The cashless society thread

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
RE: Sweden to go 100% cashless making it ILLEGAL to own physical money

I personally lean towards things that hold their value right down to the last breath of civilisation and beyond.

Rare comic book? Not so much.

Gold and silver? Can't eat it. Can't hunt with it. Can't Defend yourself with it.

Guns and ammunition? Store them safely* and you really can't go wrong. God forbid you went full retard on dealing with black market criminals**, in some instances guns and ammunition dramatically increase in value from their sticker price. Even with the outrageous markup we get on Glocks in Australia, they've been proven to resell underground for between triple and quintuple their legal price. In a true disaster scenario down under we'd see corporate bankers parting with hundreds of thousands of dollars of their wife's jewellery for a pistol and a few loaded magazines. When things get truly ugly we prioritise quite aptly, and if you've invested wisely beforehand then you can leverage the new market trends to clean up spectacularly.

Gold and silver are good only if you're going to be forced to travel to escape danger and need a very compact form of wealth transfer.

(* safe from natural degradation AND confiscation)

(** I in no way advocate breaking the law except in matter of pure survival)
 

DamienCasanova

Ostrich
Gold Member
RE: Sweden to go 100% cashless making it ILLEGAL to own physical money

Leonard D Neubache said:
I personally lean towards things that hold their value right down to the last breath of civilisation and beyond.

Rare comic book? Not so much.

Gold and silver? Can't eat it. Can't hunt with it. Can't Defend yourself with it.

Guns and ammunition? Store them safely* and you really can't go wrong. God forbid you went full retard on dealing with black market criminals**, in some instances guns and ammunition dramatically increase in value from their sticker price. Even with the outrageous markup we get on Glocks in Australia, they've been proven to resell underground for between triple and quintuple their legal price. In a true disaster scenario down under we'd see corporate bankers parting with hundreds of thousands of dollars of their wife's jewellery for a pistol and a few loaded magazines. When things get truly ugly we prioritise quite aptly, and if you've invested wisely beforehand then you can leverage the new market trends to clean up spectacularly.

Gold and silver are good only if you're going to be forced to travel to escape danger and need a very compact form of wealth transfer.

(* safe from natural degradation AND confiscation)

(** I in no way advocate breaking the law except in matter of pure survival)

All you really need to be free. Land, Water, cases of whiskey, and some rifles.
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
RE: Sweden to go 100% cashless making it ILLEGAL to own physical money

Put it this way, if the point is reached where guns and ammo become the most valuable commodities, we've hit Mad Max conditions and all bets are off.

Another point about gold/silver etc - or a disadvantage to be considered at any rate - is that their value is highly mutable depending on the circumstances. In short: you need a plan both to acquire the gold and then shift it, fast, when a safe currency comes back online.

Take an episode of Venezuelan or Zimbabwean hyperinflation. Historically -- and again, John Reed's books offer a blunt, empirical analysis of the issue -- hyperinflation of this kind typically lasts between 18 months and 3 years. Eventually the government gives up trying to make people use shit currency and is forced to issue a currency built on something real; this is how Germany finally climbed out of the Weimar Republic episode.

But this has implications for value as well. Anyone holding cash at the start of a hyperinflationary episode can be literally fucked overnight. But what's less observed is that the same people who are making out like bandits during hyperinflation - gold holders, smugglers, black marketers - are equally fucked the moment a currency that people trust is issued. In all cases of hyperinflation, this eventually happens. It took place in the Weimar Republic, it started taking place when Mugabe finally had a lucid moment and legalised trading in American currency again. Gold's value fluctuates. When conditions reach stability, people ditch gold just as quickly as they picked it up, which causes its price to crash. Thus, unless you pick your moment very carefully, it's still possible to survive the onset of hyperinflation but be destroyed upon recovery. You need a plan for getting in and getting out.
 
RE: Sweden to go 100% cashless making it ILLEGAL to own physical money

The European Union Initiates Cashless Society Project

Desperate To Raise Taxes

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-european-union-initiates-cashless-society-project/5561048

"A few months back The Guardian ran an article stating that “Swedes are blazing a trail in Europe, with banks, buses, street vendors and even churches expecting plastic or virtual payment” as if the cashless society was something to be celebrated by modern society.

“I don’t use cash any more, for anything,” said Louise Henriksson, 26, a teaching assistant. “You just don’t need it. Shops don’t want it; lots of banks don’t even have it. Even for a candy bar or a paper, you use a card or phone.”

Cash transactions are already outdated in Sweden. According to central bank the ‘Riksbank’, cash transactions will make up up barely 0.5% of the value of all payments made in Sweden by 2020.

Likewise and according to The Independent, Denmark has moved one step closer to becoming the world’s first cashless society, as the government proposes scrapping the obligation for retailers to accept cash as payment – because, as they say, its to do with the “burden of managing change and notes.”

Strange then that all this is happening in an environment where EUR bank note circulation is still rising.

The European Payments Council (EPC), a subdivision of the European Central Bank, are taking steps in their quest to fully eliminate all cash. The reason is not to lift the burden off retailers or to make transactions more convenient but in reality to raise desperately needed taxes.

Highly respected ‘ArmstrongEconomics‘ reports that the EPC are going full steam ahead to enable immediate payment systems throughout not just the Eurozone but the entire European Union. The Single European Payments Area (SEPA) has been devised with the ultimate goal of eliminating ATM cash machines and force everyone to use their mobile phones or plastic cards, the project starting as early as November 2017.

In the absence of confirmed information on this point, it is likely that tourists and business people will be forced to pre-pay Euro’s onto an App if they come from a country outside the eurozone, currently made up of Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Spain.

The final goal of the EU Commission is best described in their own words: “The Single Euro Payments Area (or “SEPA” for short) is where more than 500 million citizens, over 20 million businesses and European public authorities can make and receive payments in euro. SEPA also means better banking services for all: transparent pricing, valuable guarantees ensuring that your payments are received promptly and in full, and banks assuming responsibility if something goes wrong with your payment.”

This year, meetings and conferences called “Towards a cashless society” were started to get the information transfer across to the infrastructure, supported very heavily by the banks.

It looks as though the initial battleground for banning cash will be … Greece.

From KeepTalkingGreece (27/11/16) – “Greek banks propose a series of measures to combat tax evasion, strengthen the electronic transactions and limit the use of cash in the economy. One of the measures proposed is a special tax on cash withdrawals. Bankers reportedly stress that cash money can easily and largely be channeled in the black economy. Therefore, a tax on cash withdrawals will drastically reduce cash transactions and by extension the black economy.”

The proposal includes reforming the tax system by introducing a revenue-expenditure system. Households and/or workers will only be taxed on the amount of income that is has not been spent. In this way, people will have a strong incentive to seek receipts for any expenditure in order to increase their expenditure and reduce the tax amount they will have to pay. There will also be an obligation for all businesses and regardless of their size to pay electronically every salary and wage.

There is another tactic in play to push the cashless society even quicker. As Sratfor Global Intelligence reports: “The eurozone has found a new scapegoat for international crime: the 500-euro note. The Continent’s leaders are seriously discussing decommissioning the euro’s highest denomination, which is favored by crime groups for transferring massive sums across international borders. Eliminating the bank note could help temper criminal activity, but in reality the implications are much broader. The idea is just the most recent step in an ongoing process moving Europe, and indeed the world, closer to an entirely cashless economy.”

None of this will go down well in both Germany and Austria who experienced periods of extreme hyperinflation after the world wars. This, along with life under dictatorships and in high-surveillance societies, has given both populations a fierce desire to protect their privacy (please note) — something that is afforded by the anonymity of using cash — and to keep wealth in physical form to avoid relying on systemic institutions.

There is another more sinister reason for forcing a cashless society. TruePublica reported last September that a deal had been signed by the administrations of the US, UK and EU when it comes to bank depositors. We said that “procedures in the event of the failure of a systemically important bank clearly states that depositors are to be protected – that is, until options have ceased to exist. Next time, the state will be last in line, not first. Depositor bail-in schemes are now a reality.” In other words, if a big bank fails you will be unable to cause a run on a bank by withdrawing your cash.

Indeed, the rescue of Italy’s Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena, reported by all the press as imminent has one other thing in common, none of them are sure if this will be full or partial nationalisation, state bail-out or a depositor bail-in.

What the authorities want to do is avoid this nightmare scenario that happened on Britain’s streets: The Economist (Sept 2007 just before the full blown financial crisis erupted) – The queues that formed outside Northern Rock, the country’s fifth-biggest mortgage lender, represented the first bank run in Britain since 1866. The panic was prompted by the very announcement designed to prevent it. Only when the Bank of England said that it would stand by the stricken Northern Rock did depositors start to run for the exit. Attempts by Alistair Darling, the chancellor of the exchequer, to reassure savers served only to lengthen the queues of people outside branches demanding their money. The run did not stop until Mr Darling gave a taxpayer-backed guarantee on September 17th that, for the time being, all the existing deposits at Northern Rock were safe.

In addition to all of this, the use of negative interest rates, never implemented in 5,000 years since the invention of money, is designed to force money out of the banks and into the economy which can be manipulated simply by changing the rate when required. The holy grail of economic measurement is rising GDP, which has eluded the ECB policymakers since the financial crash reared its ugly head leaving wave after wave of social crisis. Its answer was to print money and push 50% more into the economy and yet achieved an inflation rate barely above zero. Taxing cash at ATM’s or forcing it out of banks via punitive interest will be the norm in a few years.

Finally, with all money moving electronically the banks and government have another distinct advantage over you. Eighteen months ago, there was a run on the banks in Greece so the central bank imposed capital controls, highly restricting the amount of cash that could be withdrawn daily. In the few weeks prior to those controls ¢45billion was withdrawn and stuffed under mattresses. This won’t happen again if there are no ATM’s and cash transfers have all but been eliminated.

One way to the other – in the end, you are not going to be in control of your own money in a cashless society, that’s for sure."




It´s all about control.

They will tax every withdrawal from the ATM´s. And make bail in´s on customer deposits. The greeks will be the guinea pigs. As like the portuguese. Who recently bankrupted a bank imposing losses for the creditors. And a huge bailout by tax payers.

It sounded fishy when Goldman opened a zero minimum savings account:

https://www.gsbank.com/savings-products/online-savings.html

When Deutsche Banke was hit hard by speculation I also started seeing commercials on televisions for new deposits.

Now what it should be done is deregulate the banks. Except for the steagall act. And allow more people to open banks.

What would be cool to create would be a mixture between lending club and a deposit bank. The bank would have continuously the full amount of your money. There would be no fractional reserves. And at the same time this money could be used as lending club by the client. Making the bank the comissions to sustain it´s activity.

There´s a clear lack of atomicity in the banking industry. And strangely the establishment wants to concentrate it even further. If one bank fails. The deposits and clients would be transferred to another bank. And the recipient bank should pay for this. The creditors are responsible for their bets. With a concentration of banks of course if one fails all the other fails. If a restaurant goes bankrupt in my street. Do all restaurant go bankrupt?

Something must be done.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
A lot of hipster companies are refusing cash, angering minorities who don't use traditional banking. City and state governments are intervening on their behalf.

Hembert Figueroa just wanted a taco.

So he was surprised to learn the dollar bills in his pocket were no good at Dos Toros Taqueria in Manhattan, one of a small but growing number of establishments across the U.S. where customers can only pay by card or smartphone.

Cash-free stores are generating a backlash among some activists and liberal-leaning policymakers who say the practice discriminates against people like Figueroa, who either lack bank accounts or rely on cash for many transactions.

Figueroa, an ironworker, had to stand to the side, holding his taco, until a sympathetic cashier helped him find another customer willing to pay for his meal with a card in exchange for cash.

“I had money and I couldn’t pay,” he said.

The issue got some high-profile attention this week when retail giant Amazon bowed to pressure from activists and agreed to accept cash at more than 30 cashless stores, including its Amazon Go convenience stores, which have no cashiers, and its book shops. Amazon declined to say when the change would happen.

https://apnews.com/98613f20d0254b8bacd908ef12107fef
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
This is a young/old issue too.

Listening to a podcast interview with a mid 40's show runner in LA, so, the old guy spending his time with a bunch of young guys, who said that when he tries to pay back his colleagues for a meal or something, they roll their eyes if he offers cash.


For them, money is waving your phone in in the general direction of something.


Talked to a girl scout selling cookies near a college campus in front of a Starbucks and asked how business was.

I figured college students hurrying to class might not be the best crowd for guilt buying of shitty cookies.

In an exaggeratedly patient voice, she, all of ten years old, told me she accepted Venmo, and with the manner of a kindergarten teacher started to explain to oldme what that was.

Next day, same Starbucks, extremely aggressive twenties homeless girl with a dog as a prop, begging but essentially saying, pay me or the dog starves.

Her tagline:

I take Venmo.
 

Hammerhead

Sparrow
Gold Member
I despise places that don't accept credit cards. Usually "cash only" places are trying to illegally avoid taxes or are using their business as a money laundering enterprise. There are plenty of ways to legally reduce taxes, provided you aren't in California, so taxes are no excuse. The rest of society doesn't need to go out of their way to accommodate people who are too stupid or lazy to open a bank account. Accepting "cards only" frees the small business up from the issues of dealing with cash, mainly employees stealing from you. This more than makes up for the credit card fees you have to pay. This is similar to liberals not wanting to require IDs for voting. Trying to force society to accommodate the most stupid and lazy citizens as well as illegals.

When I try to buy something and the clerk says "cash only" I view this as the business telling me, the customer, to go out of my way to accommodate them. I will look for any signs that say "cash only" and not buy from most places like this unless I'm forced to. If they pull a sneak attack on me and try to "cash only" me once I'm already at the register I've been know to just walk away.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
As someone who has been on the receiving end of a catastrophic fuckup with their bank account I am entirely disinterested in a cashless society. For me it resulted in an extremely shit weekend and a large amount of hassle for a friend to drive several hours just to put fuel in my car so I could get home.

Anyone like Roosh who'd had their paypal account yanked out from under them knows that a cashless society means that the elites can send you from "functioning member of society" to "living under a bridge eating shit out of the bin" with the push of a button.
 

tomtud

Pelican
Have both. Both are convenient for various reasons.

Cash however takes the cake as it provides anonymity and as long as you keep your receipts you can prove expenses if you have tax write offs etc.

You see how the government is slowly taking away your anonymity by saying ohhhh we have to eliminate money laundering. How many people you know money launder? It’s ridiculous! Ohhhh we need to spend less money on printing money and cutting trees. Etc.

I know many of you want to continue getting those air miles points on their cards etc. However, do pay cash at times.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Hammerhead said:
I despise places that don't accept credit cards. Usually "cash only" places are trying to illegally avoid taxes or are using their business as a money laundering enterprise. There are plenty of ways to legally reduce taxes, provided you aren't in California, so taxes are no excuse. The rest of society doesn't need to go out of their way to accommodate people who are too stupid or lazy to open a bank account. Accepting "cards only" frees the small business up from the issues of dealing with cash, mainly employees stealing from you. This more than makes up for the credit card fees you have to pay. This is similar to liberals not wanting to require IDs for voting. Trying to force society to accommodate the most stupid and lazy citizens as well as illegals.

When I try to buy something and the clerk says "cash only" I view this as the business telling me, the customer, to go out of my way to accommodate them. I will look for any signs that say "cash only" and not buy from most places like this unless I'm forced to. If they pull a sneak attack on me and try to "cash only" me once I'm already at the register I've been know to just walk away.

If missing the point is the goal, this post is perfection.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Everyone here should be using cash, its easy:
- put $200 bucks in your wallet
- keep some cash somewhere in your place
- Grab some before you go out
- Now you have cash in case someone shows up at your place you want to pay or give money to. No need to go to the bank.

CASH IS MASCULINE:
- Look at what women are doing. 100% cashless, most women don't have $5 in their wallet.
- In the old days, men had cash, women had nothing. Today, men can carry cash, women can bring their MasterCard.
- There is a rebel element to it
- Dating you can just say "keep the change" when you tip. The waitress doesn't pay tax on that.
- When you pay many companies in Cash, they won't always decide to pay tax on that. Now you're a preferred customer, helping the local guy.

CREDIT CARDS ARE GLOBO HOMO
- Use of Bank Card / Credit Card makes you part of the machine.
- It is easier to nail you in an audit because you have less unidentified spending
- your purchases are being tracked for marketing purposes
- Your day to day location is being tracked with your purchases.
- You are more likely to make a large error on a charged amount (extra 0)
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
CASH IS MASCULINE:
- Look at what women are doing. 100% cashless, most women don't have $5 in their wallet.
- In the old days, men had cash, women had nothing. Today, men can carry cash, women can bring their MasterCard.
- There is a rebel element to it
- Dating you can just say "keep the change" when you tip. The waitress doesn't pay tax on that.
- When you pay many companies in Cash, they won't always decide to pay tax on that. Now you're a preferred customer, helping the local guy.

CREDIT CARDS ARE GLOBO HOMO
- Use of Bank Card / Credit Card makes you part of the machine.
- It is easier to nail you in an audit because you have less unidentified spending
- your purchases are being tracked for marketing purposes
- Your day to day location is being tracked with your purchases.
- You are more likely to make a large error on a charged amount (extra 0)
It is, think of those Russian guys with not just a few notes but a wad of cash perhaps 5mm (¼") thick.

Put into a search machine "anonymous credit card" there are various companies now offering bitcoin to anonymous credit card. People are getting sick of it, there is a market for alternatives.

Bank of America, American Express, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo are on the list of companies donating to planned parenthood, a big provider and promoter of abortions. Globo-homo indeed..

Stefan Molyneux said recently about cryptocurrencies - the fact that our totalitarian governments are running scared of crypto and trying to ban it should be seen as the biggest advertisement for crypto.

There is a term cryptoanarchy. The government dislikes and fears crypto even more than cash, so if they push people away from cash that is where they will have to go.
 

MartyMcFly

Woodpecker
RE: Sweden to go 100% cashless making it ILLEGAL to own physical money

Timely for me. I was in a coffee shop in Stockholm today, just aŕrived, and ordered a coffee. Girl rang it up and I offered cash. She said "we only take cards."

I said, "I guess we are not doing business then" and walked out.

Starbucks took cash.
This happened to me in S. Korea. I was flabbergasted. How is a tourist supposed to buy food without a Korean payment app or a Korean bank card. It is such a stupid concept. Why would a business actively turn away customers? Also, it is a petty honest country and I imagine petty theft by employees doesn't happen often (that is one reason I can see for a business to be cashless).
 

MartyMcFly

Woodpecker
RE: Sweden to go 100% cashless making it ILLEGAL to own physical money

This is the kind of policy that will make digital currency like Bitcoin more legitimate. It's naive to imagine any human society where some sort of illegal trade isn't happening. If you can't do it with cash, and certainly you won't do it with easily trackable credit cards, digital currencies are the logical option.
The governments could easily go after Bitcoin in the future. Look at what they did to torrent websites.
 

fireshark

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
"Cryptos seem to have been working for Venezuelans, no matter the internet-related problems, power grid faults, and generally poor quality of services. This is not a topic people would talk about out in the open as there are too many curious eyes and ears. "

 
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