The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

chance vought

Woodpecker
Protestant
It depends on your long term view. If you bought 50 Bitcoin in 2013, would it make much difference now if you had paid $15 in January 2013, or bought it in December for $900? Maybe it goes lower from here, maybe it doesn’t. To me, these swings are a rounding error in the long term, if you think this is going to replace most negative yielding assets.

Nothing has fundamentally changed about Bitcoin. The worst thing for Bitcoin is a stable, strong economy, free market, and no financial censorship, financial repression, wealth confiscation, or capital controls. I don’t see that happening. There is no alternative and there is no other property you can truly own.

Also is Bitcoin volatile, or is it the fiat paper we are pricing it with? We know exactly how many there will ever be, vs an unlimited number of fiat units…we just don’t know exponential we approach infinity. Our own government doesn’t even know how many dollars there are, but we know the number has to always increase, or the debt money system mathematically fails.
 
Last edited:

chance vought

Woodpecker
Protestant
I'm not concerned yet. If BTC gets below 30k for more than a week, then I might be. This is just part of the ride.
Even then there’s nothing to be concerned about, maybe mad I had less cash on hand. Maybe it could crater to $10k, or $1k, but in that scenario, good luck moving any amount of fiat money out of the banking system, because bad things will be happening there if Bitcoin is at those levels.
 

chance vought

Woodpecker
Protestant
I was listening to Robert Breedlove (What is Money Show). He asked Jeff Snyder, who likes BTC, but isn’t convinced that it will succeed, what he believes is the biggest problem with BTC at this moment, that gives him doubts. Snyder replied that it is not widely distributed enough, and too concentrated (the wealth, not the network). Similar views have been expressed by some intelligent folks here.

I don’t know what caused the price action, but I can predict the result. Many people who thought about buying BTC last year, didn’t buy, saw it double in price, kicked themselves for not buying….are going to buy some now. Wider distribution. When it moons 4x at some point, a lot of traders will sell, and distribution will increase again. The extreme volatility is what solves what many see as the greatest obstacle to success, which is a wide, even distribution of coins.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Even then there’s nothing to be concerned about, maybe mad I had less cash on hand. Maybe it could crater to $10k, or $1k, but in that scenario, good luck moving any amount of fiat money out of the banking system, because bad things will be happening there if Bitcoin is at those levels.
Yes. The closer it gets to 30k, the more I buy. Internet people are making fun of guys like chance and me, but we'll have the last laugh - though it will be sad for most.
 

Talus

Robin
Other Christian
Fed is tapering and getting ready to raise interest rates. Looks like it will be a bearish 2022.

I think this will cut out a lot of weak hands that started buying during the 2020-2021 rally. When they are no longer in the green and start slowly depriciating into the red they will sell and try to cut losses. Meanwhile, those that truly understand the network will continue stacking cheap sats undeterred.

Jeff snyder is right about the concentration of wealth in the bitcoin network, but the fact that this gives him doubts about the success of the network just shows us that he has a poor understanding of the game theory underpinning Bitcoin. The crazier and more chaotic this world gets, the more people and organizations will look for an asset that holds value across time and can be self custodied without risk of institutional theft (tax, inflation, corruption, malpractice).

The early adopters of the network stand to gain exponentially, but there is plenty of room for everyone on the network.
 

bubs

Robin
Protestant
Bitcoin has been on a 2-3 month slide, about a 40% drop in value. Does that simply mean that more people are selling than buying or more too it than that? Confuses me because seems like more and more people have access and hearing that many small countries are buying into it so not really following the drop in value.
 

inthefade

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Bitcoin has been on a 2-3 month slide, about a 40% drop in value. Does that simply mean that more people are selling than buying or more too it than that? Confuses me because seems like more and more people have access and hearing that many small countries are buying into it so not really following the drop in value.
No more tether printing.
 

BURNΞR

Ostrich
Agnostic
So many Christian takes on Bitcoin. Here's a book written by a Christian that says Bitcoin is good:

Robert Breedlove is another podcaster that is Christian and pro-Bitcoin.

What is the actual Christian consensus on Bitcoin? I always assumed they were for it but this thread is making me question that assumption.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
So many Christian takes on Bitcoin. Here's a book written by a Christian that says Bitcoin is good:

Robert Breedlove is another podcaster that is Christian and pro-Bitcoin.

What is the actual Christian consensus on Bitcoin? I always assumed they were for it but this thread is making me question that assumption.
I think the only objection to it as the hardest of money is its inception: created as a way out of the existing, disgusting behemoth system and thus not as ubiquitously distributed as perhaps may be thought ideal. But do poor people have gold? Silver? No. So you can say that since life isn't fair, at least have a fair medium of exchange that doesn't get abused by the money printer (direct to indirect labor abuse).
 

Penitent

Woodpecker
Orthodox
We know exactly how many there will ever be, vs an unlimited number of fiat units…
Honest question: We know that one bitcoin can be divided into 100 million satoshis. I've also heard that if Bitcoin became a world reserve currency and it became necessary for reasons of pricing that it would be likely that the developers would cut each bitcoin up into smaller pieces, say, 1 billion satoshis. At that point wouldn't it just be inflation but going the other way? I mean going to the right of the decimal point instead of to the left? I know that's a confusing perspective to think about, like traveling back in time, but I think it's a valid question.
 

chance vought

Woodpecker
Protestant
Honest question: We know that one bitcoin can be divided into 100 million satoshis. I've also heard that if Bitcoin became a world reserve currency and it became necessary for reasons of pricing that it would be likely that the developers would cut each bitcoin up into smaller pieces, say, 1 billion satoshis. At that point wouldn't it just be inflation but going the other way? I mean going to the right of the decimal point instead of to the left? I know that's a confusing perspective to think about, like traveling back in time, but I think it's a valid question.
It would be a millisat. There is still a fixed amount of Satoshis, but they can be subdivided. Just like a gas station can charge you $2.85 and 9/10ths of a cent…it doesn’t add more monetary units. A 1/100th gram of gold is worth only 1% of a gram of gold. Millisats are already being used on the lightning network. A typical lightning transaction fee is only 300 Satoshis per million transacted, so a small lightning transaction of only a few satoshis (micropayments, like streaming satoshis to a podcaster) pays the routing node in thousandths of a Satoshi (Millisats). Breez wallet can stream Satoshis, as well as Fountain. There is a podcast I listen to that has no ads, Citadel Dispatch, that is 100% supported by donations.

Main chain transactions can’t do millisats, only lightning, which is not an issue, since main chain will handle daily settlement between large institutions, not small transactions. Main chain only has enough block space for each person to make one transaction in a human lifetime, assuming worldwide adoption, but plenty enough for hundreds of banks to make daily settlements with each other. Lightning has an unlimited number of transactions, but would be more expensive for large ones (more than .1 BTC, though maybe not if we get multi path routing).

I doubt devs would propose a change to add millisats to main chain, because it would add more data to each transaction and decrease the number of transactions per block. Even if a dev proposed such a change, it would have to be adopted by both the miners AND the users running full nodes. Unless a change patches a bug, or adds critical privacy features like taproot (multi-sig, time locks, that are indistinguishable from single sig transactions), it is unlikely to be adopted.
 
Last edited:

Jamal D

Woodpecker
Agnostic
Another challenge in regards to the total pool of BTC is people dying off, losing backups/wallets etc. What will be be the solution to these matters when miners reach the 21 million limit? I wonder how much of the total BTC on the blockchain actually is lost...?
 

chance vought

Woodpecker
Protestant
Another challenge in regards to the total pool of BTC is people dying off, losing backups/wallets etc. What will be be the solution to these matters when miners reach the 21 million limit? I wonder how much of the total BTC on the blockchain actually is lost...?
The more valuable it becomes, the more likely people will secure it with multiple backups and multisig. Most was lost early on when there was no monetary value. Satoshi mined most of the first million into blind wallets with no private key. There is a minimum of 2 million BTC that can never be spent.

What it all means: less number of Bitcoin does not mean an actual asset was lost or destroyed, just the denominator was changed. When a Bitcoin is lost forever, everything priced in Bitcoin becomes cheaper FOR EVERYONE. A ribeye will cost fractionally less, and US dollars will be cheaper to buy with Bitcoin. If 99.9% of Bitcoin were lost forever, and only 1,000 Bitcoin were able to be spent on the entire network, there would still be 100 trillion millisats. Those could be further subdivided on lightning network if needed, without ever changing Bitcoin core coding.

In a world where governments hold family members for ransom or try to torture people for Bitcoin, the victims could simply destroy their private keys, benefiting all holders with more wealth, and denying any to government.
 
Top