The Chemtrails Survey Thread

Have you seen them and what do you think?

  • I've seen them and I think they are definitely spraying something deliberately..

    Votes: 56 29.6%
  • I've seen them, they're just normal jet stream contrails.

    Votes: 122 64.6%
  • Never seen it.

    Votes: 11 5.8%

  • Total voters
    189

K Galt

Woodpecker
I recently got back from a weeks vacation in Vegas. 5 out of the 7 days I was there, I noticed Jet planes over the Vegas valley, way up high, criss-crossing the sky with long plumes that very slowly dissipated over the course of many hours throughout the day. As they dissipated, the skies grew cloudy and hazy and stayed that way for hours.

I've been to Vegas many many times in the past decade, but this is the first time I ever noticed this.

In my "conspiracy theory" readings on teh Interwebz, I've read a little bit on the topic of "chemtrails," but I have never seen them here in Hawaii, so I never really gave the topic too much thought. But seeing them for myself made me a lot more interested now. I've been doing some more reading and see this topic is somewhat controversial...but I know one thing: I believe my lying eyes.

This guys blog has pics and vids that look exactly like what I witnessed - http://www.jaymccarthy.com/chemtrails-over-las-vegas-photos/



What I witnessed was a systematic action of jet planes laying down a pattern of jet streams, almost like "lawn mowing the sky" on 5 of the 7 days I was there.

I've read the fantastical, unbelievable and mundane explanations for this phenomena (from combating global warming to geo-engineering the weather to deliberate spraying of heavy metals to cause population sickness), as well as the supposed mainstream, conventional wisdom explanation (there just natural jet stream contrails).

As of right now, I believe only one thing about this topic - the idea this is much ado about nothing or a normal phenomena is utter bullshit. What I witnessed looks deliberate and systematic.

I'm curious to see how many RVF members across the USA see the same sort of activity over there cities/towns? Any RVF members in other countries see the same thing going on in their skies?
 

LaserBear

Woodpecker
I'll fear them as much as I fear other non lightning producing clouds.

Your systematic looking pattern could be a bunch of planes flying in a deliberate holding pattern as they wait for their turn to land at the airport.
Or just a natural crisscross resulting in airports flying in straight lines over Vegas.

The science behind them is easily explained here.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

What's more likely? Its something benign and people are freaking out for no reason... or the government is secretly dousing the country with something by rigging up private industry jets and no pilot has came out and commented on how sometimes his plane sprays chemicals for no reason.
Or that the entire aviation industry is in on it together from the high ups down to the stewards... because just one company never having trails, could make a single press release about how the competition is poisoning to populace, and sieze market share... so every single company would have to be completely in on it together
 

K Galt

Woodpecker
Your systematic looking pattern could be a bunch of planes flying in a deliberate holding pattern as they wait for their turn to land at the airport.

No chance, LaserBear. For one, the jets I watched doing this where flying at a much higher altitude then the planes coming in for landing at McCarran Int., for another, where I live in Hawaii, I have a clear view of both the Honolulu Int airport and Hickam Airforce base. I've seen thousands of Jets, both commercial and military fly in and out of Hawaii. Fighter jets, massive cargo planes, commercial jets...we have a shitload of air traffic here, 24-7. Not once did I ever see anything like what I saw in Vegas.

And yes, I've seen plenty of normal contrails from jets in Hawaiian skies. They don't stretch for miles across the sky and take hours to dissipate like what I saw in Vegas.

...so every single company would have to be completely in on it together

I don't think I was watching commercial jets in action...but they were way to high up for me to make out any markings on them, so I concede I could be wrong.
 
It is funny how people get used to the unorthodox - they should go watch some movies going back even to the 1990s. Go watch movies from busy air-traffic sites like London or New York and watch the skies now.

And don't give me the crap about 200% increased air traffic. Even if - the skies back then were crystal clear. Contrails did not grow into cloud formations, but disappeared.

There are so many infos out there even by famous whistle blowers and scientists that I will just leave this fine song by NZTrillion:


And here a bit more scientific details on the topic:

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/03...t-published-by-the-air-force-academy-in-1990/

Sooner or later they will admit that they have been doing something for some bogus reasons or they count on the fact that the people will have other problems to worry too much about what is happening above them.
 

Ziltoid

Pelican
Easily one of the dumbest conspiracy theories out there, in my opinion.
The US couldn't keep secret the fact that one extremely secretive monolithic entity (the NSA) is spying on the entire world, they can't keep secret that the CIA has it's sticky fingers in the affairs of tons of other countries, but I'm supposed to believe that commercial airliners from the board members down to the minimum wage engineers could keep spraying chemicals into the atmosphere under wraps? Not to mention air traffic controllers, university researchers, meteorologists...

People that believe in chemtrails are prettymuch this lady.
 

Engineer

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Zelcorpion said:
Sooner or later they will admit that they have been doing something for some bogus reasons or they count on the fact that the people will have other problems to worry too much about what is happening above them.

OK, I'll be the first to admit, I've been doing something. Actually 2 things. Sometimes 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. Usually for a bogus reason. Please don't worry about what is happening above you, focus on your other problems. Consume. Obey. Rawdog.

:kermit::kermit:
 

Billy Chubbs

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I have no doubt that many first world governments are currently trying their damnedest to figure out very intricate and incredibly despicable ways to control their people...but that is just a massive circle jerk.

It doesn't take something as prohibitively expensive and technologically advanced as a chemtrail sprayed mental control agent to do so. Most people are naturally weak willed sheeple; look at how they jumped at the government's propaganda about the shot down airliner in the Ukraine, released with no, or obviously fabricated, evidence while the plane was still smouldering. They [the public] did not even try to seek out alternative sources, or simply hold off on their judgement until a reasonably honest explanation was delivered. Western governments pointed at Putin and shouted "MONSTER!!" and the majority of the population booed right on cue, conveniently ignoring how our biggest Middle Eastern 'ally' was currently invading another country and slaughtering civilians of all sex and ages.

The insane amount of estrogen in the water supply is a far more effective means of population control than any conspiracy theory (plausible or otherwise) I've ever read. It's making men more like women, altering our brain chemistry for the worse and causing us to lose our drive and our strength of will - and there's no way to avoid it, since you can't stop drinking water. Of course, the estrogen in the water is just a happy (for corrupt governments) by-product of the birth control pill and not a planned conspiracy, but it is in the government's best interest to keep all that chemical filled, vaginally sprayed urine flowing into the aqueducts, so don't expect them to give anything more than very quiet lip service to solving one of the biggest health issues of our times. Hell, on the contrary, in the US, they're trying to get women free birth control so they piss even more of it into our mouths. What does that tell you?

The MAN doesn't need a massive, complex and extraordinarily expensive system of control to keep the population numb and in check. The vast majority of people willingly limit themselves by choice with a minimum of coercion, and those that don't are under bombardment from all other sorts of shit (fast food, drugs, entertainment media, estrogen water) that any nefarious and highly engineered scheme unleashed on the people by the government is just a cupful of gasoline thrown onto an already blazing fire.
 

tarquin

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Occam's Razor as per above.

OP, do you think that the phenomena may be different in Hawaii and Las Vegas because of different atmospheric conditions that exist over a group of pacific islands versus a desert?

They should have an X-Prize for this. The first group that proves these are not the result of normal jet exhaust win a Million Dollars. It would be simple. Observe a "chemtrail" in the air, fly up to it and collect samples. In order for it to be scientific, the samples must be collected from the "chemtrail" and compared to samples from a control group of contrails. If aluminum or whatever else is claimed exists in these "chemtrail" air samples... then you get the Million Dollars. If not, you just wasted a bunch of money and the null hypothesis stands.
 

K Galt

Woodpecker
Just to clarify...I'm not posting this thread to try and promote "conspiracy theory." I simply don't know anything factual about this topic, other then what I saw with my own eyes.

I'm very familiar with regular jet stream contrails. I see them all the time - especially from all the fighter jets that fly in Hawaiian skies. I've even seen jet fighters leave very long streaks across the sky....but they always dissipate in a manner of minutes, and leave behind no trace.

What I saw in Vegas was something quite different.
 

Monty_Brogan

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Just no. Some highlights from r/aviation

Engineer here.

Where do they suppose the chemical tanks are on the aircraft? I've never seen one and I haven't seen any entry on any scheduled inspection to inspect one or the required pumps, mixing valves, pipe work, injection nozzles etc!

Then how is the chemical loaded? I haven't seen any support cart that is not for normal service on the ramp. In the fuel? Go to a refinery and show me the mixing tank. Anyway putting the weird chemicals in fuel would show up on a fuel check.

Don't they realise aviation is the most regulated business on the planet? We have to sign for every single thing we do. There would be a paperwork trail and as it would need tens of thousands of people in on the conspiracy, right from the designers of the aircraft and engines, through pilots and engineers, to the ramp personal, you couldn’t possibly keep it secret.

http://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/nodt5/til_that_people_think_chemtrails_are_a_real_thing/


Whenever a post like this comes up i bring up the same thing.

Of all of the elements to be chosen for this conspiracy it's Barium and aluminium, the knife to the heart of the conspiracy.
First lets establish what Barium is(won't even get into aluminium, the concentration of it is supposidly higher than barium which makes the conspiracy even more stupid); Barium is an Earth metal, it's metallic. This conspiracy calls for barium to be released from the aircraft creating a trail of vapor miles long.

Now lets talk about WX radar used by aircraft. For those who don't know how it works This is an excellent example.[1] Can wx detect contrails left by aircraft? If you google this question you will be presented by conspiracy sites that say no, but this is not true. when wx are set to high gain with a tight spread and aimed at contrails they do show up very faintly, this also depends on distance. The closer your radar is to contrails the easier they are to detect.

So what if these contrails are actually chem trails, how would the wx react to them? Lets go over what wx does, aircraft wx is looking for water in the air, the radar single reflects off of water droplets. When this water is a light vapor packed in clouds it is displayed as green, when it is more dense it becomes more yellow then orange and red is extremely dense (think thunderstorms). This color coding is a representation of how much radiation is coming back to the radar.

Metallic particles are HIGHLY reflective, radar signals do not pass through them very well unlike water, so what if you replaced water vapor with chemicals containing metallic particles? The wx display would light up like a Christmas tree, any chem-trail in range would be displayed in a thick yellow to red depending on how dispersed it is. It doesn't matter how thin the trail is, the metallic particles would bounce back the radar singles better than densely packed water droplets.
People often respond to this by saying "well maybe they only use enough barium to not be detected", what would be the point? They would have to use an incredibly small amount of barium in the mixture to go undetected, not very effective is it?

The next defense i hear is "Maybe the radar is tuned to ignore anything more reflective than water?" Interesting however it doesn't exactly function that way, you can't ignore singles that are higher than others, but you can hide signals that have a lower intensity than others(thats how radars meant for detecting aircraft sort through the mess.). Lets look at page 12[2] of the example. As you can see wx can pick up entire cities when directed at the ground ( it even picks up the ground).

I try to keep this post simple because radar gets complex, we don't even need to get into ground based radar to refute chemtrails.

http://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/27gzaz/the_conspiracy_that_isnt_debunking_chemtrails/
 

K Galt

Woodpecker
OP, do you think that the phenomena may be different in Hawaii and Las Vegas because of different atmospheric conditions that exist over a group of pacific islands versus a desert?

That may be exactly what's going on...except while reading up on this topic and checking out youtube vids and pics, these chemtrail sightings have been reported all over the continental US, over a wide variety of climate zones.

Also, I should clarify that on one of the days in Vegas, I literally sat there and watched the Jets spraying these trails for over an hour. As I said, it looked to me like they were systematically criss crossing the sky to make a deliberate pattern with these trails. They would streak for miles, then stop emitting any trail, turn around and streak again in the other direction leaving a trail again.

At the exact same time, I noted a number of commercial airline jets take off and land at MacCarran International at lower altitudes, and none of those Jets left any such streams behind.

:wtf:
 

AntiTrace

Ostrich
Whats easier to believe?

Case A: "Chemtrails" are a natural reaction to condensation formed by the requirements of turbojet flight at high altitudes (and they sometimes occur on the ground if the conditions are right).

or

Case B: "Chemtrails" are indeed a gigantic conspiracy that involves key players at every level of aviation. From the maintenance personnel that would have to install spraying equipment, to the personnel that would have to fill and maintain said equipment, to the pilots that would have to switch on said spraying equipment at altitude, to the aviation inspectors that would have to turn a blind eye, and to anyone else that works in and around large jets.


I'll take case A. You can believe the crazy guys on public access channels, or you can believe the people that work close in with the aviation industry and understand how regulated it is and could shoot holes in the chemtrail theory all day long. A true chemtrail conspiracy would require millions of people to keep their mouths shut. That would millions of people that are genuinely evil people that don't care about the good of mankind.

Atmospheric testing via airplanes is nothing new. A systematic effort to spray dangerous chemicals over national airspace in order to accomplish some sinister goal is not. Just remember, the more complicated something is, the more moving parts it has, the more likely it is fail.
 

LaserBear

Woodpecker
You didnt finish that sentence AntiTrace....

It would require millions of people to stay quiet....
About a conspiracy that was poisoning/controlling/altering their OWN AIR that they breathe. And their families.
 

K Galt

Woodpecker
Case B: "Chemtrails" are indeed a gigantic conspiracy that involves key players at every level of aviation.

This seems to be the common straw man argument used in this thread.

I am aware of the conspiracy theory sites that have claimed commercial aircrafts have been rigged to spray. I don't buy that theory in the least.

If chemtrails are in fact a deliberate spraying of SOMETHING in the atmosphere, it's being done by unmarked jets that are not easily identified.

As I noted, I watched a number of commercial aircraft take off and land at McCarran International Airport. I could easily make out the markings of the various airline companies logos and names on the aircraft's tailfins and airframes.

The jets I saw spraying these long lasting, very slowly dissipating trails were unidentifiable, and flying in a systematic, deliberate pattern across the sky, at a higher altitude than the approaching and departing jets using the McCarran International Airport.

I'm not claiming any knowledge of what is or isn't being sprayed...only that I'm utterly convinced that what I saw was simply NOT normal contrails from standard jet aircraft operation. I know what that looks like, and what I saw was definitely different.

I made this thread to see if any other RVF may have made similar observations, not to argue the veracity or purported idiocy of the various conspiracy theories.
 

Ziltoid

Pelican
K Galt, not trying to be condescending but I sense you have very little knowledge of how air traffic control works.
In fairness, I don't know that much either, but I know that there is no such thing as planes that are "not easily identified". Everything in the sky is prettymuch either known exactly what it is, where it's going, where it's from, and what it's doing, or it raises serious alarm bells. ESPECIALLY in the airspace above major cities.
 

K Galt

Woodpecker
K Galt, not trying to be condescending but I sense you have very little knowledge of how air traffic control works.
In fairness, I don't know that much either, but I know that there is no such thing as planes that are "not easily identified".


All I'm saying Ziltoid, is that I could easily make out Southwest, American, United, and Delta Jets taking off and landing at McCarran. But these Jets leaving behind these criss cross trails where at a much higher altitude than the commercial jet traffic, and I could not make out their markings at all.

Aside from that, I'm fairly positive wherever their origin, they were not commercial airline jets. I've seen planes circling due to air traffic control waiting for clearance to land both at McCarran and here at Honolulu International. They don't do it at that kind of speed nor at that high of an altitude.

These jets I observed where flying much faster than any of the commercial jets I watched take off and land at McCarran.

Maybe there truly is no conspiracy. Maybe they are just the results of top secret military jet technology (Nellis Air Force Base is in the Vegas Valley) and they serve some other purpose...but damn, it does look crazy to watch these jets criss cross all over the sky, then dissappear, while their jet trails hang in the sky for hours and dissipate into a hazy cloud cover.
 

LaserBear

Woodpecker
Ziltoid said:
K Galt, not trying to be condescending but I sense you have very little knowledge of how air traffic control works.
In fairness, I don't know that much either, but I know that there is no such thing as planes that are "not easily identified". Everything in the sky is prettymuch either known exactly what it is, where it's going, where it's from, and what it's doing, or it raises serious alarm bells. ESPECIALLY in the airspace above major cities.


This is why it can't be herds of secret planes.
Swing by http://planefinder.net/ and check out ALL the planes in flight.

This stuff is heavily tracked.

And whoever was involved... would have to be ok with POISONING THEIR OWN AIR.


For a quick taste.


And....



I'm done now.
Going to go get drunk.
 

kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
Ziltoid said:
Easily one of the dumbest conspiracy theories out there, in my opinion.
The US couldn't keep secret the fact that one extremely secretive monolithic entity (the NSA) is spying on the entire world, they can't keep secret that the CIA has it's sticky fingers in the affairs of tons of other countries, but I'm supposed to believe that commercial airliners from the board members down to the minimum wage engineers could keep spraying chemicals into the atmosphere under wraps? Not to mention air traffic controllers, university researchers, meteorologists...

People that believe in chemtrails are prettymuch this lady.

The same people who were called 'conspiracy nuts' for saying the NSA was spying on you close to 10 years ago are the same folks reporting on chemtrails. Just saying.
 

Ziltoid

Pelican
kosko said:
Ziltoid said:
Easily one of the dumbest conspiracy theories out there, in my opinion.
The US couldn't keep secret the fact that one extremely secretive monolithic entity (the NSA) is spying on the entire world, they can't keep secret that the CIA has it's sticky fingers in the affairs of tons of other countries, but I'm supposed to believe that commercial airliners from the board members down to the minimum wage engineers could keep spraying chemicals into the atmosphere under wraps? Not to mention air traffic controllers, university researchers, meteorologists...

People that believe in chemtrails are prettymuch this lady.

The same people who were called 'conspiracy nuts' for saying the NSA was spying on you close to 10 years ago are the same folks reporting on chemtrails. Just saying.
I don't really think it's comparable, the NSA thing had major whistleblowers talking about it and being taken seriously years before the whole Edward Snowden debacle. It was pretty well known, just not brought to the concern of the public (and now that is has, they still don't even care). If they couldn't keep the doings of the most prestigious and high tech intelligence agency in the world a secret, I refuse to believe they could hide something like chemtrails. Flying hundreds of planes and blanketing major cities with chemicals requires way more overhead than a few dudes in cubicles secretly monitoring the Internet.

If and when Wikileaks publishes the tell-all account of chemtrails I'll gladly eat my words. Until then, I'm more concerned about the actual means the powers that be use to control the public, which are verymuch naked and out in the open.
 

tarquin

Kingfisher
Gold Member
It still looks like a natural occurrence to me. It just doesn't make sense why the government would use chemtrails to control my behavior when they already have the brain ray transmitters hidden in traffic signals.

I'll give the chemtrail people this:

Governments have used "chaff" for a variety of reasons but mostly radar disruption in conflicts. They have also used silver iodide for cloud seeding purposes with varying results.

Beyond that the wheels start to go into overdrive trying to prove it is the government.

If we make a big leap and assume that these are not normal contrails and are the work of government action, we must still pick the simplest explanation. Is it more likely that:

1. the government is doing testing of radar jamming technology (chaff) over populated areas despite there being multiple locations covered by radar with little population and better suited for this, or

2. the government is dumping behavior modifying chemicals to mass influence the populace, or

3. the government is attempting to influence the weather, or

4. the government has more advanced propulsion technology which use other fuels and result in different exhaust profiles, or

5. any combination of the above.


If anything, 3 and 4 are the most likely. Weather alteration because studies have already been conducted. However, given the drought conditions suffered in the West, I doubt that this is the reason. If it worked at all, we wouldn't have this problem and if it doesn't work worth a damn, they would have moved on to the next way to waste money. Number 4 is also suspect because it is unlikely that they would test or use newer technology over populated areas, but it also means that these are not "chemtrails" as defined by the conspiracy theorists.

In all honesty, attempts/studies concerning weather manipulation most definitely exist, but connection to "chemtrails" viewed from the ground is still wanting.
 
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