The Bitcoin (BTC) thread

[BURNΞR]

Can anyone think of another example of a supposedly "world-changing" technology that existed for well over a decade, which spread all over the world and became known to every curious and intelligent person, but which accomplished essentially nothing in that time except to separate people from their money? Because that's the story of Bitcoin thus far. When contrasted with every other great invention of mankind, it falls laughably and pathetically short.

I'm hearing this a lot recently since the AI craze got started month ago. Yes AI tech coming out is impressive and continues to make my life more convenient. Many are now saying that BTC/Crypto is worthless in comparison. I would still push back here strongly. While AI tech is deflationary it doesn't prevent you from being a slave to the fiat monetary system. So far nothing I can think of tech wise helps you opt out of the system or prevents debasement or confiscation of your money. If you don't think that isn't a big deal I don't know what I can say to convince you.

chance vought, you continue to speak of Bitcoin in utopian, borderline theological language. There is no debating a zealot. You believe all of this as an article of faith. You believe that Bitcoin has the power to transform the economy of the entire world, despite having no compelling evidence that it will do so besides flowery language.

Potentially it can but I guess we have to wait and see. There is evidence that BTC has the power to change an individual's life. It can protect one from debasement of his currency, censorship and confiscation. I really do not know if this would bring a better world or potentially bring a worse one.

In contrast, in defense of fiat (a flawed but useful tool), I present as my argument the entire modern world. It exists. It's a workable system that somehow manages the productive labor of billions of people and distributes goods and services across the entire globe. There's absolutely room for improvement, but there's utterly no reason to believe that Bitcoin is the answer any more than than Litecoin or Ethereum or some unknown future cryptocurrency.

there is no incentive to improve when your system is a monopoly, central banks do not compete. As for your assertion that the fiat system works, nobody can argue with it because there is no counter factual. I can't point to another universe or simulation of another earth civilization where they have a BTC or ETH system. Nobody can argue with the fact that the fiat monetary system is the most widespread, dominant system and government love it because the can control people best through it. If you aren't close to the money printer and can't take advantage of it you probably want something like bitcoin

It's difficult to talk about money because at the end of the day, money is essentially nothing more than a collective social fiction. It's a story we all tell ourselves. "This piece of paper has value. This collection of 1s and 0s has value." But none of it is real, in either case. It's just a tool we use to fairly track and allocate resources and labor. And ultimately, civilization depends on the efficient allocation of resources and labor to survive and thrive. Money is just the means by which we do so, and the fiat system has proven itself capable of efficiently allocating the resources and labor we rely upon to maintain our complex modern civilization. Bitcoin has no track record, and in its short existence has offered not even a compelling glimpse of potential in this regard. Rather, it has served entirely as a vehicle of speculation and greed, carrying along with it an assortment of religious fanatics who continue to tirelessly hail it as the monetary messiah.

Again, there is no counter factual, until there is. It would be similar to someone saying electrical Tesla cars have no track record, etc, until there is one and it gains traction. Now we are in a world where countries around the planet are trying to replace all their gas powered cars with electrical ones. Now, I am not saying that Bitcoin is somehow an approximation of an electrical car, I am saying people are adopting this technology as a means to prevent their money from being debased/confiscated/stolen/etc and every year there are more people waking up to it as its network becomes bigger, more wide spread, and it becomes conceivable that this network rivals or overtakes the fiat monetary system. I am just conjecturing here, I am not saying this will happen.

BTC is still the best performing asset vehicle in recorded history and based on the evidence it comes to no surprise that it will continue to go up in fiat price because it is the numerator in this equation where fiat is the denominator going toward zero as it has historically done, many times. 21 million BTC over fiat whose values trends toward zero as it is debased every year forever until it dies. This is not a faith claim but rather of conviction when you look at the vast empiracle evidence (history) of dead fiat currencies or living ones that have lost over 98% of their original value.

 

[Gimlet]

Truckers wouldn't have got the donations without BTC, conversion to local sodomy dollars deemed a necessity to use it only due to the debased regime in Canada. The trucker situation is the specific kind of reason such things are needed.

How do you know they got the donations? How did they receive them? Were they already bitcoin savvy? How did BTC go from your donation to a trucker's gas station or grocery store? If they exchanged it for fiat, how? This is the practical application of BTC in the real world, one that people tout. So why can't I get a straight answer? For all I know some shyster set up a donation account and absconded with all the BTC.

 

[chance vought]

How do you know they got the donations? How did they receive them? Were they already bitcoin savvy? How did BTC go from your donation to a trucker's gas station or grocery store? If they exchanged it for fiat, how? This is the practical application of BTC in the real world, one that people tout. So why can't I get a straight answer? For all I know some shyster set up a donation account and absconded with all the BTC.

The people involved in the multisig were well known, and some were too high profile to send police with a search warrant (at least one was not too high profile!)
The Bitcoin was distributed on foot, in person via paper wallets.
Obviously it wasn't used to buy gas and slim Jim's... most of the recipients had no experience with Bitcoin, so this was a project for them for later, not to support the continuing protests. There was much debate on the best way to use the donations...buying supplies and indirectly supporting the protest, or giving it directly to the truckers. It was determined that the most useful and impact full way was to give the donations directly to them.

Once they had the Bitcoin, it was up to the individual what to do with it... No one followed up and asked what they did with the donations...thats poor form, not to mention poor opsec.

Since I was donating weekly, I followed the project with some interest.

BTC Sessions was one of the multi sig, so try to find a podcast where he talks about what happened. Also Greg Foss was one of the original holders, but backed out once the government declared it illegal, but he also knows most of what happened after. If you are truly curious, the information is out there.

 

[chance vought]

Bitcoin is a defense against AI, maybe the only defense. You could require, for instance, everyone who communicates with you to pay a small fee, in sats, on a network you choose (such as nostr).

An AI used for phishing, spam, or social nudging now has only limited power (limited by the amount of Bitcoin it has) instead of unlimited.

You then create an environment where the cost of violating trust far exceeds the rewards.

 

[Blade Runner]

Nobody can argue with the fact that the fiat monetary system is the most widespread, dominant system and government love it because the can control people best through it. If you aren't close to the money printer and can't take advantage of it you probably want something like bitcoin

It is bizarre on this forum that we all know this to be true, obvious, and a matter of fact that we all take for granted. BTC comes along and solves, or potentially solves this problem. A huge problem - arguably the biggest problem in the (material) world. And the naysayers here act like it's not a tremendous innovation. Unbelievable.

Let's put it another way: If you are a central planner, you're laughing while Scorpion and Gimlet fight against others, since they are literally doing the bidding of the central planners - whether they know it or not. Look at this objectively guys, come on! Who is encouraging the recognition of the abuse and repression of the elites, and who is arguing for them to keep the status quo by quashing a potential solution?

This makes the position one should have very, very obvious. I'm flabbergasted at the lack of basic, reasonable application and vision here. I think it's actually quite sad.

 

[chance vought]

@Blade Runner I thought about this recently, when @scorpion brought up the ”religion of Bitcoin”.
Like finding God, seeing Him, you can’t push someone who has never seen Him into it, it’s more of a pull. Living for God is more likely to let people find God, and see Him.

Seeing Him, is the realization that we aren’t lonely ships on an empty ocean…we are His hands, eyes, and heart. We are cells in His body…or, nodes on a network.

God is truth, and through his eyes, one can see the truth, where before it was hard to see.

Bitcoin is truth. In the same way, through the lens of Bitcoin, one can see the truth, compared to before, when it was hidden.

Bitcoin connects us in cooperation, on a network, in the similar way that we are all on Gods network. Those that allow God to work through them benefit not only themselves, but everyone around them. Bitcoin is the same: those that use it benefit themselves, and everyone else on the network. There is no zero-sum to everyone else. People who have not seen Him are not harmed by those that do. People who have not seen Bitcoin are not harmed by those that do.

All things come from God. Human creativity, and therefore Bitcoin, came from Him. Just as fire changed us, so will Bitcoin.

 

[murphykj930]

All things come from God. Human creativity, and therefore Bitcoin, came from Him. Just as fire changed us, so will Bitcoin.

There’s tons of things invented by men that God wouldn’t condone. Porn. Meth. Trannys. We’ll just have to see how this plays out.

 

[Blade Runner]

That's why intent matters. And still God allows the other things, something we usually can't understand fully, except that we do realize that we must be tested/tempted in order to be "saved" or made holy.

 

[chance vought]

Border Wallets…a new way to commit your seed to memory, using pattern recognition, rather than trying to memorize 12 or 24 words. Humans are much better at remembering patterns and picture than words. This makes is much easier to commit your seed to memory.

TLDR; produce a randomized matrix with a bunch of seed words that you can then pick a pattern with, and just memorize the pattern, very easy! This matrix can be backed up and recovered using 12 seed words! So, you could backup the matrix recovery phrase in a password manager, and even if that were compromised, the attacker just has a matrix containing 2048 seed words, but does not know the specific pattern you use to find the correct ones. You could also create a matrix within a matrix (within a matrix), inception style, where the first layer seed produces a new matrix, which is the actual one that is used to recover the actual Bitcoin wallet. Or for inheritance, you could include the seed for the matrix in the will, and leave the actual pattern for the Bitcoin wallet with your heirs.
Very interesting use cases that I plan to include. Since Covid I have been “war gaming” how to leave the country without permission if it became necessary. Having this as a tool, in addition to having an encrypted backup on an SD card in a camera or phone, makes getting out with your wealth intact that much easier.

Bitcoin Border Wallets

New Technology for Self-Sovereignty

mathewaldred.substack.com

 

[chance vought]

Another interview with Roman Sterlingov’s attorneys.

Even though he’s been charged with a federal crime, he’s being kept in a for-profit state prison in Virginia (owned by 2 judges.)
Many of the scum in the DOJ are profiteering by getting lucrative jobs with Chainalysis or having a vested financial interest.
Unconstitutionally charged and prosecuted in Washington DC.
And of course, DOJ prosecutors have immunity from being prosecuted themselves.

“What should scare the f*** out of everybody involved with Bitcoin here is, if that’s accurate, if they can get federal criminal jurisdiction by simply doing that, that means that any prosecutor in the United States can sit down at a laptop, go to your website,… type out a message - you don’t know about it - and then they can arrest you and try you in Wisconsin, in DC, in Boston, in Texas, in Podunk Louisiana”

— Tor Ekeland

The Case of Roman Sterlingov with Tor Ekeland & Mike Hassard — What Bitcoin Did

Tor Ekeland & Mike Hassard are defence attorneys representing a Swedish-Russian national, Roman Sterlingov, arrested in early 2021 by the IRS at LAX. He was accused of creating and operating the Bitcoin Fog mixing service to launder over $300 million. He had his assets seized and was incarce

www.whatbitcoindid.com