The decline of rock music

In Eastern Europe the 80s punk bands were actually against the oppression by the socialist governments. Pure anti-establishment. Today the same guys sadly turned to green hippies fighting "pollution" and "businessmen bad".
 

Dallas Winston

Ostrich
Gold Member
The heyday of "Rock" in my opinion, was the 70s-early 90's. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Van Halen, Rush, Metallica, and the "hair metal" bands, which, in my estimation, was lower quality rock, but had some memorable riffs nonetheless. Then, you had the Grunge movement of the early 90's and more adventurous rock such as Radio Head, Smashing Pumpkins, et al.

Keep in mind, this is all coming from a Gen X'er and we tend to like best what we grew up with, but I think I'm accurate because rock was what all the young people then listened too. Even girls were into it, until Menudo came along. At high school or college parties, girls would be dancing to Van Halen, Back in Black, or something off Led Zeppelin IV. If what the young listen to is any measure, I'd say rock is on the decline nowadays.

There were many off-shoots during this period, of course, such as the the punk and thrash-type bands (Black Flag) or the really dark ( basically evil) metal of M. Manson and others, but those were outliers, not the Fathers of Rock.

There's still good bands rock bands these days. I think modern day bands are using themes and sounds that were established in the heyday. I'm not marginalizing Elvis, The Beatles, Chuck Berry, or other 50s-60s phenomenons, but when I think of "Rock", I think of hard rock.

It's been explained to death, but most bands and "musicians" today, don't even write their songs, much less play their own instruments. It's mass manufactured.

Final thoughts: Country + Rap = Crap
 

Rocha

Ostrich
Gold Member
Bury Zenek said:
I've been surfing my extensive music library for older stuff to rekindle the soundtrack of my youth. I picked up Pennywise. More precisely the superb 'Straight Ahead' and 'Land Of The Free' and had a sad reflection. It's amazing how 'rock' music have disappeared completely from popular conciousness. Just twenty years ago the mainstream was awash with Nu Metal and Melodic Hardcore, music that still tried to convey woke message.

Damn the world has changed. Now everything even remotely mainstream is weak bullshit devoid of any value. The current generation is somehow a reflection of this. If coronachan happened two decades ago we would've been sharp enough to give it the middle finger! I'm glad I was hooked on Punk from young age, this certainly taught me to distrust the establishment by default. I miss those days.


Pennywise and most of the "militant" punk rock scene went even more underground after 9/11.

This "Fuck Authority" video on your post was made a couple months before 9/11, and that "Land of the Free" album also released a few months before, making this a totally un-American music.

I don't know what happened to rock, but some older bands still are dropping great stuff like Judas Priest, Manowar or Accept, for example.
 

Rocha

Ostrich
Gold Member
Days of Broken Arrows said:
Uzisuicide said:
I disagree somewhat with some opinions here. After Kirk Cobain, rock music DID become a pity party. Songs were about not being able to fit in to society, suicide and self loarhing. Although those types of songs were always part of the genre, they completely saturated it after Cobain. The hair band days of: "Girls, Girls, Girls", "We're Not Gonna Take It" and "Nothin' But a Good Time" were replaced by "I Hate Myself and Want To Die."

Weanwhile hip hop and rap videos were showing guys with bling throwing money out of convertables with hookers humping their leg. Rock music is in a rebuilding phase and has been for some time now.
Yes, let's discuss Kurt Cobain. He's the so-called "independent spirit" who had no issue taking money from a major label, kissing up to MTV, and glad-handling corporate magazine writers.

But his hypocrisy runs far deeper than that. Cobain was a self-proclaimed "male feminist," yet he made phone calls threatening to KILL (!!!) female music writer Victoria Clark.

Think about that. Think about the most "sexist" thing most of us have done. I'll bet no one threatened to kill a woman -- and was stupid/arrogant enough to leave the threat on her answering machine.

All of which leads me to a larger point, namely that the posturing of Cobain and his peers turned adolescents off to rock and pushed them toward hip hop. Kids can smell hypocrisy a mile away.

Here is one of many recordings of our beloved musical male feminist. For more, Google Kurt Cobain Victoria Clark (no quotes) and see what happens.

This is a great post.

I used to like Nirvana when I was a kid and the band still existed, as most of the kids back then liked. I continued to like in my adolescence...

Nowadays I can only think how pathetic and cringe this band was. My Eureka moment was recently (evem though I did not listen their music for years) was when I saw a documentary about Cobain and his wife, and he shows up in ia own wedding wearing a pajama... because he was too lazy to dress better...
 

hedonist

Woodpecker
911 said:
At the risk of sounding too jaded and negative, one big problem with rock today is that it has all been done before. Guys with a guitar, bass, drums have played together for 60 years now. The song above is OK, but it sounds a whole lot like the riff from CCRs "Fortunate Son" declined in a minor key and slapped with vocals from the register of the Cult''s Ian Astbury circa 1994...
I actually read the comment before hearing the music and when I hit play I almost fell off my chair laughing...absolute perfect description.
 
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Mountaineer

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Rocha said:
Pennywise and most of the "militant" punk rock scene went even more underground after 9/11.

This "Fuck Authority" video on your post was made a couple months before 9/11, and that "Land of the Free" album also released a few months before, making this a totally un-American music.
And yet they were still on the money. Being "American" then turned out to be playing along the deep state con and being tricked into a fake war on terrorism in Iraq. Way to go...
 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
Bitter End said:
In Eastern Europe the 80s punk bands were actually against the oppression by the socialist governments. Pure anti-establishment. Today the same guys sadly turned to green hippies fighting "pollution" and "businessmen bad".
Youth will always rebel to try and gain more freedom, that's the way of life.
 

lonewolf1992

Woodpecker
I just wanted to post this list of fresh acts of Guitar music made in 2010s. It has a variety of everything. I just think these bands do have spark, substance and defiance in what they do.





 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
redpillage said:
Here's a more commercial version which is pretty awesome - definitely would count as commercial rock in my book:

Haha, I saw the trailer for that movie and ordered it right away. Never had the time to watch it unfortunately :(

In the meantime, here is a song
Uzisuicide said:
about not being able to fit in to society
which shows that it doesn't need to be all whiny and ball-less :
 

Rocha

Ostrich
Gold Member
^ That song you posted is unbearable. Just loud noise and some guys screaming, I know this is what older people used to say about heavy metal, but in this case it is true.

At least mofo's like Sepultura or Slayer had great guitars, drums and bass, true musicians with virtuosism. And the screams where bereable.


 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Occasionally I'll hear something in these genres I like, but I feel like hardcore/metalcore are basically the white people equivalent of rap music.
 

catoblepa

Woodpecker
Am I the only one who tends to believe the Cobain's murder theory? dude was found with a large quantity of heroin in his blood, enough to kill most and certainly enough to not make you able to remove syringe, put cap on it, remove elastic from arm, put everything aside and take a shotgun, exercise a certain pressure to pull the trigger and shoot himself. It's something that borders the impossible.
Meanwhile Courtney Love never sued the guy who explicitly and publicly accused her of being responsible for the alleged murder. This private detective went on to divulgate the registration of his phone conversations with Courtney which is another serious felony and yet she never did anything legally against him. Quite suspicious. If you are sure of your innocence, you shouldn't avoid any legal proceeding against someone who slandered you in multiple occasions.
 

CynicalContrarian

Owl
Gold Member
Not to say that the people involved didn't have their issues / problems or that the early rock scene & hippie scene weren't there for other reasons / intentions etc.

Yet there definitely seems to be more 'soul' to earlier rock music.
Compared to how so much music today is empty & hollow.
The drugs would have played a part as well I'd say.

Cream - White Room


The Jimi Hendrix Experience - All Along The Watchtower

 

Rocha

Ostrich
Gold Member
CynicalContrarian said:
Not to say that the people involved didn't have their issues / problems or that the early rock scene & hippie scene weren't there for other reasons / intentions etc.

Yet there definitely seems to be more 'soul' to earlier rock music.
Compared to how so much music today is empty & hollow.
The drugs would have played a part as well I'd say.

Cream - White Room


The Jimi Hendrix Experience - All Along The Watchtower

Thing is, this guys are musicians. You posted songs played by Clapton and Hendrix, two of the best guitar players ever.

Not so many good musicians nowadays, there are other ways to make a life...

Is a bit like boxing, in the 60s and 70s there was probably 10 different guys who could be world heavyweight champions nowadays.

Same as with bullfighting in Portugal or Spain, 50 years ago there where much more guys doing a life on that.

Also the music that is played on the radio is bubblegum crap, just chew and throw out, is all the same, and it probably is even made/written by only 4 or 5 different producers.
 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
Rocha said:
^ That song you posted is unbearable. Just loud noise and some guys screaming, I know this is what older people used to say about heavy metal, but in this case it is true.
No problem with growing old, man :) Could you enlighten us with your opinion on this, please :

 

Bizet

Woodpecker
Bury Zenek said:
Damn the world has changed. Now everything even remotely mainstream is weak bullshit devoid of any value.
It's not like Pennywise were a super-mainstream band. 'Fuck Authority' was released in 2001. The highest-selling single of that year was 'Hanging by a Moment' by Lighthouse.

Mainstream radio has always catered for the tastes of teenage girls.

Don't believe me? What do you think the most popular song of 1969 was? Perhaps something from Hendrix? Or maybe The Beatles or The Stones?

It was actually this...
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1969
 

Orson

Kingfisher
Dallas Winston said:
The heyday of "Rock" in my opinion, was the 70s-early 90's. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Van Halen, Rush, Metallica, and the "hair metal" bands, which, in my estimation, was lower quality rock, but had some memorable riffs nonetheless. Then, you had the Grunge movement of the early 90's and more adventurous rock such as Radio Head, Smashing Pumpkins, et al.

Keep in mind, this is all coming from a Gen X'er and we tend to like best what we grew up with, but I think I'm accurate because rock was what all the young people then listened too. Even girls were into it, until Menudo came along. At high school or college parties, girls would be dancing to Van Halen, Back in Black, or something off Led Zeppelin IV. If what the young listen to is any measure, I'd say rock is on the decline nowadays.

There were many off-shoots during this period, of course, such as the the punk and thrash-type bands (Black Flag) or the really dark ( basically evil) metal of M. Manson and others, but those were outliers, not the Fathers of Rock.

There's still good bands rock bands these days. I think modern day bands are using themes and sounds that were established in the heyday. I'm not marginalizing Elvis, The Beatles, Chuck Berry, or other 50s-60s phenomenons, but when I think of "Rock", I think of hard rock.

It's been explained to death, but most bands and "musicians" today, don't even write their songs, much less play their own instruments. It's mass manufactured.

Final thoughts: Country + Rap = Crap
Yeah, say it Dallas! There’s a video on YouTube entitled the decade line of popular music. A year or two ago I gave it a listen.

He adds to the points you’ve made in your concluding sentence, pointing out the formula used for hits by multiple hit making singers. And that, musically speaking, these hits, songwriters, and music getting radio airplay are considerably less technical, less varied, challenging, creative or interesting. All true.

Sold! was I on his thesis.

On the other hand, you can dig via the internet. The tyranny of isolation and distance has been shrunk mightily.

Last fall, for instance, I was planning some travel to SoCal and Arizona after getting acquainted with Dream Pop artists, Still Corners, a duo, male and female. (The Dream POP genre was almost single handedly defined by Mazzi Star over 20 years ago.) Still Corners was hitting small venues there, so go I shall, I thought,

I checked their tour dates and went searching for tickets. Oddly enough, either they were almost all sold out, or else they were not available. Since the former were rare, but there, it took me a while to figure out that they simply weren’t updating their tour schedule, and that the local venues didn’t list them because their touring plans had changed, and the tour had shrunk.

Small outfit, little management support? Exactly. At any rate, the issue put me off hoping to travel and connect with a gig to see them again live.
It wasn’t as practical as I’d hoped.

Digital and the internet has done one thing great for music. It has moved the money into touring and live performing and fan base building like it was in the 1960s (see the film Almost Famous for a look see into this era, but from the early ‘70s...71 or 72, I think?).

When pop music goes fallow, there are alternatives. The disco era was one such time. Although, One of the great authors at the Weekly Standard was a Terry Teachout.

I caught one review by Teachout before it folded of a three volume history of the song, or the third volume of three.

You see, my theory about disco music was that during a time of often drug infused prog rock - which often abandoned the song form, and thus you could not dance to it - was that disco arose to meet this need. Disco created opportunities for the young and unattached to meet! Rich failed to do this in the mid to late 19700s, until New Wave and Electronic and New Romantics reinvigorated rock music.

Now, again, what were these needs? Music you could dance do show off your body to the opposite sex! The young in every culture need music to get the sexes together to meet, date, and marry...and procreate. The third volume in this history pointed out that today, in advanced nations, this needful excuse or artful tool to get sexes to mingle and get on the marriage and baby-making path, was no longer being met.

What happens to families if youth are no longer socialised into its mating rituals? Decline, inevitable decline.

Unless something is created to take its place.

So, with that serious millennial/gen-Z anti-civilisational problem, one that’s forced our host Roosh to take a stand, relatedly, if I understand correctly, I leave others to answer, perhaps.
 

CynicalContrarian

Owl
Gold Member
Rocha said:
Thing is, this guys are musicians. You posted songs played by Clapton and Hendrix, two of the best guitar players ever.

Not so many good musicians nowadays, there are other ways to make a life...

Is a bit like boxing, in the 60s and 70s there was probably 10 different guys who could be world heavyweight champions nowadays.

Same as with bullfighting in Portugal or Spain, 50 years ago there where much more guys doing a life on that.

Also the music that is played on the radio is bubblegum crap, just chew and throw out, is all the same, and it probably is even made/written by only 4 or 5 different producers.

'Legends' of their field no doubt.
Yet oddly. They had less to draw on for inspiration.
Fewer bands / less music had been released.

Whereas the 'artists' today, now have several decades more to draw inspiration from.
Yet so much of modern music is so ordinary.
Natural talent is always going to be a factor though.

Another reason why I appreciate Mastodon's output so much. Yes they're clearly influenced / inspired by the big notables of the past.
Yet they're still able to create a great & distinct sound that isn't overly generic or overly reminiscent of another band.

Mastodon - Chimes At Midnight


Mastodon - Colony Of Birchmen



Also, now that Opeth have mellowed.
They're also releasing some decent work of late.

Opeth - Cusp Of Eternity


Opeth - Will O The Wisp

 

bucky

Pelican
CynicalContrarian said:
Rocha said:
Thing is, this guys are musicians. You posted songs played by Clapton and Hendrix, two of the best guitar players ever.

Not so many good musicians nowadays, there are other ways to make a life...

Is a bit like boxing, in the 60s and 70s there was probably 10 different guys who could be world heavyweight champions nowadays.

Same as with bullfighting in Portugal or Spain, 50 years ago there where much more guys doing a life on that.

Also the music that is played on the radio is bubblegum crap, just chew and throw out, is all the same, and it probably is even made/written by only 4 or 5 different producers.

'Legends' of their field no doubt.
Yet oddly. They had less to draw on for inspiration.
Fewer bands / less music had been released.

Whereas the 'artists' today, now have several decades more to draw inspiration from.
Yet so much of modern music is so ordinary.
Natural talent is always going to be a factor though.

Another reason why I appreciate Mastodon's output so much. Yes they're clearly influenced / inspired by the big notables of the past.
Yet they're still able to create a great & distinct sound that isn't overly generic or overly reminiscent of another band.

Mastodon - Chimes At Midnight


Mastodon - Colony Of Birchmen



Also, now that Opeth have mellowed.
They're also releasing some decent work of late.

Opeth - Cusp Of Eternity


Opeth - Will O The Wisp

I'm not even a big metal guy, but I picked up their album Leviathan because I read that it was about Moby Dick, a pretty metal book if you think about it with its themes of revenge and the inexorable power of nature. It's great. I'll have to think about putting some other Mastodon on rotation to listen to when lifting or driving.
 

Eusebius

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Rock was a product of an era which is now gone. Just like jazz and classical music. All these genres live on with their aficionados, but the days when they were the beating heart of a culture are gone.
 
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