If BTC does make it to the sort of valuations that you see bandied about, which it may, it won't be the only crypto to do so. To say it's just BTC vs Shitcoins is missing the point. Anyone who writes off all aspects of crypto because of eg meme coins will be missing a big investment opportunity. I've owned BTC for years but it's limited in its scope for adoption due to its compleity and use-case. I have a bigger holding in the cosmos ecosystem which has some very exciting projects that could go mainstream, ie with IRL products that joe public will understand and use daily without even knowing about the tech that underpins it. This is a different use case than BTC
The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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I agree with you in that not all others should be fully written off.
My problems:
1. How do you know which ones are the good ones? Which ones are the next Google or Amazon and how do you know they aren't the next FTX or Enron? I've learned that I don't really know how to discern this.
2. Bitcoin has a cult of people scattered around earth mining, owning it, with nodes everywhere, etc. It's like Facebook in that just creating "Facebook 2" isn't easy to attract a new global network.
Cosmos was created by some company called Tendermint. They can make changes to Cosmos, right?
You can't know which ones will make it, that's just not possible, and that includes BTC and ETH even now - no one knows where they will be price wise in 12 months. Anyone who says they can tell you this is misguided at best. Having said that, the same applies to the stock price of google etc
You can do your own research and try to identify projects (ie not standalone 'coins') you think have something about them that might succeed, as I did with cosmos, and take a punt.
Tendermint is behind IBC protocol - blockchain interoperability - and there's a lot of talented developers involved. Any major changes can't be done arbitrarily, they would need to be approved through governance proposals that Atom stakers can vote on.
Cosmos ($Atom) is good value compared to eg Solana or Polkadot in terms of market capitalisation, ie a lot of room for growth and seems very undervalued against them, but it's not perfect and the tokenomics probably need to be addressed before it can be a top 10 coin, but a new project called interchain security about to go live may address this issue
Given the upside potential(for example look at the early pages of this thread saying that BTC is high at $7 or whatever) I agree that the risk/reward ratio of throwing a few dollars at various interesting projects is not bad.
There is a lot of boom and bust especially outside of BTC/ETH, and my choices have not paid off very well there.
Feyoder
Pelican
I don't think anyone does in the short term. Experts or normies. Coins in the short term can be pumped for any number of reasons. Normies like the name, the pretty colors of the marketing, etc. Or an influencer mentions it.
Over the long term the fundamentals will matter. And, from what I've seen, that is borne out.
The FTX debacle made it seem to me like more of the "decent" looking altcoins are sketchy. Developers are in charge of the coin, or companies that created them. If they have the power to print the coin, then why are they any better than the Fed and USD? Ethereum is included in this criticism.
Robert High Hawk
Pelican
Brother brilliantly written.
It's amazing. Smart people know that the US is so utterly insolvent that there is mathematically no way out of this debt spiral. And they will shake their head all day and then look at some other side aspect of the economy to hyper analyze to eek out some short term profit or perhaps hyper focus on some fringe aspect that we can "reform".
Things are already getting ugly, and unless you've got a decent stack already, when bitcoin does scream up like a rocket, you won't be driving a Lambo, with 19 yr old Thots oh each side, you'll just be grateful you have bitcoin because it means you can live comfortably and not be desperately struggling like everyone else.
*That said I know there are some early stackers on this forum who have enough to get a Lambo with all the female trimmings. But honestly if you've been stacking early you know better than to buy a Lambo.
Robert High Hawk
Pelican
Took me a while but I'm the same, I could never see myself doing anything but HODLing the bitcoin these days.
To be honest my earlier statement was just a brief regurgitation of some bits of this podcast episode, highly recommend listening to the whole thing:
Michael Saylor | PBD Podcast | Ep. 212 - Valuetainment
FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on https://minnect.com/ Want to get clear on your next 5 business moves? https://valuetainment.com/academy/ PBD […]
valuetainment.com
Feyoder
Pelican
Crypto has the problem that really the worst people in the world seem to be the most interested in it at the moment. I hope this changes someday.
On the topic of Bitcoin SV, I went to the bitcoin.org website today to download the bitcoin core program. And saw this message:
Google searching it took me down a rabbit hole to this twitter thread where it explains how this man used legal trickery in the UK to get a default court judgement.
And then to the tweets by this crypto greaseball, shilling for BSV. This sleazebag is apparently the founder of the crypto news site "coingeek".
Later, google searching the hack on btc long time contributor Luke Dash Jr, brought me to this coingeek article: https://coingeek.com/not-your-keys-...henslee-discusses-luke-dashjr-losing-his-btc/. Where a "journalist" working for the site promotes the idea of a centralised currency as the only way to stop hackers (defeating the whole purpose of crypto).
I don't think these slime bags are organic and just "evolve" on their own. The oligarchs hate decentralisation.
Robert High Hawk
Pelican
Totally valid points but my only comment on that is to consider all that as completely natural in any open technology breakthrough. Take the internet:
In the early days of the internet it was a ridiculous wild west of mainly porn, child porn, endless spam with no blocks, slow connection speeds, and on and on. Remember when even AOL collapsed?
Bitcoin screens out a lot of low IQ actions. Lest you think I'm being arrogant, I'm happy to admit I've been somewhat played before (Blockfi). Nothing at all devastatingnting to me or my overall bitcoin holdings, but enough to teach me to just focus on the basics: buy bitcoin and hold it myself.
If any bitcoin service advertises any deviation to that core principle, then they are a fraud. There's plenty of incredibly well regarded bitcoin companies (swan, strike, to name a couple) whose owners believe in that core principle almost religiously. So why mess with other idiots? I'll tell you why because I did it myself: because you were greedy and wanted more. Maybe you wanted yield with nothing to back up.where it came.from, Maybe you wanted to be in on the "new bitcoin', maybe you wanted to shortsell it. but either way there's no reason to do.that and you'll get burned.
Buy and hold bitcoin *yourself*
That's it, that's all it comes down to.
Robert High Hawk
Pelican
In lieu of these bank failures, with a lot more to come...
This is why bitcoin was invented and we are seeing more people realize this
This is why bitcoin was invented and we are seeing more people realize this
Let's say we are right and we do get a 10x from here, or even a 50x. What is our off ramp? Will the Saylor "rich people" strategy exist, where you can collateralize it with someone/banks to get loans that are "tax freee"? Do we just eat the capital gains and ride the miner train for 3-5 years while BTC goes to 100k+ and the miners do a 15-20x? I think everyone should have already been custodian of some portion of real coinage, but asking about the other strategies to get you fiat in the meantime, for various reasons and everyday costs, etc.
No transactions occur on the block chain when you make transaction on a centralised exchange. The exchange holds assets in wallets and then has their own centralised account/record of who owns the assets. Changing those records in no different from editing a spreadsheet.
And a friendly reminder to all that you should be keeping your crypto on a hardware wallet rather than an exchange!
IM3000
Kingfisher
What are y'all's predictions about the final move down for BTC ... or will the type of market issue (banks, confidence) make for the final decoupling we've been waiting for?
I'll go first: One last move down to 15k. Then new ATHs either by the end of this year, or the highest of the trend in late 2024.
I'll go first: One last move down to 15k. Then new ATHs either by the end of this year, or the highest of the trend in late 2024.
Robert High Hawk
Pelican
My prediction: like you said there could be a big drop if everything collapses, maybe again into the teens, but honestly I think it's more likely that we don't get below 20k just because more and more big money and even nations must be realizing the jig is up.
I don't think people are fully appreciating that we had 5 bank failures in like 2 weeks.
In fact, the second largest SWISS Bank just folded. Switzerland. Remember their reputation when it comes to banks?
Deutsche Bank is probably next.
Even Schwab is look like it's got big problems. That is a massive financial company that handles people's retirements.
There's already huge panic behind the scenes, and essentially stealth bailouts are already happening. There was already a stealth bailout of Credit Suisse two months ago but it collapsed anyway.
So to answer your question on the upside, I don't know if we hit all time high this year, things will be choppy but more to the upside. Next year though.... absolutely.
Regardless of bitcoin, this current system is going through a collapse as we speak. They will have to print so much money it's going to make even covid printing seem small.
I mean I don't know what to say at this point. You need to bet on something. Bitcoin. Gold. Property. Rare watches.... all I know is that the dollar is fast on it's way to oblivion. So even if you don't invest in bitcoin, it honestly won't matter much compared to just saving it.
Maybe stonks will do well. For better or worse I'm going hard on bitcoin. Going to try out that multi-sig custodial solution but also have some on cold wallets and even paper wallets.