The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

kurtybro

Woodpecker
The way i see it, bitcoin fundamentals haven't changed, it's still the same great dis-inflationary store of value as it always was. Just because it drops compared to the biggest Ponzi in history (USD), doesn't mean it will die in the long run. It's out, you can't unscramble the egg...there are just too many super intelligent people involved and with skin in the game at this point. It's also got a relatively long history without any actual provable bugs/holes in the system, so it's resilient because you know people are trying to exploit it 24/7.

The USD is doomed to fail, the question is whether or not the people are okay with accepting a centralized digital currency which would spell the end for their freedom, it's a hard sell in the west (I just don't see the majority of productive intelligent capable people as simply just accepting this)-- i expect alot of turbulence and fracturing. We'll see.
 
The way i see it, bitcoin fundamentals haven't changed, it's still the same great dis-inflationary store of value as it always was. Just because it drops compared to the biggest Ponzi in history (USD), doesn't mean it will die in the long run. It's out, you can't unscramble the egg...there are just too many super intelligent people involved and with skin in the game at this point. It's also got a relatively long history without any actual provable bugs/holes in the system, so it's resilient because you know people are trying to exploit it 24/7.

The USD is doomed to fail, the question is whether or not the people are okay with accepting a centralized digital currency which would spell the end for their freedom, it's a hard sell in the west (I just don't see the majority of productive intelligent capable people as simply just accepting this)-- i expect alot of turbulence and fracturing. We'll see.
I don't see how Bitcoin can die. No government in the world can ban it.

However, when stocks fell that was when Bitcoin fell as well, so Bitcoin is not immune to the movements of other assets. Worst case scenario Bitcoin drops a lot in value.

I also see the US monopoly on currency, in the sense of the whole world using USD for oil payments etc, as being endangered by Bitcoin. Whether it disappears I don't know, but if so it will be long way down the line.
 

Update on El Salvador. Looks like they are starting to get a lot of heat from the globalists. First the IMF+ Worldbank and now Victoria Nuland

Any news on other Latin American countries considering this move? I've heard about Paraguay and Panama contemplating the idea, but that was weeks ago.

Well, I can tell you from having lived there for many years, that Panamá won't do it unless they have the blessing of the globalists. Its political class is completely devoted to Agenda 2030. From Paraguay, who knows.
 
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cosine

Robin
I don't see how Bitcoin can die. No government in the world can ban it.
They can ban it. But banning it doesn't make it easy to confiscate. If the Chinese government finds a multiple-acres weed farm, they can destroy the plants, throw people in prison, etc, but a hardware wallet or cold storage wallet are so small.

I really see China banning mining as one of the best possible outcomes that entrenches its place in the rest of the world. With the hash rate plunging, miners are flocking to Texas, Florida, and Kansas. Plus places like Iceland and S. America for the volcanic energy potential. I met a young guy who's interning at a civil engineering company building windmills around Kansas; they're setting the windfarms up so that excess energy can easily be sent to bitcoin miners.

It seems likely that as miners get entrenched into US states and many countries, then US Feds will have a harder time aggressively regulating it.
 
They can ban it. But banning it doesn't make it easy to confiscate. If the Chinese government finds a multiple-acres weed farm, they can destroy the plants, throw people in prison, etc, but a hardware wallet or cold storage wallet are so small.

I really see China banning mining as one of the best possible outcomes that entrenches its place in the rest of the world. With the hash rate plunging, miners are flocking to Texas, Florida, and Kansas. Plus places like Iceland and S. America for the volcanic energy potential. I met a young guy who's interning at a civil engineering company building windmills around Kansas; they're setting the windfarms up so that excess energy can easily be sent to bitcoin miners.

It seems likely that as miners get entrenched into US states and many countries, then US Feds will have a harder time aggressively regulating it.

They can pass laws to try and ban it, but they can't actually ban crypto. It's not like Crypto is controlled by the US in any way, or can be controlled by any country due to its decentralized nature.

Several countries have put in place laws to ban crypto. With zero success, the citizens of those countries still hold bitcoin. How would a country enforce a ban against crypto? Go on the laptop of every citizen? I mean its ludicrous.
 

cosine

Robin
They can pass laws to try and ban it, but they can't actually ban crypto. It's not like Crypto is controlled by the US in any way, or can be controlled by any country due to its decentralized nature.

Several countries have put in place laws to ban crypto. With zero success, the citizens of those countries still hold bitcoin. How would a country enforce a ban against crypto? Go on the laptop of every citizen? I mean its ludicrous.
You're correct, they'll never catch all crypto miners in China, there will still be nodes, there will still be many, many Chinese citizens holding it.

But one of the primary factors driving(or expected to drive) the price of bitcoin is institutional investment. Blackrock, Mass Mutual, JP Morgan, etc all have some involvement in crypto spaces. If it's outlawed, they won't participate, at least not in a large scale, and that will prevent the price rising.

Holding it in Gemini, BlockFi, etc would shut down. You'd have to stick to Binance(as opposed to Binance US) or other trading platforms based in places like Malta. Coinbase would have to shut down.

Microstrategy, Tesla, Square, Paypal would all have to liquidate a bunch of bitcoin or relocate or something.

Of course there is no way they would stop everyone from mining it in their garage. But it'd be far less attractive to everyone. Who really wants a crypto farm that's now fully illegal? You use a ton of energy, so it'd be dangerous to scale it. Even in weed-friendly states, growing presents challenges. No one wants to give you a loan, insurance, etc if you are a weed business. Deloitte won't do your accounting or hire employees with marijuana on their resumes which means people inherently take a step backwards if they switch industries.

Whatever the US Gov't decides to do or not do, it'll be incredibly consequential for the world. They will never shut down bitcoin, but they can make it way less attractive.

Edit: I do wonder if outlawing it would significantly delay but not end its takeover. E.g. it could drop by 90% in price, but eventually, over years, it'd bounce back and get implemented on a black market way, and people mining it in random places will do really well.
 

Arado

Pelican
Gold Member
You're correct, they'll never catch all crypto miners in China, there will still be nodes, there will still be many, many Chinese citizens holding it.

But one of the primary factors driving(or expected to drive) the price of bitcoin is institutional investment. Blackrock, Mass Mutual, JP Morgan, etc all have some involvement in crypto spaces. If it's outlawed, they won't participate, at least not in a large scale, and that will prevent the price rising.

Holding it in Gemini, BlockFi, etc would shut down. You'd have to stick to Binance(as opposed to Binance US) or other trading platforms based in places like Malta. Coinbase would have to shut down.

Microstrategy, Tesla, Square, Paypal would all have to liquidate a bunch of bitcoin or relocate or something.

Of course there is no way they would stop everyone from mining it in their garage. But it'd be far less attractive to everyone. Who really wants a crypto farm that's now fully illegal? You use a ton of energy, so it'd be dangerous to scale it. Even in weed-friendly states, growing presents challenges. No one wants to give you a loan, insurance, etc if you are a weed business. Deloitte won't do your accounting or hire employees with marijuana on their resumes which means people inherently take a step backwards if they switch industries.

Whatever the US Gov't decides to do or not do, it'll be incredibly consequential for the world. They will never shut down bitcoin, but they can make it way less attractive.

Edit: I do wonder if outlawing it would significantly delay but not end its takeover. E.g. it could drop by 90% in price, but eventually, over years, it'd bounce back and get implemented on a black market way, and people mining it in random places will do really well.
That's pretty fair assessment - they can curb institutional interest by creating reputational risk, and outlaw the on/off ramps. However, at that point then it will be essentially an all-out war on Bitcoin, and some of these HODLers are hardcore and will keep stacking and buying the dip. Also many U.S. states have embraced it - will the Federal government force them to backtrack - could that cause a constitutional crisis?

Price will drop, but long term resilience will rise, and if this is taking place in a macro backdrop of high inflation and increasing civil unrest then people will be desperate to find ways to store value outside the system.
 

cosine

Robin
Also many U.S. states have embraced it - will the Federal government force them to backtrack - could that cause a constitutional crisis?
I do think it will get more contentious if the price starts really skyrocketing. Somebody will want to tax it, be it Seattle, NYC, a blue state to take money from their billionaires, etc.

Michael Saylor makes good points that people can move $1B of bitcoin to Wyoming in 15 minutes if NYC passes a law taxing it.

Janet Yellen has made a bunch of false statements about bitcoin, Cathie Wood has criticized her for that.

Gary Gensler is the new head of the SEC, he taught a class on cryptocurrencies at MIT. I tend to think he is about as reasonable of a person as we can hope for. My hope is that if he actually lays a foundation for light/moderate regulation of it, it'll set a standard that gets followed for a long time. Whereas if there's no regulation then the door stays more open to aggressive regulation.

I also tend to think that the big institutions who do already have money in it will not just roll over. Various senators, other politicians in TX, FL, KS, WY all seem to like it.

I think for me personally, the risk/reward profile is good enough that it makes sense to put a ton of my money into it. Perhaps it falls, perhaps I do very well.
 
You're correct, they'll never catch all crypto miners in China, there will still be nodes, there will still be many, many Chinese citizens holding it.

But one of the primary factors driving(or expected to drive) the price of bitcoin is institutional investment. Blackrock, Mass Mutual, JP Morgan, etc all have some involvement in crypto spaces. If it's outlawed, they won't participate, at least not in a large scale, and that will prevent the price rising.

Holding it in Gemini, BlockFi, etc would shut down. You'd have to stick to Binance(as opposed to Binance US) or other trading platforms based in places like Malta. Coinbase would have to shut down.

Microstrategy, Tesla, Square, Paypal would all have to liquidate a bunch of bitcoin or relocate or something.

Of course there is no way they would stop everyone from mining it in their garage. But it'd be far less attractive to everyone. Who really wants a crypto farm that's now fully illegal? You use a ton of energy, so it'd be dangerous to scale it. Even in weed-friendly states, growing presents challenges. No one wants to give you a loan, insurance, etc if you are a weed business. Deloitte won't do your accounting or hire employees with marijuana on their resumes which means people inherently take a step backwards if they switch industries.

Whatever the US Gov't decides to do or not do, it'll be incredibly consequential for the world. They will never shut down bitcoin, but they can make it way less attractive.

Edit: I do wonder if outlawing it would significantly delay but not end its takeover. E.g. it could drop by 90% in price, but eventually, over years, it'd bounce back and get implemented on a black market way, and people mining it in random places will do really well.

I think you're making an excellent point. I still remember when a crypto start up could not get a bank account because banks would not touch it as soon as they heard it was crypto. That's changed somewhat, but clearly only with institutional support could Bitcoin soar to the heights some anticipate. Whilst they can not ban crypto they can drive the price down. As we saw BTC is sensitive to general economic conditions as well, when shares fell, so did BTC.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Starting to wonder if "Digital Euro" is going to replace Euro currency/note soon.



* ECB = European Central Bank

Edit.




The European Central Bank announced Wednesday that it’s starting work toward creating a digital euro currency as more consumers ditch cash.

The project is expected to take two years and the idea is to design a digital version of the single currency, used in the 19 members of the euro zone. However, the actual implementation of the central bank backed currency could take another two years on top of the design and investigation stage.

“It has been nine months since we published our report on a digital euro. In that time, we have carried out further analysis, sought input from citizens and professionals, and conducted some experiments, with encouraging results. All of this has led us to decide to move up a gear and start the digital euro project,” ECB President Christine Lagarde said in a statement.

“Our work aims to ensure that in the digital age citizens and firms continue to have access to the safest form of money, central bank money,” she added.

Lagarde had forecast in March a timeline of at least four years for full implementation. In an interview with Bloomberg News, Lagarde said that this was a technical endeavor and that “we need to make sure we do it right.”

 
Starting to wonder if "Digital Euro" is going to replace Euro currency/note soon.



* ECB = European Central Bank

Edit.






hahaha lol
as they have no economic arguments, they use the environment and green.
If it was a comedy, I could not stop laughing.
 

AmandManny

Chicken
Most likely, Dubai will achieve its goal.
I am sure that Dubai will achieve what it wants. I believe that there is a future behind cryptocurrency, and Dubai is a reasonably technological city and is developing much faster than some of the big powers out there. Given the growing popularity of cryptocurrencies and the increasing appearance of such services as https://cryptoinformator.com/how-to-make-money-with-crypto-signals it will be very profitable for them if they invest in it. If everything happens, they will be able to bring something new to this area. At least payments using cryptocurrencies will become even more popular. In any case, this is a win-win situation.
 
Starting to wonder if "Digital Euro" is going to replace Euro currency/note soon.



* ECB = European Central Bank

Edit.






Sovereign cryptocurrencies hold a lot of promise for (((international bankers))). Hebrew scientists are hard a work inventing a crypto currency with all the tracking that is possible with a public ledger, and combining it with the ability to trivially mint new coins to hand out to friends, and to be able to automatically extract taxes from anyone holding coins (e.g. negative interest).
 
Sovereign cryptocurrencies hold a lot of promise for (((international bankers))). Hebrew scientists are hard a work inventing a crypto currency with all the tracking that is possible with a public ledger, and combining it with the ability to trivially mint new coins to hand out to friends, and to be able to automatically extract taxes from anyone holding coins (e.g. negative interest).
and to restrict the ability of certain coins to be spent at certain places and putting an expiry date on coins.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I am sure that Dubai will achieve what it wants. I believe that there is a future behind cryptocurrency, and Dubai is a reasonably technological city and is developing much faster than some of the big powers out there. Given the growing popularity of cryptocurrencies and the increasing appearance of such services as https://cryptoinformator.com/how-to-make-money-with-crypto-signals it will be very profitable for them if they invest in it. If everything happens, they will be able to bring something new to this area. At least payments using cryptocurrencies will become even more popular. In any case, this is a win-win situation.

They have their own connection to the 4th industrial revolution, outlined here:


But the difference between the UAE socio-economic impetus and the globalist socio-economic impetus is the latter is interested in shutting down small businesses. It is not interested in economic growth, it is primarily interested in control through capital and offshore governance. While The UAE model seeks to turbo-charge economic growth while embracing technology that will improve environmental quality and sustainability.

Maybe the key facet of the country is that if they ever do things that make the country into a Klaus Schwab hellscape, or just degrade it, then millions of people will leave very quickly. The material and social success of the rulers is broadly bound to that of the residents. It is a fine balance that you won't find in Western countries. Western leaders can degrade their countries dramatically and few will leave.

With that said, you can see the intrusion of globalist policies, like ESG. You can also see that they are merely jumping through hoops. Though that in itself is not a good thing. But it is the way of the world now, if you don't play ball with the international system, you will end up like Russia and Iran. The flip side is constantly implementing new globalist policies.
 
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