The Catholic Church thread

For the first time of my life , I have been praying at home. It is only the third time i am praying "well" ( Meaning that i was in full concentration and in connection with the Most-High ,if i may say so) and the first time i did this at home.

There was a powercut and everyone was sleeping , I had a candle on.

Is it normal to be able to pray only in the dark or with candles , and in full silence ?
Is it better to pray once a day a few minutes or once per week for a longer time ?

I have the feeling that praying is a bit like a sport , the more you "train" the better you get. At the time , it is an intensely personal activity , so I don't really know how to organise.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Polniy_Sostav said:
Is it normal to be able to pray only in the dark or with candles , and in full silence ?
My guess is this is due to your new, loose relationship with God that isn't very close yet. Similar to dating, you have to ease into the intimacy.

Is it better to pray once a day a few minutes or once per week for a longer time ?
Probably every day. When you pray "just a few minutes" that often turns into "a few minutes more." The daily practice will also build discipline and keep your mind focused on God throughout the day. If you only pray once a week, you might find yourself slipping into vice as the week processes on.

I have the feeling that praying is a bit like a sport , the more you "train" the better you get. At the time , it is an intensely personal activity , so I don't really know how to organise.
In a way, yes. Be patient and keep at it. Great to have you here.
 
NoMoreTO said:
fr0st said:
"Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are real and God is not 'a magician with a magic wand'"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-9822514.html

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. “The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”

Hmmm....
Terrible. This is the biggest issue with Catholic Theology today. It goes right up against tradition. All Church Fathers believed in Adam & Eve aka Creationism. I posted a video with Peter Helland on this about a page back, its a good explanation on how evolution doesn't really fit with the Bible or Traditional Catholic Teaching.

The Reporter Finishes "His teaching is in line with catholic teaching....of the last few decades"
Maybe they were wrong. Remember, they were humans and thus imperfect. The Bible is not a science textbook. Evolution does not discredit or disprove any teachings of Jesus Christ. The Bible is full of figurative and poetic language, accounts of creation in Genesis are worthwhile in that they provide primitive man with an explanation of reality that at that time they did not have the capacity to understand.

Did the Big Bang occur? The evidence points to "yes." The same thing goes for evolution. Both of those have no real bearing on any of the moral points in either the New or Old Testaments, and neither deny that ultimately God created the Heavens and the Earth. The method may be in dispute, but the origin is not.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Great work, mate.

Polniy_Sostav said:
Is it normal to be able to pray only in the dark or with candles , and in full silence ?
This question is about learning to keep the attention focused on God. Keep it up and you'll learn to pray in the midst of activity.

Is it better to pray once a day a few minutes or once per week for a longer time ?
This question is about learning to give your attention to God. Keep it up and you'll learn to pray constantly.

I have the feeling that praying is a bit like a sport , the more you "train" the better you get. At the time , it is an intensely personal activity , so I don't really know how to organise.
Yeah, you're training your mind to detach from the world and give your full attention to God. I'll link to a training mindset video in a second.

This is why it is important to understand that your current form of prayer is just dipping a very gentle foot into a warm pool. It is only the beginning, not the final end, and what you currently think of prayer will soon advance into deeper, simpler forms.

This is the path the Catholic Church recognises you will follow towards God.



Understand that Vocal Prayer is always going to be present, to some degree, but the other stages you'll advance upwards through.

You're currently practicing a simpler form of Meditation or Mental Prayer. You will often feel a deep emotional connection of being loved by God as he grants you what are known as Sensible Consolations. This is to encourage you to continue prayer because it 'feels' beautiful. These have their dangers - beginner souls can grow addicted to the feeling of love, and think this means they're already perfected - so after about six months of regular, structured meditation, if generous, this will become rarer and you will no longer be able to meditate via the imagination. This is because God wants to be loved for himself, not for what he gives you, and he's ready to start purifying your imperfections, if you cooperate generously. You simply continue praying, even in darkness and aridity, trusting that he's there and prayer shifts from the emotional understanding of God to an intellectual understanding of him.

It can be a rough transition for those who are unaware of this, which is why I'm giving you a heads up to encourage you to pray through the transition. If that happens, you should seek out a Spiritual Director to guide you.

So, you're sensing the call to prayer and God's presence. You're probably wondering how to best structure this. My general beginner recommendation is to start off with two sets of 10 minute in prayer. There's some Franciscan Friars I watch who basically set up a 'training regime' for the New Year, last December, which suggests this too:


Pay attention to the recommendation to spend some time praying before the blessed sacrament, when the churches reopen. The Saints all describe the power of regular visits to Eucharistic adoration: my own Priest told me recently how a small country town in my country was well-known due to forty-five different people taking vows and joining various religious orders over the space of a couple of years. Why? The little Church in town had always run 24-hour Adoration throughout their Schooling Years.

What do you actually do during prayer?

Here's a short method by St Alphonus Ligouri, that is very structured in nature, if you want to start following a plan:



However, I preferred an unstructured method. I practiced the Teresian Method after St Theresa of Avila, a Doctor of the Catholic Church, who reformed the Carmelite Spanish Monasteries and ushered in a Golden Age of Mysticism. She and her contemporary St John of the Cross wrote *the* manuals on how to move upwards towards God through the different grades of prayer.

Here's a short little work that the Carmelites have been using for decades, known as 'The Little Catechism of the Life of Prayer', that's written in a handy question / answer format that particularly captures the quality necessary for advancement. As St Theresa would say, Mental Prayer is not so much about thinking much as in loving much.

http://project451.com/wp-content/uploads/little_catechism.pdf

Enjoy the process. The more you give up for Him, the more He'll give you in return.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
No one is talking about this but it seems like a game changer. Could we be entering Church Remnant phase as masses close?

In the new edition, on the other hand, the secular name JORGE MARIO BERGOGLIO stands out in large letters, followed by the biography, the date of election and the beginning of his “ministry as universal Pastor of the Church.” Separated by a dash and the words, “Historical titles,” all the titles of the Roman Pontiff are then listed, as if they were no longer an integral part of the Munus Petrinum that legitimizes the authority which the Church recognizes in the Pope
Below is taken from the comments section, about his outdoor mass.
Surely I wasn't alone, Friday a week ago, in believing the pope's Urbi et Orbi sermon, prayers, and blessing at the Vatican to be most moving and beautiful and sincere. I wondered if he had finally had some sort of epiphany, at last embracing his forfeited role as Vicar of Christ. Then I read of what happened to the great crucifix of San Marcello, so prominently placed on the portico of St.Peter's for the broadcast. Italian new sources report that the holy sculpture "suffered potentially irreparable damage after being exposed to pouring rain for over two hours" The wood tumefied from penetration by the rain. Water also eroded some of the plaster coating over the stucco on the body of Christ. Much of the ancient paint was wiped off the wood. "The tempera pigments used by the artist to paint the blood flowing from the side of Jesus was also undone. Ripples have formed on the wooden surface on the hair and details on the arms are ruined."
Many are wondering why the pope was safe and dry under a canopy while the holy crucifix was left out in the pouring rain..
As for an epiphany, perhaps we can draw our own conclusions from a Spanish journalist who was told last week by Francis that he (Francis) believes that the Covid-19 pandemic is "Nature having a fit in response to environmental pollution."
Pope Francis removes title of Vicar of Christ
 

Glaucon

Ostrich
Gold Member
The absolutely zero pushback from all Catholic churches againts shutdown, is very concerning. They have zero power left.
 

Easy_C

Crow
Glaucon said:
The absolutely zero pushback from all Catholic churches againts shutdown, is very concerning. They have zero power left.
Not none. Our enemy is within.

There's some priests like this one who are fighting hard against the infiltration.


*Probably the most "Alpha" priest you'll ever see. He used to be a Union enforcer before becoming a cop
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
The earth trembled and was still when God arose in judgement, alleluia" Ps.75:9,10
"And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre. And behold there was a great earthquake. For an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and coming, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it." (Matthew 28:1-2)

God Bless.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I watched the Popes' Easter Mass today.

His Easter message was highly political. It started with Corona, then went to refugees, European unity, and even basic income. Not Good.

In his Easter address to popular movements of the world, Pope Francis encouraged activists to keep up their efforts and their hope under the pressure of a pandemic. He repeated familiar refrains about the “idolatry of money” and “ecological conversion.” But he also allowed himself to offer a single policy proposal that movements might work toward: “This may be the time,” he said, “to consider a universal basic wage.” This points unmistakably to what is usually known as universal basic income—a regular, substantial cash payment to people just for being alive.
Pope supports UBI
 
Pretty fucking tired of this Pope, the Vatican is clearly compromised. It's time we got this unapologetically straight.

Also glad Pell was released. The fact they can convict someone solely on dubious testimony is alarming. If this were a man of a "diverse" faith we'd have seen protests and likely no criminal proceedings at all.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
forestdweller said:
Pretty fucking tired of this Pope, the Vatican is clearly compromised. It's time we got this unapologetically straight.
No. You're trusting Nathan (((Schneider))), a writer for (((America Magazine's))) interpretations of what is being said by the Pope. This is the Jesuit arm of the Church, which has been a declared enemy of Freemasonary since the time of the French Revolution, which is why it is so clearly been targeted by (((the usual suspects))) - the Jesuits have gone the way of Star Wars and Marvel Comics over the last century and are being worn as a skin suit.

Schneider also writes for other trash magazines like The New York Times, The Guardian and The New Yorker. He's an over-connected Liberal Shill.

This is the magazine that once declared Pope Francis meeting with Fr James Martin was proof of a blessing for his clearly anti-catholic teachings on homosexuality, until the Vatican corrected the matter. Note that America magazine is pushing Joe Biden for President.

I also suspect this is why there's such a hardcore push against Pope Francis by suspiciously well-funded Youtube Channels with high quality presentation, who are more than happy to tell you their interpretation of what the Pope said.

I've found, whenever I look into it more closely, what he's saying is nothing that isn't reinforced in scripture, and 2000 years of theological understanding. So you can either trust the Church, including the Promises that all power is ordained by God and must be respected out of obedience unless you're clearly-ordered to contradict His will, and that even corrupt clergy are for our sanctification - or you foster (((disobedience and revolution))) against the established social order, and end up a dead-eyed, demon-controlled wretch and presume to know better than the Pope, whereas I'd suggest to get your own house in order.

Even when I looked into the Amazonian Idol mess, what was reported about the Idol was nothing to do with what actually happened. I don't understand how we can be in 2020, and still have people take the Media at face value.

I don't think a UBI will be the worst thing in the world, given the worldwide depression that is about to hit.
 
Thanks for the information, I was speaking out my ass on that one. Goyed out pretty hard there.

That's quite a white pill though, sorry to have offended anyone with my ignorance.

Edit: Kind of like a pragerU situation?
 

Easy_C

Crow
Maybe.

I don’t trust Francis much though if for no other reason reason than the number of people who violently hate religion that I’ve seen (friends of friends, not public figures) who were singing his praises and talking about how he was changing Catholicism for the better.

I’ve found that those people generally do have a fairly good instinct for who is on their side and Francis triggers that instinct.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
AB, based on your reply above, do you believe Vatican II teachings (not just the new Mass, but teachings on sexuality, freedom of religion, etc.) are valid?

If so, do you believe pre-Vatican II Church teachings on these matters were wrong, or do you believe it is possible for the Church to evolve and change its teachings?

I'm not disagreeing with you about Francis. I do believe what he says is technically not against Church teachings.

I am new to the Church and I go to an SSPX church (they generally don't accept what this pope and the post-Vatican II Church teaches), so I was wondering your opinion on this.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
^^^ This has been an extremely difficult hurdle to cross for myself also. I was attending an FSSP latin mass and found myself in constant conflict. I can't say I have this sorted out, but I have a real mistrust of most Novus Ordo Priests and recent Church teaching.

The technical answer I have found is:
Vatican 2 is a non binding council and does not pronounce on any dogma, therefore you can believe both. The people at my Church often accept the New Mass as Valid, but find it to be irreverent compared to the Tridentine Mass (Latin Mass). In this way, the technical answer is the "Official Church Teaching is This". People will point you to Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Otto Witt, and another writer called Denzinger. These are books which summarize Dogma so you know what you have to believe and what you don't. This is more the FSSP mentality, the SSPX mentality I believe is that Vatican 2 does in fact needs clarification.

Still I find myself totally confused on a practical level. I go to an FSSP catechism class, and we are taught things very differently than what your typical Novus Ordo attendee is taught. The Teaching going on at most Churches strays far from "Official Church Teaching" and I find that people just don't believe. I think of 2 Aunts of mine who attend the Novus Ordo and you realize that they don't truly believe in the eucharist or the official doctrine and are open about it.

I was having serious doubts about this pope and this doctrine itself, and I was questioning whether I could even go to Communion. Was I in communion with the Pope and the Chruches celebrating the New Mass ? Vatican 2 apparently you don't have to believe any of it, its just pastoral, which is confusing as all heck when it is EVERYWHERE! It was a hard thing to get my head around and still I haven't totally. It isn't helped by the fact that the diocesan priests often really dislike SSPX and even FSSP and will take steps to stop their growth.

I hope this helps, I might be sowing more confusion but at least you know you are not alone on this.
 

Easy_C

Crow
AnonymousBosch said:
I also suspect this is why there's such a hardcore push against Pope Francis by suspiciously well-funded Youtube Channels with high quality presentation, who are more than happy to tell you their interpretation of what the Pope said.
Thoughts on Relyea's words?

He's an interesting guy because he's wise to the JQ question as he's explicitly called out how media is "all run by jews".

 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
NoMoreTO said:
The technical answer I have found is:
Vatican 2 is a non binding council and does not pronounce on any dogma, therefore you can believe both. The people at my Church often accept the New Mass as Valid, but find it to be irreverent compared to the Tridentine Mass (Latin Mass). In this way, the technical answer is the "Official Church Teaching is This". People will point you to Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Otto Witt, and another writer called Denzinger. These are books which summarize Dogma so you know what you have to believe and what you don't. This is more the FSSP mentality, the SSPX mentality I believe is that Vatican 2 does in fact needs clarification.
This is what I have come to understand. This is what the books say.

The new mass is OK, but it's more important to look at the fruits. As you mention:

Still I find myself totally confused on a practical level. I go to an FSSP catechism class, and we are taught things very differently than what your typical Novus Ordo attendee is taught. The Teaching going on at most Churches strays far from "Official Church Teaching" and I find that people just don't believe. I think of 2 Aunts of mine who attend the Novus Ordo and you realize that they don't truly believe in the eucharist or the official doctrine and are open about it.
My take is that all of the V2 teachings are OK. It's given to us by the Pope and it's our responsibility to heed them.

From what I've read there are no lines that state you MUST say mass in the vernacular, or use extraordinary ministers, etc. V2 gave you the choice.

Now we've determined that both forms are acceptable. However, it's more important to look at the fruits. Watch the first two minutes of this little Benny interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EevRrWyBllY

V2 was purposefully vague
 
Is it normal to feel devastated after reading the Gospel? (the 4 canonical Gospels , condensed in one full story)
I both feel extremely thankful for having been exposed to the Truth and extremely sad because all my life I have been misled.
It s a mixture of excitement -to see that Faith , without compromise , is probably the gate to heaven , if you follow God's commandments and spread the Good Word - and sadness , since even though i wasn't the worst sinner , it doesn't matter , i have sinned.

It seems that confession , even if i have done it here in the past (when the forum had another orientation) , is only valid in front of a traditionalist Catholic priest.

I am married , I do my best not to sin , i have kids not out of wedlock , I am starting to pray. Apart from Confession , what Am I missing ?

I am also baptised and had my first communion , even though it was in a "vatican II" church. (My parents did not know that it was bad)

I don't know why , but since I have read the Gospels I am feeling a bit depressed , because I am realizing that the salvation of the souls is the most important fight , and yet every minute I feel the gap getting bigger with those who believe and those who don't .

I know Jesus told us to never be discouraged , and he warned that we will take a lot of disrespect/abuse for defending Him , but I am facing some kind of fear with the Coronavirus , that the times of tribulations are coming , and that we are about the choose between our Faith and our physical life.

I hope we do not reach this moment , but I can "feel" it , and it both saddens me and keeps me "elevated".

I do not have a clear question , I just wonder if anyone has been in this period of intense internal dialogue.
 
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