The decline of rock music

ilostabet

Pelican
Debatable. But to me, this is their pivotal album where everything changed, not the black album like everybody seems to think.

I like prog rock, so I guess that's why I think it's good. Black has one good song, but none of it is even in the same style as AJFA. Black is just more poppy and straight, whereas AFJA is more complex than the ones before.

My favourite is still and will always be Ride The Lightning anyway.
 

ben1

Sparrow
I cut my teeth on punk and metal and played guitar for a while, but I have been utterly uninspired by rock music for the last 10 years and I really have no expectations of ever listening to it again seriously.

The "rebellion" of rock is banal and cringe. I think about how people call degenerates like GG Allin and Lemmy are heralded as "true" rock stars. For what? Destroying themselves with drugs? Harming their own bodies? Having a bunch of immoral sex. There is nothing to celebrate here. How is this heroic? These two are in Hell over a short life of rough living. This should be sobering.

The music itself has grown dull. There is an analogy between "modern art" and rock. Classical art was about men of immense talent dedicating their lives to a craft to study true beauty. "Modern" art is simply about provoking with performance. Minimal raw talent is actually required. The same is largely true with rock music. Rock music is not difficult. Even the "greats" of rock are merely comparable to any conservatory style classical artist. I say this as a guitarist who learned to play some of the best and more technical stuff.

Rock is debased, not based, and that is why it will never be really great. We were duped by rock. We thought we were rebelling against the man. We actually just rebelled against God and so were put under the yoke of man.
 
Historians point to 1954 or thereabouts for when rock started--Bill Haley and his Comets and Elvis Presley were coming to popularity then. For the sake of argument, fast forward ten yeas later when the Beatles went on the Ed Sullivan show. That was 56 years ago. If you look at any other genre of popular music, nothing remained more than a niche for more than.

Rag Time Jazz 1895 - 1920. Jazz 1920 - 1930 or so. Big band was around from 1935 - 1945. The crooners from maybe 1940 - 1960. Just approximate dates of peak popularity, then fading to niche audiences. Country music has been around a long time, but has had distinct phases. The longest a genre ran was around 25 years.

The point is, Rock and and Roll has gone for more than twice as long as any other popular genre the last 100 years. It should have began to fade around 1980, and really that was pretty close to peak creativity. What kept it going was by then music had become highly commercialized, and commerical interests wanted to keep it going. And sure, some good stuff has come out since 1980, but it is with good reason to think that it has been on life support for the past 25 or more years.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Even the "greats" of rock are merely comparable to any conservatory style classical artist. I say this as a guitarist who learned to play some of the best and more technical stuff.
I'd beg to differ with some guitar players like King Crimson's Robert Fripp - but he's the exception and not the rule, for sure.

On this subject, one rock star who had wanted to be a composer was Frank Zappa (who I've said a little too often on here that I'm a huge fan of - he adored Stravinsky and Varese). A huge sobering experience of mine in 2015? Finally listening to his 1990s album The Yellow Shark, which was modern composition along the lines of what he'd always wanted to do. I saved it so I could get to it last, since it was such a big deal for him.

It's damn near unlistenable. What a letdown. As much as I still admire him as a musician, his subversive style of rock was the best music he could make.
 

ben1

Sparrow
I'd beg to differ with some guitar players like King Crimson's Robert Fripp - but he's the exception and not the rule, for sure.

On this subject, one rock star who had wanted to be a composer was Frank Zappa (who I've said a little too often on here that I'm a huge fan of - he adored Stravinsky and Varese). A huge sobering experience of mine in 2015? Finally listening to his 1990s album The Yellow Shark, which was modern composition along the lines of what he'd always wanted to do. I saved it so I could get to it last, since it was such a big deal for him.

It's damn near unlistenable. What a letdown. As much as I still admire him as a musician, his subversive style of rock was the best music he could make.
There are some great musicians who play rock, but typically this fact is just incidental to their careers if it is even true.
 

stugatz

Pelican
There are some great musicians who play rock, but typically this fact is just incidental to their careers if it is even true.
Fripp is definitely a humorless composer who just happened to find his way into progressive rock and stay there. (Someone like him, I'd be very surprised if he even touched the sex and drugs - it would cut into his practice time.) I'm wondering how it even happened - but stranger things have happened.
 

ben1

Sparrow
Multiple cases of rappers flagrantly stealing lyrics from rock videos. I don't care what people say, playing an instrument and singing will always be more than using a machine to make music. Modern trap music is not only unoriginal and repetitive., its degenerate and perfidious.

This is coming from a edm fan, I frankly think that the late 90s-early 2000s period of electronic music popularity with people like tiesto and avicii ended the dominance of actual physical music being popular.
I've played guitar and I've done synths and hands down, synths require 10x the talent and skill. There is a whole new level of craft involved in sound design that just isn't present in the world of guitars. Even the most creative and talented guitarists.
 

DenizenJane

Woodpecker



Pretty insightful quotes, whether this guy knows it or not.

This isn't muuuusic! When I was a kid you dressed like a woman and you sung about the devil...now that- that was music!


You don't want to fall into the fallacy of everything being worse after you were born simply because it came after you were born. So it takes a little bit of guts to go ahead and admit that even alot of classic rock was concocted by straight-up degenerates.

And there's rock music I like, but its far in between and frankly only found and isolated by the power of the internet. Whether that makes me a hypocrite or not, I do not know.

I heard Queen over a classic rock station the other day ,and I have to say... what garbage.

GalleileoOoOoO. Gross.
 
I was a professional musician for most of my life and even though I was formally schooled in jazz and classical, my roots were in rock. However, after looking into the history a bit more, I have since come to the conclusion that much of the music, especially in the late '60's, was actually being used to socially engineer society away from traditional values and mores into the decadent leftist hellhole we find ourselves in today. It promoted drug use, rebellion, promiscuous sex and degraded Christianity, among other things.

I would definitely recommend a book called "Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon" by Dave McGowan. It goes into great detail about how the hippie counterculture was largely an orchestrated phenomena, centered around a military base in Laurel Canyon and also how many of those artists, such as Steven Stills, David Crosbie, Jim Morrison and Frank Zappa, had ties to the military. (For example, Morrison's father was an admiral in the US navy who had overseen the Gulf of Tonkin incident. There is a picture of Morrison on the bridge of his father's ship with a crewcut looking like the all-American boy and then a little over a year later is suddenly transformed into a longhaired hippie figure running around LA fronting a band even though he had no musical training and had never shown any interest in pop music up until then.)

Also, many of the so-called rock "artists" were simply actors, who didn't play on or compose most of their hits. For example, check out a guy named Mike Williams - he has produced a great four hour long expose on the Beatles and pretty much proves that there is no way they could have written and recorded some of their seminal works, given their busy schedules. In 1966, the TV show "The Monkees" came out - it was a group of actors playing musicians who were obviously based on the Beatles, and even toured, even though everyone knew they were actors. Perhaps this was a way of hiding the truth in plain sight?

Also, it has become very clear to me that many of these performers had Satanic elements in their messaging, both overtly and more subtly through backwards messaging in their songs. (Again, the Beatles spring to mind. Their infamous "dead baby cover" on the US version of "Yesterday... And Today" was pretty dark especially given what we now know about pedophilia and ritualistic child abuse among the elites and there was all kinds of backwards messages in their later work. Led Zeppelin was another such band, with Jimmy Page being an overt occultist and The Rolling Stones were were also pretty dark.). I know the backwards messaging thing sounds weird but if you study the occult and specifically the writings of Aleister Crowley, you will discover that this is a thing.

These days, I almost exclusively listen to Western and Indian classical music, which uplifts and inspires the soul (which is the purpose of such a noble art form as music) and pretty much ignore anything produced since the 1920's because I'm fed up being manipulated by depraved pop culture.
 
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I was a professional musician for most of my life and even though I was formally schooled in jazz and classical, my roots were in rock. However, after looking into the history a bit more, I have since come to the conclusion that much of the music, especially in the late '60's, was actually being used to socially engineer society away from traditional values and mores into the decadent leftist hellhole we find ourselves in today. It promoted drug use, rebellion, promiscuous sex and degraded Christianity, among other things.

I would definitely recommend a book called "Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon" by Dave McGowan. It goes into great detail about how the hippie counterculture was largely an orchestrated phenomena, centered around a military base in Laurel Canyon and also how many of those artists, such as Steven Stills, David Crosbie, Jim Morrison and Frank Zappa, had ties to the military. (For example, Morrison's father was an admiral in the US navy who had overseen the Gulf of Tonkin incident. There is a picture of Morrison on the bridge of his father's ship with a crewcut looking like the all-American boy and then a little over a year later is suddenly transformed into a longhaired hippie figure running around LA fronting a band even though he had no musical training and had never shown any interest in pop music up until then.)

Also, many of the so-called rock "artists" were simply actors, who didn't play on or compose most of their hits. For example, check out a guy named Mike Williams - he has produced a great four hour long expose on the Beatles and pretty much proves that there is no way they could have written and recorded some of their seminal works, given their busy schedules. In 1966, the TV show "The Monkees" came out - it was a group of actors playing musicians who were obviously based on the Beatles, and even toured, even though everyone knew they were actors. Perhaps this was a way of hiding the truth in plain sight?

Also, it has become very clear to me that many of these performers had Satanic elements in their messaging, both overtly and more subtly through backwards messaging in their songs. (Again, the Beatles spring to mind. Their infamous "dead baby cover" on the US version of "Yesterday... And Today" was pretty dark especially given what we now know about pedophilia and ritualistic child abuse among the elites and there was all kinds of backwards messages in their later work. Led Zeppelin was another such band, with Jimmy Page being an overt occultist and The Rolling Stones were were also pretty dark.). I know the backwards messaging thing sounds weird but if you study the occult and specifically the writings of Aleister Crowley, you will discover that this is a thing.

These days, I almost exclusively listen to Western and Indian classical music, which uplifts and inspires the soul (which is the purpose of such a noble art form as music) and pretty much ignore anything produced since the 1920's because I'm fed up being manipulated by depraved pop culture.
Good comments, and funnily enough i just read Wierd Scenes in Laurel Canyon last week.
 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
These days, I almost exclusively listen to Western and Indian classical music, which uplifts and inspires the soul (which is the purpose of such a noble art form as music) and pretty much ignore anything produced since the 1920's because I'm fed up being manipulated by depraved pop culture.
Much good music was released after 1920 though.

This is .. cleansing, for lack of a better word :
 

ilostabet

Pelican
An interesting thing to me, which I realized recently, is that the success of 'popular music' is due to it mimicking (though in a degraded, commercial way - as that is really the only avenue left in modernity) the traditional setting of music, which is ritual.

The modern concert (rock/pop/hip hop) is a ritual which goes beyond the music, it is not a pure aesthetic experience like the classical concert, in which everyone is sitting down and listening closely to the music alone, and in which the composer and the conductor (like gods) are the only ones with agency. The modern concert is a participative event, and the music is an addition, but it's not the whole thing - it used to baffle me how some bands played really badly (compared to their records), I still remember how awful Red Hot Chili Peppers were live, and yet people still enjoyed it. They enjoyed it because the music itself was only one aspect of the thing, the ritual was the complete thing.

When you understand this (and you can only understand it by knowing what music was, and how it fitted into, the traditional world - i.e. before the Renaissance in the West, and everywhere else in the world that Western materialism has not conquered) you see how unique and curious the Western classical music tradition really is. Essentially the concept of 'serious' or 'art' music is an aberration, and it is a product of very specific times and places, which do not really exist elsewhere - similar to the wider art world, the Western forms consumed themselves because they pointed toward individualism and individualization, instead of eternity and community, and this is how Bach and Beethoven lead to Stockhausen and Cage - inaudible, barely musical, vomit. This fragmentation of higher and lower forms and their concurrent degeneration is, of course, seen not only in art but in everything in modernity.

Obviously it should not prevent us from appreciating this music, but I think it's essential to understand just how strange it is (from a historical point of view) to sit down and listen to music, how disembodied it is from experience, history, tradition. Popular music, because of its participative aspect, is much closer to traditional music - however, again like everything in modernity, in an upside down, inverted sense. In this sense, and not in the puritan (which is also modern) way of understanding, it is literally satanic.
 
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