The decline of rock music

Rock music was always a business. Only delusional pathetic hippies and other countercultural types think it was about rebelling against the man. It was pre-packaged and carefully selected since day one.


There was a lot of good music being produced, regardless of the message the bands had. Generally, there were musical standards until punk rock became mainstream. I always hated people like Bob Dylan who had limited musical talent and their lyrics were overrated junkie babbling or the Rolling Stones, which had some cool songs but are overrated fake bad boys (Brian Jones was the only really talented member). Never got into the Sex Pistols or Nirvana. Too sloppy and mediocre. Always liked my music with some degree of quality, instrumental and vocal wise. Never cared too much about lyrics,


Also, a lot of overrated acts from the 60s and 70s kept being shoved down out throats just because they were friends with Jann Werner, founder of the R&R hall of fame and leftist Rolling Stone magazine. Even that weird obsession with the Beatles (i'm a fan but to think they can do no wrong is plain ridiculous) and especially John Lennon, which is still promoted as the boomer Jesus who sacrificed for "world peace" it's because Werner is friends with Yoko Ono since the early 70s. Yes, payola and cronyism never went away in rock music.


But in the other hand, at the same time Zionist Zimmerman was whining away, you had talented people like the Beatles , Moody Blues, Yardbirds, Kinks, Small Faces, surf and semipro garage bands, and even the soul singers from Motown and Stax in the early to mid 60s producing great, timeless music.

People think Dylan, Joan Baez and some other leftist folk singers were the only ones from the sixties folk scene, but the scene was bigger and had much more talented people than those two. One of the great advantages of internet is that we caen discover good old rock music that wasn't big or was only known locally on certain countries or regions. There were a lot of bands and artists who never made it big internationally but were much more talented than a lot of overrated "big" bands.


A lot of rock fans are lazy and just wanna hear the same old tired songs in their so called classic rock stations. I think that's one of the reasons of rock music's decline. In the other had, i pretty much agree with other posters, that rock lost it's balls in the 90s, Kurt Cobain was a huge overrated woke soyboy who was promoted as a messiah for social justice when he died, while the remaining, more talented and more masculine grunge bands got kinda of ignored. They also sang about depression but in a way more relatable way to your average Joe. Also, most British rock since the 90s has also been devoid of any balls. Don't get me started on how much i despise Radiohead, for me they're the ultimate soyboy band.
Mick Jagger has a freaking amount of talent. That guy is a good singer and just knows how to perform, and the Stones just have good songs.
Do you know that movie with Oskar Isaak (?) playing a folk singer, I think, Justin Timberlake is in it too?
Townes van Zandt and Frank Zappa are of course the real deal.
 

stugatz

Pelican
A lot of rock fans are lazy and just wanna hear the same old tired songs in their so called classic rock stations. I think that's one of the reasons of rock music's decline. In the other had, i pretty much agree with other posters, that rock lost it's balls in the 90s, Kurt Cobain was a huge overrated woke soyboy who was promoted as a messiah for social justice when he died, while the remaining, more talented and more masculine grunge bands got kinda of ignored. They also sang about depression but in a way more relatable way to your average Joe. Also, most British rock since the 90s has also been devoid of any balls. Don't get me started on how much i despise Radiohead, for me they're the ultimate soyboy band.
Which ones would you name? I consider myself a huge grunge fan, although the definition for that genre is kind of vague. (Usually Green River and Mudhoney are the "first wave" grunge bands that people name as being prominent before Nirvana. I'd also add the Melvins, Mother Love Bone, and early Soundgarden to that list. Sometimes general alternative rock bands like Jane's Addiction and Blind Melon get lumped in, which I don't agree with.)

I do like Nirvana - but like is about as strong as it gets, Dave Grohl's Foo Fighters are so much more consistent. I particularly love Alice in Chains, the Melvins, and any band connected to Chris Cornell. (Pearl Jam I also have a huge soft spot for and they're incredible live, but I admit they're very overbearing and take themselves way too damn seriously - which is almost the opposite of the music I often tend to like, so search me as to why I'm a fan and they click with me.)

Are you an Oasis or Blur fan when it comes to Brit rock? I've actually gotten into long arguments about how much better Blur is than Oasis, but that's not worth talking about length.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Young people read less books, so their way of articulating themselves is just sad and less kids learn to play instruments; they don't have any patience to learn something valuable, just staring into their phones all day long. And therefore we get the music, we get.
Ugh, that irritating drum machine that we hear on just about every pop song nowadays just makes me want to scream. And it sounds like it's always the same drum machine tone, too. Are these songs popular just because they're heard a lot? I remember complaning about a Rihanna song in mid-2011, and getting told "the average person doesn't assess for quality - they just follow trends, don't overanalyze their taste any more than that". That must be how garbage like Lizzo even gets airtime.

Ever gone to a karaoke bar and heard one low-effort cover after another, where the people haven't even bothered to learn the words or know when they come in? It seems like consuming music is now so low effort it's become another artform. People forget songs they heard less than a year ago.
 
Ugh, that irritating drum machine that we hear on just about every pop song nowadays just makes me want to scream. And it sounds like it's always the same drum machine tone, too. Are these songs popular just because they're heard a lot? I remember complaning about a Rihanna song in mid-2011, and getting told "the average person doesn't assess for quality - they just follow trends, don't overanalyze their taste any more than that". That must be how garbage like Lizzo even gets airtime.

Ever gone to a karaoke bar and heard one low-effort cover after another, where the people haven't even bothered to learn the words or know when they come in? It seems like consuming music is now so low effort it's become another artform. People forget songs they heard less than a year ago.
If you think about, what MTV and VH1 showed in, let's say, the year 1995 and you compare it to the stuff we get today, you think, that mainstream entertainment back then was highly intellectual. Nowadays you have Cardi B and so on, the music is just primitive and so are the videos. In the 90s and early 2000s they actually made good music videos.
It is a mirror of society. And Rock music, because you need to learn playing an instrument and have a certain knowledge about music, which takes patience and hard work, is dead, because people nowadays are lazy dummies, to a higher percentage than 60, 40, 30 years ago.
 

stugatz

Pelican
The funniest thing is that I remember thinking the early 2000s was just uninspired and lame - we had a lot of grunge clones like Puddle of Mudd and Seether and Nickelback. And a lot of that loud rap-leaning nu-metal like Korn, Limp Bizkit, and Kid Rock. (Some nu-metal wasn't trash, though...System of a Down and the Deftones always put out impressive enough stuff, even if it isn't stuff I'd rush out to buy.)

I look back on that decade very fondly now in comparison, and even caught myself singing along to this this other day, when I used to make fun of it.

 
Limp Bizkit and Korn had some catchy songs and the videos were good. Even Kid Rock videos are high art to the stuff you get to see nowadays. Today they give you shitty music and don't even bother to package it nice. I did it all for the Nookie, the Nookie, the Nookie, that is a good song...or think about that Buddy Holly video by Weezer, back then you actually liked to watch music videos.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Limp Bizkit is so bad, but they're bad in a way where you're having fun while you listen to it. (I mean, who hears "Rollin'" and doesn't get a smile on their face? It's just so confidently dumb you can't help it.)

I still am mystified by why Nickelback being the worst band ever is some kind of meme. Yeah, they're mediocre post-grunge and recycle their own melodies, but I never found them excruciating, just bad in kind of a forgettable and average way. I think people are just saying they're awful because everyone else says so.

I unironically like the song "Rock Star".
 
These are actually very good bands. They have good songs and they can perform very well. Are there better bands? Yes. But mediocre? Green Day is the worst band ever, that had any a success. These guys are such fake punks, but they had that one cool video in a mental asylum.

On another note, do you know that song "Music sounds better with you" with these guys in silver and that boy building a toy-plane? When I hear this song, i always have to think about that song "Hey, what's wrong with you" by Phats & Small. Lord, back then you got some good entertaining music videos.
 

stugatz

Pelican
These are actually very good bands. They have good songs and they can perform very well. Are there better bands? Yes. But mediocre? Green Day is the worst band ever, that had any a success. These guys are such fake punks, but they had that one cool video in a mental asylum.

On another note, do you know that song "Music sounds better with you" with these guys in silver and that boy building a toy-plane? When I hear this song, i always have to think about that song "Hey, what's wrong with you" by Phats & Small. Lord, back then you got some good entertaining music videos.
I would disagree there, I do like me some Green Day, I had a phase in high school where I really was into them. But I definitely listened to them less when I found real punk like Crass and Fugazi and the Stiff Little Fingers. (The Clash probably count, they’re just ambitious to the point where I almost consider them a prog band. Ever heard that 150 minute album Sandinista? It just goes on FOREVER, and they almost seem to be trying to make songs in every available genre.)

American Idiot was a pretty respectable concept album, if a little beyond what they could do, and it eventually becoming an actual musical was just ridiculous. I never listened to much after it (they’ve since come out with one more concept album and regular albums nobody really cared about). The 1990s was their best decade easily. Even though they didn't come out with anything that was as well thought out or consistent as American Idiot, they actually came across as pretty edgy, and had this almost comedic "meh who cares" air about them that was probably irresistible to Gen Xers. That cover to their album Dookie was detailed and hilarious.

They’re gateway punk...if that’s a genre. (Or diet punk?) Although that “Time of Your Life” song is now overplayed at graduations to the point where they’re probably hated by a lot of zoomers by default. I've come to hate the song myself.
 
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BLMeToo

Sparrow
I think the advancement of technology and things like GarageBand basically killed rock. Guitars, drums, and actual instruments are kinda unavailable to the working classes, but it's way easier to produce a beat and rap or whatever. Plus, it's easier to mass produce hip hop and pop and tour those acts, since they don't need instruments.

And it's way easier to produce viable, sellable product with hip hop and pop than with rock. With a rock band, they have to at least be able to play instruments. With rap, you can get a kid like Lil Nas X who made one song and instantly became a global star (globalhomo agenda notwithstanding).

But I think for kids nowadays, rap is the new rock. Rock has been dead for a while. Sure, there's stuff being produced, but for the younger generations nowadays, rock is the genre of "white" privilege.
 

Bitter End

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I was listening to Limp Bizkit during the first lockdown for some reason. I found their last album not as bad, the soy ballads excluded. Now that they are not everywhere there is more of a nostalgic feel to them. I did a bit of research and found out that for their breakthrough of the song "Counterfeit" they might have gotten a bit of (((help))). A man called Jeff Kwantinetz advised them to literally pay for their own airtime and then things took off. Later Korn discovered them etc... Apparently the same guy was helping a lot of other artists too. No surprises there. Some bad things we have pushed down our throats daily but over time they feel like a real part of our past.

I do believe that the best mainstream music happened in the 90s where soft rock was all over the radio. Acts like "Cardigans", "Cranberries", a bit of that cute Swedish reggae stuff "Ace of Base". I am sure it was more degenerate behind the scenes, but it was such a pleasant time in any car, bus, supermarket or cafe, listening to such music. Especially coming from a socialist state that was slowly opening up to Western influence.
 

Mountaineer

Pelican
Gold Member
Some bad things we have pushed down our throats daily but over time they feel like a real part of our past.

I do believe that the best mainstream music happened in the 90s where soft rock was all over the radio. Acts like "Cardigans", "Cranberries", a bit of that cute Swedish reggae stuff "Ace of Base". I am sure it was more degenerate behind the scenes, but it was such a pleasant time in any car, bus, supermarket or cafe, listening to such music. Especially coming from a socialist state that was slowly opening up to Western influence.
You summed up perfectly how I look back at that time now after all retrospection.
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
Thanks for bringing up Limp Bizkit/Korn, as the late 90's was my prime and everyone remembers their music (42 now)

Coincidentally that's when rock died.

Millenial rock music collectively is throw up IMO, when the year started with a 2

Todays music/culture is just a rip off of our 90s culture, they don't have their own

If you walk through high schools today you see the kids of color sagging pants throwing out worse hip hop beats than 90s, and white kids wearing Nirvana/Sublime shirts and some holding skateboards, as if a 90s kid would not look out of place at all. Imagine the difference between 60s and 1990s
 

WhiteWolf

Robin
I'm 40 and been listening to punk/metal/rock since i was 10 y/old. I loved going to shows in the 90's. Rock is indeed dead, i barely listen to anything produced after 2000. I do like a few new bands like: Tame Impala and Still Corners.
Bands i listened to most in my younger years: Jimi Hendrix experience, Pantera, Lynard Skynerd, Suicidal Tendencies, RHCP, John Frusciante, Cro-Mags, Down, Skrewdriver, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Carnivor, Type O Negative, and a lot of british oi!/skinhead music from the 80's.
Modern music is worse than AIDS.
I also love oldskool pop music like, ...Kate Bush, Mazzy Star, Bob Marley etc.
Society has turned to shit and modern music is a reflection of that. Music should be art that makes you feel good inside. Otherwise its not worth listening to. I never understood electric dj music either, it just sounds like computer noise to me.
 
If you are a true follower of Christ, you should avoid almost all forms of rock music.
I understand nowadays there are a few christian rock bands that worship God and glorify him but they are a tiny minority.
Over 99% of secular music (all sub genres) is satanic. Most covertly, and some quiet openly so.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Christian rock is super cringe for the most part (there's a reason why Creed and Collective Soul are the only really prominent ones anyone can name - and they're the butt of constant jokes). Christian music can be done if it's something like folk or singer-songwriter, but I usually like to just go with full bore classical music and hymns, those don't have to strain to be "cool" to sell albums.

The spirit of rock music, in general, was to be rebellious and stick it to the man through counterculture, and it's hard to do that with Bible verses being thrown around that are telling you to be obedient. It's just an inherent contradiction. Because of this, most people look at the genre as an easy cash-in for lazy families that want to raise their kids right - so they just give them a diet version of what everyone else is listening to, instead of going the extra mile to instill them with the right values that will safeguard them against temptation.

The other issue with writing off the majority of rock music is that it was the main genre of music from the 1950s all the way up until the 2010s. Are we supposed to just pretend the last sixty years never happened, and do the same with movies and novels? Have no cultural bearings on what media was released for over half a century and straddled three generations? How are you going to relate to anyone outside of likeminded friends who agree with everything you say? How are you going to have any prayer of convincing someone who's on the fence?

I think that if your values are strong enough, you can listen to something that doesn't line up with what you believe and not get corrupted by it (although you definitely need to avoid listening to stuff that goes out of its way to be vulgar or disrespectful). A lot of what was released up until maybe 2000 also wasn't completely degenerate and worthless, and there are a lot of values or views buried in there that unintentionally line up with what we all believe on here. That's pretty much stopped dead in its tracks today (especially since 2010).

Today I don't think there really is any "common media". we've become so Balkanized when it comes to media, everyone has their own niche and there really is nothing like that anymore. We're also now in a cultural realignment, where Christians are becoming the new counterculture. So maybe someone over the next few decades will think of Christian (or just traditionalist/nationalist aligned) rock that doesn't across as a terrible copy of what's being listened to, and it'll become the new genre that pisses off the old people.

I look forward to that. As someone on the right, I've always hated having to listen to music from artists I respect but who I know would dislike me in real life - but I've just looked at it as part of the territory with popular culture. Listening to music that lines up with my values *and* I have a passion for? It would be a dream come true.
 
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Maddox

Sparrow
If you think about, what MTV and VH1 showed in, let's say, the year 1995 and you compare it to the stuff we get today, you think, that mainstream entertainment back then was highly intellectual. Nowadays you have Cardi B and so on, the music is just primitive and so are the videos. In the 90s and early 2000s they actually made good music videos.

I think the last great video I saw was The Killers, "Mr. Brightside" in 2004. In fact, it was so well done it reminded me of the big-budget videos from the 80s put out by the top pop artists. An amazing set design and an actual storyline make it one of the best I've ever seen.
 

Maddox

Sparrow
If you are a true follower of Christ, you should avoid almost all forms of rock music.
I understand nowadays there are a few christian rock bands that worship God and glorify him but they are a tiny minority.
Over 99% of secular music (all sub genres) is satanic. Most covertly, and some quiet openly so.

Nonsense. There's absolutely no reason to do that unless the lyrics are Satanical in nature and that number isn't anywhere near to being 99% of the available music content out there.
 
Christian rock is super cringe for the most part (there's a reason why Creed and Collective Soul are the only really prominent ones anyone can name - and they're the butt of constant jokes). Christian music can be done if it's something like folk or singer-songwriter, but I usually like to just go with full bore classical music and hymns, those don't have to strain to be "cool" to sell albums.

The spirit of rock music, in general, was to be rebellious and stick it to the man through counterculture, and it's hard to do that with Bible verses being thrown around that are telling you to be obedient. It's just an inherent contradiction. Because of this, most people look at the genre as an easy cash-in for lazy families that want to raise their kids right - so they just give them a diet version of what everyone else is listening to, instead of going the extra mile to instill them with the right values that will safeguard them against temptation.

The other issue with writing off the majority of rock music is that it was the main genre of music from the 1950s all the way up until the 2010s. Are we supposed to just pretend the last sixty years never happened, and do the same with movies and novels? Have no cultural bearings on what media was released for over half a century and straddled three generations? How are you going to relate to anyone outside of likeminded friends who agree with everything you say? How are you going to have any prayer of convincing someone who's on the fence?

I think that if your values are strong enough, you can listen to something that doesn't line up with what you believe and not get corrupted by it (although you definitely need to avoid listening to stuff that goes out of its way to be vulgar or disrespectful). A lot of what was released up until maybe 2000 also wasn't completely degenerate and worthless, and there are a lot of values or views buried in there that unintentionally line up with what we all believe on here. That's pretty much stopped dead in its tracks today (especially since 2010).

Today I don't think there really is any "common media". we've become so Balkanized when it comes to media, everyone has their own niche and there really is nothing like that anymore. We're also now in a cultural realignment, where Christians are becoming the new counterculture. So maybe someone over the next few decades will think of Christian (or just traditionalist/nationalist aligned) rock that doesn't across as a terrible copy of what's being listened to, and it'll become the new genre that pisses off the old people.

I look forward to that. As someone on the right, I've always hated having to listen to music from artists I respect but who I know would dislike me in real life - but I've just looked at it as part of the territory with popular culture. Listening to music that lines up with my values *and* I have a passion for? It would be a dream come true.
As Falco told us, Mozart was a punker (und er lebte in der großen Stadt/he lived in the big city). The best Church music ever composed is by Johann Sebastian Bach, nicknamed the fifth Evangelist. This Lutherean punk rocker signed his catchy Christian compositions with Soli Deo Gloria.
Christian Rock is just "please don't" in my opinion. When i go to a rock concert, i want to drink and be wild - if the topic of the music is the Lord, you cant be wild.
 

gent

Pigeon
Christian rock is super cringe for the most part (there's a reason why Creed and Collective Soul are the only really prominent ones anyone can name - and they're the butt of constant jokes). Christian music can be done if it's something like folk or singer-songwriter, but I usually like to just go with full bore classical music and hymns, those don't have to strain to be "cool" to sell albums.
Creed's song "My Own Prison" is really powerful IMO. Also Jars of Clay is an extremely good band.

I listened to a lot of heavy music since I was a teenager. Now that I have come back to Christ I do feel like kind of bad about some of the stuff I listened to, especially the really heavy and aggressive stuff. I definitely limit it more than I used to.
 
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