The decline of rock music

integrated

Sparrow
I feel like music really took a hit once it moved away from being more physical (CDs, tapes, vinyl, etc.)

Back in the early 2000s, music was scarcer. You had to put effort into acquiring it, either by waiting long periods of time on a dial-up connection for it to download or by spending a fair bit of money to get a physical copy of an album.

The creation of YouTube, Spotify, etc. has been quite amazing in terms of making large amounts of music instantly accessible. Music you might not have been able to encounter in previous eras is readily available. And that's great. But it also means that music isn't valued as much any more because of its reduced scarcity. I remember when it was so exciting to get hold of a physical album and thumb through the booklet. Nowadays, there's a huge disincentive to even buy a CD with music being so easily available online.

Many artists are forced to churn out singles at an unreasonably fast pace in order to stay relevant, keep fans happy, and not be forgotten in an era of instant gratification - a quantity over quality mentality. Bands seemed to be more album-oriented about 10-15 years ago. When you heard about your favourite band working on an album, there was so much anticipation because you knew you'd have to wait and it would be harder to get hold of.
 
View attachment 29224

Even if the Doors were funded by the CIA, their music is far better than 90% of modern music. I never believed in the whole "subliminal Satanic message" thing, and still don't, to be honest.
Yes, but the Luciferians that control the entertainment industry DO believe in it. Again, I also thought it was really weird. (Like Ozzy Osborne once quipped: " It takes me six months just to write the bloody song, then you want me write it backwards?!!". He also has a song called "Mr Crowley". Hmmm...) However, once you look into Crowley, you understand that this is a "thing" in the occult. And, some of the messaging just can't be random coincidence. (For example, "Strawberry Fields Forever" has a backwards passage which clearly says, "We'll sing it man. We'll be reversed...". Why did they put that in?)

I would agree that a lot of the Doors stuff is more musically interesting than the dumbed down shit we get now, where it is all rhythms, there are barely any chords or melodies and the lyrics are at about a grade two level. However, if you compare their music to what was going on in the '30's/'40's in popular music, with big bands playing complex arrangements of well-written material with interesting, mostly positive lyrics and sophisticated melodies live off the floor, it's just as much of a downward trend, if not more so.
 
Last edited:
Good comments, and funnily enough i just read Wierd Scenes in Laurel Canyon last week.
Great! What are your thoughts on it? I would also recommend checking out Mike Williams. He goes by the handle "Sage of Quay" and has done a lot of great work examining the "Paul Is Dead" thing and the corrupt and subversive nature of the music industry in general. He is also very based when it comes to the COVID hoax, the deep state, etc.

FYI: McGowan also wrote a great book which theorizes that many famous serial killers were basically MK-Ultra victims.
 
Last edited:

Oberrheiner

Pelican
I would like to warn about monodeterminisms, and yet when I see my answer .. :)
Essentially the concept of 'serious' or 'art' music is an aberration, and it is a product of very specific times and places, which do not really exist elsewhere - similar to the wider art world, the Western forms consumed themselves because they pointed toward individualism and individualization, instead of eternity and community
Serious art is simply whiteness, allowed to reach its natural extreme.

Like when you see doctors conducting dissections with the utmost dedication bordering on autistic obsession - if you don't have the brain for it yourself you will never be able to comprehend this state of mind, all you will see is a man toying with cutting a cadaver's flesh and think he's mad, when it's only you who's stupid :)
And that's a general you, like you said yourself not everybody is cut for hard science, and most are not indeed.

Whether that's good or bad is secondary imho.
Some of us simply are like that, and the question is more whether there still a place for us on this earth or not.
this is how Bach and Beethoven lead to Stockhausen and Cage
Two world wars are what separate them - when the white man was basically made to commit suicide.
What came after that was mostly the gasp of the dying - fortunately for us with a few swan songs in-between.

Although to be honest nobody listens to stockhauser or cage seriously, they're only interesting (and only barely so but that's personal judgement now) as academic experiments - you've heard them once and then never again.
 
I feel like music really took a hit once it moved away from being more physical (CDs, tapes, vinyl, etc.)

Back in the early 2000s, music was scarcer. You had to put effort into acquiring it, either by waiting long periods of time on a dial-up connection for it to download or by spending a fair bit of money to get a physical copy of an album.

The creation of YouTube, Spotify, etc. has been quite amazing in terms of making large amounts of music instantly accessible. Music you might not have been able to encounter in previous eras is readily available. And that's great. But it also means that music isn't valued as much any more because of its reduced scarcity. I remember when it was so exciting to get hold of a physical album and thumb through the booklet. Nowadays, there's a huge disincentive to even buy a CD with music being so easily available online.

Many artists are forced to churn out singles at an unreasonably fast pace in order to stay relevant, keep fans happy, and not be forgotten in an era of instant gratification - a quantity over quality mentality. Bands seemed to be more album-oriented about 10-15 years ago. When you heard about your favourite band working on an album, there was so much anticipation because you knew you'd have to wait and it would be harder to get hold of.
Totally! I remember waiting in line for my local record store to open to get a new CD by my favorite bands.

These platforms have basically destroyed music, in my opinion. I think it really started when they began making computers with built-in CD burners. This meant that people could easily copy disks repeatedly with no loss in quality. (We were able to dub tapes before that but after two or three generations, the hiss was too bad.).

And now, with COVID basically destroying the live venues, the music industry is pretty much dead. Trust me. In my area, one of the best piano/keyboard guys for miles around just took a job as a Wal-Mart greeter. Sadly, it's pretty much over, at least for small- and even medium-sized artists.
 

ilostabet

Pelican
I would like to warn about monodeterminisms, and yet when I see my answer .. :)

Serious art is simply whiteness, allowed to reach its natural extreme.

Like when you see doctors conducting dissections with the utmost dedication bordering on autistic obsession - if you don't have the brain for it yourself you will never be able to comprehend this state of mind, all you will see is a man toying with cutting a cadaver's flesh and think he's mad, when it's only you who's stupid :)
And that's a general you, like you said yourself not everybody is cut for hard science, and most are not indeed.

Whether that's good or bad is secondary imho.
Some of us simply are like that, and the question is more whether there still a place for us on this earth or not.

Two world wars are what separate them - when the white man was basically made to commit suicide.
What came after that was mostly the gasp of the dying - fortunately for us with a few swan songs in-between.

Although to be honest nobody listens to stockhauser or cage seriously, they're only interesting (and only barely so but that's personal judgement now) as academic experiments - you've heard them once and then never again.

You have a very myopic view of everything (including, but not limited to, science, race and art), because you think modernity is progress, not degradation (and furthermore you seem to think it started much later than it did).

Hopefully Guenon can cure it. Not holding my breath, but it would be nice to see your awareness ascend.

Edit: I understand how arrogant this can sound. But Truth has to be stated, not argued.
 
I would like to warn about monodeterminisms, and yet when I see my answer .. :)

Serious art is simply whiteness, allowed to reach its natural extreme.

Like when you see doctors conducting dissections with the utmost dedication bordering on autistic obsession - if you don't have the brain for it yourself you will never be able to comprehend this state of mind, all you will see is a man toying with cutting a cadaver's flesh and think he's mad, when it's only you who's stupid :)
And that's a general you, like you said yourself not everybody is cut for hard science, and most are not indeed.

Whether that's good or bad is secondary imho.
Some of us simply are like that, and the question is more whether there still a place for us on this earth or not.

Two world wars are what separate them - when the white man was basically made to commit suicide.
What came after that was mostly the gasp of the dying - fortunately for us with a few swan songs in-between.

Although to be honest nobody listens to stockhauser or cage seriously, they're only interesting (and only barely so but that's personal judgement now) as academic experiments - you've heard them once and then never again.
Not sure what you mean by the whiteness comment but would agree with pretty much everything else.

The whole point of "modernism" was that they wanted to get away from the "restrictiveness" of classical music theory, which is based on the physics of sound, so they created artificial structures like the 12-tone row and guess what? It sounded like SHIT.
 
That was the last concert that I ever attended. Queensryche opened up for them. In Dallas. Funny, I remember everyone just messing around sitting and rolling up whole bags of joints while Queensryche was on stage, the real show was Tallimalicha.
I also saw them on the "Justice" tour, opening for Aerosmith. They were in their prime then. About half the audience, including me and my friends, left after their set.
 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
You have a very myopic view of everything (including, but not limited to, science, race and art), because you think modernity is progress, not degradation
I think it's both.
For instance technical progress is great when I make it, and it's catastrophic when just anybody with enough money can access it - without understanding it and mastering it, this power will only corrupt them.

When it started depends on how you define it, of course.
Before christianity europe was mostly tribal, so one could argue that was the start of modern society - yet you reject one and not the other ?

Hope you don't mind my light trolling against your arrogance ;)
 

ilostabet

Pelican
When it started depends on how you define it, of course.
Before christianity europe was mostly tribal, so one could argue that was the start of modern society - yet you reject one and not the other ?

Of course it depends how you define it. The question is if the definition is accurate. The only accurate point is the end of the Middle Ages.

Europe was tribal throughout Christendom (Middle Ages). Modernity broke that, not Christianity. But I doubt you understand it, because moderns are pretty much incapable of even understanding the Middle Ages. Most still believe it was an age of darkness. It was the opposite. Darkness is what set afterward, of all kinds. One of the best examples is that they think the art of the Renaissance is superior to that of the Medieval Age, when it is only superior in one aspect, which is the least important: technique.

The technical progress, which is really the only thing superior about modern civilization, is directly correlated to spiritual, societal, moral and symbolic degradation. In every other respect, which in traditional societies are higher than mere matter and material progress, modernity is inferior - not just inferior, utterly lacking. And this material progress would not be possible without the degradation of these other spheres, which every tradition regards as more important, and to which the material is to be subjugated.

The reason you (and many others, including Christians) don't understand it is because materialism itself poisons the mind to be unable to even recognize, much less value, these other, qualitative spheres, and only the quantitative (that is, industry) is regarded, not just as valuable, but as existing.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Totally! I remember waiting in line for my local record store to open to get a new CD by my favorite bands.

These platforms have basically destroyed music, in my opinion. I think it really started when they began making computers with built-in CD burners. This meant that people could easily copy disks repeatedly with no loss in quality. (We were able to dub tapes before that but after two or three generations, the hiss was too bad.).

And now, with COVID basically destroying the live venues, the music industry is pretty much dead. Trust me. In my area, one of the best piano/keyboard guys for miles around just took a job as a Wal-Mart greeter. Sadly, it's pretty much over, at least for small- and even medium-sized artists.

I disagree, the digital platforms might have affected the "romance" of the old school music fan experience, but they've also opened vast, nearly unrestricted access to music that was previously unreachable. Overall it's a much better tradeoff. What I've learned from having access to high-speed internet is that most of the stellar music was done by artists who had little or no commercial success.

------------------------------------------​

The problem with modern music is that most of the good music has already been done and written. 4-5 guys with guitars, bass, drum and sometime keyboards have been playing for over 5 decades now. It's played out, 95% of the good pop music has already been written. That's why we're circling back with musical genres like retro synth coming back, or why the generic techno you hear at your average nightclub is pretty much the same that was played in 1995.

The other big problem is that young people today grow up in a world strewn with cultural poverty and lack of real diversity, going to malls that look the same everywhere, wearing the same clothes and eating the same fast food, growing up in a lowest common denominator globohomo capitalist culture. The product that comes out of this morass is therefore objectively poorer. It's also the reason there have been no more truly great painters or sculptors since the middle of the 20th century.

The third reason is that the musical industry has the same business model as McDonald's: their goal is to drive the average taste in music to the lowest levels so that they can fully own the product, pushing artists on the basis of celebrity (which they fully create) as opposed to talent, which they can't completely own and control because it's organic. McD uses the same approach, their business model is based on getting kids hooked into their products (happy meals) so that when they grow up they will crave McD as comfort food and settle for their industrial-grade product instead of appreciating higher quality products from small local restaurants.
 

stugatz

Pelican
I disagree, the digital platforms might have affected the "romance" of the old school music fan experience, but they've also opened vast, nearly unrestricted access to music that was previously unreachable. Overall it's a much better tradeoff. What I've learned from having access to high-speed internet is that most of the stellar music was done by artists who had little or no commercial success.
I remember back in 2003 or so, I would spend much of my free time surfing Amazon and Allmusic.com, looking at the full discographies of bands I really wanted to hear all of. I looked at my birthday and Christmas as a great time to expand my collection - and soon after, I began binge buying used-but-not abused CDs on Amazon for almost nothing. Slipping the art and booklet into a brand new jewel case felt great - it was like I was almost stealing it. I had well over 100 CDs before the end of high school. The joy that gave me is really hard to put into words.

These days (through a combination of YouTube, library borrows, buying MP3s, and having friends loan me music) I have thousands upon thousands of albums that I need to hash out a plan to listen to. (I've actually given up all political podcasts and YouTubes for Lent, so I can focus nearly exclusively on music and fall in love with it again.)

I miss that feeling of wonder I had in high school - but having all of that endless access to music is far superior if I just listen to it all in a timely manner. This is the same trap people fall into when they have a thousand movies available to watch on Netflix - you get so many options, your brain freezes and you just end up choosing nothing, or something you've already seen.

The best thing about listening to a band's full discography is that you often end up hearing an album that was poorly received, but you like a lot yourself. You can then get it for almost nothing in mint condition. One I really was happy to give a shot was Jethro Tull - all of their stuff after the 1970s was definitely a major step down in quality, but I can name at least two to three albums from then that I'd call very good.
 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
But I doubt you understand it, because moderns are pretty much incapable of even understanding the Middle Ages. Most still believe it was an age of darkness. It was the opposite. Darkness is what set afterward, of all kinds. One of the best examples is that they think the art of the Renaissance is superior to that of the Medieval Age, when it is only superior in one aspect, which is the least important: technique.
A bold claim of course, but I didn't expect less of you :)

However a couple of examples would be welcome, because the first two things which come to my mind (infant mortality and literacy rates) were obviously better in recent times than they were in the middle ages.
Which doesn't mean I'm right and you're not of course, just that some counter-arguments would be required imho.
 
the first two things which come to my mind (infant mortality and literacy rates) were obviously better in recent times than they were in the middle ages.
I beg to differ.

1) "Mortality rate" ? Even assuming the claim is true (and according to anti-vaccine activists those claims are self-serving and exaggerated), thanks to abortion Whites are below the replacement rate today, so it's a small gain on one side and a huge loss on the other.

2) Literacy ? The number of printed books has exploded, sure, but so has the number of functional illiterates and the average intellectual level of best-sellers is staggeringly low, even compared to a few centuries ago.

Everybody reads, but everybody reads mostly garbage. Most of the "reading" today is really a marketing process anyway - people buy a book not because they have a strong reason to read it (they often don't read or skim through), but because it's well-marketed, because the seller was nice, because they needed to buy a gift and were unsure what to buy, etc.

Also, several analysts predict that in the near future the Internet will make most of today's printed press disappear. In France which used to be a country with a tradition of professional, "home-made" booksellers who could literally sell books by the kilo, those booksellers are quickly becoming extinct and gobbled up by Amazon.

You might want to read The Bugbear of Literacy, by perennialist author A. K. Coomaraswamy (it's a few dozens of pages at https://archive.org/details/in.gov.ignca.7230/page/n39/mode/2up)
 
Last edited:
Great! What are your thoughts on it? I would also recommend checking out Mike Williams. He goes by the handle "Sage of Quay" and has done a lot of great work examining the "Paul Is Dead" thing and the corrupt and subversive nature of the music industry in general. He is also very based when it comes to the COVID hoax, the deep state, etc.

FYI: McGowan also wrote a great book which theorizes that many famous serial killers were basically MK-Ultra victims.
Really interesting, I knew Jim Morrison was from a military family but was amazed at how many others there were. Even if not an intentional human conspiracy I have no doubt that Satan can arrange these things and we just perceive the surface. I have for quite sometime viewed the whole 60's boomer counter culture as a deliberate subversion of a great Christian nation and civilization. As a New Zealander I have long viewed my country as a cultural satellite of the USA, you can see this clearly in the indigenous maori aping american rappers. I will check out the youtuber you mention, sounds like my sort of thing.
 
Really interesting, I knew Jim Morrison was from a military family but was amazed at how many others there were. Even if not an intentional human conspiracy I have no doubt that Satan can arrange these things and we just perceive the surface. I have for quite sometime viewed the whole 60's boomer counter culture as a deliberate subversion of a great Christian nation and civilization. As a New Zealander I have long viewed my country as a cultural satellite of the USA, you can see this clearly in the indigenous maori aping american rappers. I will check out the youtuber you mention, sounds like my sort of thing.
I knew Jim Morrison was from a military family but was amazed at how many others there were

Yeah, Oliver Stone even mentioned this in "The Doors" but I NEVER knew it was the Gulf Of Tonkin guy! That's a pretty big thing that Stone and everyone else who's ever written about Jim, including his bandmate John Densmore, neglected to mention. And the way they just all happened to end up in the canyon, where all these new venues were waiting for them and a secret military base full of recording and film gear was right there...

Satan can arrange these things

He sure can!

the whole 60's boomer counter culture as a deliberate subversion of a great Christian nation and civilization.

Totally. They were also the most heavily propagandized group of people in history, with TV in full force for their entire lives. I really think the post-war generation inherited the high-water point of Western civilization and it all went downhill on their watch.

I will check out the youtuber you mention, sounds like my sort of thing.

Here's the thing on the Beatles not writing their own music, in case you and/or anyone else reading this has four and a half hours of free time. (I think it's worth it if you are interested in this sort of thing.)

 
I disagree, the digital platforms might have affected the "romance" of the old school music fan experience, but they've also opened vast, nearly unrestricted access to music that was previously unreachable. Overall it's a much better tradeoff. What I've learned from having access to high-speed internet is that most of the stellar music was done by artists who had little or no commercial success.

------------------------------------------​

The problem with modern music is that most of the good music has already been done and written. 4-5 guys with guitars, bass, drum and sometime keyboards have been playing for over 5 decades now. It's played out, 95% of the good pop music has already been written. That's why we're circling back with musical genres like retro synth coming back, or why the generic techno you hear at your average nightclub is pretty much the same that was played in 1995.

The other big problem is that young people today grow up in a world strewn with cultural poverty and lack of real diversity, going to malls that look the same everywhere, wearing the same clothes and eating the same fast food, growing up in a lowest common denominator globohomo capitalist culture. The product that comes out of this morass is therefore objectively poorer. It's also the reason there have been no more truly great painters or sculptors since the middle of the 20th century.

The third reason is that the musical industry has the same business model as McDonald's: their goal is to drive the average taste in music to the lowest levels so that they can fully own the product, pushing artists on the basis of celebrity (which they fully create) as opposed to talent, which they can't completely own and control because it's organic. McD uses the same approach, their business model is based on getting kids hooked into their products (happy meals) so that when they grow up they will crave McD as comfort food and settle for their industrial-grade product instead of appreciating higher quality products from small local restaurants.
Overall it's a much better tradeoff...

Maybe for people like you, but not for the guys that actually CREATED the music, like me and my buddy at Wal-mart.

Other than that, I would say your analysis is spot on.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Great! What are your thoughts on it? I would also recommend checking out Mike Williams. He goes by the handle "Sage of Quay" and has done a lot of great work examining the "Paul Is Dead" thing and the corrupt and subversive nature of the music industry in general. He is also very based when it comes to the COVID hoax, the deep state, etc.

FYI: McGowan also wrote a great book which theorizes that many famous serial killers were basically MK-Ultra victims.

The best sources other than McGowan on the subject of pop music as a societal control tool are Joe Atwill, Jan Irvin*, Jay Dyer and Hans Utter. One seminal work is Atwill's research on the Grateful Dead, Maufacturing the Deadhead:


BTW TorontoSucks, the Beatles inspiration for their name was the Egyptian scarab, it is loaded in occult symbolism rooted in a spell to change society. Very similar to your avatar of Kek, also a symbol rooted in ancient Egyptian occultism casting a transformative spell on society...

Hans Utter has done a lot of very compelling work on symbolism and the deeper aspects of music as a social control tool, here's a good sample:


There is a good deal of recycling on 60s drug culture today, with the ayahuasca millennial cultural phenomenon that's tied in with yoga, tech, DMT etc.

There is as well a techno-tribal, transhumanist strain that is dominating silicon valley culture. Steve Outtrim, a software entrepreneur from NZ and original burner did some great research on that field, also with Jan Irvin:



*Jan Irvin is kind of a weirdo/dork who has done a lot of great work and research but veered off to the dark side a couple of years ago. His viewership collapsed after that.
 
Top