The carnivore diet thread

Are you on the carnivore diet?

  • *grunts in the affirmative*

    Votes: 43 64.2%
  • No, I am gey.

    Votes: 24 35.8%

  • Total voters
    67
I’ve been living off of sardines and sausages from my local HEB, and queso from work without any noticeable issues. I think most would be fine compared to most diets on conventional beef. Granted, the sardines are wild caught.
 

Australia Sucks

Kingfisher
I do not get the point of an extreme carnivore diet (for somebody that does not have specific health issues). If one gets say 50% of their calories from animal products (meat, dairy, eggs, chicken, fish, etc) while simultaneously minimizing carbohydrates, and virtually eliminating grains you will probably get the benefit of 80 - 90% of a strict carnivore diet while having a sustainable diet which is more varied, more sociable and easy to stick to long-term.
 

Winston84

Pigeon
FullThrottleTX said:
Perfect vs. good enough. Eating a conventionally raised steak and some eggs is way healthier than the typical American diet. By a huge margin. You're nit picking on minor things.

You want perfect nutrition. I want good enough nutrition. Because I know that nutritional science is mostly bogus. And I don't like being ripped off.

Important to note, I'm a high earner. I can certainly afford grass fed meat, I just don't see how it's justified. No matter what, unless you eat liver (good luck with that, it's nasty), you will likely need to supplement on the carnivore diet. Humans haven't evolved to be carnivores (obviously). It's either taking electrolyte powder, or a multivitamin, or both - Joe Rogan supplemented heavily, moreso than I did. It's one reason why unlike a lot of people trying the diet, I had no ill bodily effects (no diarrhea and little keto fatigue).

The article I posted has a lot of good graphs, if you check them out. I think there are others out there that aren't framing it in terms of body building.

Also, a misnomer that grass-fed beef is "higher quality" than grain-fed beef. By what metric? They are eating different things, yes. But taste is important. There's a reason we feed cows grains, the flavor profile is way better.

1 - Cattle are fed grain because it fattens them up quickly and you need less land to feed them. Its about commercial yields, nothing else. There is a reason why the Japs also load their cattle up with grain, beer and other carbs in the final year of their lives.

2 - If you dont care about what goes into your body or where your food is really sourced from then thats your choice. It does not change the fact that the nutritional profile between grass fed and grain fed is pretty significant and trying to downplay that to suit a choice you prefer to make is being disingenuous on your part. Its not minor differences either, they are significant differences WHEN ITS YOUR PRIMARY SOURCE OF NUTRITION

3 - I prefer grass fed which is more typical of what we get in Aus and what we have grown up with. Same with New Zealand, the UK and Latin America tends to be grass fed. In some cases they are grain finished but the taste difference is noticeable when it is and its sold as low cost meat for a reason. It tastes like shit to me. You dont need to hunt down grass fed meat in Aus supermarkets, its just premium grade meat. The budget shit is grain fed. And like New Zealand, we export it for a reason across Asia. The US food industry is the stuff of nightmares IMO.

4 - If I am eating a highly restrictive diet, I want to make sure what I am eating is the most nutritious it can be. Supplements are mostly crap. If you saw what sort of process the average multivitamin goes through before it hits the shelves you would never stick another one in your mouth ever again. And given how they provide little to no benefit at all they are a complete waste of time.

5 - Feel free to do things however you like, but save the cope fest and lets not try and change the facts of the matter so that you can feel better about the choices you prefer to make. You want to save a buck and prefer the taste of grain fed factory farmed cattle? Best of luck to you.

6 - Thanks for the graphs, but they lack context and for the most part sharing that article was retarded because it was completely irrelevant
 
Andreas said:
I'm either wildly uneducated or this guy seems to be begging to be hospitalized.

Anyway, here are my two cents on nutrition. I eat plants and meats as well. What I noticed was that heavy carbs during the afternoon makes me feel sluggish, except when I eat a salad or something like that. I was born and raised on the Mediterranean diet so maybe I was meant to consume both. My body and my mind work best like that.

Whatever, the thing I am 100% sure about is that no matter what I eat, if I don't chew on it enough times, I am more likely to feel tired and I suspect not getting enough nutrients out of it.

On another note, for guys who eat meat very often or all the time, how do you determine the quality? Doesn't that depend on what your food is eating and the living conditions? I would imagine that chicken would be more healthy when it's raised in a back yard as opposed to mass produced.

Certain parts even from mainstream beef is absolutely safe for raw consumption. Beef tartare is eaten around the world and you don't even have to take the most expensive meat for it.

I mentioned that you can make it even safer by freezing beef before. I buy raw organ meats and freeze them anyway. It's not necessary for beef. However - there are meats that do have more issues like pork which explains why some religions banned it. There is a reason why spare ribs need best to be for hours in an oven. Beef however is not the issue.

Also I might add - even mainstream nutrition science says that you can eat almost all parts of the cow. Strangely enough ground beef is the worst, because the industry can cover up anything in it - feces, non-beef meat added etc.
 
Carnivore Jordan B Peterson can't get off drugs.

Peterson family on carnivore diet:
* wife got cancer
* husband addicted to drugs

A long fall from that Joe Rogan podcast where he proclaimed his carnivore diet made him feel better.
 

mehdreamer

Sparrow
Genghis Khan said:
Carnivore Jordan B Peterson can't get off drugs.

Peterson family on carnivore diet:
* wife got cancer
* husband addicted to drugs

A long fall from that Joe Rogan podcast where he proclaimed his carnivore diet made him feel better.

Carnivore is good for loss-weight, basically few months tops..but can't be sustainable forever. You need those juicy veggies ans carbs..
 
mehdreamer said:
Genghis Khan said:
Carnivore Jordan B Peterson can't get off drugs.

Peterson family on carnivore diet:
* wife got cancer
* husband addicted to drugs

A long fall from that Joe Rogan podcast where he proclaimed his carnivore diet made him feel better.

Carnivore is good for loss-weight, basically few months tops..but can't be sustainable forever. You need those juicy veggies ans carbs..

Agreed, that's why as a PSA I'll be posting here every time a carnivore has devastating health issues. We should see quite a few in the next coming years.

Carnivore and Keto diets imo are going to go the route of Atkins and Paleo (the Keto/Carnivore diets' predecessors). People will lose weight for the first year or two, most will gain eventually gain it all back and onto the next fad diet they'll come.

It's interesting to see this forum and the manosphere at large move from Paleo to Keto to Carnivore. I remember when people were proclaiming paleo was the bees' knees. I expect the same for the carni crowd. Especially the raw carni crowd - no better than the raw vegan crowd - should be fascinating to watch in the next decade.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Well I'm not consistent enough to qualify as a success story or a flaming wreck on any time frame. I cheat on the diet, not often, but often enough that I can't credit it entirely for any extreme benefits or drawbacks I experience.

I think I'm verging more toward the Mongol diet which I'm loosely presuming is carnivorous with dairy added.
 

void

Pelican
Genghis Khan said:
mehdreamer said:
Genghis Khan said:
Carnivore Jordan B Peterson can't get off drugs.

Peterson family on carnivore diet:
* wife got cancer
* husband addicted to drugs

A long fall from that Joe Rogan podcast where he proclaimed his carnivore diet made him feel better.

Carnivore is good for loss-weight, basically few months tops..but can't be sustainable forever. You need those juicy veggies ans carbs..

Agreed, that's why as a PSA I'll be posting here every time a carnivore has devastating health issues. We should see quite a few in the next coming years.

Carnivore and Keto diets imo are going to go the route of Atkins and Paleo (the Keto/Carnivore diets' predecessors). People will lose weight for the first year or two, most will gain eventually gain it all back and onto the next fad diet they'll come.

It's interesting to see this forum and the manosphere at large move from Paleo to Keto to Carnivore. I remember when people were proclaiming paleo was the bees' knees. I expect the same for the carni crowd. Especially the raw carni crowd - no better than the raw vegan crowd - should be fascinating to watch in the next decade.
I think the takeaway is to avoid a diet with a high amount of simple carbs.
 
Yeah I'm of the opinion that paleo/keto/carnivore can help with weight loss and improving dietary habits in the short term. But I am skeptical of long term health effects.

One thing that many people miss is the idea of calorie density (also known as volumetrics). It's a theory based on the work of Barbara Rolls at Penn State University and showed that people tend to eat the same volume of food on a daily basis. Some eat more volume, some eat less and it would explain the differences we see in people in terms of body weight.

Volumetrics imo is a very useful tool to understand diets. For example, oils are 4000 cal/pound. Junk food is 2300 calories/pound. Processed carbs are 1400 calories per pound. Fatty protein on the other hand is only 1000 calories/pound.

If you have a diet filled with oils and processed carbs/junk food and you switch it to a carnivore/keto/paleo diet which cuts out oils and junk food, you're going to lose weight.

This website has a very useful chart, made by Jeff Novick:

https://www.drcarney.com/blog/entry/calorie-density-key-to-weight-loss

[attachment=43043]

This chart has pretty much explained everything I've seen about diets. It explains why raw vegans get into starvation mode: you need to eat foods with a calorie density of 400 calories/pound on average as a minimum and raw vegans are hitting 100-200 calories/pound.

It also explains why junk food vegans get fat.

It explains why paleo was a success (at least in the short term) for many people as they cut out junk food and oils. Though lifestyle changes are often hard to maintain on restrictive diets and a few cheat bags of potato chips (refined carbs and oils) can easily revert any short term weight loss.

Also, worth noting that potato chips, pizzas, french fries, etc have more fat calories than carb calories. People consuming these products fit well in the "fat makes you fat" model that goes with calories in, calories out theory, even though most people would think of potato chips as carbs. If you think potato chips are fattening you because of the carbs, it's worth doing the math on what percentage actually is carbs.

This is why I always thought P D Mangan was a clown, for calling donuts plant-based, which although technically correct, really missed the point of what the plant-based whole food thing is about.

The chart also explains keto and carnivore in terms of weight loss, though I do believe there are long term negative effects to eating animal products in large quantities.

It even explains GOMAD, the gallon of milk thing that hardgainers are adviced to do. Milk is 50% fat, which would mean approximately 2000 calories/pound.

Barbara Rolls also demonstrated that liquid calories aren't filling at all. Turns out liquid calories don't hit your satiety levels at all.

So milk ends up being a great way to get a massive amount of calories in. And heavily processed drinks like Starbucks coffees will make you fat as they contains calories, but don't work on your satiety levels.

I highly recommend everyone check out the plot above and if you're struggling with weight, to ask yourself if that chart might explain everything.
 

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Johnnyvee

Pelican
void said:
Genghis Khan said:
mehdreamer said:
Genghis Khan said:
Carnivore Jordan B Peterson can't get off drugs.

Peterson family on carnivore diet:
* wife got cancer
* husband addicted to drugs

A long fall from that Joe Rogan podcast where he proclaimed his carnivore diet made him feel better.

Carnivore is good for loss-weight, basically few months tops..but can't be sustainable forever. You need those juicy veggies ans carbs..

Agreed, that's why as a PSA I'll be posting here every time a carnivore has devastating health issues. We should see quite a few in the next coming years.

Carnivore and Keto diets imo are going to go the route of Atkins and Paleo (the Keto/Carnivore diets' predecessors). People will lose weight for the first year or two, most will gain eventually gain it all back and onto the next fad diet they'll come.

It's interesting to see this forum and the manosphere at large move from Paleo to Keto to Carnivore. I remember when people were proclaiming paleo was the bees' knees. I expect the same for the carni crowd. Especially the raw carni crowd - no better than the raw vegan crowd - should be fascinating to watch in the next decade.
I think the takeaway is to avoid a diet with a high amount of simple carbs.

There are many people who`s had long term success with Paleo;

Robb Wolf
Ted Naiman
Loren Cordain
Stephen Phinney
Jeff Volek
Michael, Mary Ann Eades
Rhonda Patrick
Art De Vany
Kris Kresser
Mat Lalonde...

Oh, and all hominins that ever lived prior to civilization getting started ~10k years ago. A more refined understanding though implies that humans are adapted to agricultural (not industrial) diets at younger ages. (depending on philogeny and allelic variation within a population) But as we get older this adaptation will "give way" due to epigenetic changes, and we end up falling back, in terms of adaptation, to our previous longest standing environment. I.e. Paleo adaptation.

This is well proven with large experiments in drosophila, and the genetic homology is such that it is transferable to humans. You`re a fool if you don`t transition to Paleo around 35-40 yo. That`s the main way to slow down/stop ageing. Paleo includes fasting, sleep, exercise, time in nature, sun exposure etc. in my opinion.

 
void said:
Genghis Khan said:
mehdreamer said:
Genghis Khan said:
Carnivore Jordan B Peterson can't get off drugs.

Peterson family on carnivore diet:
* wife got cancer
* husband addicted to drugs

A long fall from that Joe Rogan podcast where he proclaimed his carnivore diet made him feel better.

Carnivore is good for loss-weight, basically few months tops..but can't be sustainable forever. You need those juicy veggies ans carbs..

Agreed, that's why as a PSA I'll be posting here every time a carnivore has devastating health issues. We should see quite a few in the next coming years.

Carnivore and Keto diets imo are going to go the route of Atkins and Paleo (the Keto/Carnivore diets' predecessors). People will lose weight for the first year or two, most will gain eventually gain it all back and onto the next fad diet they'll come.

It's interesting to see this forum and the manosphere at large move from Paleo to Keto to Carnivore. I remember when people were proclaiming paleo was the bees' knees. I expect the same for the carni crowd. Especially the raw carni crowd - no better than the raw vegan crowd - should be fascinating to watch in the next decade.
I think the takeaway is to avoid a diet with a high amount of simple carbs.

Yeah, and that would be fine, except "avoiding a diet with a high amount of simple carbs" isn't what the promoters of the carnivore diet are focusing on. They eschew complex carbs, legumes, and vegetables as well. Remember that Peterson explicitly stated in his Joe Rogan interview that he eliminated vegetables.

The Keto diet, although not as extreme, is also focused on eliminating as much carbs as possible in order to get into ketosis. So a lot more extreme than just eliminating simple carbs.
 
The calorie approach when it comes to vegans does not make sense. Raw food vegans consume 3000-5000 calories per day and slim down. Vegans predominantly consume more than 2000-3000 calories per day.

What makes the junk food vegans go fat is the combination of carbs and plant oils - then on top of sugar - when consumed together that makes everyone fat.

It's not even the caloric intake that matter. Long-term carnis report on first losing weight, then gaining weight again as the body is balanced, then slowly losing again. It's virtually the same story for everyone. The difference to the carnivore vs Keto or Atkins diet is that this is actually the more likely diet that has been in reality consumed by human ancestors for millions of years. Obviously it was never 100% because species care about survival and didn't give a rat's ass about where the calories came from. The interesting part is that the carnivores and MDs there actually show the shortcomings of both the keto and Atkins diets and why they don't work well long-term.

We also show clearly the counter-side and why this doesn't work - veganism and even vegetarianism.

On top of it - there is little need to go 100% carnivore. If that is what you want to do, then fine, but if you add some vegetables or a few simple carbs, then no one will kick you out of a cult.

Another important contribution of the carni-side is that the toxicity of vegetables are unmasked, because what even people are missing in normal diets is that those plants were not accessible year-long anywhere. The body had time to clean itself of lectins, phytoestrogens and oxalates. That changed since the fridge and modern transportation.

All of that points rather to the direction that our most optimal human diet is more meat/animal-source based and not plant-based despite all the claims to the contrary by the globalist mafia. They know this anyway which explains why they try to make insects and lab-grown-meat palatable. I read recently some reports where they plan to make 50% of animal farmers broke, skyrocket meat and then give you tasty insect burgers and animal sludge burgers as alternatives since real beef will be reserved for the 1%+. Their claim that this process should accelerate by 2030 into solid proportions.

We will see - this simplistic term of "calories" explaining everything DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AGAIN!
 
Johnnyvee said:
You`re a fool if you don`t transition to Paleo around 35-40 yo.

Ancel Keys, the perennial bogeyman of the paleo crowd, died at age 100.
Senator George McGovern, the guy who supposedly fucked up dietary guidelines with the McGovern Report, died at age 90.

T. Colin Campbell is 86 years old.
Caldwell Esselstyn is also 86 years old.

If being a fool means living into my 80s and 90s without heart disease, cancer, diabetes, or hypertension, then sign me up!

Meanwhile Robert Atkins had a cardiac arrest at 71 years of age, and his death at 72 has been marred with controversy, not least because his widow refused an autopsy.

Stephen Byrnes, a Weston A Price Foundation guru, died of a stroke at age 41.

Then you got super jacked dudes like Randy Couture who eats a ton of meat and just had a heart attack.
Or how about Charles Poliquin, who would eat massive amounts of meat on a daily basis, and died of a heart attack at age 57.

Here's a friend of Poliquin, trying to defend his eating habits and unintentionally scoring an own-goal

https://jonnybowden.com/blog/dont-politicize-the-death-of-charles-poliquin/

This happened when running guru Jim Fixx died at age 52, it happened when nutritionist Shari Lieberman died of ovarian cancer at 51, and it happened when Robert Crayhon—a mentor of both mine and Charles’- died at 49 of colon cancer.

But here’s the thing. People die wearing seat belts, but that doesn’t make wearing seat belts a bad idea. Wearing seat belts reduces the risk of dying in a car crash but it doesn’t reduce it to zero. Seat belts still significantly reduce the risk of fatalities and you’re an idiot if you don’t use them.

And it’s the same with diet. Charles, Robert and Sheri died eating Paleo-centric diets, but do we have any idea how many lives were saved by eating those very same diets? Conversely, do we have any idea how many deaths from heart disease and cancer were directly caused by eating the low-fat high-carb diet that health authorities recommend and that Charles (and Robert, and Shari) wisely shunned?

It's amazing to me that dying young is considered "wisely" but living into your 90s is being a fool.

There are many people who`s had long term success with Paleo;

Robb Wolf
Ted Naiman
Loren Cordain
Stephen Phinney
Jeff Volek
Michael, Mary Ann Eades
Rhonda Patrick
Art De Vany
Kris Kresser
Mat Lalonde...

Paleo is a bit more complex than carnivore, as paleo doesn't eschew vegetables or fruits. Not does it require ketosis.

That said, we should be mindful of using the term "long-term success".

Your diet doesn't mean anything until we find out what age and of what cause you died of.

Any person under the age of 80 should be seen with precaution. The younger the person is, the more skeptical we should be.

A person may brag about how healthy he is at age 58, not realizing he is a year away from dropping dead of a heart attack.

The average age of first cardiovascular disease event is 66 years in the US. So people can brag about their health for a very, very long time and not have to face a heart attack. Atkins was a great example, he was able to go all the way until he was 71 year before his diet finally hit him.

My personal approach is to listen to the guys who survive and thrive in their 80s and 90s.

I will change my mind when I see paleo/keto/carnivore people consistently making it into their 80s and 90s.

DeVany might be the only exception so far as he's made it to 82. But to repeat, even then, his cohort, which includes Loren Cordain, are the least extreme as they still consume vegetables and fruits. DeVany seems more focused on cutting out junk food/carbs/seed oils, which I wholeheartedly agree. He might also not consume as much meat as many people do in the larger paleo/keto/carnivore circle or have gotten lucky genes-wise.

Again, this is why it's important to wait and see. When in doubt, look at dietary habits that consistently promote good health. When you hear the Okinawans traditionally lived extremely long without any chronic disease (consistently) and their diet consisted of only 4% animal product, it's worth keeping that data in mind.
 
Simeon_Strangelight said:
The calorie approach when it comes to vegans does not make sense. Raw food vegans consume 3000-5000 calories per day and slim down.

Absolutely fucking bullshit. Show me evidence of these skinny raw food vegans consuming that much.

This is a argument you can't back with actual data, similar to your argument in the whole-food plant based diet thread that Icelandic people eat tons of meat and are super healthy, when in reality their kids are the second fattest people in Europe:
https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/...ic_children_are_the_second_fattest_in_europe/

In reality Iceland is even fatter than America:

https://grapevine.is/news/2016/01/25/iceland-out-ranks-america-in-obesity/

Iceland ranks very high globally in terms of obesity overall, and has also out-ranked the United States in the area.

Ramon Martinez, a technical specialist in health metrics for the World Health Organization, compiled data from 188 countries around the world, tracking obesity rates in adults over the age of 20 from 1990 to 2013. In this case, “obesity” was defined as having a body mass index over 25.

According to the findings, Iceland ranks 21st in the world in terms of adult obesity. 67.1% of Icelandic adults are obese, the data finds, increasing by 12.2% since 1990.

By comparison, the United States ranks 27th in the world, with 66.3% of the population struggling with obesity.
 
I see that someone has been brainwashed by the plant-based vegan-globohomo cult. Good luck with that - you are equating instantly meat with cancer and heart-attack, when in all cases it was more the entire meals they eat. McDonald's food is 85% plant-based and so is the average diet out there.

You are citing some athletes who eat everything - including those healthy wonderful plant-oils and carbs - as proof that this caused their heart attack.

Ugh - now meat consumption is making you somehow fat. I wonder how those healthy carbs and plant oils add to that equation.

And yes - I know that countless vegans eat 2500-3500 calories - I witnessed it myself with people in my vicinity who went on the vegan diet. 5000 calories and still hungry - go vegan!

Whatever bloke - enjoy your globohomo-propaganda-approved beyond burger slob fake meat.

The plant-based food intake in all the WEst has increased tremendously and that is making the people sick - mostly plant oils which is virtually all toxic and very likely cancer-causing. It's not the meat - it's everything else you eat.

AS for Iceland - they predominantly ate meat and fish and that is where their life expectancy of men over 81 is coming from. When you have now kids growing fatter, then it's more due to being 80-85% plant-based just as the US. A percentage that was increasing from the 1950s and especially 1970s onward for the US. Americans were eating more calories from animal sources back in the 1950s than in the 2000s - far far more. The diet has been shifting plant-based for decades approaching McDonald's levels - meaning 85% plant-based. HOw wonderful! And if that is the case then the new Icelandic generation won't live to be 81 anymore just as young Americans will drop dead even earlier than their fathers and grandfathers.

By the way - friendly jab - you should rename yourself Goat food Khan, beuase the Mongols called anything that wasn't meat or dairy grass or goat food. They were so much stronger than the malnourished agrarian people they conquered that this was one of the reason for their success. Even American soldier accounts fom the 18th and 19th century state how the Native Indians who were buffallo-fed were stronger, taller and more healthy than the soldiers fighting against them. Attacking their food supply was one of the strategies of war applied. (which was a great crime of course on many levels - even more because buffallo is a far better meat animal then the European cow).
 

Johnnyvee

Pelican
Genghis Khan said:
Johnnyvee said:
You`re a fool if you don`t transition to Paleo around 35-40 yo.

Ancel Keys, the perennial bogeyman of the paleo crowd, died at age 100.
Senator George McGovern, the guy who supposedly fucked up dietary guidelines with the McGovern Report, died at age 90.

T. Colin Campbell is 86 years old.
Caldwell Esselstyn is also 86 years old.

If being a fool means living into my 80s and 90s without heart disease, cancer, diabetes, or hypertension, then sign me up!

Meanwhile Robert Atkins had a cardiac arrest at 71 years of age, and his death at 72 has been marred with controversy, not least because his widow refused an autopsy.

Stephen Byrnes, a Weston A Price Foundation guru, died of a stroke at age 41.

Then you got super jacked dudes like Randy Couture who eats a ton of meat and just had a heart attack.
Or how about Charles Poliquin, who would eat massive amounts of meat on a daily basis, and died of a heart attack at age 57.

Here's a friend of Poliquin, trying to defend his eating habits and unintentionally scoring an own-goal

https://jonnybowden.com/blog/dont-politicize-the-death-of-charles-poliquin/

This happened when running guru Jim Fixx died at age 52, it happened when nutritionist Shari Lieberman died of ovarian cancer at 51, and it happened when Robert Crayhon—a mentor of both mine and Charles’- died at 49 of colon cancer.

But here’s the thing. People die wearing seat belts, but that doesn’t make wearing seat belts a bad idea. Wearing seat belts reduces the risk of dying in a car crash but it doesn’t reduce it to zero. Seat belts still significantly reduce the risk of fatalities and you’re an idiot if you don’t use them.

And it’s the same with diet. Charles, Robert and Sheri died eating Paleo-centric diets, but do we have any idea how many lives were saved by eating those very same diets? Conversely, do we have any idea how many deaths from heart disease and cancer were directly caused by eating the low-fat high-carb diet that health authorities recommend and that Charles (and Robert, and Shari) wisely shunned?

It's amazing to me that dying young is considered "wisely" but living into your 90s is being a fool.

There are many people who`s had long term success with Paleo;

Robb Wolf
Ted Naiman
Loren Cordain
Stephen Phinney
Jeff Volek
Michael, Mary Ann Eades
Rhonda Patrick
Art De Vany
Kris Kresser
Mat Lalonde...

Paleo is a bit more complex than carnivore, as paleo doesn't eschew vegetables or fruits. Not does it require ketosis.

That said, we should be mindful of using the term "long-term success".

Your diet doesn't mean anything until we find out what age and of what cause you died of.

Any person under the age of 80 should be seen with precaution. The younger the person is, the more skeptical we should be.

A person may brag about how healthy he is at age 58, not realizing he is a year away from dropping dead of a heart attack.

The average age of first cardiovascular disease event is 66 years in the US. So people can brag about their health for a very, very long time and not have to face a heart attack. Atkins was a great example, he was able to go all the way until he was 71 year before his diet finally hit him.

My personal approach is to listen to the guys who survive and thrive in their 80s and 90s.

I will change my mind when I see paleo/keto/carnivore people consistently making it into their 80s and 90s.

DeVany might be the only exception so far as he's made it to 82. But to repeat, even then, his cohort, which includes Loren Cordain, are the least extreme as they still consume vegetables and fruits. DeVany seems more focused on cutting out junk food/carbs/seed oils, which I wholeheartedly agree. He might also not consume as much meat as many people do in the larger paleo/keto/carnivore circle or have gotten lucky genes-wise.

Again, this is why it's important to wait and see. When in doubt, look at dietary habits that consistently promote good health. When you hear the Okinawans traditionally lived extremely long without any chronic disease (consistently) and their diet consisted of only 4% animal product, it's worth keeping that data in mind.

A lot of things here;

-I wish you took the time to study the latter part of my comment, as that was the main point. It`s not easy to grasp that concept. I struggled with it also. (I have a biology degree as well) But it`s the main concept you need to grasp in the health/ageing department.

-I mentioned people like Cordain and De Vany as people who`s had long term success. Doesn`t mean that they do everything right. De Vany drinks coffee, beer and wine, smokes cigars, eats cultivated high fructose fruits etc. None of that is Paleo, but he still does relatively well. You could easily compile a N=1 list of people who`s eaten Paleo-ish and lived a long time, but it misses the point I think.

-Fasting is a part of the paleo diet/lifestyle. No doubt. We evolved to maintain ourselves via fasting. That`s how you get the ketones, NAD+, Sirtuins, HDAC, FOXO mediated longevity effects after all. Plus maybe a relatively high fat diet also.

-Okinawans eat a lot of sweet potato and less rice and grains that mainland Japan. Closer to Paleo in other words. They also have (or had?) a low caloric diet in general. Doesn`t mean that they wouldn`t do even better with more meat and fish and less vegetables. So they have a good, but not ideal diet, basically do CR, (out of necessity) are very insulin sensitive/physically active and most importantly have novel alleles that reduces IIS and enhances that longevity factor FOXO3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29688278

-I could also mention that Kitavans don`t live very long on average, and they have a diet quite similar to Okinawans, indicating that there are other factors, like the one`s listed above.
 
Joe Rogan went carnivore recently and lost 19 pounds, as well as boosting his energy levels and getting rid of pain, also called inflammation. The main problem he had: explosive diarrhea. But his body adjusted, I think.

Look up Joe Rogan carnivore diet if you wanna see him talk about it, or go to his Instagram page. He was already eating a low carb diet, so it just goes to show what a big difference cutting out certain foods can make. Anyone trying it should stick to it for a least a month to see the maximum benefits.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
I'm going back on it. I did a week, then within 3 normal meals this weekend, I felt like shit.
I think one mistake I made was having a lot of meals that are ground beef, which is boring as hell. Just eat steak and eggs, occasionally bacon as a snack and salmon. That's more sustainable even if its more expensive. Another mistake I made earlier in the week was eating cheese. I think cheese occasionally is fine, but I wouldn't do it every day. It just doesn't make you feel good.

After a month, I will likely do a keto thing or implement a weekly cheat meat ala Rogan's advice.
I think the biggest benefit to this diet is you can easily switch to 2 meals per day, which for me simplifies my life - so it's a big plus.

I'll report back in a week.
 
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