Yes, it is amazing when the golden handcuffs are finally removed. Unfortunately this tends to happen amidst other chaos, but it must be this way.
The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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Probably the best 30 minutes of Jeff Booth I have heard, starting at 1:03:00
TLDR; for the existing financial system to survive, the US and the rest of the world will be forced to become like China, by closing communication channels, and censorship. Nostr is the decentralized internet that can de risk that.
www.whatbitcoindid.com
TLDR; for the existing financial system to survive, the US and the rest of the world will be forced to become like China, by closing communication channels, and censorship. Nostr is the decentralized internet that can de risk that.
WBD Live in Bedford with Jeff Booth, James Lavish, Lawrence Lepard & Ben Arc — What Bitcoin Did
On the 14th of April What Bitcoin Did hosted a live show in Bedford. The guests were the founder of LNBits Ben Arc, CEO/Chairman of Ego Death Capital Jeff Booth, Investment Manager Lawrence Lepard and Macro analyst James Lavish. Across these interviews, we discussed Nostr, censorship-resistant marke
www.whatbitcoindid.com
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Also considering investing in BTC with their state fund.
www.bloomberg.com
Liechtenstein’s Government Plans to Accept Bitcoin for Payments
Liechtenstein’s government is planning to accept Bitcoin as payment for state services, Prime Minister Daniel Risch told German newspaper Handelsblatt.
www.bloomberg.com
Robert High Hawk
Pelican
I've been thinking a lot about NOSTR and that I need to get on it soon. I'll be getting a new and capable phone and when I do I'll probably start a NOSTR account first thing. Booth is unreservedly convinced that is the future.Probably the best 30 minutes of Jeff Booth I have heard, starting at 1:03:00
TLDR; for the existing financial system to survive, the US and the rest of the world will be forced to become like China, by closing communication channels, and censorship. Nostr is the decentralized internet that can de risk that.
WBD Live in Bedford with Jeff Booth, James Lavish, Lawrence Lepard & Ben Arc — What Bitcoin Did
On the 14th of April What Bitcoin Did hosted a live show in Bedford. The guests were the founder of LNBits Ben Arc, CEO/Chairman of Ego Death Capital Jeff Booth, Investment Manager Lawrence Lepard and Macro analyst James Lavish. Across these interviews, we discussed Nostr, censorship-resistant marke
Just listened to Mike Green interview on Triggernometry "Is Bitcoin Bullsh*t?"
I think it's a good thing that people like him don't understand Bitcoin on a fundamental level, and get confused with "but blockchain, that has a future!"
He also claims most people don't know what money is, then demonstrates his own ignorance by describing what exists now as the very definition.
Describes Bitcoiners as "feeling special" for invalid reasons (because we think we understand something that most people don't).
Just lifted my spirits, that supposed experts have not done the work, and it shows.
I think it's a good thing that people like him don't understand Bitcoin on a fundamental level, and get confused with "but blockchain, that has a future!"
He also claims most people don't know what money is, then demonstrates his own ignorance by describing what exists now as the very definition.
Describes Bitcoiners as "feeling special" for invalid reasons (because we think we understand something that most people don't).
Just lifted my spirits, that supposed experts have not done the work, and it shows.
He's a good example of someone that is rare, in that he understands many topics quite well, but he's got a HUGE blindspot. Do you know the other area of expertise (Green is pretty good with overall history and financial everything) that has a good amount of smart people that have a huge blindspot? The geopolitical "experts" that you are supposed to take for understanding and thus should be able to make predictions of some sort, but denied the reality of what covid was (scam, manipulation, and fraud on many levels). Mike got taken to school a couple years back by Nic Carter, when he made huge claims about China doing something soon that he suggested would crash BTC (he teased it by saying "I'm not prepared to say it right now" - and guess what, it never happened lol), while he also has been one of the Tether FUDs.
It's been clear to me for some time that even really smart people are quite locked in to the legacy system, mostly because they made their money on it, and can't stand the idea of it going away. You'll see historically people make fun of Green for this, where the young generation was totally scammed, and he was a sharp boomer who could make it happen because back then you could, but blames the younger people for actually understanding and adopting the only thing that gives them a shot. I'm happy to say that not only it gives them a chance, but it also is the right side of freedom and advancement, which is opposed to the usurious scam system the western world has been promoting for centuries, at least in European and post Euro civilization.
It's pretty hilarious and telling how you guys reflexively say that anyone who criticizes Bitcoin "has a blind spot" or "doesn't get it", as if it's utterly inconceivable that anyone could have an informed and yet negative opinion of Bitcoin. And this is not to single you all out, because this is the case with basically everyone in the Bitcoin sphere. But you would do well to take a step back and analyze the psychology at play here, hopefully recognizing the enormous overlap with the psychology of a religion or cult movement, because that's what Bitcoin resembles, more than anything else.
Remember, at the end of the day, the only thing that gives Bitcoin value is the belief that Bitcoin has value. There is no value inherent in the BTC blockchain. There simply isn't. The only "value" Bitcoin has lies in the ability to sell it in the future at a higher price than that which you paid. Which is why everyone who holds Bitcoin is forced to adopt this strange, cult-like mentality that immediately dismisses criticism, and which seeks public validation from fellow true believers. The fact of the matter is that all of these pro-Bitcoin talking points you guys endlessly spout and reassure each other with are just rationalizations for a desire to make large amounts of money. It's completely transparent that you sit here cheering for some sort of monetary collapse and reset to a BTC standard because you view this as the only way you're going to get ahead financially.
You're letting legitimate criticisms and frustrations with our current economic reality color your perception of Bitcoin and bias your decision making in its favor, because the idea of Bitcoin is romantic and compelling, and the possibility of becoming wealthy overnight is too tempting to pass up. But at the end of the day, you're simply invested in (and promoting) a pyramid scheme, which creates no value and which relies entirely on new participants entering the market and purchasing Bitcoin to keep the price afloat. This is not even factoring in the obvious scam of Tether, which has massively inflated the price of Bitcoin, along with the regular wash trading that goes on.
You can call me a hater or say I just have a blind spot or don't get it. But really, I'm just trying to keep you all from falling completely into an echo chamber and losing a lot of money. 99% of the money that will ever be made in Bitcoin has already been made. It's 2023, not 2013. There will be no 1000x. There won't even be a 10x. At some point, everyone in Bitcoin is going to look around and realize they're all just holding the bag for the previous guy. Don't let yourself be one of those guys.
Remember, at the end of the day, the only thing that gives Bitcoin value is the belief that Bitcoin has value. There is no value inherent in the BTC blockchain. There simply isn't. The only "value" Bitcoin has lies in the ability to sell it in the future at a higher price than that which you paid. Which is why everyone who holds Bitcoin is forced to adopt this strange, cult-like mentality that immediately dismisses criticism, and which seeks public validation from fellow true believers. The fact of the matter is that all of these pro-Bitcoin talking points you guys endlessly spout and reassure each other with are just rationalizations for a desire to make large amounts of money. It's completely transparent that you sit here cheering for some sort of monetary collapse and reset to a BTC standard because you view this as the only way you're going to get ahead financially.
You're letting legitimate criticisms and frustrations with our current economic reality color your perception of Bitcoin and bias your decision making in its favor, because the idea of Bitcoin is romantic and compelling, and the possibility of becoming wealthy overnight is too tempting to pass up. But at the end of the day, you're simply invested in (and promoting) a pyramid scheme, which creates no value and which relies entirely on new participants entering the market and purchasing Bitcoin to keep the price afloat. This is not even factoring in the obvious scam of Tether, which has massively inflated the price of Bitcoin, along with the regular wash trading that goes on.
You can call me a hater or say I just have a blind spot or don't get it. But really, I'm just trying to keep you all from falling completely into an echo chamber and losing a lot of money. 99% of the money that will ever be made in Bitcoin has already been made. It's 2023, not 2013. There will be no 1000x. There won't even be a 10x. At some point, everyone in Bitcoin is going to look around and realize they're all just holding the bag for the previous guy. Don't let yourself be one of those guys.
What you say may play out, but it may not.
It has been established that a fiat standard is perfectly workable, and it has operational benefits over a gold standard. I don't know if you are in favour of a gold standard? If so there isn't a huge difference between the bubble that would cause and Bitcoin's 'lack of intrinsic value'. A gold standard is going to require something like a $10K-20K premium of an ounce of gold above it's intrinsic economic value. If something like that happens then there is going to be a huge wealth transfer to gold bugs who have done no work.
The issue is with the fiat standard is not that it doesn't work, but that it's always abused. The gold standard was also abused.
The value of Bitcoin is that it can't be abused.
A fiat standard is printed away and a gold standard can be manipulated or removed.
Once a BTC standard is established, then why would anyone want to move to one that can be debassed and syphoned out of, confiscated or turned off?
I don't see a more superior form of base money, which is what I see BTC as. The other option is use the IMFs new CBDC as the base money for national currencies. Or the central banks buy gold, create a gold standard and redistribute wealth to themselves. At least in the first option the distribution is to primarily straight young males who are against the regime.
Yes it does resemble religion, in many ways. Learning about it changes lives, for the better. Bitcoin opens the door to improving health, relationships, and lowering time preference. The overwhelming majority of ”Bitcoiners” have improved their lives, by learning not to trust anything, but to verify everything for themselves.
Yes, this is the definition of money, in this case, one that has a 100% monetary premium. What gives the USD value? The belief that other people value it. The same thing that gave rai stones, glass beads, cowry shells, silver, and gold value. That’s what money is, a uniquely human abstraction that happens to be a technology that makes civilization possible.
It allows individuals to move money without borders, without censorship, and without permission, and completely without theft by confiscation or inflation. Once the data is written it is immutable, with no denial of service attack, no way to block it. You could inscribe data for 3d printed guns, and it is there for the world, forever.
No, a monetary collapse will make most people much poorer, including Bitcoiners. A world without Bitcoin surely would have such a collapse, possibly ending with a nuclear Armageddon. The best scenario would be adoption before a collapse. That would be a “soft landing”. A slow bleed out of the current government bond ponzi. Personally, I hope Bitcoin succeeds so we have a better world, where people aren’t stolen from by the Parasite class, not because I think I will be wealthy. I accept that it could take 50 years, or even 100 years. Not exactly get rich quick.
Yes, I struggle with this. How can I remain objective? I try to listen to the counter arguments, but I have yet to hear any that change my perception…they only strengthen it, because those arguments remind me of my previous way of thinking.
Does money “create value”?. Do government bonds? Does government “generate revenue”? Correct, Bitcoin doesn’t create value, just as gold does not create value. You are 100% correct: if people stop buying Bitcoin, the price will collapse. Where I am sure we differ: in my view, ever increasing numbers of people will buy Bitcoin, because it will benefit them. Then more, and more, forever. It is scarce, can be moved anywhere, and can’t be stolen. It is the ultimate in private property. Dollars will buy less, year after year, while Bitcoin buys more, year after year. It isn’t creating value, it just has value, because it enables people to coordinate with each other and protect themselves.
I welcome your input. I don’t think you have the depth of understanding of it that I do. For example, I don’t think of it as an investment, or as a way to “make money.” I never plan on selling a superior money for an inferior one. I don’t think in terms of its price in fiat. It makes less sense as this transition happens. It’s like thinking of the price of gold marks in terms of paper marks in 1922. Or the price of dollars, denominated in flat screen tvs. Pricing a scarce asset in terms of a rapidly producible commodity is nonsensical. In Bitcoin terms, everything, including the dollar, is a rapidly producible commodity, since Bitcoin is the most scarce. Everything, in Bitcoin terms, goes down in price, forever.
In a way, maybe it is a pyramid scheme, but one that never ends. It continues to accrue economic value, over centuries. All the inferior money substitutes collapse into it. There is no mass exodus of people “cashing out”. People in Argentina aren’t cashing out of dollars into the Argentine peso, it’s the other way round. Compared to Bitcoin, the USD is the Argentine Peso
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I own a small amount of bitcoin, as well as precious metals. Way more metals, and other useful items. I think it's silly to think Buffett doesn't understand Bitcoin. I think he does, and he understands the System.. The system will not allow us to use bitcoin when the USDC comes out. Think about covid, the System convinced regular people to deny you the ability to buy food if you didn't wear a mask. They refused medical care. If I can't use it to buy food, gas, medical supplies, what good is it? The System is going to shut down any business that accepts bitcoin. They will steal a businesses money if they don't comply. Its already been done, no one cared. Remember the truckers in Canada? I understand bitcoin, I know it isn't a security, I understand the blockchain. But again, if I can't use it to survive, what good is it?
Nor could you have used gold (legally) in 1933…better get rid of those precious metals! You won’t be allowed to use them!
I agree with you though…Bitcoin isn’t going to help you survive — you need other things for that, to get you through what is coming, to the other side.
Having something left when it’s over is the goal. That’s what Bitcoin is good for, keeping family wealth secure until it can be safely used.
If you haven’t read the novel The Mandibles, do it. I think many in this thread will find it interesting.
Yes the Canadian truckers. The only money that ever reached them was Bitcoin. Go fund me tried to steal the donations, give send go could not send it to a Canadian bank….70% of the Bitcoin donations got through (mistakes were made, or it would have been 100%) Probably because theBitcoin fund was set up before the government attack on banking started. No one really anticipated a Chinese style crackdown from a western government. Precautions weren’t taken, but that won’t happen again.
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How are you going to use it if it becomes unlawful to use? You can hand gold to a merchant in order to trade, as people did in 1933. You can't hand him bitcoin. Yes bitcoin reached the truckers, but there has been no clampdown yet. As I said I own BTC, but I think it will be worthless once everyone goes all in, lockstep, with USDC. I could be wrong, time will tell.
No, people did not, at least in the US, from 1933 to 1973. Executive order 6102.
Executive Order 6102 required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $433 in 2021)[5] per troy ounce. Under the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, as amended by the recently passed Emergency Banking Act of March 9, 1933, a violation of the order was punishable by fine up to $10,000 (equivalent to $209,000 in 2021),[5] up to ten years in prison, or both.
I know what the order is. People did it anyway. That should not be hard for you to believe. No point arguing over it. You believe everyone responds to government threats and I don't.
why would it be different for Bitcoin? You just asked how to use it, if it is unlawful, then say that people won’t respond to government threats.
Your argument is that people will be fine using gold illegally, but not Bitcoin?
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Yes, the government battle against Bitcoin hasn’t started yet. Everyone is prepared to fight the previous war, especially government. Bitcoin is the technology that transforms the battlefield in terms of defense. The attacker will hurt only themselves, and with every attack, Bitcoin becomes stronger, more resilient. China ban: 2 years later, the overall hash rate has tripled, and is more decentralized than before. A government with the most control over the most people on Earth fought against it, and it got more resilience, and 3x the digital defenses.
Every government that attacks Bitcoin will become weaker, and Bitcoin will become stronger for being attacked. It will be like the cavalry charges into the machine gun nests of WW1, or plate mail armored knights, attacking fusiliers. Once-powerful governments will either adopt Bitcoin, or destroy themselves by attacking it, just as once-powerful, seemingly invincible armies were crushed by a new technology.
Governments that adopt it will flourish. Look to El Salvador…even though they’ve “lost money” on Bitcoin, the murder capital of the world now has a rate lower than the United States. All the experts said they would default on their bonds, and they paid them.
USDC is nothing but a bank account. The same counterparty risk, censorship, centralized honey pot and inflation theft of the same system we have…not what I would call a threat. On the contrary, just like fiat currency, it will be a de facto Bitcoin marketing campaign. USDC looks great if you are using the Zimbabwe dollar or Turkish lira, but compared to Bitcoin, it looks like those other trash fiats.
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Bitcoin is savings technology. It does not need to make poor people wealthy. It does not need to appreciate 200%/yr for it to succeed. 0% is a success. If it buys the same thing 15 years from now as today, it is still a resounding success, when the only alternative savings technology will buy only half what it can now in the same time period.
The entire world is starving for a way to simply save their wealth, without it leaking out. Bitcoin is a perfect clay pot to keep your water in for when the rains don’t come, while the alternatives are wicker baskets.
The entire world is starving for a way to simply save their wealth, without it leaking out. Bitcoin is a perfect clay pot to keep your water in for when the rains don’t come, while the alternatives are wicker baskets.
This is because the government doesn't view Bitcoin as a threat. Why would it matter to them if Bitcoin is worth $26,000 or $260,000? It's a terrible currency.
El Salvador is in bad financial shape. It's also obvious that they are manipulating their murder rates.
Agreed, most do not perceive the threat. Most are too old, with crystallized intelligence unable to adapt to this new paradigm. It takes a younger brain. The Popes and Cardinals had no idea that Gutenbergs printing press would diminish the power of the church from nearly all powerful, to almost no power, in a generation. Centralized knowledge became decentralized. Concentrated power gave way to individual autonomy. From the ashes arose the free-est, wealthiest nation the world has ever known.
Why is it terrible?
Probably true, but can anyone legitimately claim they are worse off now versus 3 years ago?
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