The Catholic Church thread

Lavabis Me

Sparrow
Former Child Actor Bug Hall Breaks Silence On His Arrest, Hollywood Child Abuse, and the Catholic Church—
He played Alfalfa in the Little Rascals. Today he is practicing Traditional Catholic. He opens up about the sexual abuse he experienced as a child actor, rampant pedophilia in Hollywood, his struggles with addiction, and how converting to the Catholic faith changed his life.

Beautiful story!

This could probably go in the Public Figures Section if anyone wants to put it there.
This was an excellent listen. Nothing new as far as Hollywood (and our culture in general) being pedo-infested, and that the media covers it up by not exposing it.

He mentions in the video that when he was finally introduced to the Faith by a priest (from the description, likely Fr. Ripperger), that what he felt most was anger: anger not at what he suffered as a child, but that he had never been told about the Faith and had it explained properly to him.

That was my experience being born and raised a Catholic during the height of Novus Ordo destruction. When I started practicing the Faith again many years ago, I decided to give myself the Catholic education my parents paid for but I never received. I was ticked off for years as I went deeper and deeper in my study: why wasn't this told to me? Why, dammit, do I have thousands of stupid rock and roll song lyrics memorized, and not one line of Latin or Greek? I could (and should) make an entire post on how 4 generations of Catholics have been absolutely swindled out of their patrimony.

Oremus: Dear Lord, please bless Bug Hall for taking his family out of that cesspool and going to live as a radical Catholic. Please Lord, grant him the strength and perseverance to continue to follow you, to grow deeper in his faith, and to raise a big Catholic family that one day will rebuild Your Church. Amen.
 

jonNorth

Sparrow
I was skimming this thread and came across your post which has really spoken to me, and is very similar to my situation. I was attending local Novus Ordo Masses in area for all of 2019, then after New Year's I started attending a Traditional Latin Mass offered by my diocese from January 2020 up until Ash Wednesday of last year. As you know, the hammer dropped, Lent, Holy Week, and Easter were all cancelled. The day celebrating Christ's resurrection, a Holy Day of Obligation, there were no public masses being offered. I was offended, discouraged, and overall confused. My wife and I were supposed to get married in a local parish, yet the Priest told us that only our parents could attend a service that would be limited to 10 minutes tops. I came across a few fellows (associated with Roosh) who introduced me to Sedevacantism and the Novus Ordo Watch website. I looked in the Sedevacantist movement, and while I have seen the grim state of affairs of the Catholic Church at this time, I could not buy in to some of the things Sedevacantism believes. I even looked into the Orthodox church for a brief time. Masses in my area are still by reservation only, and I have not been to a Catholic Mass since Ash Wednesday... and Parishes in this area still require full masking that is if you have a reservation only to attend.

All that said, my now wife was raised in an LCMS Lutheran church, the Pastor there married us with a month's notice, and I have been attending services there fairly regularly. Not only that, but masks are "required" only until you are seated. As in, you don't have to wear a mask during the service. I am not using this post as a means of promoting LCMS Lutheran beliefs, I do still consider myself a Catholic at heart, but what's happening is disgraceful to me. At least it's something I say. No I am not a church authority, but I have been struggling DEEPLY with this whole thing. As you said, the same church that held services in secret is now kowtowing to the secular forces around the world. The Pope has been supporting all of the mandates and restrictions by government, and if you are in the United States, as you know our new "President" Joe Biden openly supports abortion and has been lauded by some in the church hierarchy.

I don't consider myself to have defected from the Church, I still try to pray the Liturgy of the Hours during different parts of the day, say the mass from my 1962 Missal, and do my best to follow the precepts and dogmas of the Church. And yet, I feel abandoned and even a little betrayed by the Church. I see things I am abhorred by and I sometimes wonder where is the Church? Where is it? It's not just the Catholic Church either I know, but where are our shepherds, where are our leaders, where is the Church? I feel disgraceful for sometimes for doing a little Mini Mass in my one Bedroom Apartment with some incense, but the alternative is no Mass or a reservation mass with masks and social distancing enforcement. Is it pride that's causing me to feel this way? I don't know my brother, but know this: you are not alone out there. The time I think is passed for Christians to think this is going to stop, but I truly don't know what the best course of action is. Maybe it is just praying for God's Grace and increased patience to get through this all, but I don't know. I hope to get more dialogue going, but keep the faith, brother in Christ.


I'm sure you've already tried this but have you visited all of the masses nearby? Some might be following the orders more or less closely than others. The one I found stated on the website that masks were required. But I looked at photos on Facebook and people were not wearing masks. So I went to check it out and sure enough it was mostly maskless
 

DeFide

Robin
Oremus: Dear Lord, please bless Bug Hall for taking his family out of that cesspool and going to live as a radical Catholic. Please Lord, grant him the strength and perseverance to continue to follow you, to grow deeper in his faith, and to raise a big Catholic family that one day will rebuild Your Church. Amen.
Amen. The second video is a well worth a listen too when you have the time. In that that interview, he tells the story of his dramatic and sudden conversion and it is extraordinary example of grace...I won’t spoil the plot for you but he was actually raised in an atheist family and had no religious knowledge or interest... :)

Although being a sede I winced when he said we have a “heretic pope” (OUCH!). But I bet someday he’ll come around...
 

Steiner

Pigeon
I was skimming this thread and came across your post which has really spoken to me, and is very similar to my situation. I was attending local Novus Ordo Masses in area for all of 2019, then after New Year's I started attending a Traditional Latin Mass offered by my diocese from January 2020 up until Ash Wednesday of last year. As you know, the hammer dropped, Lent, Holy Week, and Easter were all cancelled. The day celebrating Christ's resurrection, a Holy Day of Obligation, there were no public masses being offered. I was offended, discouraged, and overall confused. My wife and I were supposed to get married in a local parish, yet the Priest told us that only our parents could attend a service that would be limited to 10 minutes tops. I came across a few fellows (associated with Roosh) who introduced me to Sedevacantism and the Novus Ordo Watch website. I looked in the Sedevacantist movement, and while I have seen the grim state of affairs of the Catholic Church at this time, I could not buy in to some of the things Sedevacantism believes. I even looked into the Orthodox church for a brief time. Masses in my area are still by reservation only, and I have not been to a Catholic Mass since Ash Wednesday... and Parishes in this area still require full masking that is if you have a reservation only to attend.

All that said, my now wife was raised in an LCMS Lutheran church, the Pastor there married us with a month's notice, and I have been attending services there fairly regularly. Not only that, but masks are "required" only until you are seated. As in, you don't have to wear a mask during the service. I am not using this post as a means of promoting LCMS Lutheran beliefs, I do still consider myself a Catholic at heart, but what's happening is disgraceful to me. At least it's something I say. No I am not a church authority, but I have been struggling DEEPLY with this whole thing. As you said, the same church that held services in secret is now kowtowing to the secular forces around the world. The Pope has been supporting all of the mandates and restrictions by government, and if you are in the United States, as you know our new "President" Joe Biden openly supports abortion and has been lauded by some in the church hierarchy.

I don't consider myself to have defected from the Church, I still try to pray the Liturgy of the Hours during different parts of the day, say the mass from my 1962 Missal, and do my best to follow the precepts and dogmas of the Church. And yet, I feel abandoned and even a little betrayed by the Church. I see things I am abhorred by and I sometimes wonder where is the Church? Where is it? It's not just the Catholic Church either I know, but where are our shepherds, where are our leaders, where is the Church? I feel disgraceful for sometimes for doing a little Mini Mass in my one Bedroom Apartment with some incense, but the alternative is no Mass or a reservation mass with masks and social distancing enforcement. Is it pride that's causing me to feel this way? I don't know my brother, but know this: you are not alone out there. The time I think is passed for Christians to think this is going to stop, but I truly don't know what the best course of action is. Maybe it is just praying for God's Grace and increased patience to get through this all, but I don't know. I hope to get more dialogue going, but keep the faith, brother in Christ.
I appreciate your reply my friend. Hold strong, as evidenced by my own post and some of the replies here we are not alone.
However I did some reflecting over the last week, trying to think and pray through what we seem to both be experiencing. I'll try to articulate it the best I can.

The tribulations we face now - including but not limited to the eroding of the church, our current predicament in this country/world etc. remind me of this from scripture:
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
I think that sums up what we are feeling at the moment. But after reading it again, knowing the circumstance & what Christ went through for us, I feel honored to be exactly where I am today. This is a true chance to rise to the challenge and be shepherds of the faith. It all starts in our own mind, carrying the cross bestowed upon us. The way I look at it is that it is a blessing, to yearn for tradition, to be fulfilled in our spiritual lives, to have the fire of Christ burning inside us. It calls to mind the lives of the apostles that formed the church. Surrounded on all sides by enemies, a populace that did not much care for them at the time, and yet they persevered. Like one of the storied Crusaders much maligned by the present media, fighting for what they believed. Much like we must now!

As Jesus said "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."
Yes, things would be easier if this cup passed from us and the world didn't have to go this way, even the son of God had those thoughts. But I think it more Christ like to have to take our "cup" as God intended and walk this treacherous path.

Keep searching for the truth, a church that follows the teachings and traditions given to us. Run towards the fight, keep these traditions in your mind, pray daily. Be a leader in your own life and I know we will all come out of this stronger, and closer to God.
 

wannable alpha

Woodpecker
https://www.thedailybeast.com/german-nuns-sold-orphaned-children-to-sexual-predators-says-report

ROME—A jarring report outlining decades of rampant child sex abuse at the hands of greedy nuns and perverted priests in the Archdiocese of Cologne, Germany, paints a troubling picture of systematic abuse in the German church.

The report is the byproduct of a lawsuit alleging that orphaned boys living in the boarding houses of the Order of the Sisters of the Divine Redeemer were sold or loaned for weeks at a time to predatory priests and businessmen in a sick rape trade. The men involved in the lawsuit say as boys they were denied being adopted out or sent to foster families because selling them for rape lined the sisters’ coffers for their “convent of horrors.” Some of the boys were then groomed to be sex slaves to perverts, the report claims.

The alleged abuse went on for years, with one of the males claiming the nuns even frequently visited their college dorms after they had left the convent. He said the nuns often drugged him and delivered him to predators’ apartments. The Order of Sisters of the Divine Redeemer did not answer multiple requests for comment about the allegations.

The lawsuit, first reported by Deutsche Welle last year, is being led by 63-year-old victim Karl Haucke who, along with 15 other former orphans, demanded the Archdiocese of Cologne carry out a full investigation, which it concluded in January 2021. But the details of that investigative report were so horrific that Archbishop Reiner Maria Woelki refused to make it public, demanding that any journalists who see it sign confidentiality agreements. Eight German journalists walked out of a press conference in January after being denied access to the church’s investigation unless they agreed not to publish its contents.

Haucke says he was abused at least once a week between the ages of 11 and 14, often by more than one priest. “We had no words to describe what was being done to us. Nor did we know what it meant. And it did not stop at physical pain. We had a clear sense of humiliation and being used,” he told Deutsche Welle when the report was due to be released. He called the stifling of the report's release in January “scandalous” and said that denying the journalists the right to publish the report was “like being abused all over again.”

Now, several lawyers with access to the 560-page report have shared segments with news outlets, including The Daily Beast. The report names various German businessmen and complicit clergy who “rented” the young boys from the nuns who ran a convent in Speyer, Germany between the 1960s and 1970s. Among the worst instances of abuse were gang bangs and orgies the young boys were forced to participate in before being returned to the convent where the nuns would then punish them for wrinkling their clothing or being covered in semen.

“Bishop Karl-Heinz Wiesmann, who now leads the archdiocese, said that the abuse report was ‘so gory’ it would be too shocking to make public.”

The report finds that 175 people, mostly boys between the ages of 8 and 14, were abused over two decades.
But it failed to blame the nuns directly, instead saying “systematic” management errors and “leniency” for those who were accused by the children enabled the abuse to continue.

Haucke, who led the victims' group of those who survived the nuns until he resigned over the censoring of the report, says Woelki told them in October 2020 that the report was not “legally watertight” and contained “inadmissible prejudices” against the Catholic church that were fed by scandals going on elsewhere. “The survivors were used again,” he said, referring to their cooperation in the report only to have it kept private. “People who have already been damaged in their lives by clergymen are being damaged again to protect the institution.”

The lawsuit also spawned a survey within religious orders that found that 1,412 people who lived in or frequented convents, parishes, and monasteries were abused as children, teenagers, and wards by at least 654 monks, nuns, and other members of the orders. Around 80 percent of the victims surveyed were male and 20 percent female.


The survey also found that 80 percent of the abusers are now dead, and 37 had left the priesthood or religious order.

The Archdiocese of Cologne told The Daily Beast in a statement that the reason the report was not published was that it failed to fully explain the methodology of the research, but Bishop Karl-Heinz Wiesmann, who now leads the archdiocese, said that the abuse report was “so gory” it would be too shocking to make public. Wiesemann told the Catholic News Agency KNA that after reading it he had to take a month's sabbatical to recover. “I too have limited energy for the burdens I have to carry,” he said.

The main abusers in the report are now dead and many of the victims have settled with the church for financial compensation, which has prohibited them from joining the lawsuit. The archdiocese now plans to publish a new revised, and undoubtedly heavily redacted, edition of the report in March.
 

jonNorth

Sparrow
https://www.thedailybeast.com/german-nuns-sold-orphaned-children-to-sexual-predators-says-report

ROME—A jarring report outlining decades of rampant child sex abuse at the hands of greedy nuns and perverted priests in the Archdiocese of Cologne, Germany, paints a troubling picture of systematic abuse in the German church.

The report is the byproduct of a lawsuit alleging that orphaned boys living in the boarding houses of the Order of the Sisters of the Divine Redeemer were sold or loaned for weeks at a time to predatory priests and businessmen in a sick rape trade. The men involved in the lawsuit say as boys they were denied being adopted out or sent to foster families because selling them for rape lined the sisters’ coffers for their “convent of horrors.” Some of the boys were then groomed to be sex slaves to perverts, the report claims.

The alleged abuse went on for years, with one of the males claiming the nuns even frequently visited their college dorms after they had left the convent. He said the nuns often drugged him and delivered him to predators’ apartments. The Order of Sisters of the Divine Redeemer did not answer multiple requests for comment about the allegations.

The lawsuit, first reported by Deutsche Welle last year, is being led by 63-year-old victim Karl Haucke who, along with 15 other former orphans, demanded the Archdiocese of Cologne carry out a full investigation, which it concluded in January 2021. But the details of that investigative report were so horrific that Archbishop Reiner Maria Woelki refused to make it public, demanding that any journalists who see it sign confidentiality agreements. Eight German journalists walked out of a press conference in January after being denied access to the church’s investigation unless they agreed not to publish its contents.

Haucke says he was abused at least once a week between the ages of 11 and 14, often by more than one priest. “We had no words to describe what was being done to us. Nor did we know what it meant. And it did not stop at physical pain. We had a clear sense of humiliation and being used,” he told Deutsche Welle when the report was due to be released. He called the stifling of the report's release in January “scandalous” and said that denying the journalists the right to publish the report was “like being abused all over again.”

Now, several lawyers with access to the 560-page report have shared segments with news outlets, including The Daily Beast. The report names various German businessmen and complicit clergy who “rented” the young boys from the nuns who ran a convent in Speyer, Germany between the 1960s and 1970s. Among the worst instances of abuse were gang bangs and orgies the young boys were forced to participate in before being returned to the convent where the nuns would then punish them for wrinkling their clothing or being covered in semen.

“Bishop Karl-Heinz Wiesmann, who now leads the archdiocese, said that the abuse report was ‘so gory’ it would be too shocking to make public.”

The report finds that 175 people, mostly boys between the ages of 8 and 14, were abused over two decades. But it failed to blame the nuns directly, instead saying “systematic” management errors and “leniency” for those who were accused by the children enabled the abuse to continue.

Haucke, who led the victims' group of those who survived the nuns until he resigned over the censoring of the report, says Woelki told them in October 2020 that the report was not “legally watertight” and contained “inadmissible prejudices” against the Catholic church that were fed by scandals going on elsewhere. “The survivors were used again,” he said, referring to their cooperation in the report only to have it kept private. “People who have already been damaged in their lives by clergymen are being damaged again to protect the institution.”

The lawsuit also spawned a survey within religious orders that found that 1,412 people who lived in or frequented convents, parishes, and monasteries were abused as children, teenagers, and wards by at least 654 monks, nuns, and other members of the orders. Around 80 percent of the victims surveyed were male and 20 percent female.

The survey also found that 80 percent of the abusers are now dead, and 37 had left the priesthood or religious order.

The Archdiocese of Cologne told The Daily Beast in a statement that the reason the report was not published was that it failed to fully explain the methodology of the research, but Bishop Karl-Heinz Wiesmann, who now leads the archdiocese, said that the abuse report was “so gory” it would be too shocking to make public. Wiesemann told the Catholic News Agency KNA that after reading it he had to take a month's sabbatical to recover. “I too have limited energy for the burdens I have to carry,” he said.

The main abusers in the report are now dead and many of the victims have settled with the church for financial compensation, which has prohibited them from joining the lawsuit. The archdiocese now plans to publish a new revised, and undoubtedly heavily redacted, edition of the report in March.

80% of the accused are dead. I'm not a denier but how would the extent of abuse ever be proven to be true or not true. There is a lot of hatred for Catholics in the world. There are a lot of evil child abusers as well.
 

Lavabis Me

Sparrow
80% of the accused are dead. I'm not a denier but how would the extent of abuse ever be proven to be true or not true. There is a lot of hatred for Catholics in the world. There are a lot of evil child abusers as well.
The "meja" loves them some Catholic Church sex scandal: even one 50 years old. Never mind all the abuse going on right now in Hollywood, public schools, "migrant carvans" (otherwise known as human trafficking caravans), private islands and yachts of the rich and famous and their tools in politics. Ep-who? And that doesn't even include the trans-agenda abuse going on to turn normal kids with normal issues into freaks to serve the appetites of the perverts.

Bug Hall talked in his video about how in Hollywood abusers where an "open secret", yet none of them or their organizations/industries have ever gotten the "Catholic Church" treatment - even though the abuse is an order of magnitude greater in those places and on-going.

This doesn't let the Church off the hook: but why the hell would these news stories go back 50 years, and not look at the current goings-on at the Vatican with its current occupant, and what he may or may not have done or encouraged in Argentina? Could it be because he's "their guy", so they can attack the "traditional church" of several generations ago, and give the current lavender mafia a pass?
 

DeFide

Robin
The "meja" loves them some Catholic Church sex scandal: even one 50 years old. Never mind all the abuse going on right now in Hollywood, public schools, "migrant carvans" (otherwise known as human trafficking caravans), private islands and yachts of the rich and famous and their tools in politics. Ep-who? And that doesn't even include the trans-agenda abuse going on to turn normal kids with normal issues into freaks to serve the appetites of the perverts.

Bug Hall talked in his video about how in Hollywood abusers where an "open secret", yet none of them or their organizations/industries have ever gotten the "Catholic Church" treatment - even though the abuse is an order of magnitude greater in those places and on-going.

This doesn't let the Church off the hook: but why the hell would these news stories go back 50 years, and not look at the current goings-on at the Vatican with its current occupant, and what he may or may not have done or encouraged in Argentina? Could it be because he's "their guy", so they can attack the "traditional church" of several generations ago, and give the current lavender mafia a pass?
I wish I could post screenshots here. It’s from his Twitter account. Apparently TPTB at Youtube have shadow banned his video.

Now why would they do that?
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Woodpecker
^ I personally liked the movie. I thought the production overall was great, and I enjoyed watching it. Considering how few Catholic movies Hollywood releases, i'm inclined to be less harsh when reviewing them. However, I have been seeing people giving it negative reviews because it does not follow the actual story of Our Lady of Fatima close enough, among other things which I will not spoil. I do not know the whole story of Our Lady of Fatima (i have heard talks on it here and there) but if you do happen to know all the details, it seems you will be disappointed. If you don't know all the details, then it is more likely you will enjoy it. You can always wait a few months to rent the movie as well if you don't want to shell out 20 bucks.

In other news, has anyone watched the new video Fr. Altman released? It is one of the most zealous videos I have seen from a Priest in recent times. Truly amazing and I will be praying for Fr. Altman tonight, as everyone else should too. The higher ups will NOT be happy with this:

Fr. James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period.



Fr. Altman is great and under-rated. A true Chad.
 

Lavabis Me

Sparrow
What do y'all have planned for Lent?!
Fasting and Abstinence: I'm going to try to follow the older (before 1962) practice - fast every day of Lent except Sundays (1 full meal and two smaller ones per day), and abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday, all Fridays, and Holy Saturday before noon, observance of Ember week in Lent (the Wed, Fri, Sat after Ash Wednesday, which imposes partial abstinence on that Wed and Sat). That is my minimum goal. I'm ashamed to have to confess I've never perfectly reached these goals in previous attempts. I pray for the grace amid the evil engulfing our civilization to be able to offer this Lenten season's fasting and abstinence as reparation.

Alms: In addition to the normal giving at Sunday Masses, I'm going to contribute to the poor box (which all stays locally) to help those having hard financial times.

Personal: I'm someone that is prone to anger quickly and use a sharp tongue. I'm praying especially for the grace to pay attention to the fore-warnings when those failings are welling up in me, and, for the love of Christ and His Five Wounds, to not indulge in the satisfaction of venting my anger.

Reading: I'm planning to read Dom Prosper Gueranger's The Liturgical Year, vol 5 "Lent".

Prayer: Adding one more office per day to the Divine Office (I only consistently do Compline currently), and to practice mental prayer 15 minutes per day.

Behavorial: Besides this site's Catholic and Catholic related threads, I'm abstaining from all internet political reading. No Unz, Vox, Revolver, RT, Gateway Pundit, etc. I'll let God worry about "current events" for the duration.

I pledge that, with God's grace, if I stumble on any of these to not just "chuck" the whole operation, but combat the very next challenge anew for the sake of His Holy Passion and His infinite love for us.

Pax vobiscum
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Thanks for sharing.
Fasting and Abstinence: I'm going to try to follow the older (before 1962) practice - fast every day of Lent except Sundays (1 full meal and two smaller ones per day), and abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday, all Fridays, and Holy Saturday before noon, observance of Ember week in Lent (the Wed, Fri, Sat after Ash Wednesday, which imposes partial abstinence on that Wed and Sat). That is my minimum goal. I'm ashamed to have to confess I've never perfectly reached these goals in previous attempts. I pray for the grace amid the evil engulfing our civilization to be able to offer this Lenten season's fasting and abstinence as reparation.
How do you define "two small meals?" I've always struggled with this. I've been doing intermittent fasting pretty much every day for the last 6 years. I eat lunch at noon and dinner at 6, and that's it. Do you weigh your food or something? I'm trying to figure out how I can be stricter about fast days. The abstinence is straightforward but fasting is not so clear.
Behavorial: Besides this site's Catholic and Catholic related threads, I'm abstaining from all internet political reading. No Unz, Vox, Revolver, RT, Gateway Pundit, etc. I'll let God worry about "current events" for the duration.
Likewise, I'm considering giving up all non-essential internet. Last year I tried to do no internet at home, but that came crashing down when WFH started.
 

Lavabis Me

Sparrow
How do you define "two small meals?" I've always struggled with this. I've been doing intermittent fasting pretty much every day for the last 6 years. I eat lunch at noon and dinner at 6, and that's it. Do you weigh your food or something? I'm trying to figure out how I can be stricter about fast days. The abstinence is straightforward but fasting is not so clear.
The Church defines it as the two small meals together adding up to less food than the one full meal. Fisheaters is a great site for finding out the things that used to be common knowledge among Catholics:


In your situation (and mine, too), this is an area where subjectivity can and should be applied. In the big picture fasting for you and I is not anywhere near the fasting practices of a Desert Father from the 4th C., right? We'd probably drop dead on day 5 trying keep up with them.

So if you've acclimated yourself over the years to where two meals in a 6 hour window is easy for you, try making it 5 hours. If that, too, is easy then drop to 4. Try making one of the meals smaller than you normally would, or skip it entirely once or twice a week, and if you can handle that, try three times a week. Nota bene: if you have any medical conditions, are elderly, pregnant (if you're a woman reading this), etc., you are not under any obligation to harm your health through fasting.

I think of it like working out: everyone has a different capacity for the number of reps to failure. It won't be the same for me and you. If it hurts a little and you're struggling a bit, you're doing it right.

Likewise, I'm considering giving up all non-essential internet. Last year I tried to do no internet at home, but that came crashing down when WFH started.
Yes, all around me are the ashes of the good Lenten intentions and devotions I planned that burned to the ground in week two. But you know what? Even failing in the attempt is good; it teaches you humility: "not so tough as you thought you were, eh, boy?" We need Christ so, so badly in our lives. We're helpless in even the smallest things we attempt without Him.

Pax vobis, redbeard. Keep plugging away and let's encourage everyone that comes across these humble posts of ours to keep fighting the good fight and running the race. If 2020 and 2021 are teaching us anything it is that: cling to Christ and never, ever stop trying to conform ourselves to Him.
 
Hello.

I am a confessional Lutheran. I am growing exceedingly tired of the growing factionalism within my own church body, and I have very few options in my country for Biblical Lutheran churches.

It has made me wonder if Protestantism wasn't God's will.

One big factor that I'm not on board with yet is the belief of Holy Tradition being as equally authoritative as Scripture. To a Lutheran who values God's Word, what proof do you have that I should submit to the Magisterium? I ask in all honesty, seeking God's truth.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Hello.

I am a confessional Lutheran. I am growing exceedingly tired of the growing factionalism within my own church body, and I have very few options in my country for Biblical Lutheran churches.

It has made me wonder if Protestantism wasn't God's will.

One big factor that I'm not on board with yet is the belief of Holy Tradition being as equally authoritative as Scripture. To a Lutheran who values God's Word, what proof do you have that I should submit to the Magisterium? I ask in all honesty, seeking God's truth.

Jesus Christ didn't rubber stamp the Bible, he founded a Church on Peter "the Rock".

The Biblical Canon was formalized in the 4th or 5th century. The Nicene Creed was established in 325AD at the Council Of Nicea.

Catholic Theology agrees with Biblical Scripture in all ways. Divorcing the scripture from the Church, removes the context of tradition, and the works of those who helped form the Church in the early days such as the Church Fathers.
 
Jesus Christ didn't rubber stamp the Bible, he founded a Church on Peter "the Rock".

The Biblical Canon was formalized in the 4th or 5th century. The Nicene Creed was established in 325AD at the Council Of Nicea.

Catholic Theology agrees with Biblical Scripture in all ways. Divorcing the scripture from the Church, removes the context of tradition, and the works of those who helped form the Church in the early days such as the Church Fathers.
To which I would reply: the letters themselves were in circulation, and their infallibility is not derived from the Church, by the Holy Ghost. The medium of the word, written or oral, doesn't matter -- the Word itself is what is inspired. I'm honestly not here to troll or rile any Catholics up, but trying to discern truth through discussion.

Also, I am very, very convinced by the teaching YECreationism. I believe the Bible, in multiple books, is exceedlingly clear that the creation events are meants to be taken at face value, not as a symbol or allegory. It's hard, at this point, for me to convert to a church which tolerates an allegorical reading of Genesis 1-11. I despise that theological liberalism which caves way for scientific consensus. Those are the two big issues for me: Papal Authority, and tolerance of evolution. Can you point me in a direction which addresses such issues? Sacramental theology is fine, for me. As is apostolic tradition...which the Lutheran church values, but not equally to written Scripture.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
To which I would reply: the letters themselves were in circulation, and their infallibility is not derived from the Church, by the Holy Ghost. The medium of the word, written or oral, doesn't matter -- the Word itself is what is inspired. I'm honestly not here to troll or rile any Catholics up, but trying to discern truth through discussion.

Also, I am very, very convinced by the teaching YECreationism. I believe the Bible, in multiple books, is exceedlingly clear that the creation events are meants to be taken at face value, not as a symbol or allegory. It's hard, at this point, for me to convert to a church which tolerates an allegorical reading of Genesis 1-11. I despise that theological liberalism which caves way for scientific consensus. Those are the two big issues for me: Papal Authority, and tolerance of evolution. Can you point me in a direction which addresses such issues? Sacramental theology is fine, for me. As is apostolic tradition...which the Lutheran church values, but not equally to written Scripture.

The letters were in circulation, but not all were put into the Canon. The Church oversaw the process. There is a Gospel of Thomas, but it isn't in a Catholic Bible or a Lutheran Bible. As a Lutheran, why is the Gospel of Thomas not in your Bible? As a Catholic I can say "Council of Nicaea" representing the authority of the living Church decided. I'd be curious to know your answer on this.

The Church does tolerate an allegorical reading of Genesis. I agree with you that it is an error, stemming from theological liberalism. But as Catholics we believe there can be errors in Church teaching, but not core tenets of the Faith. The infallibility of the Church comes with the Dogma, which is a clearly defined Truth which going against makes you a heretic. Right now in terms of evolution, there is "flexibility". Peter Helland is a Catholic who is very much against Evolution, and he has some good videos on this topic. So from my perspective this shouldn't exclude you. Peter Helland YouTube Video against Evolution

Papal Authority goes to your belief in the Church. It only applies to when the Pope is explicitly speaking Ex Cathedra, which is a rare situation. I don't think a Pope has spoken Ex Cathedra in my lifetime. The last time the Pope a Pope spoke Ex Cathedra was in 1950, declaring the assumption of Mary Assumption of Mary
 
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Slide-Rule

Sparrow
Hello.

I am a confessional Lutheran. I am growing exceedingly tired of the growing factionalism within my own church body, and I have very few options in my country for Biblical Lutheran churches.

It has made me wonder if Protestantism wasn't God's will.

One big factor that I'm not on board with yet is the belief of Holy Tradition being as equally authoritative as Scripture. To a Lutheran who values God's Word, what proof do you have that I should submit to the Magisterium? I ask in all honesty, seeking God's truth.Hello,
Hello,

There is the classic "proof-text" of 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

"So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter." The NIV translation (because it was on top of biblehub.com).

It is also translated as "whether by word or by epistle..." in the KJV. That is referring to the Magisterium of the Church. Look at Roosh himself for an example of this concept. His articles he writes are very insightful. Then watch his podcasts. There are things in his podcasts and videos that he never touches on in his writings, and vice versa. To understand Roosh's "full teachings" you have to look at both. It is no different than with St. Paul here. There is a lot of great teachings in writings, but that is not everything he taught to the earliest Christians. One needs to trust St. Paul's successors, the Bishops, all working together.

In many ways you already are submitting to the Magisterium of the Church. Do you believe that public Revelation stopped after the death of the last Apostle? That is a conclusion the Magisterium has come to. That is found no where in the Bible.

Do you believe in the Trinitarian God? The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. That theological-concept is a conclusion of the Magisterium of the Church.

Pax Christi.
 
The letters were in circulation, but not all were put into the Canon. The Church oversaw the process. There is a Gospel of Thomas, but it isn't in a Catholic Bible or a Lutheran Bible. As a Lutheran, why is the Gospel of Thomas not in your Bible? As a Catholic I can say "Council of Nicaea" representing the authority of the living Church decided. I'd be curious to know your answer on this.

The Church does tolerate an allegorical reading of Genesis. I agree with you that it is an error, stemming from theological liberalism. But as Catholics we believe there can be errors in Church teaching, but not core tenets of the Faith. The infallibility of the Church comes with the Dogma, which is a clearly defined Truth which going against makes you a heretic. Right now in terms of evolution, there is "flexibility". Peter Helland is a Catholic who is very much against Evolution, and he has some good videos on this topic. So from my perspective this shouldn't exclude you. Peter Helland YouTube Video against Evolution

Papal Authority goes to your belief in the Church. It only applies to when the Pope is explicitly speaking Ex Cathedra, which is a rare situation. I don't think a Pope has spoken Ex Cathedra in my lifetime. The last time the Pope a Pope spoke Ex Cathedra was in 1950, declaring the assumption of Mary Assumption of Mary
Thank you for this reply. For Lutherans, the way that we discern what is and is not inspired text is by asking "was this text written by an apostle or one of the apostle's very close followers (beyond historical question)?" For example, we conclude that St. Paul's epistles are inspired as he claimed to be an apostle (2 Corinthians 12) and the other living apostles chosen by Jesus affirmed this (Galatians 2). We know that Christ promised the discplies that He would grant them the Holy Ghost to protect them from error (John 16:13). Therefore, the apostles' writings are infalliable. It is round about logic, but I can see the logic in it.

That is comforting to know, in regard to evolution being firmly rejected by some Catholics. I am just burned out and growing cynical and acceptance of theological liberalism. It is destroying the church I belong to. It has no mercy; it devours anything and anyone who would give it the chance.

Thanks for the link to Helland. Do you have any youtube or book or podcast suggestions to help to become introduced to Catholicism and the proofs for it? I don't know where to really begin.
 
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