The Coffee Thread

Johnnyvee

Ostrich
The only good thing about coffee is that it get`s in the way of things that are worse. (appetite suppression) The antioxidant thing is not an argument really, as you can get that from so many other and better sources also. (including grass-fed red meat) And coffee will hurt you more as you get older, due to reduced epigenetic adaptation to the substance, and ageing in general.

I will say that coffee/caffeine can perhaps increase your cognitive function to an unnatural level. As Michael Pollan pointed out, it`s not by chance that you can track the adaptation of coffee with both the golden age of science on the Arab world, and later the enlightenment in Europe also.
 

Seeker79

Kingfisher
I've tried quitting but this is the one vice that I have deliberately kept. I drink one cup in the morning every day. Once in a while I treat myself to a cup in the afternoon. Science seems to go back and forth on the benefits of coffee. For me it tastes good and helps me maintain my morning fast.
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
I usually just cold brew my coffee in a mason jar on the counter overnight.

Then I'll filter out the grounds and keep it in the fridge.

It's cheap, easy, and makes inferior coffee beans taste wonderful. One or two cups is plenty.
 
I wanted to start this thread for coffee fans who are a bit more hardcore than the average coffee drinker.

Some questions to consider:

-What is your coffee routine like?
-What cafes and/or countries have the best quality?
-What beans do you prefer?
-How do you usually drink coffee?
-What method of brewing do you prefer?

Over 10 years ago I would drink lattes. Then I moved to cappuccinos and then espresso macchiatos. My trend has been to use less milk. Lately I've been trying espresso straight up without sugar and from that I can really tell the difference in quality between offerings from different cafes.

I found that without a question, Starbucks espresso is the absolute worst espresso I've encountered. It's really undrinkable without pouring in sugar. Random cafes are always better but they can lack consistency (i.e. you get a different cup depending on when you go) and the beans they use may not be the best.

I've also been experimenting with drink coffee (V60, Chemex), but they just don't compare to to thickness of espresso.
I'm Italian so I prefer espresso to regular coffee for the following reasons:

- the obvious one: it's a big part of Italian culture
- it does the job instantly, and gives you an instant kick of caffeine (because it is consumed quickly)
- the caffeine content is lower than a regular cup of coffee, so one can more safely consume multiple espressos per day if desired
- you don't have to consume a large volume of liquid, or walk around with one of those ghastly travel mugs...or tall xl coffee cups that look like a nuclear missile. There is an old world element of easy going class and sophistication (not the stuffy French snobbish variety) to drinking espresso, and it's very much a push back against the degeneracy of modernity. Catholics & Orthodox can unite in this regard and appreciate this simple act of rebellion
- it's closer to how coffee was consumed traditionally, being very similar to Greek and Turkish coffee (the difference being the Greeks & Turks usually take a little longer to enjoy the drink)
- the drink has blue collar / working class origins but unites everyone. Traditionally espresso was consumed standing up at a cafe bar. A quick hello, joke or some well wishes and then off to work
- it tastes much better than regular coffee, in my opinion. There is a depth and range of flavours and it offers a more enveloping sensory experience. From the intoxicating 'profumo' that hits you when you walk into an Italian cafe or bakery from the large espresso machines, to the thick crema and velvety mouthfeel, to the persistent but not bitter aftertaste.
- it's more economical: a small brick of ground espresso costs only about $3 and can last a month. Average about 10 cents per coffee...

To answer Roosh's questions in order:

What is your coffee routine like?

I am a morning person (hence the name Early Bird) so I don't drink coffee in the morning. As soon as I wake up I am ready to go and start kicking the day's ass. I enjoy 1 espresso per day, after lunch. Gives me a little boost to get through the rest of the work day. I sometimes have one about 25 minutes before a heavy workout as well. Occasionally I will make a decaf espresso after dinner. I will also enjoy a cappuccino occasionally.

What cafes and/or countries have the best quality?

I'm not too knowledgable about specific regions or altitudes, but I will say that the blend is perhaps just as important as the region. Just like with scotch whiskey, another enjoyment of mine, the art is in the blending, which is why Johnnie Walker Black is such a good whiskey for the price (it has some excellent single malts like Talisker in the mix). Although arabica beans get all the acclaim, robusta should not be overlooked. One of the reasons typical Italian espresso roasts are so darn tasty is because they are a blend of around 70% arabica with 30% robusta (give or take). The robusta has a much higher caffeine content and it responsible for that intense. almost burnt tire aroma. The arabica then smooths this out and offers some more nuanced notes.

In terms of cafes, all of the big names I've tried have horrible espresso. Starbucks is the worst. If you look at their espresso beans through the hopper you can see that they are jet black and very oily...this is too dark of a roast for espresso. It always tastes burnt, even if you ask for a long shot (more water). Even if a place has good beans and a very expensive machine, there is so much variance with the individual baristas because they are not properly trained. A good espresso is an art, and requires proper grinding, tamping, water temperature and amount. Sometimes you get a teaspoon amount of coffee that is as thick as molasses and tastes like burnt hair. Other times you get an overflowing cup of coffee-flavoured water...

I would suggest finding some local mom & pop hole in the wall places in your area, Italian bakeries, cafes, restaurants, etc. You can actually shoot the breeze with these people and they take pride in their work. These places often have a strong Christian/conservative/community feel and you won't find any LGBTQ+ flags around. If the coffee is good I'll just go in an have a quick espresso at the counter. Look for places frequented by older Italians or Europeans, as they tend to be quite picky. There is a Greek town close to me and I often enjoy traditional Greek coffee at several of the establishments there.

What beans do you prefer?

I am partial to a medium-dark roast. Too light is too acidic and watery, and too dark can be bitter (especially since I don't add sugar). Also, if using an automatic espresso machine that grinds the whole beans, very dark oily roasts will 'gum up' the machine.

Lavazza is great and their quality control is excellent. Based in Turin, northen Italy since 1895. I would recommend:
1) Gran Crema (7/10 intensity)
2) Crema e Gusto (slightly cheaper but just as good...more of a dark cocoa note)
3) Crema e Aroma (similar to Gran Crema)

Kimbo is another good coffee producer from Naples, since 1963. I would recommend:
1) Crema Intensa (6/10 roast, smooth, great crema, strong but not bitter)
2) Export Antica Tradizione (medium-dark roast, delicious, readily available)
3) Espresso Napolitano *also available in pods for nespresso style machines* (10 on the intensity scale, delicious, very similar to the export above)

Ionia is based in Sicily, since 1960. I would recommend their 'Special bar'. It's 70/30 arabica/robusta. Very strong but not bitter.

How do you usually drink coffee?

I drink my espresso black. Sometimes I will 'rinse' out the cup with a little bit of ouzo or an amaro (Italian herbal liquor). Espresso is always served with a small glass of water to rinse the palate. A sparkling water like San Pellegrino is also a nice treat occasionally.

What method of brewing do you prefer?

It's hard to beat the little stainless steel stove top maker ('cefetiera' in Italian). Quick, easy, economical, and fills your kitchen with a beautiful aroma. You won't get the crema with this method as there is not enough pressure to create this. But you will get a nice strong coffee.
I also have a little nespresso machine that makes espresso only (the small pods) and actually gives an excellent crema. This is good because it's easy to switch from different roasts or even decaf.
 
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Cartographer

Pelican
Gold Member
I'm Italian so I prefer espresso to regular coffee for the following reasons:

- the obvious one: it's a big part of Italian culture
- it does the job instantly, and gives you an instant kick of caffeine (because it is consumed quickly)
- the caffeine content is lower than a regular cup of coffee, so one can more safely consume multiple espressos per day if desired
- you don't have to consume a large volume of liquid, or walk around with one of those ghastly travel mugs...or tall xl coffee cups that look like a nuclear missile. There is an old world element of easy going class and sophistication (not the stuffy French snobbish variety) to drinking espresso, and it's very much a push back against the degeneracy of modernity. Catholics & Orthodox can unite in this regard and appreciate this simple act of rebellion
- it's closer to how coffee was consumed traditionally, being very similar to Greek and Turkish coffee (the difference being the Greeks & Turks usually take a little longer to enjoy the drink)
- the drink has blue collar / working class origins but unites everyone. Traditionally espresso was consumed standing up at a cafe bar. A quick hello, joke or some well wishes and then off to work
- it tastes much better than regular coffee, in my opinion. There is a depth and range of flavours and it offers a more enveloping sensory experience. From the intoxicating 'profumo' that hits you when you walk into an Italian cafe or bakery from the large espresso machines, to the thick crema and velvety mouthfeel, to the persistent but not bitter aftertaste.
- it's more economical: a small brick of ground espresso costs only about $3 and can last a month. Average about 10 cents per coffee...

To answer Roosh's questions in order:

What is your coffee routine like?

I am a morning person (hence the name Early Bird) so I don't drink coffee in the morning. As soon as I wake up I am ready to go and start kicking the day's ass. I enjoy 1 espresso per day, after lunch. Gives me a little boost to get through the rest of the work day. I sometimes have one about 25 minutes before a heavy workout as well. Occasionally I will make a decaf espresso after dinner. I will also enjoy a cappuccino occasionally.

What cafes and/or countries have the best quality?

I'm not too knowledgable about specific regions or altitudes, but I will say that the blend is perhaps just as important as the region. Just like with scotch whiskey, another enjoyment of mine, the art is in the blending, which is why Johnnie Walker Black is such a good whiskey for the price (it has some excellent single malts like Talisker in the mix). Although arabica beans get all the acclaim, robusta should not be overlooked. One of the reasons typical Italian espresso roasts are so darn tasty is because they are a blend of around 70% arabica with 30% robusta (give or take). The robusta has a much higher caffeine content and it responsible for that intense. almost burnt tire aroma. The arabica then smooths this out and offers some more nuanced notes.

In terms of cafes, all of the big names I've tried have horrible espresso. Starbucks is the worst. If you look at their espresso beans through the hopper you can see that they are jet black and very oily...this is too dark of a roast for espresso. It always tastes burnt, even if you ask for a long shot (more water). Even if a place has good beans and a very expensive machine, there is so much variance with the individual baristas because they are not properly trained. A good espresso is an art, and requires proper grinding, tamping, water temperature and amount. Sometimes you get a teaspoon amount of coffee that is as thick as molasses and tastes like burnt hair. Other times you get an overflowing cup of coffee-flavoured water...

I would suggest finding some local mom & pop hole in the wall places in your area, Italian bakeries, cafes, restaurants, etc. You can actually shoot the breeze with these people and they take pride in their work. These places often have a strong Christian/conservative/community feel and you won't find any LGBTQ+ flags around. If the coffee is good I'll just go in an have a quick espresso at the counter. Look for places frequented by older Italians or Europeans, as they tend to be quite picky. There is a Greek town close to me and I often enjoy traditional Greek coffee at several of the establishments there.

What beans do you prefer?

I am partial to a medium-dark roast. Too light is too acidic and watery, and too dark can be bitter (especially since I don't add sugar). Also, if using an automatic espresso machine that grinds the whole beans, very dark oily roasts will 'gum up' the machine.

Lavazza is great and their quality control is excellent. Based in Turin, northen Italy since 1895. I would recommend:
1) Gran Crema (7/10 intensity)
2) Crema e Gusto (slightly cheaper but just as good...more of a dark cocoa note)
3) Crema e Aroma (similar to Gran Crema)

Kimbo is another good coffee producer from Naples, since 1963. I would recommend:
1) Crema Intensa (6/10 roast, smooth, great crema, strong but not bitter)
2) Export Antica Tradizione (medium-dark roast, delicious, readily available)
3) Espresso Napolitano *also available in pods for nespresso style machines* (10 on the intensity scale, delicious, very similar to the export above)

Ionia is based in Sicily, since 1960. I would recommend their 'Special bar'. It's 70/30 arabica/robusta. Very strong but not bitter.

How do you usually drink coffee?

I drink my espresso black. Sometimes I will 'rinse' out the cup with a little bit of ouzo or an amaro (Italian herbal liquor). Espresso is always served with a small glass of water to rinse the palate. A sparkling water like San Pellegrino is also a nice treat occasionally.

What method of brewing do you prefer?

It's hard to beat the little stainless steel stove top maker ('cefetiera' in Italian). Quick, easy, economical, and fills your kitchen with a beautiful aroma. You won't get the crema with this method as there is not enough pressure to create this. But you will get a nice strong coffee.
I also have a little nespresso machine that makes espresso only (the small pods) and actually gives an excellent crema. This is good because it's easy to switch from different roasts or even decaf.
+1

You're going to shun me for saying I've been doing instant decaf for the past year or so. It did wean me off my coffee obsession though and I rarely drink coffee now.

I'd been trying to find the perfect cup of plain, black coffee that I can make consistently for years but I do feel better not having a ton of caffeine surging though my system all the time.

I think the most unique and memorable coffees I've had soak up the smells and oils of their environment, kind of like a bread starter. I have a nice burr mill and a french press for daily use, though I've had some incredible stuff from chemex and areopress. Getting good beans eventually became too expensive for my habit and I never really got into espresso, sadly.

Funny you should post this today. I've had espresso on my list for a long time and finally picked some up a few hours ago.

Edit: I enjoy scotch also, but mostly bourbon. I was sad to hear about JW going woke. For scotch I really like bowmore and glenmorangie (have you had the sherry cask?).
 
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Nate_Drake

Sparrow
I'm a big caffeine guy and I also no it's not good for me overall and throws off my energy big time. If you must consume coffee make sure you get organic coffee. It's way way better for you since I hear the normal beans are absolutely coated with chemical pesticides.
 
+1

You're going to shun me for saying I've been doing instant decaf for the past year or so. It did wean me off my coffee obsession though and I rarely drink coffee now.

I'd been trying to find the perfect cup of plain, black coffee that I can make consistently for years but I do feel better not having a ton of caffeine surging though my system all the time.

I think the most unique and memorable coffees I've had soak up the smells and oils of their environment, kind of like a bread starter. I have a nice burr mill and a french press for daily use, though I've had some incredible stuff from chemex and areopress. Getting good beans eventually became too expensive for my habit and I never really got into espresso, sadly.

Funny you should post this today. I've had espresso on my list for a long time and finally picked some up a few hours ago.

Edit: I enjoy scotch also, but mostly bourbon. I was sad to hear about JW going woke. For scotch I really like bowmore and glenmorangie (have you had the sherry cask?).
Let me add that despite my lengthy post, which might come across as very particular, I am not a "coffee snob" by any stretch -- I'll leave that to the 20-something, urban, hipster, reddit using fedora neck beard athiest types lol.

I also don't have to have one everyday. Hate feeling like I'm addicted to anything. Love Frank Seymon's quote in True Detective: "Never do anything out of hunger, not even eating"

So in that sense I won't shun you for instant decaf. To each their own.
What kind of espresso did you acquire today? What part of the country are you in?

I enjoy bourbon as well, but don't know too much about it. Buffalo Trace, Elijah Craig, Maker's Mark...that about the extent of my collection.
Whereas I have quite a few single malts, and tend to prefer to peaty scotch from the Islay region. Talisker being the exception -- I believe it's the Northermost distillery in Scotland, on the Isle of Skye. Haven't heard about the JW woke thing...seems more and more are bending the knee these days. Sad.

Glenmorangie is excellent. Found it similar to Dalwhinnie. Have not tried the sherry cask yet. Sounds like it would be excellent after dinner (being slightly sweeter?).
 

Cartographer

Pelican
Gold Member
Let me add that despite my lengthy post, which might come across as very particular, I am not a "coffee snob" by any stretch -- I'll leave that to the 20-something, urban, hipster, reddit using fedora neck beard athiest types lol.

I also don't have to have one everyday. Hate feeling like I'm addicted to anything. Love Frank Seymon's quote in True Detective: "Never do anything out of hunger, not even eating"

So in that sense I won't shun you for instant decaf. To each their own.
What kind of espresso did you acquire today? What part of the country are you in?

I enjoy bourbon as well, but don't know too much about it. Buffalo Trace, Elijah Craig, Maker's Mark...that about the extent of my collection.
Whereas I have quite a few single malts, and tend to prefer to peaty scotch from the Islay region. Talisker being the exception -- I believe it's the Northermost distillery in Scotland, on the Isle of Skye. Haven't heard about the JW woke thing...seems more and more are bending the knee these days. Sad.

Glenmorangie is excellent. Found it similar to Dalwhinnie. Have not tried the sherry cask yet. Sounds like it would be excellent after dinner (being slightly sweeter?).
Islay scotch is my favorite too. For bourbon I recommend eagle rare, bookers, and of course pappy van winkle. I've had some really good, vintage pappy that was kind of a transcendental experience. On the cheaper side I also like basil hayden and bulleit. I haven't tried Talisker but I'm going to look for it now. The sherry finish glen isn't too sweet, it's very well balanced.

I didn't get a snob feel from your post. I think I was but moderation, like you suggest, is something I'm learning with age is the real way to find pleasure in the things that most men these days make into vice.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Has anyone else tried doing Cold Brew? You do it more or less the same way except use cool water, put it somewhere cold, and let it brew for 12 hours or so. comes out very smooth and less acidic.

Decaf cold-brew is a great way to wake up in the summer.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Islay scotch is my favorite too. For bourbon I recommend eagle rare, bookers, and of course pappy van winkle. I've had some really good, vintage pappy that was kind of a transcendental experience. On the cheaper side I also like basil hayden and bulleit. I haven't tried Talisker but I'm going to look for it now. The sherry finish glen isn't too sweet, it's very well balanced.

I didn't get a snob feel from your post. I think I was but moderation, like you suggest, is something I'm learning with age is the real way to find pleasure in the things that most men these days make into vice.
ELIJAH CRAIG. Not to go all-caps on you, but that's by far my favorite bourbon in the 30-dollars-and-under range. Fantastic in cocktails (especially anything that's honey based), great to sip on its own, get a bottle before everyone finds out it's good and the price goes up. It's a very nice secret.

Wheated bourbons seem to be sort of controversial (they use wheat instead of rye in the mash bill). Maker's Mark is the main one everyone's heard of, I like how smooth it is, but it's overpriced. Larceny is a more affordable wheated bourbon, and if you're desperate...Rebel Yell. (I think Pappy Van Winkle is wheated?)

Bookers, good choice. But that one's cask strength (like, around 120 proof) and will knock you down. I usually don't go too far past "bonded" 100 proof strength when it comes to whiskeys.

(I could go on and on about whiskey, I especially love rye whiskeys. Scotch and Irish whiskeys I don't know as much about as I'd like, and these days my local Total Wine has some wild stuff like corn whiskey and wheat whiskey.)
 

Cartographer

Pelican
Gold Member
ELIJAH CRAIG. Not to go all-caps on you, but that's by far my favorite bourbon in the 30-dollars-and-under range. Fantastic in cocktails (especially anything that's honey based), great to sip on its own, get a bottle before everyone finds out it's good and the price goes up. It's a very nice secret.

Wheated bourbons seem to be sort of controversial (they use wheat instead of rye in the mash bill). Maker's Mark is the main one everyone's heard of, I like how smooth it is, but it's overpriced. Larceny is a more affordable wheated bourbon, and if you're desperate...Rebel Yell. (I think Pappy Van Winkle is wheated?)

Bookers, good choice. But that one's cask strength (like, around 120 proof) and will knock you down. I usually don't go too far past "bonded" 100 proof strength when it comes to whiskeys.

(I could go on and on about whiskey, I especially love rye whiskeys. Scotch and Irish whiskeys I don't know as much about as I'd like, and these days my local Total Wine has some wild stuff like corn whiskey and wheat whiskey.)
Elijah Craig is a very good bourbon. I love ryes as well, they are full of flavor and you can practice your Bogie on the bookstore girls. (@2:18 but watch the whole thing, get me?)

Little book is the booker's 120 proof. It burns your lips and makes them numb. Definitely not something you toss back like a cowboy in a saloon.

Think we can derail this even more by bringing up cigars? There's a box-rolled coffee flavored I love that'd go well with espresso or rye but I forget the name and brand.
 
Islay scotch is my favorite too. For bourbon I recommend eagle rare, bookers, and of course pappy van winkle. I've had some really good, vintage pappy that was kind of a transcendental experience. On the cheaper side I also like basil hayden and bulleit. I haven't tried Talisker but I'm going to look for it now. The sherry finish glen isn't too sweet, it's very well balanced.

I didn't get a snob feel from your post. I think I was but moderation, like you suggest, is something I'm learning with age is the real way to find pleasure in the things that most men these days make into vice.
Thanks for the recommendations. Might have to try Pappy Van Winkle first for the name alone lol. Talisker is my favourite all-round single malt. Peaty but not too smoky, peppery, smooth, very distinctive taste. And of course the bottle and packaging are quite beautiful. I would suggest just a few drops of water to open it up slightly.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Elijah Craig is a very good bourbon. I love ryes as well, they are full of flavor and you can practice your Bogie on the bookstore girls. (@2:18 but watch the whole thing, get me?)

Little book is the booker's 120 proof. It burns your lips and makes them numb. Definitely not something you toss back like a cowboy in a saloon.

Think we can derail this even more by bringing up cigars? There's a box-rolled coffee flavored I love that'd go well with espresso or rye but I forget the name and brand.
I love Sancho Panza maduro box-pressed. My favorite by a mile, and not too big for a casual cigar smoker like me.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
What beans do you prefer?
Will say something here, and maybe another day answer some more of Roosh's coffee questions.

Light roast from Nicaragua, Columbia, Brazil, Guatemala or Honduras. Not sure if it is just habit or if I should be more adventurous with it. May say more another day about how I prepare drink it. Can also do darker roasts, but that is my most frequently consumed.
I just got some fresh beans of Jamaican Blue Mountain directly from Jamaica. A Jamaican friend of mine says that it is one of the best coffee ever. I need to go and get a keurig and brew some and see what the hype is about.
I'm very keen to try that. Almost ordered a small quantity but then I hesitated as I was going through the city where it is sold. Then, covid ruined the trip to that city, so I have yet to try it.

I met someone in the coffee business who said it is mostly hype. I remembered that it comes in small barrels (the green beans) unlike all other coffees which come in hessian bags.

Anyway, the stuff costs triple or five times what other coffees do, so that makes it the Rolex or Rolls Royce of coffees. I still look forward to trying it one day, maintain both an open and skeptical mind about it.

Btw can you say anything about how it tasted?
Although arabica beans get all the acclaim, robusta should not be overlooked. One of the reasons typical Italian espresso roasts are so darn tasty is because they are a blend of around 70% arabica with 30% robusta (give or take). The robusta has a much higher caffeine content and it responsible for that intense. almost burnt tire aroma. The arabica then smooths this out and offers some more nuanced notes.
Yes, Robusta should not be overlooked. I bought some pure Robusta not long ago. Maybe there is an economic reason why Arabica is promoted so much more. Robusta does have a certain taste and fragrance of its own, maybe lightly like burned tyre.

Still, prefer Arabica and light roasts as I like to drink it freely and enjoy the taste and otherwise there is a point where overdose and addictive effects are reached.

Single origin is something else I believe is hype. The hipsters were into it. I tried single origin but could never get into the taste. There is a reason why a roaster may seperately roast five different beans each for their required length of time then blend them. But then the hipsters decide that that is meaningless and why not just drink single origin. It brings you closer to the farmers, think of them (you racist). Possibly another variation of liberals and progressives defining increasingly ugly things as art.
 
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