The demonetization thread (Paypal, Stripe, Visa, Mastercard, etc)
- Thread starter Roosh
- Start date
Hypno
Crow
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
As bad as this is, the government is worse.
The banking regulators started something called Operation Chokepoint where they basically don't let banks process payments for certain businesses, such as
Ammunition Sales
Cable Box De-scramblers
Coin Dealers
Credit Card Schemes
Credit Repair Services
Dating Services
Debt Consolidation Scams
Drug Paraphernalia
Escort Services
Firearms Sales
Fireworks Sales
Get Rich Products
Government Grants
Home-Based Charities
Life-Time Guarantees
Life-Time Memberships
Lottery Sales
Mailing Lists/Personal Info
Money Transfer Networks
On-line Gambling
Pawn Shops
Payday Loans
Pharmaceutical Sales
Ponzi Schemes
Pornography[9]
Pyramid-Type Sales
Racist Materials
Surveillance Equipment
Telemarketing
Tobacco Sales
Travel Clubs
Operation Choke Point is an initiative of the United States Department of Justice that was announced in 2013,[1] which is investigating banks in the United States and the business they do with payment processors, payday lenders, and other companies believed to be at higher risk for fraud and money laundering.
This operation, disclosed in an August 2013 Wall Street Journal story,[2] has been accused of bypassing due process; the government is pressuring the financial industry to cut off the companies' access to banking services including access to capital(loans), without first having shown that the targeted companies are violating the law.[3][4][5][6] As reported by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, critics say, "it's a thinly veiled ideological attack on industries the Obama administration doesn't like, such as gun sellers and coal producers."[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point
As bad as this is, the government is worse.
The banking regulators started something called Operation Chokepoint where they basically don't let banks process payments for certain businesses, such as
Ammunition Sales
Cable Box De-scramblers
Coin Dealers
Credit Card Schemes
Credit Repair Services
Dating Services
Debt Consolidation Scams
Drug Paraphernalia
Escort Services
Firearms Sales
Fireworks Sales
Get Rich Products
Government Grants
Home-Based Charities
Life-Time Guarantees
Life-Time Memberships
Lottery Sales
Mailing Lists/Personal Info
Money Transfer Networks
On-line Gambling
Pawn Shops
Payday Loans
Pharmaceutical Sales
Ponzi Schemes
Pornography[9]
Pyramid-Type Sales
Racist Materials
Surveillance Equipment
Telemarketing
Tobacco Sales
Travel Clubs
Operation Choke Point is an initiative of the United States Department of Justice that was announced in 2013,[1] which is investigating banks in the United States and the business they do with payment processors, payday lenders, and other companies believed to be at higher risk for fraud and money laundering.
This operation, disclosed in an August 2013 Wall Street Journal story,[2] has been accused of bypassing due process; the government is pressuring the financial industry to cut off the companies' access to banking services including access to capital(loans), without first having shown that the targeted companies are violating the law.[3][4][5][6] As reported by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, critics say, "it's a thinly veiled ideological attack on industries the Obama administration doesn't like, such as gun sellers and coal producers."[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point
Hypno
Crow
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
From a legal standpoint, I think a business can choose not to do business with your for any reason unless it violates a specific law. For example, the Civil Rights Act states that you don't have the freedom to not conduct business on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. The EEO Title VII has also been supplemented with legislation prohibiting pregnancy, age, and disability discrimination.
So if you wanted to challenge PayPal's decision, you would have to allege something such as PayPal did this because of your religion, national origin, race, sex, etc. You are not the typical caucasian American, so you might plausibly be able to make this sort of claim, but your argument is still flimsy.
You could sue them and allege they did this because of these things, but since they didn't explain why you don't have much to go on.
You might be able to get to discovery, in which case you can get the actual reason. But its probably a SJW who claims you promote hate or violence. Unless you can prove they cancelled you due to your religion, national origin, etc., you probably lose.
So they can basically take away your first amendment rights, because they are not a government actor.
Of course, you can publicize their position and call for a boycott.
They were spun off of eBay a few years ago and are now a standalone public company. However, the original founders, guys like Thiel and Musk, sold it origianlly to eBay. So while PayPal is public, those guys don't own shares anymore, at least not a significant block. A list of their 5+% holders is here: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1633917/000119312517123296/d243695ddef14a.htm#toc243695_17
From a legal standpoint, I think a business can choose not to do business with your for any reason unless it violates a specific law. For example, the Civil Rights Act states that you don't have the freedom to not conduct business on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. The EEO Title VII has also been supplemented with legislation prohibiting pregnancy, age, and disability discrimination.
So if you wanted to challenge PayPal's decision, you would have to allege something such as PayPal did this because of your religion, national origin, race, sex, etc. You are not the typical caucasian American, so you might plausibly be able to make this sort of claim, but your argument is still flimsy.
You could sue them and allege they did this because of these things, but since they didn't explain why you don't have much to go on.
You might be able to get to discovery, in which case you can get the actual reason. But its probably a SJW who claims you promote hate or violence. Unless you can prove they cancelled you due to your religion, national origin, etc., you probably lose.
So they can basically take away your first amendment rights, because they are not a government actor.
Of course, you can publicize their position and call for a boycott.
They were spun off of eBay a few years ago and are now a standalone public company. However, the original founders, guys like Thiel and Musk, sold it origianlly to eBay. So while PayPal is public, those guys don't own shares anymore, at least not a significant block. A list of their 5+% holders is here: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1633917/000119312517123296/d243695ddef14a.htm#toc243695_17
scrambled
Kingfisher
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
What paypal allows donations for, "Femen Protestor removed from Marine Le Pen Rally":
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/20...-removed-from-the-marine-le-pen-rally-793042/
Going strong said:
What paypal allows donations for, "Femen Protestor removed from Marine Le Pen Rally":
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/20...-removed-from-the-marine-le-pen-rally-793042/
All or Nothing
Pelican
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
Roosh, I think your best option would be to pay a web developer to set up a subscription service for your readers and you charge a monthly fee for "special" content like podcast interviews with well known manosphere people and for longer form articles deconstructing modern political happenings.
You can be forward in explaining why you have added a subscription service for "extra" content (need money), and I'm sure your readers would understand.
You would have to store people's credit card numbers which means extra money being spent on maintenance and security, but I think in the long run that will provide you with an independent revenue stream that no one can interfere with.
Roosh said:
Roosh, I think your best option would be to pay a web developer to set up a subscription service for your readers and you charge a monthly fee for "special" content like podcast interviews with well known manosphere people and for longer form articles deconstructing modern political happenings.
You can be forward in explaining why you have added a subscription service for "extra" content (need money), and I'm sure your readers would understand.
You would have to store people's credit card numbers which means extra money being spent on maintenance and security, but I think in the long run that will provide you with an independent revenue stream that no one can interfere with.
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
I would still need a merchant account, which could cancel me at any moment. For me the plan is to find a company that wants to do business with me, instead of being scared of a random unjust cancellation.
All or Nothing said:
I would still need a merchant account, which could cancel me at any moment. For me the plan is to find a company that wants to do business with me, instead of being scared of a random unjust cancellation.
All or Nothing
Pelican
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
I see the problem there. Well, I wish you the best of luck on finding a cooperative company.
Roosh said:
I see the problem there. Well, I wish you the best of luck on finding a cooperative company.
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
This is part of a bigger crackdown on alternative News and content providers.
Around the same time they recently cracked down on Youtube accounts - anything that they deemed to be "hateful".
Of course among those were all accounts that criticized feminism, the migrant issue, SJWs, Islam, terrorism, mainstream media and candidates.
Large Youtube accounts that had hundreds of thousands of subscribers suddenly were demonetized and instead of making thousands or tens of thousands suddenly made close to nothing.
It is not coincidence that they went after PewDiPie - he was even a liberal, but he had such a large independent following that they had to cut that streak short, because who knows and PewDiPie goes truly alternative and starts spilling the beans to his millions of followers?
You are free to do cat-videos, feminism vids, lovely vids on how wonderful Islam is and ISIS is just misunderstanding Islam, videos that tell you that terror does not matter since more people die in car accidents and that you need to chill when millions of refugees get invited into your country each year - everything is going to be alright.
I expect them to allow full porn vids to be shown on Youtube before they let the thought-criminals have some cash.
They do it via money first and all alternatives have to start to rely on fully alternative platforms and maybe alternative payment services. But one thing is clear - they will make far less money, because you cannot have on one way the full business world feeding the FekeNews-assholes and existing in the same world as the alternative content providers, but then suddenly expecting the Alternatives to rely on a different form of funding.
Infowars somehow managed it by getting alternative commercials and then using their platform to sell products direct. That may be an option for Return of Kings - there are many ways on how to monetize on that front, but it is a slightly different business model than just pure content and books.
By the way - this will only get worse in the future. Youtube and Twitter will likely begin to clamp down on anyone and anything or at least it will be impossible for them to make any cash via those platforms.
This is part of a bigger crackdown on alternative News and content providers.
Around the same time they recently cracked down on Youtube accounts - anything that they deemed to be "hateful".
Of course among those were all accounts that criticized feminism, the migrant issue, SJWs, Islam, terrorism, mainstream media and candidates.
Large Youtube accounts that had hundreds of thousands of subscribers suddenly were demonetized and instead of making thousands or tens of thousands suddenly made close to nothing.
It is not coincidence that they went after PewDiPie - he was even a liberal, but he had such a large independent following that they had to cut that streak short, because who knows and PewDiPie goes truly alternative and starts spilling the beans to his millions of followers?
You are free to do cat-videos, feminism vids, lovely vids on how wonderful Islam is and ISIS is just misunderstanding Islam, videos that tell you that terror does not matter since more people die in car accidents and that you need to chill when millions of refugees get invited into your country each year - everything is going to be alright.
I expect them to allow full porn vids to be shown on Youtube before they let the thought-criminals have some cash.
They do it via money first and all alternatives have to start to rely on fully alternative platforms and maybe alternative payment services. But one thing is clear - they will make far less money, because you cannot have on one way the full business world feeding the FekeNews-assholes and existing in the same world as the alternative content providers, but then suddenly expecting the Alternatives to rely on a different form of funding.
Infowars somehow managed it by getting alternative commercials and then using their platform to sell products direct. That may be an option for Return of Kings - there are many ways on how to monetize on that front, but it is a slightly different business model than just pure content and books.
By the way - this will only get worse in the future. Youtube and Twitter will likely begin to clamp down on anyone and anything or at least it will be impossible for them to make any cash via those platforms.
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
As someone making films and trying to get higher in the film industry (Europe, not Hollywood), I have to wonder... how fucked am I? I'm in a lucky position that I can get financing for my first feature film but after that? Will my film get any meaningful festival presence or distribution? What about my next film, will that get financing even though it's pretty red pilled?
Not feeling really confident about my chances in face of this assault from all sides.
As someone making films and trying to get higher in the film industry (Europe, not Hollywood), I have to wonder... how fucked am I? I'm in a lucky position that I can get financing for my first feature film but after that? Will my film get any meaningful festival presence or distribution? What about my next film, will that get financing even though it's pretty red pilled?
Not feeling really confident about my chances in face of this assault from all sides.
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
So what are the possibilities then of creating an alternative payment network from scratch?
This could be an interesting initiative not just for Roosh and ROK but for the rest of the entrepreneurs amongst the ranks here, you know, taking the gentleman's club idea to the next level?
So what are the possibilities then of creating an alternative payment network from scratch?
This could be an interesting initiative not just for Roosh and ROK but for the rest of the entrepreneurs amongst the ranks here, you know, taking the gentleman's club idea to the next level?
Aurini
Ostrich
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
This is why I'm so staunchly opposed to ANY restriction of money or speech. Trying to ban something for moral reasons might seem like a good idea at first blush, but that approach will inevitably boomerang. Today we ban some extreme, deviant form of pornography - tomorrow they're coming after us.
It really boils down to two principles:
1. Enforce the laws that are on the books. Illegal immigrants are already illegal - a wall isn't actually necessary, just enforcement. Problematic speech is already illegal - we don't need to create "Hate Crimes" to punish those who advocate for violence. Financial fraud is already illegal, and furthermore it's usually the result of some other illegal activity which is going on; instead of mucking about in the manner described by Hypno, just do good police work.
2. Recognize that sites like Google and Facebook are Common Carriers. The phone company is allowed to make a profit as a private entity, but it doesn't have the right to refuse you service because of your politics. The same should hold true for major Internet companies, and financial institutions.
These are straightforward and simple strategies for moving forward, but even so I'm pessimistic about seeing them adopted. Aside from brief pockets of self-awareness (this board, members of the military, the occasional church) most people are utterly asleep; they're too deep within their own narcissistic dreamscape to see what's going on, and the only slogans which penetrate are the simplest, and the most worthless.
TravelerKai said:
This is why I'm so staunchly opposed to ANY restriction of money or speech. Trying to ban something for moral reasons might seem like a good idea at first blush, but that approach will inevitably boomerang. Today we ban some extreme, deviant form of pornography - tomorrow they're coming after us.
It really boils down to two principles:
1. Enforce the laws that are on the books. Illegal immigrants are already illegal - a wall isn't actually necessary, just enforcement. Problematic speech is already illegal - we don't need to create "Hate Crimes" to punish those who advocate for violence. Financial fraud is already illegal, and furthermore it's usually the result of some other illegal activity which is going on; instead of mucking about in the manner described by Hypno, just do good police work.
2. Recognize that sites like Google and Facebook are Common Carriers. The phone company is allowed to make a profit as a private entity, but it doesn't have the right to refuse you service because of your politics. The same should hold true for major Internet companies, and financial institutions.
These are straightforward and simple strategies for moving forward, but even so I'm pessimistic about seeing them adopted. Aside from brief pockets of self-awareness (this board, members of the military, the occasional church) most people are utterly asleep; they're too deep within their own narcissistic dreamscape to see what's going on, and the only slogans which penetrate are the simplest, and the most worthless.
Extinguished Light
Woodpecker
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
We do absolutely need our own platforms, for everything. I'm no programmer so I don't know how to go about it but the system is realigning itself as we speak to prevent another Trump-like movement and to silence all dissident voices. I know initiatives like gab and voat don't have much activity right now but its important to have alternatives like this ready to go when the inevitable death blows come.
El_Gostro said:
We do absolutely need our own platforms, for everything. I'm no programmer so I don't know how to go about it but the system is realigning itself as we speak to prevent another Trump-like movement and to silence all dissident voices. I know initiatives like gab and voat don't have much activity right now but its important to have alternatives like this ready to go when the inevitable death blows come.
CatRocketLauncher
Pigeon
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
If my earlier suggestion was too vanilla (Revolut) then how about AIRTM? https://www.airtm.io it's built on top of https://uphold.com which does bitcoin to $ seamlessly behind the scenes. On uphold you can store bitcoin as, anything, Yuan, Dollars, Gold, Silver, all backed by dollars.
If my earlier suggestion was too vanilla (Revolut) then how about AIRTM? https://www.airtm.io it's built on top of https://uphold.com which does bitcoin to $ seamlessly behind the scenes. On uphold you can store bitcoin as, anything, Yuan, Dollars, Gold, Silver, all backed by dollars.
Attachments
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
Obama's admin once threatened to make Google and several other tech companies like Facebook a type of utility, subject to government regulations, like cable companies, etc.
Once he got their attention, they started donating and cooperating with law enforcement alot more!
The lesson they learned was to participate with the overlords before they force them to and take away their ability to act like a private business that could refuse your business for any reason they felt like it, even though they are the only game in town and have virtual monopolies on things.
America is far more pro monopoly than ever before. You could make the case that it is about as bad or worse than years before the Sherman Act of 1890.
Aurini said:
Obama's admin once threatened to make Google and several other tech companies like Facebook a type of utility, subject to government regulations, like cable companies, etc.
Once he got their attention, they started donating and cooperating with law enforcement alot more!
The lesson they learned was to participate with the overlords before they force them to and take away their ability to act like a private business that could refuse your business for any reason they felt like it, even though they are the only game in town and have virtual monopolies on things.
America is far more pro monopoly than ever before. You could make the case that it is about as bad or worse than years before the Sherman Act of 1890.
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
I have to believe that these gobalist idiots are playing with fire in ways they don't understand.
Every time I see moves like this to squash emergent players like Roosh and their movements with these dirty tricks it makes me just a little more militant. It sends the message "we will never allow this to be settled with words and ideas". Well what's left then? Force. That is all.
And I know I'm not alone in this. If I'm feeling the squeeze at the ass end of the world then there's plenty of guys like me that are much closer to the flames and no doubt even more angry than I am.
But of course the line between observation and wishful thinking is always so blurry.
The Dark Side clouds every thing. Impossible to see, the future is.
I have to believe that these gobalist idiots are playing with fire in ways they don't understand.
Every time I see moves like this to squash emergent players like Roosh and their movements with these dirty tricks it makes me just a little more militant. It sends the message "we will never allow this to be settled with words and ideas". Well what's left then? Force. That is all.
And I know I'm not alone in this. If I'm feeling the squeeze at the ass end of the world then there's plenty of guys like me that are much closer to the flames and no doubt even more angry than I am.
But of course the line between observation and wishful thinking is always so blurry.
The Dark Side clouds every thing. Impossible to see, the future is.
RE: Paypal's crackdown against red pill and alt right sites
It's not quite ready yet, but particl could be an option:
https://particl.io/
It's not quite ready yet, but particl could be an option:
https://particl.io/