The E. Michael Jones thread

Seth_Rose

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
One glaring issue I found with Green's argument is that he provides no direct proof of his claim that Christianity was created as controlled opposition. I find it amusing that he cites the supposed lack of historicity of Jesus' existence in secular sources, but I can't recall him citing any historical evidence of Christianity being a Jewish operation.

Were there councils and conferences held among Jews about inventing Christianity in the first century AD? Who according to Green wrote the gospels and the epistles? Are there any historical writings that support this? I'm not aware of any sources, but would be very keen to read them!
 

Mountaineer

 
Banned
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
One glaring issue I found with Green's argument is that he provides no direct proof of his claim that Christianity was created as controlled opposition. I find it amusing that he cites the supposed lack of historicity of Jesus' existence in secular sources, but I can't recall him citing any historical evidence of Christianity being a Jewish operation.

Were there councils and conferences held among Jews about inventing Christianity in the first century AD? Who according to Green wrote the gospels and the epistles? Are there any historical writings that support this? I'm not aware of any sources, but would be very keen to read them!
Exactly, it's a really stupid theory that falls on it's face when any serious scrutiny is applied.
 

911

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Adam Green is a good guy, but he often lacks discernment, and tends to be stubborn, bad combination. He showed a similar lack of judgment in 2019 when he believed that hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for covid was a Jewish financially-motivated scam, back when Vladimir Zelenko, a righteous Hassidic doctor from NY who was saving lives through HCQ, was one of its main advocates.

There is a better case of Christianity being a Roman conspiracy, theory that was floated by the likes of Joe Atwill in his book Caesar's Messiah, and widely relayed by other atheists. Of course it's just as flawed as Green's Jewish conspiracy theory, but at least it's better constructed.
 

Akaky Akakievitch

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
Most recent EMJ video w/ Gemma O'Doherty, red-pilled investigative journalist in Ireland:



I always appreciate a frank discussion about the times we're in with EMJ. Later on however, they discuss a dilemma for Catholics in the present day, because either RC's stay in the main body of the church and put up with all the post-modernist/NWO nonsense at the services, or one breaks from the RC church into a "cult" or more traditional form of RC (with Latin services), then risk becoming a "heretic" or enabling "schism", someone who is not in full communion with other Catholics, essentially no better than the Protestants. It seems like a real Catch-22 situation.

Well, there is always Orthodoxy..... I heard that quite recently, the first Orthodox monastery for over a thousand years has opened in Ireland. A sign that the tide is shifting in Ireland too perhaps, slowly but surely.
 

darknavigator

Woodpecker
Catholic
"Well, there is always Orthodoxy..... I heard that quite recently, the first Orthodox monastery for over a thousand years has opened in Ireland. A sign that the tide is shifting in Ireland too perhaps, slowly but surely."

The increase in Orthodoxy in Ireland is overwhelmingly due to the mass immigration of Orthodox Christians into Ireland since the early nineties (when the Irish economy started growing). The Catholic (and the mainstream Protestant churches) have gone out of their way to assist the Orthodox community e.g. making CATHOLIC churches available for the Orthodox to hold their services etc.
 

BasedBaker

Woodpecker
Trad Catholic
I find him to be on point with his criticisms and observations of the Jews, but very off target in other areas. His latest Gab post is a perfect example. But to be honest, when I heard his full throated support of Vatican II I started to tune him out. He gets very upset and critical of Archbishop Vigano when his name is brought up. Which naturally shows his siding with Pope Francis on the issues. When you realize how deep his ties run with Opus Dei he gets a little suspicion. That group is overflowing with modernists.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
I find him to be on point with his criticisms and observations of the Jews, but very off target in other areas. His latest Gab post is a perfect example. But to be honest, when I heard his full throated support of Vatican II I started to tune him out. He gets very upset and critical of Archbishop Vigano when his name is brought up. Which naturally shows his siding with Pope Francis on the issues. When you realize how deep his ties run with Opus Dei he gets a little suspicion. That group is overflowing with modernists.
That's very interesting. I generally see him as playing a role, but there are some classically catholic/stubborn things about EMJ that always made me suspicious. What is it that he doesn't like about Vigano? That guy is like an RVF red pill spokesperson to the world at this point, lol
 

BasedBaker

Woodpecker
Trad Catholic
That's very interesting. I generally see him as playing a role, but there are some classically catholic/stubborn things about EMJ that always made me suspicious. What is it that he doesn't like about Vigano? That guy is like an RVF red pill spokesperson to the world at this point, lol
I would say EMJ is not really classically Catholic. He's classic post-Vatican II Catholic.

Regarding Archbishop Vigano- he will attack him with vague statements about being out of his realm or wheelhouse and not his role. You can see the wince on his face when the Archbishop is brought up. Now, I must say I have not followed EMJ in months so maybe his tune has changed.

The one thing that always stuck out to me is how you see every Catholic to the right of Fr. James Martin at least voice some criticism of Pope Francis. At bare minimum for the climate nonsense he blathers. EMJ will stay very quite about anything concerning him and will quickly turn it to " Well the Jews over at the bank are up to...".

This was said in a Traditionalist group on Telegram this about EMJ and I think it sums him up perfectly:

"He's good generally with the politics of the culture wars....and helping people to understand the individuals and organisations that drive public opinion and hence the culture.



But when it comes to the problems within the catholic church he becomes very confused...



He admits the jews had a hand in vatican 2, but then he accepts it as legitimate council, which would mean the holy spirit was at work guiding the church.... not the jews.



So he ignores the Vatican 2 teachings on the jews, but then criticises anyone who ignores the Vatican 2 novus ordo teachings about the new mass.



He's an american novus ordo boomer that was never really taught the faith growing up, and he seems bent on not really understanding the faith now."

 

jonathanjones02

Pigeon
Catholic
EMJ is a boomer, although the very best kind like Steve Sailer. This means an enduring sympathy with St. MLK let’s all be nice philosophical, public square neutral soft liberalism. (To his credit, he has built bridges to black churches in South Bend.)

We all know this type, post Vatican II. He’s got one foot there, but one foot firmly with Groypers. It’s a generation thing.

One reason I respect Orthodoxy as a Catholic is the healthy ethno-nationalism, despite its many flaws in some situations, such as now.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
EMJ is a boomer, although the very best kind like Steve Sailer. This means an enduring sympathy with St. MLK let’s all be nice philosophical, public square neutral soft liberalism. (To his credit, he has built bridges to black churches in South Bend.)

We all know this type, post Vatican II. He’s got one foot there, but one foot firmly with Groypers. It’s a generation thing.

One reason I respect Orthodoxy as a Catholic is the healthy ethno-nationalism, despite its many flaws in some situations, such as now.
I think you are correct. The issue is that with Orthodox, the ethnic part is a double edge sword. It helped in maintaining the faith, but hurts evangelism and the teaching of the faith to our own even, since so few understand the languages used, especially in the diaspora (liturgical languages aren't even understood by the mother tongue modern/foreign language speakers). Beyond that, using the native tongue in foreign land is canon law, just see Ss. Cyril and Methodius for the obvious, historical application.

It's easy to criticize both RCs and protestants all day long, but at this point only the interested will seek and find the truth of Orthodoxy, so it's not worth the effort to continue doing it. In the end, I think a large portion of "Orthodox" apostasize anyway so the big picture will be to try to urge people to be faithful, and do our best to be examples, otherwise.
 

Paisios Harlan

Pigeon
Orthodox
On a recent Jay Dyer stream they mentioned that EMJ recently said that Muslims and Christians worship the same god. Does anyone know where he said it? I'd like to hear it directly from him.
 

Raskolnikov

Robin
Orthodox
On a recent Jay Dyer stream they mentioned that EMJ recently said that Muslims and Christians worship the same god. Does anyone know where he said it? I'd like to hear it directly from him.
EMJ has said much whackier stuff, he once also agreed on a podcast with a Hindu that the Hindu parallel to the Logos is valid.
EMJ has this boomer thing where he desperately wants to be friends with non-Whites and always cozies up to them. I mean, it's not necessarily coming from a bad place, he also wrote "Niggas In Denial" which is an excellent analysis on the destruction of black culture and the black family, but I rarely hear him confront religious questions head on, he always goes back to the Logos as some abstract principle which is everywhere and which Christianity is just pointing to.
It's a bit of a Catholic thing I guess, because Roman Catholics cannot really do presuppositional apologetics. The whole papism and uniate thing muddies the waters too much, so they always try to go via natural theology and the abstract Logos as the principle of order in the world, which tends to fail, because people can then just point to the fact that there might be different interpretations of whatever order presents itself.

What I will say about EMJ's point of view though, is that it has historically not been uncommon among certain Catholics, like Hilaire Belloc, to define Islam as a Christian heresy (I tend to agree to a certain point), as laid out in "The Great Heresies". So it's not like a scandalous new thing, the problem is just that it cedes ground to the heretical by saying they are technically worshipping the correct God. It's unorthodox, for sure.
 

Sitting Bull

Woodpecker
Trad Catholic
EMJ has this boomer thing where he desperately wants to be friends with non-Whites and always cozies up to them.

It's something that EMJ does, but I see nothing "desperate" or dishonest about it. As far I know, unlike whites from both left and right who pay non-whites to act like there is a wonderful union of minds, to make a one-sided love affair seem mutual (as when the French left subsidizes Islam, or when right-wight intellectual Alain Soral makes Whites pay to join his organization, and pays non-Whites to participate in its demonstrations, so that it looks wonderfully multi-cultural), EMJ has never paid a non-White person or organization to pretend he or she likes him.

In fact, unlike others who are just pretending, EMJ does a pretty good job of interacting and communicating with non-Whites (or non-Christians), in my view. Most right-wing "white nationalists" or left-wing "I'm not a racist" people seem rather desperate and isolated in comparison.
 

Raskolnikov

Robin
Orthodox
It's something that EMJ does, but I see nothing "desperate" or dishonest about it. As far I know, unlike whites from both left and right who pay non-whites to act like there is a wonderful union of minds, to make a one-sided love affair seem mutual (as when the French left subsidizes Islam, or when right-wight intellectual Alain Soral makes Whites pay to join his organization, and pays non-Whites to participate in its demonstrations, so that it looks wonderfully multi-cultural), EMJ has never paid a non-White person or organization to pretend he or she likes him.
Obviously, when I complain about EMJ, it's obviously in the realm of "I still admire him and think what he does is awesome". I got some of his signed books, saved many of his interviews, the whole deal. But he is a race denier, sometimes to the point of absurdity, and he has on more than one occasion shown that he separates Jesus from the Logos when he thinks it helps the conversation. I think you can very much insist on the specific Christian doctrine, like Jay Dyer, or insist on the relevance of race, like Nick Fuentes, without being unable to talk to people.

That being said, I love EMJ, I learned a lot from him, I especially love that he has recently taken on the Hologram, but I also hope he sees the light of Orthodoxy and stops this gnostic "category of the mind" babble when it comes to race/ancestry.
 

jonathanjones02

Pigeon
Catholic
In his arguments with David Duke, the main argument was that “ethnos needs Logos,” which is obviously true and essential.

The problem is minor, given his important evangelism, but I think understandable given his St. MLK generation. Namely, not recognizing and stating the reality of shared ancestry. Steve Sailer, despite his own boomerhood, has a good balance: race is real and important, but there is no determinism and all need God.
 
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