The destruction of modern day women

[TrainedLogosmotion]

Single female Orthodox convert, formerly secular, is frustrated with the fact that single Orthodox men desire young, fertile, traditional homemaking wives to have children with.

She views this as slavery and shaming to women. She makes alot of solid points like how we need to put Christ first and become the person worthy of what we desire in a spouse, but I don't see how she's missing the fact that these types of qualities are valuable ideals for men and why they are important.

She complains that men aren't financially stable and they live with their moms. That she doesn't want to submit to a man that is basically a boy that can't support her and a family. Sidenote: I don't see this in the Church at my local level. I see 0 young single women without kids, maybe a few younger men, and then 99% boomers and traditionalist generation.

But fair enough. I'm know there's alot of these types of men that aren't doing what the church teaches or what saints tell us about finding a spouse in a Godly manner. Immature little ortho bros. They want this ideal trad wife but they aren't shaping themselves to be an ideal trad husband.

Again, the part being missed here is that even the ones who ARE shaping themselves to be ideal trad husband's, STILL DESIRE TRADITIONAL WOMEN. So that means things like, trigger warning , hopefully being a virgin, less baggage, young/fertile, healthy weight, homemaking qualities like cooking/childcare, being feminine, etc.

So it's OK for you to say these things about men and have desirable ideals of men, but when men want certain things, like not wanting women with too much baggage from being abused by secular men, are overweight, too career driven, too old, etc it's slavery and shaming. It seems hypocritical. I do get her point but I just think she's not quite seeing the whole picture.

The thing about yoga that is so offensive to her. Yoga is intentional postures in Hindu demon worship. Orthodox men don't want women who pray to demons. That should be obvious. It shows an alignment to a paradigm that isn't Orthodox. It's not just men trying to be mean and hateful. We can't be open to false ideology just because that's a nicer way to get women to convert. That type of thinking leads to gay flags outside the church.

All in all, I'm happy to see people like her popping up on the scene. Yoga/insta peronal trainer girl is a tough convert in today's woke clown world, so God bless her on her journey. I'm sure my views are a bit messed up. I'm still a catechuman and trying to shape myself to be worthy of a trad Ortho wife, Godwilling. Excited to see these trailblazing women come behind the men and become Orthodox.

If I was a 16 year old acne-faced shy and awkward teen boy living with my mom, with no job or interesting hobbies, but I wore a suit to liturgy and argued like Jay Dyer at coffee hour, I would not feel "judged/shamed/ridiculed" for my status. I would understand that I'm just not the ideal trad husband. I wouldn't say the traits women desire are trying to make me a slave.

I really wish there were more young men and women at my church. I'd love to have these types of conversations with people in their 20s, 30s, 40s.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

Single female Orthodox convert, formerly secular, is frustrated with the fact that single Orthodox men desire young, fertile, traditional homemaking wives to have children with.

She views this as slavery and shaming to women. She makes alot of solid points like how we need to put Christ first and become the person worthy of what we desire in a spouse, but I don't see how she's missing the fact that these types of qualities are valuable ideals for men and why they are important.

She complains that men aren't financially stable and they live with their moms. That she doesn't want to submit to a man that is basically a boy that can't support her and a family. Sidenote: I don't see this in the Church at my local level. I see 0 young single women without kids, maybe a few younger men, and then 99% boomers and traditionalist generation.

But fair enough. I'm know there's alot of these types of men that aren't doing what the church teaches or what saints tell us about finding a spouse in a Godly manner. Immature little ortho bros. They want this ideal trad wife but they aren't shaping themselves to be an ideal trad husband.

Again, the part being missed here is that even the ones who ARE shaping themselves to be ideal trad husband's, STILL DESIRE TRADITIONAL WOMEN. So that means things like, trigger warning , hopefully being a virgin, less baggage, young/fertile, healthy weight, homemaking qualities like cooking/childcare, being feminine, etc.

So it's OK for you to say these things about men and have desirable ideals of men, but when men want certain things, like not wanting women with too much baggage from being abused by secular men, are overweight, too career driven, too old, etc it's slavery and shaming. It seems hypocritical. I do get her point but I just think she's not quite seeing the whole picture.

The thing about yoga that is so offensive to her. Yoga is intentional postures in Hindu demon worship. Orthodox men don't want women who pray to demons. That should be obvious. It shows an alignment to a paradigm that isn't Orthodox. It's not just men trying to be mean and hateful. We can't be open to false ideology just because that's a nicer way to get women to convert. That type of thinking leads to gay flags outside the church.

All in all, I'm happy to see people like her popping up on the scene. Yoga/insta peronal trainer girl is a tough convert in today's woke clown world, so God bless her on her journey. I'm sure my views are a bit messed up. I'm still a catechuman and trying to shape myself to be worthy of a trad Ortho wife, Godwilling. Excited to see these trailblazing women come behind the men and become Orthodox.

If I was a 16 year old acne-faced shy and awkward teen boy living with my mom, with no job or interesting hobbies, but I wore a suit to liturgy and argued like Jay Dyer at coffee hour, I would not feel "judged/shamed/ridiculed" for my status. I would understand that I'm just not the ideal trad husband. I wouldn't say the traits women desire are trying to make me a slave.

I really wish there were more young men and women at my church. I'd love to have these types of conversations with people in their 20s, 30s, 40s.

I just want to add that I recommend checking out Melissa's channel. I think many of us might relate to her conversion story. She's really a great catch for some lucky guy out there! I think maybe I misunderstood some of her points and was a but unfair and uncharitable. Something I need to work on.

 

[Blade Runner]

I really wish there were more young men and women at my church. I'd love to have these types of conversations with people in their 20s, 30s, 40s

This is what happens: the society informs people more than the faith, which only 10-20% are all that interested in, of people who are ok with it or otherwise go. As a red pill guy, I even once asked a famous priest what would one have to minimally do to be considered a "member" and it's actually a legit question for surveys and for being honest with people, and I was completely dismissed, almost (my perception) as being judgmental. I found that to be fake, modern and emotional nonsense to a valid question. Why does all of this matter? Well, we have moms and grandmas with kids a lot, no father present or all that into the faith. We send our daughters off to uni, barely see them until age 30 (same as this youtuber in a weirdly different way). We do it to our sons as well, not even knowing the defenses for the nonsense in academia, or how to teach them properly. Finally, numbers of orthodox are so small, compatible people is a hard find, esp when there aren't real avenues for our people to meet in large numbers; not just a weekend conference every year in a distant state.

I think maybe I misunderstood some of her points and was a but unfair and uncharitable.

Not really, a youtube commenter told her what you said. You come into a normal minded, traditional culture and think it is shaming? Why wouldn't modern life and feminism be shamed? Is it this girl's fault? Not mostly, certainly not entirely. But the culture is totally sick, so of course there's going to be a clash. Why take offense? Leave the old life and hope for the best. This girl would want someone like me, older than her, professional, tall. The problem is what we have pointed out: what's in it for me?

 

[GuitarVH]

Relevant meme:

 

[adek2]

Good video, basically shows how men are dropping out of society while women are excelling in college and the workforce, and as a result people can’t find a partner.

 

[Sandalwood Peak]

Good video, basically shows how men are dropping out of society while women are excelling in college and the workforce, and as a result people can’t find a partner.

An alarmist, black pill video.

This is basically the sunk cost fallacy at a civilizational level. An analogy to gambling you basically have the reality we lost our money, you have some people saying we can win it back if we do double or nothing, while others are saying all is lost. All is not lost. How can everything be lost? You're alive, you're inevitably going to die, there will be people left over. How is everything lost when it's literally the same as it always has been? What is the disaster here, western civilization is no longer as it once was?

I sympathize, it's upsetting that our people have squandered what our ancestors have built. If people truly feel that way then they should find ways to honor their ancestors otherwise it's just whining. The same way people whine about how there is no morals anymore but they continue to be non-religious and support liberal policies. Life isn't a buffet, you don't get to pick and choose how things ought to be.

You have this video saying men are dropping out of society, people are no longer reproducing, and hypergamy is is destroying the dating market. This is the problem with ideology, people don't know how to think outside the box, they cling to ideas.

Everything that is happening is suppose to happen. That's how life works. There's cause and effect.

Men are not dropping out of society, society has nothing to offer men. It's even questionable we even have a society any longer. What is the counter argument to this? We should give incentives to men to continue to keep this ship afloat? Don't get me wrong, I support completely people reproducing and starting a family but the reality is there's going to be collateral damage. It's inevitable. There is a price to pay as whole for what has transpired.

Population decline is a problem for politicians, its not an existential threat, they want to keep their Ponzi scheme going. I don't even understand this tragedy that perhaps there will be fewer people in the future. It's sad on an individual level, a lot of people will live and die essentially in solitude. Again, collateral damage. They can thank the previous generations.

This educated women not mating because of hypergamy is quite honestly ridiculous. That's their problem, not ours, and they're not going to be able to keep it up. First of all women do a lot of non-essential jobs, the only reason they even work is because men create these positions. Second of all it doesn't matter what women like or don't like, reality will dictate the rules. So all these women with high standards are a dying breed.

People want to act like we're experiencing the death of life itself.

 

[Blade Runner]

I sympathize, it's upsetting that our people have squandered what our ancestors have built. If people truly feel that way then they should find ways to honor their ancestors otherwise it's just whining. The same way people whine about how there is no morals anymore but they continue to be non-religious and support liberal policies. Life isn't a buffet, you don't get to pick and choose how things ought to be.

I agree. It's fine, but then people around here also should stop talking about the whole "be fruitful and multiply" thing. It's hard to multiple when you read the big picture of what you are posting, which is in general, quite accurate.

There is a price to pay as whole for what has transpired.

Absolutely.

I don't even understand this tragedy that perhaps there will be fewer people in the future. It's sad on an individual level, a lot of people will live and die essentially in solitude. Again, collateral damage. They can thank the previous generations.

I also agree that this is accurate, but of course not what people want to hear. I think the rub is that like communism, people think what happened for the last 80 years in some way was realistic, which it wasn't. It was technically real, but big picture was destined to fail, which I think is your point.

Most men and some women are collateral damage in this age, there is no doubt. When you realize that they inherited that fairly randomly, it seems really stupid or absurd. The but here is that they also inherited a convenient life with things others didn't have for most of the history of the world. So yeah, the worst part I think is that it takes quite a while for things to shake out and humans still only have the first third or half of their one lifetime to have kids.

 

[Jaszczurka]

Single female Orthodox convert, formerly secular, is frustrated with the fact that single Orthodox men desire young, fertile, traditional homemaking wives to have children with.

She views this as slavery and shaming to women. She makes alot of solid points like how we need to put Christ first and become the person worthy of what we desire in a spouse, but I don't see how she's missing the fact that these types of qualities are valuable ideals for men and why they are important.

She complains that men aren't financially stable and they live with their moms. That she doesn't want to submit to a man that is basically a boy that can't support her and a family. Sidenote: I don't see this in the Church at my local level. I see 0 young single women without kids, maybe a few younger men, and then 99% boomers and traditionalist generation.

But fair enough. I'm know there's alot of these types of men that aren't doing what the church teaches or what saints tell us about finding a spouse in a Godly manner. Immature little ortho bros. They want this ideal trad wife but they aren't shaping themselves to be an ideal trad husband.

What modern society defines as trad-women (and men) is a romanticization of knightly "court"ship manners where accomplished officers flattered the daughters of wealthy noblemen to get "huge tracts of land" that were worked by serfs, not him. Noblewomen didn't "work" because the work of a noble was to manage the family wealth and why would a husband want to put his wealth into his wife's hands to manage? But the rest of the women in the merchant and serf classes worked. This "traditional" notion of a man working outside of the home and providing for his wife to go shopping or do housework really only existed during a brief period of time when office and factory jobs were plentiful, such as the late 1800's until about 1970's or so when women entered the workforce en-masse and deflated wages.

When my father married my mother back in 1960, he didn't have his own place. He didn't get a "bachelor pad" to pick up women because a religious man didn't bring home girls back then for that. He did his best to save money and generate a trade for himself. A woman married a man for his potential and worked part-time to get things going until she got pregnant and then left her job and they struggled a bit with the kids until things took off.

Heck, this happened with me and my wife. I rented rooms to save money and had lost my job JUST before we were about to get married but since it was clear I would get a new job soon, we kept the wedding date which was about 5 months after my new job where I got a nice apartment furnished with (pretty good) hotel furniture I found behind a Holiday Inn that was remodeling where I was staying. Women didn't marry men at the finish line back then.

This woman above has this "independent woman" attitude where she asked that if she earns her own money, why should she submit to a man? Answer is:

Because God says so, that's why.

If such women think that men should "enjoy" paying for dinner because he's a "gentleman", then shouldn't she enjoy handing over her paycheck to him to decide the family affairs because she should enjoy being "submissive", yes?

 

[Blade Runner]

This woman above has this "independent woman" attitude where she asked that if she earns her own money, why should she submit to a man? Answer is:

Yes, and again the fix for this is getting married when you have value (that's why he marries you), not waiting for your monetary value later when you have no feminine value anymore. I think they miss this point a lot; they can still work but they have to realize that the solution is, again, putting marriage and family formation as priority #1, which means young marriage. When you really think about it the only reason not to do this is to have "fun" which really means just have sex (or at a minimum attention whore for an extended time) and try to win a different type of lottery/gamble later.

 

[JCSteel]

Good video, basically shows how men are dropping out of society while women are excelling in college and the workforce, and as a result people can’t find a partner.

I appreciate some of the things addressed in that video but it lumped together a lot of different problems and oversimplified...men dropping out while women are excelling is a problem especially since the media is dead set on building up women while they are totally ignoring the problem of what many men are going through. Just look at who is committing suicide. The video overstated some things; it mentioned dating apps, which are a real crap shoot and don't represent the best of what either men or women have to offer; I agree with other posters that the population decline isn't something the average person should even worry about.

 

[adek2]

I appreciate some of the things addressed in that video but it lumped together a lot of different problems and oversimplified...men dropping out while women are excelling is a problem especially since the media is dead set on building up women while they are totally ignoring the problem of what many men are going through. Just look at who is committing suicide. The video overstated some things; it mentioned dating apps, which are a real crap shoot and don't represent the best of what either men or women have to offer; I agree with other posters that the population decline isn't something the average person should even worry about.

So is the population decline not a problem for humanity?

 

[JCSteel]

So is the population decline not a problem for humanity?

It's a problem for humanity and people should marry and have kids. There are reasons why marriage and procreation isn't possible for some, and I don't think population decline should be an existential problem for individuals. Men not finding their purpose and failing at life is a huge problem but not just because they can't find a mate and repopulate the earth.

 

[Jaszczurka]

Yes, and again the fix for this is getting married when you have value (that's why he marries you), not waiting for your monetary value later when you have no feminine value anymore. I think they miss this point a lot; they can still work but they have to realize that the solution is, again, putting marriage and family formation as priority #1, which means young marriage. When you really think about it the only reason not to do this is to have "fun" which really means just have sex (or at a minimum attention whore for an extended time) and try to win a different type of lottery/gamble later.

Back in 1988, a woman friend of mine in college said that it was popular for girls of that time to say they "never want to get married" because it was too submissive. They wanted men to provide everything for them including even the purpose to have a family and her "job" was to be demanding and entitled.

This entitlement attitude only works on insecure men, of course, and it was ironic that the very woman who said that wound up marrying a (very good) friend of mine who was insecure and she was the first girlfriend he ever had. She wasn't good looking but she was smart enough to know that she had him hooked. They are still married and, IMO, he could have done WAY better BUT he's happy and has a family and raised them Christian so all's well that ends well, yes?

Young women CAN provide more than a pretty face or even cooking skills to get married young. They can do what has largely been outsourced to men which is develop social and networking skills to scout and develop relationships. Not get pre-marital sex but rather date with pure intent: Find out where marriagable men are, learn to flirt and approach them, have social skills to help men feel confident, appreciated, and valuable while also respecting and appreciating her. It would be like 1/100 as easy as men who learn PUA in that since few women now do this, that they'd be ahead of the pack. It astonished me how many corporate nuns in the 1990's wound up not only childless in their 30's, but also virgins.

 

[adek2]

It's a problem for humanity

So therefore the average person should care for it. I don’t see how a problem for humanity is something the average person shouldn’t care for.

 

[JCSteel]

So therefore the average person should care for it. I don’t see how a problem for humanity is something the average person shouldn’t care for.

Agreed but it's a distinct issue from all the other problems addressed the video, such as men failing at life, the media ignoring that while acting like women need to be propped up, the difficulties of finding the right spouse today, the prevalence of hookup culture, ect.

 

[adek2]

Agreed but it's a distinct issue from all the other problems addressed the video, such as men failing at life, the media ignoring that while acting like women need to be propped up, the difficulties of finding the right spouse today, the prevalence of hookup culture, ect.

Those are actually connected. You’re identifying the root causes.

 

[holgerdanske]

I appreciate some of the things addressed in that video but it lumped together a lot of different problems and oversimplified...men dropping out while women are excelling is a problem especially since the media is dead set on building up women while they are totally ignoring the problem of what many men are going through. Just look at who is committing suicide. The video overstated some things; it mentioned dating apps, which are a real crap shoot and don't represent the best of what either men or women have to offer; I agree with other posters that the population decline isn't something the average person should even worry about.

There is more context in this episode:

 

[JCSteel]

I don't want to minimize how much harder it is to be a man in today's culture, and ignore some of the relevant issues addressed in the video, but ultimately I'd argue that men fail in life because they are depressed or they suffer some kind of inner paralysis- it's a spiritual problem on an individual level. I speak from my own experience. There have always been prodigal sons, but now it is becoming an epidemic.

 

[Blade Runner]

Those are actually connected. You’re identifying the root causes.

Yes, they are all the same thing, in actuality - or linked, as you say. The reason I think "it doesn't matter" is not because it doesn't matter in the sense that it's less good overall in the world and stimulates a healthier lifestyle and environment, but rather that we are here with this many people, this many indifferent, low quality/dysgenic people because of largely fake and welfare/money printing/peace time post WWII nonsense. And we can't do anything about it. The answer for everyone is God, of course, but the answer for most who are average (and thus don't have a shot in this modern world regarding what they want even if they are remotely honest about their own rating or [sm] value, which they aren't) is especially such, since they were set up for failure. Life is absurd enough for family formation for male 7s at this point, which is the real blackpill for the others. The only good news might be that guys may start to just not care by age 50, I don't know.

Again, what are you going to do about women out of fertility, prime, overweight, on phones, etc while you sweat/get better/maximize your talents over 20 years? Nothing. It just makes things worse, if your point of view is on women and family formation - because you, on average, won't be in their line of sight.

 

[Blade Runner]

I don't want to minimize how much harder it is to be a man in today's culture, and ignore some of the relevant issues addressed in the video, but ultimately I'd argue that men fail in life because they are depressed or they suffer some kind of inner paralysis- it's a spiritual problem on an individual level. I speak from my own experience. There have always been prodigal sons, but now it is becoming an epidemic.

But no one wants to admit that there is a huge price to pay for this, which is both "economy tanks" and "young men without hope or future" use their energy to destroy the existing system. What if alt hist talks about how ridiculous it is that the older generation doesn't see this, since very soon the likelihood is that they'll get slaughtered by this thing they created, yet are so blind to see or admit. What's worse, they blame the young men. Man, talk about black pill...