The Catholic Church thread


To be clear, Novus Ordo masses are a valid celebration. It's often a very watered down expression of the mass but it is still a mass.

I'd suggest looking into the Fatima mystery and following the instruction given by our lady. It is also important to get the contrary opinion and understand that numerous church scholars and leaders (including Mother Angelica) have expressed a belief that the Third Secret has not been fully revealed.

The Guest

Polniy_Sostav said:
and sadness , since even though i wasn't the worst sinner , it doesn't matter , i have sinned.
You might find Saint John Chrysostom's Paschal Sermon helpful.

I know Jesus told us to never be discouraged , and he warned that we will take a lot of disrespect/abuse for defending Him , but I am facing some kind of fear with the Coronavirus , that the times of tribulations are coming , and that we are about the choose between our Faith and our physical life.
A lot of us have been depressed and afraid lately. Roosh has talked recently about overcoming his own fear, you might want to DM him.


A friend at my Parish is trying to stay busy binding and selling some Catholic Books. He has Hardcover and is putting a lot of effort into it. If you don't have a Catechism of Trent this might be the time. He has a few other titles and would like to grow the list.

He is just starting up but I'm sure he would appreciate your support. Prices in CAD, which is 70 cents on USD.
Buy Catechism of Trent.

Thanks All


Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
I apologize in advanced if this has already been posted here (havent gone throught all the pages of this thead yet) but I stumbled upon this old 1996 video of Bishop Richard Williamson and I had to post it here immediately:

Watch the first few minutes and you will see what I mean. He goes over a brief history of Catholic vs protestant/liberal thought. We need more priest like this teaching...

I plan on watching the rest of these videos, which you can watch here:


Gold Member
Augustus_Principe said:
I apologize in advanced if this has already been posted here (havent gone throught all the pages of this thead yet) but I stumbled upon this old 1996 video of Bishop Richard Williamson and I had to post it here immediately:

Watch the first few minutes and you will see what I mean. He goes over a brief history of Catholic vs protestant/liberal thought. We need more priest like this teaching...

I plan on watching the rest of these videos, which you can watch here:
Thanks, great video. Every word Bishop Williamson says there is the truth. This is a great video to share with anyone who associates the Catholic Faith with renegades like Francis.

911, that video was terrific. They dont make them like that any more. A proper, judicious, and righteous man. Thank you for sharing. As time goes on I feel a stronger pull to my Catholic roots.
NoMoreTO said:
No one is talking about this but it seems like a game changer. Could we be entering Church Remnant phase as masses close?

In the new edition, on the other hand, the secular name JORGE MARIO BERGOGLIO stands out in large letters, followed by the biography, the date of election and the beginning of his “ministry as universal Pastor of the Church.” Separated by a dash and the words, “Historical titles,” all the titles of the Roman Pontiff are then listed, as if they were no longer an integral part of the Munus Petrinum that legitimizes the authority which the Church recognizes in the Pope
Below is taken from the comments section, about his outdoor mass.
Surely I wasn't alone, Friday a week ago, in believing the pope's Urbi et Orbi sermon, prayers, and blessing at the Vatican to be most moving and beautiful and sincere. I wondered if he had finally had some sort of epiphany, at last embracing his forfeited role as Vicar of Christ. Then I read of what happened to the great crucifix of San Marcello, so prominently placed on the portico of St.Peter's for the broadcast. Italian new sources report that the holy sculpture "suffered potentially irreparable damage after being exposed to pouring rain for over two hours" The wood tumefied from penetration by the rain. Water also eroded some of the plaster coating over the stucco on the body of Christ. Much of the ancient paint was wiped off the wood. "The tempera pigments used by the artist to paint the blood flowing from the side of Jesus was also undone. Ripples have formed on the wooden surface on the hair and details on the arms are ruined."
Many are wondering why the pope was safe and dry under a canopy while the holy crucifix was left out in the pouring rain..
As for an epiphany, perhaps we can draw our own conclusions from a Spanish journalist who was told last week by Francis that he (Francis) believes that the Covid-19 pandemic is "Nature having a fit in response to environmental pollution."
Pope Francis removes title of Vicar of Christ
Scripture has repeatedly warned us of false prophets and deceivers:

Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. (Matt 24: 4-5)

Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (Matt 24:11)

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Eph 5:6)

Let no one deceive you by any means (2 Thess 2:3)

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits...Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matt 7:15-16,20)
In his book "Saints who battled Satan: Seventeen Holy Warriors Who Can Teach You How to Fight the Good Fight and Vanquish Your Ancient Enemy", Paul Thigpen writes:

For just one example of Satan’s interference in Church affairs of the time, we need only consider Pope John XII, who became pope sometime between the ages of seventeen and twenty-four. According to his contemporaries, he cultivated many personal vices, including fornication; sold church offices to support his extravagant lifestyle; consecrated boys as bishops as favors to their wealthy fathers; tortured and exiled dissenting clergy; and pilfered the treasury of the Church.


Wutang said:
First time I've seen Trump reach out to Catholics as opposed to evangelicals

There isn't much to be gained politically reaching out to Catholics. American ones are largely watered down to the point that they just go along with globalist consensus viewpoints

In spite of losing their political power, Evangelicals by contrast are extremely good at enforcement of their views, and will rapidly lash out against anyone that they perceive as offending their tenets. Even pro-catholic things will piss them off because there's no small amount of brainwashing pushed on them about Catholics being a satanic church, "idol worshipping", etc by charlatans like Jack Chick.

Granted they're fairly gullible (see how they uncritically believe things like Trump being sent by God) but they tend to be far more on-point about social issues than your average Catholic lay person.


Gold Member
ilostabet said:
AB, are you aware of the Barnhardt thesis?

If so, what is your opinion?
Look, I've been aware of the Vatican II / Fatima Prophecies since i was a kid. I'm not going to address her fears point by point, as that's not the true problem.

I'll try and break down where I am with this. I think the problem is fundamentally in the Church Laity, rather than the Heirachy, so, in the spirit of charitable correction, I'd say this:

- I've only read some of Ann's writing here and there. She has the standard revolutionary spirit of one fostering schism, and her lack of charity towards others is evident in her writing, particularly a sense of judgmentalism towards others. She lacks the peace of Christ and the simplicity of spirit, and it's evident in her eyes. I think she would be better off focusing on a husband and children and learning humility and obedience. I'll pray for her to come around.

- By contrast, I recognise those who understand and trust in God: They're humble, devoted, forgiving, giving of themselves to others, and constant.

- I also would agree with Father Ripperger in that the time people spend obsessively-worrying about Freemasonary and Satanists in the Church would be better spent studying the bible, theology and the writing of the Saints, as often what they decide to be currently-worried about predates Vatican II by a couple of hundred years or more, or what they think Pope Francis is saying as being Satanic is, pure St Augustine, St Aquinas, or the early Church Fathers.

- I would suggest that whatever is happening - most likely the same institutional subversion that is affecting all Religious Institutions - it is a problem that will be fixed by God and Priest against Priest, Bishop against Bishop, and it is not the place of the Laity to foster revolution and disobedience when they've barely made any major headway towards personal detachment, mortification, meditation / contemplation and cultivating the virtues. To think that one can 'save the church' by fostering schism and disobedience is the height of prideful narcissism.

- Even more so, Catholics have been specifically warned for this time since the 15th and 16th centuries. And whilst Tradcats often talk about all the signs and warnings, they always leave out the part where we're told to cling to Holy Mother Church and not abandon it out of fear.

- Furthermore, God has told us not to worry, particularly about the outwards holiness, or lack of, of the Priests, for he has promised the Sacraments remain valid, and that he will not abandon us. "Be not afraid."

- I think the Laity point towards problems in the Church and with Priests to scapegoat their own lack of generous spiritual effort - "If I'm not Holy it's the Priests fault not mine" - which is why there's the temptation for some churches to become liberalised: fighting for Social Justice makes the Laity feel self-satisfied with their own activity, i.e. 'if I'm doing something I must be a good person. I took part in the Plenary Council Listening Sessions here - out of obedience, not desire - and a large number of the complaints were unrealistic expectations based on personal laziness.

- My Priest put it like this this morning: "I can tell them that teaching their children to fear God and that sex is evil will only severely damage them, psychologically and spiritually. They don't listen, because they fundamentally don't know how to obey."

I mentioned that sin beginning in thought seems to be a common sticking point for people. He looked at me:

"Do you think Agatha Christie was a serial killer. No? Sin begins with action, until then, it's only temptation."

I saw his point. I've never confessed the hundreds of characters I've murdered in video games. What? You've never sworn during a boss battle telling it to die?

Taking this confusion further:

- I think a large number of the Laity really don't understand who God is, and this isn't the fault of the Priests, but, as I said, a lack of personal effort. Particularly, I think people view God as a Fearful Object to be obeyed in a Legalistic Fashion, despite the warning of what happened to the Pharisees.

- I think there's a serious problem with this Fear of God in the Church, which unfortunately results in a type of sick narcissism: pride that one's sins are so unique and special that they can't be forgiven by infinite mercy. This would mean people never feel truly forgiven by God and, therefore, don't truly trust in Him, in case he 'takes his forgiveness back'.

- I can talk Mercy til the cows come home, but people reliably want Judgement enough to argue for it: they seem to desire punishment more than forgiveness. I wonder if they are truly detached from their sins, or is this arguing against compassion somehow related to not wanting to truly give them up? Or is it the general psychological oppression of the times? Do people want to be destroyed? Can they not imagine being loved?

- Very few people reach the Highest Level of Love St Bernard of Clairvaux talks about: loving oneself for God's sake. Which makes sense, as few would even know whom St Bernard is or what he taught.

- Let alone the Doctors of the Church...

- So this whole battle isn't about Satanism, but really about personal inadequacy, and the lack of control and desire for power the laity feel is really about their own conscious or sub-conscious understanding of their own spiritual mediocrity, which should make them trust in God far more than in their own weakness, but doesn't seem to happen. Having a Villain to target gives one a sense of (false) power.

- Likewise, basing choosing a mass or denomination on the outwards appearance of sensibly-received Holiness is, once again, seeking self in God - 'I'm doing something' - not God himself.

- Lastly, God isn't in revolution or disobedience. His action isn't sound and fury: it's small, and very easy to miss. Like this morning, I'd gotten some beeswax candles blessed: 10 for my Sister, 10 for me. I had left Church and was most of the way down the driveway, when I just understood that I had to go back.

I pulled back up in the carpark, picked up the box I had intended to keep for myself, understood to trust, and then walked back into Church, and handed them to a married couple of particularly noteworthy simplicity and humility.

With that, I left. That's all God wanted from me. I think of this as scattering seeds that I probably won't be around to ever see flower. Often, I expect another person steps in and waters it.

- These urgings of the holy spirit are always very simple acts, and the more you empty yourself of yourself, the more easily you respond to being used by the Holy Spirit in this manner. It can be as simple as noticing an old woman looking at pillows at the supermarket, and then being told to buy it for her, so doing it without thinking too much about it. It would sound nuts, but you learn to stop trusting self.

- With that, you can do what you're capable of doing: serving God in small ways for the people providence places around you. You can't hear these calls if your mind isn't emptied of worldly fears and problems. Especially as I understand I'm not the great reformer that will repair the issues in the Church: I expect some hidden young Nun or Priest of lowly station will appear out of nowhere, and God will do one of his standard Great Reversals, when all hope seems lost.

- So, all I have to do is have faith, and trust, rather than fear.


Thanks for the reply. I tend to agree with you. Incidentally, I had just finished making a post on the God thread about the whole Mercy vs Judgement question, as it seems to me to be the wrong question to ask.


Gold Member
Lastly, God isn't in revolution or disobedience. His action isn't sound and fury: it's small, and very easy to miss. Like this morning, I'd gotten some beeswax candles blessed: 10 for my Sister, 10 for me. I had left Church and was most of the way down the driveway, when I just understood that I had to go back.

I pulled back up in the carpark, picked up the box I had intended to keep for myself, understood to trust, and then walked back into Church, and handed them to a married couple of particularly noteworthy simplicity and humility.
Oh, I forgot about this. This is how it played out:

I meant to give the Candles I'd gotten blessed to my Sister sometime that day, but some things came up, and I wasn't able to see her, so thought I'd do it the next day.

The next morning I attended Mass, despite feeling quite sick. Normally, when I'm feeling that bad, I leave quite quickly, but now and then I get the urging to be still and let things play out around me rather than initiate anything.

Firstly, my Priest gave me a book by a Catholic Psychologist on how to form a healthy image of God, based upon Scripture, and I realised it might help my Sister. It was odd, because it's been like I've been invisible to him for a few weeks, and hadn't prompted him for contact due to understanding it was God's will that he back off for the moment.

So, after he walked away, the Wife of the couple I was prompted to give the candles too approached me and handed me a vial. She explained it was blessed oil for healing and protection, and that our Priest had blessed it. I've had the anointing of the sick a few times now, and I can't find words explain the power of that particular sacrament to those who haven't experienced it.

I thought it was wonderfully-kind of her, and I then understood this was why I'd be urged to trust and give up the candles, to receive this oil.

I'm not that great at figuring out God's will yet: I just defer to humility and, often, inaction rather than willing action. I read something recently that Contemplatives are about waiting and observing before acting. I'd been given this vial: what was it for? My instinct after thinking on this for a while - coupled with the candles and the book - was to give it to my Sister to protect her against the Demonic Oppression she often suffers, so, later that morning I handed it over. This is how I work - I've already offered any spiritual merits I accrue back to God for the salvation of others.

The next morning I was incredibly-sick, requiring an injection to stop vertigo, and spent most of the day asleep. I was struck with the thought multiple times that perhaps the oil was meant for me, and that if I'd used it this problem would subside, but said to God that if I suffered due to my love for her, that was OK. My Sister messaged me in the evening, and asked about the oil, and I understood that she and the woman who had given it to us should be put into contact with each other, so I asked her if it was all right if I gave her email to the Oil Bearer and maybe she could explain it to her.

I wondered more about the oil later that night, and thought I could ask my Priest about it, and maybe he would suggest blessing some for me.

The next morning, at mass, same instinct again: wait after mass. Once again, my Priest talked to me. Once again, the woman approached me, and mentioned my Sister - I only mentioned her once when I handed them the candles saying I was getting some blessed for my Sister - but this woman remembered and asked If I'd like some oil to give to her.

I then explained that I already had given it to her out of concern for her.

She smiled, "Then would you like some?"

Normally, my instinct is always to thank people for the kindness and say I'm OK, because I don't want to put anyone out. But for some reason, I said "Yes please, very much so."

She said she'd bring some more in the morning, and as I was driving home, I kicked myself for not mentioning my Sister's questions about the oil and giving her the email address.

Before mass this morning, the Woman approached me and slipped me another vial and smiled. After mass, my Priest called me into the Sancristy as he was hanging up his vestments, and he talked about some proofreading work I'm doing for him. I happened to mention the oil, and he explained how important Sacramental Oils are in scripture for healing, and I described my belief in their power. He then happened to mention a particular Incorruptible Saint whose body continued to produce Blood, Oil and Water after his death in passing.

As I left, I passed the married couple and thanked them. I would have left, once again forgetting about the email question, when the Woman said "Do you have email? Is it all right if I send you some information on the oil?"

Later on this morning, holding the oil, I looked up the Saint my priest had mentioned: turns out he's known for his intercessory power to miraculously-heal the sick.

See how well-ordered things are by God? The less attention you give the world, the greater your ability to notice these small orchestrations. So, when I feel a 'push' towards a small act of charity in the moment that doesn't make logical sense, I've learnt to not question it, and just act in faith.


Italian priests can give communion only while wearing disposable gloves and possibly a mask.
Public Masses in Italy are set to resume on May 18, according to a deal signed yesterday by Cardinal Gualtiero Bassetti, President of the Italian Bishops’ Conference, and Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte.

It appears Holy Communion will only be distributed only in the hand, not on the tongue, and priests will wear disposable gloves while doing so.

While “wearing the mask, taking care to cover their nose and mouth, and maintaining an adequate safety distance,” the priest has to “take care to offer the host without coming into contact with the hands of the faithful.”