The Catholic Church thread

NoMoreTO

Pelican
I am going to begin a 54 day Novena on Monday Feb 17th which will complete on Holy Saturday and will be part of a positive devotion in Lent for me.

How it works:
- 27 days saying the Rosary 'in petition'
- 27 days saying the Rosary 'in thanksgiving' (whether your petition is answered or not)
- some specifics on how to, specific prayers below
54 Day Novena

I have heard a few powerful personal stories related to the novena. One being an infertile woman becoming pregnant during a 54 day novena prayed by 2 people for her.
 
kel said:
You're not supposed to have bone broth, though, since that counts as "meat", but oysters are supposedly okay. Still, which of those sounds more like a "fast" to you?
Yeah, the Lenten abstinence customs in my church don't quite make sense anymore - especially given that Christians traditionally give as alms the money we save on food during the fast. Like Augustine wrote in his commentary on Psalm 42/43, if we want our prayers to fly to heaven we send them with the twin wings of fasting and almsgiving.
There was a time, apparently, when people would have more money for alms if they bought oysters instead of chicken, but that's definitely no longer the case. I think the Roman Catholic Church had a more common sense approach in adapting the fast to the culture. At least until the 60s.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Happy Lent Boys!

Last year I gave up booze, weed, and cigarettes and I believe it was a big part of opening myself up to a life change.

Here is my Lenten Fast. I am working with the time 3pm which signifies Christs' death on the Cross.

-No eating until 3pm. (All Days Except Sunday, where I will eat at 1pm or after mass)
-No Junk Food
-Mondays, Wednesdays: 1 Main meal with Eggs/Fish (evening), + Vegetarian smaller Meal (3pm)
-Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays: 1 Main meal with meat (evening) + vegetarian smaller meal (3pm)
-Fridays: Vegetables, nuts etc only (after 3pm), Ash Wednesday
-Sundays: Free Day after Mass
-Good Friday, + Possible elected chosen days in between - Full Day Fast.

*Liquids: I am allowing only Coffee during the morning part of my fast, need the energy for office work. I will allow my pre sleep tea. I will also allow Kombucha for electrolytes.

I spoke with a Priest and he said that depending on if the fast is malnourishing or upsetting your patterns, you can adjust it as you see fit. It is not a vow but a mortification.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Peter Helland has another video talking about how Catholics sold out and became pro evolution. Messes everything up. Jesus Christ references Adam , and overwhelming majority of Church fathers believed earth was 6K old as per bible.

 
I'd like to ask for two book recommendations from the Roman Catholics on this board:
- One that explains the changes made to pre-Novus Ordo liturgy and practice, and the reasons behind them. For example, communion under one species only for the laity, baptism by pouring instead of immersion, excommunication of baptized children until they reach the age of reason, delaying confirmation until after communion, etc.
- One that explains the recognize and resist position of trads. Basically, how trads can hold to the old faith, seemingly in opposition to the ordinary magisterium who everyone is supposed to obey, without ceasing to be faithful Roman Catholics.
I appreciate any help y'all can give me. Podcasts are fine, too.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Emperor Constantine said:
I'd like to ask for two book recommendations from the Roman Catholics on this board:
- One that explains the changes made to pre-Novus Ordo liturgy and practice, and the reasons behind them. For example, communion under one species only for the laity, baptism by pouring instead of immersion, excommunication of baptized children until they reach the age of reason, delaying confirmation until after communion, etc.
- One that explains the recognize and resist position of trads. Basically, how trads can hold to the old faith, seemingly in opposition to the ordinary magisterium who everyone is supposed to obey, without ceasing to be faithful Roman Catholics.
I appreciate any help y'all can give me. Podcasts are fine, too.
This might be better for the TLM thread, but I'll bite...

I haven't read any books about the changes but there's a good bit of info on the internet.

SSPX has a great FAQ site where they address many of the changes. You can probably find some helpful books from Angelus Press, which is the publishing arm of the SSPX. If you're reading this and have reservations about the Society, I implore you to suspend them if just for a moment to try and see things from their side.

My personal stance on "recognize & resist" is that the Vatican II documents were purposefully vague. This makes it so that Catholics have freedom to choose how they practice. Unfortunately, most exercise this freedom in a liberal manner, making the changes you listed above. However, this means that practicing in the old form is completely OK according to Vatican II. For example, it doesn't say you have to practice in the vernacular. It just says you can. This is how you have the FSSP, who get nothing but thumbs-up from the Pope, who do everything according to the pre-V2 liturgy. I recognize that Novus Ordo mass is legitimate, but I resist by practicing according to the old ways.

I definitely recommend everyone spend some time in both traditional Catholic and liberal Catholic circles. That way you can see first hand what the differences are. Last week, I went to a N.O. parish for Stations of the Cross, and even that is much different between parishes. However, you don't really notice the changes until you live it.
 
Redbeard, I appreciate the reccomendation. I'm familiar with the SSPX, and have no bias against them. But, they appear to my Orthodox eyes as confirmation that my Church was right all along about the universal jurisdiction of the Pope. (in matters of church discipline and government as well as faith and morals, as per Vatican I)

Given the dogmatic definitions of Vatican I, I'm looking for something that would explain how to (if this is possible) hold to the same faith that Roman Catholics did in 1950; while, being obedient to and in communion with the current Pope, and assenting to the teaching of the current ordinary magisterium.

I should've explained my question a bit better in the first post; I actually asked for a book or podcast recommendation precisely because I don't want to start a doctrinal debate on the forum. As an Orthodox, I lack the desire or credibility to suggest the SSPX should start obeying Pope Francis. I'm just looking for an explanation that would allow one to be a faithful member mainstream Roman Catholic Church without accepting modernism.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Emperor Constantine said:
As an Orthodox...

I'm just looking for an explanation that would allow one to be a faithful member mainstream Roman Catholic Church without accepting modernism.
Why? Are you converting, or do you have Catholic friends you're trying to help? Seems strange for an Ortho-bro to take such an interest in these issues.

As far as how to how "to be a faithful member mainstream Roman Catholic Church without accepting modernism," - reading a book is not enough, you have to live your faith.

That's why the best answer (in my opinion) is to start going to a TLM parish. A strong priest will guide you on how to live your life as a devout Catholic without beating around the bush with modernism.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Emperor Constantine said:
...

I'm just looking for an explanation that would allow one to be a faithful member mainstream Roman Catholic Church without accepting modernism.
If you figured out your Bishop was a modernist, would you leave the Orthoodox Church? That might be a way to frame it.

It seems you are searching for Orthodox / Traditional Practice as the main discerning factor over other factors such as perhaps the validity of the Papacy and defined Doctrine.

The idea that the most traditional or reverent Church service is by definition the correct Church, might not be the way to search. Consider someone who is seeking the best preaching and fellowship, they might end up at a protestant Church. Still, with Latin mass in my mind Right & Reverent Teaching and Mass practices are resolved in my mind.

This is one of the best explanations I have seen regarding Catholic - Orthodox differences. There are lots of E. Orthodox on this site, and Catholics should be aware of how we are different. There is 1000 years of Catholic Theology between the Schism and Vatican 2 including the Rosary & St. Thomas Aquinas.


An Orthodox Convert in the below video recommends the book "Jesus Peter and the Keys" (about 18 minutes in)

This voluminous study examines the question of the Papacy in theological, biblical, and historical context, attempting to dispel doubts about the traditional Roman Catholic position by an impessive collection of data and commentary.
 
redbeard said:
Are you converting, or do you have Catholic friends you're trying to help? Seems strange for an Ortho-bro to take such an interest in these issues.
For me the Great Schism is not a historical event, but an open wound dividing my loved ones. I'd like to understand.

redbeard said:
That's why the best answer (in my opinion) is to start going to a TLM parish. A strong priest will guide you on how to live your life as a devout Catholic without beating around the bush with modernism.
That is excellent advice, Redbeard. Thank you.


NoMoreTO said:
If you figured out your Bishop was a modernist, would you leave the Orthoodox Church? That might be a way to frame it.
If he was teaching heresy, I'd have to find a new bishop. However, in the specific case of modernism, since it has not yet become a problem in my Church it is not yet officially prohibited. So I'd have to contact the metropolitan and let the synod cast judgement.

Thank you for the videos you linked. The redheaded guy, unfortunately, is not familiar with Orthodoxy or the relevant history. Deacon Joseph Pasquella undoubtably has a worthwhile testimony, and it sadly the interviewer fails to really get him going. If you'd like insight on the divide from a Roman Catholic perspective, by people also familiar with Orthodoxy, James Likoudis and Tim Flanders are two RC apologists who were formerly EO and have written about the differences. The best argument for papal authority, though, written with Orthodox in mind, is Russia and the Universal Church by Vladimir Solovyev, an Orthodox ecumenist writing not long before the Russian revolution. That one really made me think.

I have a copy of Jesus, Peter, and the Keys.

NoMoreTO said:
It seems you are searching for Orthodox / Traditional Practice as the main discerning factor over other factors such as perhaps the validity of the Papacy and defined Doctrine.
Though I was also curious about the liturgy, the doctrine definitely more important. Here's what I'm trying to understand:
The dogmatic definitioins of Vatican I do not appear to leave any room for any dissention from magisterial teaching (chapter 3, section 8), and the current magesterium teaches things that are not in accord with previous magesterial teaching. And conflicting things cannot both be true. But, I am also willing to bet that I am misunderstanding Vatican I, since I am accustomed to a very different set of terms, definitions, and theological methods.

I just found Magesterial Authority by Fr. Chad Ripperger, which I think might be able to clear up this question. I appreciate the help from both of you!
 
"Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are real and God is not 'a magician with a magic wand'"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-9822514.html

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. “The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”

Hmmm....
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
fr0st said:
"Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are real and God is not 'a magician with a magic wand'"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-9822514.html

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. “The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”

Hmmm....
Terrible. This is the biggest issue with Catholic Theology today. It goes right up against tradition. All Church Fathers believed in Adam & Eve aka Creationism. I posted a video with Peter Helland on this about a page back, its a good explanation on how evolution doesn't really fit with the Bible or Traditional Catholic Teaching.

The Reporter Finishes "His teaching is in line with catholic teaching....of the last few decades"
 
Archdiocese of Seattle suspended all Masses indefinitely due to coronavirus concerns, looks like Portland is considering the same move. Hopefully not, though. Archbishop Sample of Portland is far more conservative than Seattle's Archbishop Ettiene. Praying for merely a general dispensation for elderly, healthcare workers, or those just concerned with exposure, etc. and allowing the rest of us to make our own decision whether to risk celebrating Mass or not.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Here is the Act of Spiritual Communion written by St. Alphonsus de Liguori:
My Jesus, I believe that you are present in the Most Holy Sacrament.
I love you above all things, and I desire to receive you into my soul.
Since I cannot at this moment receive you sacramentally,
come at least spiritually into my heart.
I embrace you as if you were already there and unite myself wholly to you.
Never permit me to be separated from you.
Amen !
Some family prayers provided by my parish to keep Sunday holy in place of Mass for those who are unable to Go.
PrayersAgainstEpidemics
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Happy St. Patricks Day

I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
of the Creator of creation.
I arise today
Through the strength of Christ's birth with His baptism,
Through the strength of His crucifixion with His burial,
Through the strength of His resurrection with His ascension,
Through the strength of His descent for the judgment of doom.

I arise today
Through the strength of the love of cherubim,
In the obedience of angels,
In the service of archangels,
In the hope of resurrection to meet with reward,
In the prayers of patriarchs,
In the predictions of prophets,
In the preaching of apostles,
In the faith of confessors,
In the innocence of holy virgins,
In the deeds of righteous men.

I arise today, through
The strength of heaven,
The light of the sun,
The radiance of the moon,
The splendor of fire,
The speed of lightning,
The swiftness of wind,
The depth of the sea,
The stability of the earth,
The firmness of rock.

I arise today, through
God's strength to pilot me,
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's host to save me
From snares of devils,
From temptation of vices,
From everyone who shall wish me ill,
afar and near.

I summon today
All these powers between me and those evils,
Against every cruel and merciless power
that may oppose my body and soul,
Against incantations of false prophets,
Against black laws of pagandom,
Against false laws of heretics,
Against craft of idolatry,
Against spells of witches and smiths and wizards,
Against every knowledge that corrupts man's body and soul;
Christ to shield me today
Against poison, against burning,
Against drowning, against wounding,
So that there may come to me an abundance of reward.

Christ with me,
Christ before me,
Christ behind me,
Christ in me,
Christ beneath me,
Christ above me,
Christ on my right,
Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down,
Christ when I sit down,
Christ when I arise,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks of me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.


Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
of the Creator of creation.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Plenary Indulgence Granted

Thus the following may receive this specially granted plenary indulgence:
The faithful suffering from the coronavirus
Health care workers (giving help to those with the virus)
Family members and all those who in any capacity, including through prayer, care for them (so this means anyone praying for those suffering from or assisting Corona Virus patients)
How does a person receive the Plenary Indulgence? You must, with a spirit detached from any sin, unite yourself spiritually through the media to one of the following:
the celebration of the Holy Mass;
recitation of the Rosary;
a pious practice such as the Way of the Cross (or other forms of devotion);
recitation of the Creed, the Lord’s Prayer, and “a pious invocation to the Blessed Virgin Mary, offering this trial in a spirit of faith in God and charity towards their brothers and sisters.”
Plenary Indulgence Link
 

Nemausus

Woodpecker
Gold Member
The current Pope gets a lot of criticism, but many Catholics are celebrating the extraordinary Urbi et Orbi blessing he gave this week.

Images of Pope Francis leading a prayer service in an empty St. Peter's Square were beamed around the globe.

Good recap video here:


It is very interesting that the Pope leading Catholics through this pandemic is missing a lung.

According to the Associated Press, the new Pope had one of his organs removed as a teenager, presumably after a bout with an infection. At that time, it’s possible that antibiotic treatments that are commonly used today to treat such infections were not as available, and to protect patients from further health problems doctors removed the lung as way to stop the infection from spreading.
Source: https://healthland.time.com/2013/03/13/why-pope-francis-only-has-one-lung/

83 years old, living in Italy and down to one lung. Elevated risk to be sure. Let's pray that he gets through this time safely.
 
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