of the poor/middle class by dumping it into an asset like bitcoin (the fake thin air money is not circulating in the real economy driving up prices) . also with dumping it into bitcoin he's not further inflating home values or metal prices or essential things like food.

and obviously lets not forget the part where the higher the price of bitcoin , the sooner we stop the fed from propping up globo homo

Very well said. If he gives it back, it will go to a scammer. If he buys a car, he takes one of the few available new or used autos off the market from a family that needs it. If he buys STONKS, he further inflates that bubble.

There is actually one downside, and that's the moral hazard of accepting and keeping free money, since it reduces your drive to earn on your own.

But with bitcoin, it's a long game investment.
 

rainy

Kingfisher
So you're sitting on $50k of taxpayer money that was given to you to help keep your business afloat, but which now you don't actually need.

And the best thing you can think to do with it is to speculate in Bitcoin.

I think this little anecdote explains a lot of what has been going on in the financial, housing and consumer markets over the past six months.
Well no, actually. If you were to read the words I typed you’d have seen I’m thinking about allocating 1/3 of the loan to BTC. That means I have 2/3 already earmarked for other improvements.

Let me offer a different perspective after reading a number of the comments on this.

When the pandemic hit here in NY, we were the first to have everything shut down. A portion of by business was deemed essential but due to the communists running this state, the revenue I lost out on was considerably more than the loan amount. So right there I'm a net loss including the loan.

Then in council with my attorney as shit was moving incredibly fast at that time, I was being heavily advised to keep everyone on payroll full time to both qualify for the PPP loan and to comply with emergency COVID sick leave time off. Up to 80 hours time missed due to COVID I had to legally cover PER employee. And I did. Hundreds of ours of paid sick time due to a number of positive cases and quarantines. So that's another additional net loss due to the government.

I was told the emergency sick leave which I essentially fronted, hundreds of hours, would be reimbursed by a payroll tax credit by the IRS. I filed for that back last July and still haven't received a dime.

There was also emergency family leave I legally had to pay, a result of schools shutting down and employees needing to look after their children and school them. But to qualify for the loan you couldn't cut hours more than a max of 25%. So while my office manager didn't report to work for months as she was home schooling, I paid her 75% of her salary while she did 10% of her previous workload. Again, fronted by me.

And as recently as two weeks ago I did not know whether that loan would be forgiven. So I have been setting money aside this entire time thinking I might have to pay it back plus interest. And with that in mind I reworked the blueprint of my company over the winter to change and adapt with the times.

If you want to sit here and tell me 12+ months later that now I don't actually need the loan, I would say that isn't the point. I would say in short, due to the communists running this state I lost out on more money than the loan represents due to lockdowns, I front loaded and paid for hundreds of COVID sick leave hours, costing many 10's of thousands in dollars, which I haven't been reimbursed for, and paid an employee 75% of her wages for 5 months to do 10% of the work. That's a net loss. Due to the government. So I will gladly take the loan turned grant. Because I would have been better off without the lockdowns and never seeing the loan.

And what do I want to do with it now? Invest more in my company, infrastructure and employees. And set 1/3 aside to invest for the next round of improving my company and expansion(more employees) in 5-10 years. And BTC will return far more than some mutual fund, hence I'm highly considering it.

If you read the above and think I'm somehow the problem and companies like mine with that intention are the problem, I don't know what to tell you. I kept every single employee on full time and have added more in 2021. I'm not using this money to go sit on some far off beach. I'm using it to reinvest in my employees and equipment/fleet. How would you like a small biz to handle it differently? Would you rather I give it back so the government can continue paying more people to not work and assume and even larger net loss even though they shut down most of my biz over the China virus?
 

cosine

Robin
I respectfully disagree with this idea, by telling everyone with a sense of morals to give back money or '' dont be greedy bro '' you are just ensuring that more money will accumulate in the hands of immoral people. The best thing we can do is take more of it into our own hands
If you want to have a family and ensure that your woman doesn't need to work, you had better be on top of money.
 

BURNΞR

Pelican
Any thoughts on miners/distributors (like $ISWH, Bit5ive) and suppliers of miners, like Bitmain? Is there a correlation to the precious metal industry, wherein miners have a 2-3X gain/loss over the underlying product, and discovery companies (very roughly Bitmain?) also have a different ratio?

I respect that Crypto mining is a much newer industry, but such plays may be worth the risk. Relatively new crypto investor here, not "sophisticated." Please be gracious.

Don't touch mining. I've personally done the math and find it difficult or impossible to make money unless you have free electricity or able to secure several rtx 3000 series GPUs for retail price (not scalper price). I don't trust the miner distributors because they scam you by mining on the ASIC for several months they sell you to say they tested it. By the time you get your ASIC miner it is already outdated tech.
 
Don't touch mining. I've personally done the math and find it difficult or impossible to make money unless you have free electricity or able to secure several rtx 3000 series GPUs for retail price (not scalper price). I don't trust the miner distributors because they scam you by mining on the ASIC for several months they sell you to say they tested it. By the time you get your ASIC miner it is already outdated tech.


There is a legitimate way to gain the benefits of BTC mining…less downside risk with 80% upside of just HODLing. I think this was covered on the We Study Billionares podcast with Adam Back. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/blockstream-launches-bitcoin-mining-hash-rate-token

Basically Blockstream calculated that instead of using an initial investment to buy ASIC miners, and continuously selling the mined BTC to pay the electricity bills, it is more profitable to use only 50% of the investment in ASIC miners, and use the remaining 50% to pay for the electricity, instead of having to immediately sell the mined Bitcoin. They then tokenized the “shares” of this mining operation, which can give you all of the benefits of mining. Minimum investment is €200,000. It’s the BMN token sold on STOKR.

The main advantages of mining is a lower downside risk, with reduced upside gains. So the opposite of leverage.
 
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BURNΞR

Pelican
Sounds interesting but if I'm going to do that why not just buy tech stocks or just buy crypto? I can probably get a higher capital appreciation just holding top coins without the counter party risk.

The only way you'll make money in mining now is by having big money to start with. But if you already have this then why enter a competitive business with so many risk factors? Your tech becomes obsolete quickly, electricity bills and rent need to be paid, govermments could shut your operation down for using too much juice. Good luck trying to update your ASICs and GPUs now with inflation and global chip shortages. My rx5700 xt GPU which I bought for $300 fetches 3x what I bought it for and it's a middle tier card, not even the sought after rtx3000 series. How exactly would one farm these today?

You can still earn money in crypto by staking your ADA for 4.6% APY on your hard wallet or earn interest on your BTC/ETH on Blockfi. These have their own risk factors but it's not on the level of mining.

MIning just seems like attractive idea to those that want to safely acquire cashflow. I just think this can be done in so many other ways. Even buying and renting out property seems more solid.
 

cosine

Robin
The hashrate will change over time, so your equipment will yield a different amount of BTC compared to what you are expecting. If the price goes up, the hashrate will go up more quickly due to competition.

When I started creating a cost model, it seemed like there were too many variables that I was unfamiliar with. Seems sort of like a much scaled-down version of investing in actual commodity mining like copper.

I do have relatively cheap electricity, but it's also just a huge pain to set up and run -- one more complication in life.

So my conclusion is the same as many others -- I should just take the mining investment and buy crypto with it.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Following mainstream advice means you will be wrong about everything and lose in every stake.


E3eDsUAXoAUe50K



I think it will be broadly sideways for about six weeks before resuming the bull market.
 

BURNΞR

Pelican
I don't understand this market right now. USD is gaining because all other currencies are selling to acquire it. Burry seems to be cheerleading Bitcoin and Microstrategy (MSTR) falling.

The price is bouncing between 30 and 40k with leveraged whales gambling. I geniunely can't tell if we are in a bear or bull market. 65k just didn't doesn't look like a blow off top and the duration of the bull market was too short (4.5 months). I can't make sense of it. Either the bull market has prematurely ended because of institutional leverage plays or this is a lengthy pullback.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Will this be a problem? I have a bit more in crypto than I would like to admit, should I start slowly emptying the coffers?
Quite a dip within a dip overnight (night in the US). Hopefully that's all it is.

If you've got more invested than you can afford to lose, maybe take out half so you don't lose your shirt. That's what I'd do. Personally I'm OK on fiat right now and getting wiped out if crypto returns to 2020 values will be disappointing but not put me on the street, so I'm going to hodl to the bitter end.
 
The question is, what is the narrative change that will come and change things?

The money printing of 2020 got things going, and then the Tesla/Elon stuff is what got the momentum up even more as it smashed through 40k in early Feb.

Now the narrative is environmental waste, CCP banning, US scrutiny. On top of the “store of value in the face of gov caused inflation” narrative failing. All of these are true imo.

The only two things I can think of off hand are that inflation does increase and is felt, and the “deflationary” narrative is strengthened. And also that the CCP tries hard and fails to effectively ban it, which strengthens the decentralized narrative.

One last one is a big institutional inflow to buy low. But they seem to follow narratives and not set them.
 
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