The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
Captain Gh said:
He's NOT wrong OP, however he's not right either! The PUA Biz is now Men's Development. Unless you go absolutely hardcore like SwoopTheWorld or Good Looking Loser, there's a place to be had. However it'll be hard since there's lots of competition. Prepare to be Youtubing a lot at first to develop an audience, then you can monetize.

Just like the YouTube coding community, the PUA one ABSOLUTELY ENJOY hearing about different Point of View... thus there's always gonna be $$$ in the field... but you must be IT to stand out.

Give you an example. Darius M used to be Darius M MGTOW. When YouTube killed the MGTOW channels, switched over to keep it going. Channel as stagnated since he's decent, but he's not that guy in the trenches like Roosh was.

If you do decide to jump in... you have to fallow the Sandman (MGTOW) model. Dude literally made video EVERY DAY for like 4-5 months, then asked his listeners to bring in questions (thus making sure to never run out of content)

I guess I wouldn't associate MGTOW with PUA, of even MGTOW with men's development. In fact from what I've seen most MGTOW is getting stuck in the permanent anger mode. Where's the money in that?

Regardless, MGTOW and PUA are equally likely to get demonetized fast these days. Even channels that aren't purely MGTOW get hobbled by the emperors at Google (Entrepreneurs in Cars, for example - he's seen his vids get demonetized before he's even done editing them).

Though you can still use social media for promotion so long as it's basically like mild television, making actual money in those subjects means an avenue free of the oligarchs at Silicon Valley. So given that, what can a new guy to the PUA scene offer that would be profitable, and in what format? Is that the best use of his time?

If it isn't potentially profitable, it really isn't a business.
 

lunchmoney

Woodpecker
TheFinalEpic said:
One thing that I've recently been doing is themeing the days of my week for certain things withing my businesses.

Monday is generally a day for learning new technologies and working on creative projects while learning, I usually schedule meetings for this day

Tuesday is generally a day for sales and I hammer the phone

Wednesday is Creative, meeting backup day, and a day to work on new projects that are coming down the pipeline

Thursday is Marketing, additional sales calls, online sale channel development, and email marketing

Friday is Looking to automate processes, studying the markets we're in, and catch up

Saturday is Creative, and I generally have my phone off until the evening. Writing and copy is generally hammered on this day.

Sunday is Planning for the week ahead and scheduling posts, blogs, videos, podcasts, and a slower day in general.

Anyone else doing something similar?

Haven't done this but will be implementing as I begin to brainstorm on a side hustle business. Trying to accomplish everything at once at times yields no results.
 
sterlingarcher said:
As entrepreneurs/business owners...

What keeps you awake at night?

What causes you pain?

What are you afraid of?

What humiliates you?

I am most afraid of putting months into a venture that doesn't pan out, and being stuck in a job for another year.
 

Captain Gh

Ostrich
Gold Member
SlickyBoy said:
Captain Gh said:
He's NOT wrong OP, however he's not right either! The PUA Biz is now Men's Development. Unless you go absolutely hardcore like SwoopTheWorld or Good Looking Loser, there's a place to be had. However it'll be hard since there's lots of competition. Prepare to be Youtubing a lot at first to develop an audience, then you can monetize.

Just like the YouTube coding community, the PUA one ABSOLUTELY ENJOY hearing about different Point of View... thus there's always gonna be $$$ in the field... but you must be IT to stand out.

Give you an example. Darius M used to be Darius M MGTOW. When YouTube killed the MGTOW channels, switched over to keep it going. Channel as stagnated since he's decent, but he's not that guy in the trenches like Roosh was.

If you do decide to jump in... you have to fallow the Sandman (MGTOW) model. Dude literally made video EVERY DAY for like 4-5 months, then asked his listeners to bring in questions (thus making sure to never run out of content)

I guess I wouldn't associate MGTOW with PUA, of even MGTOW with men's development. In fact from what I've seen most MGTOW is getting stuck in the permanent anger mode. Where's the money in that?

Regardless, MGTOW and PUA are equally likely to get demonetized fast these days. Even channels that aren't purely MGTOW get hobbled by the emperors at Google (Entrepreneurs in Cars, for example - he's seen his vids get demonetized before he's even done editing them).

Though you can still use social media for promotion so long as it's basically like mild television, making actual money in those subjects means an avenue free of the oligarchs at Silicon Valley. So given that, what can a new guy to the PUA scene offer that would be profitable, and in what format? Is that the best use of his time?

If it isn't potentially profitable, it really isn't a business.

I get where you're coming from! I was simply making a parallel between PUA & MGTOW from a YouTube level. There's A LOT of money on the 2 sides of the force... because they're based on Women... the love (Lust) and hatred (Criticism) of them! MGTOW have wised up - and dropped the acronym from the title of their video, and found ways around it to not trigger the YouTube Ban! Sandman & Third Flinging Monkey are still making bank from private sponsorships since they have the eyes & ears from the hardest demographic to reach (Men 18-49). ESPN pays 300 Mil / Year to the UFC to reach this demographic!

The PUA get away with it simply by mentioning how to reach when a woman does XYZ. Alpha Mentality averages about 200K per videos... and even a recent knockoff gets 25-30K per videos! Even without the YouTube $$$, private sponsorship will bring them money since the woke media can no longer reach men like they do! And keep in mind both groups are pulling in these # while not being heavily promoted by YouTube! Perhaps the most surprising community getting hit HARD is the Tech one. Eli the computer guy, and TechLead are on the Hot Seat since they started talking about how society is going on top of coding & computers... and some truly don't like it!
 

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
I'd avoid anything that identifies openly with MGTOW Talked to someone who went to a purely MGTOW forum recently and posted about having a girlfriend. He was attacked from all sides by a bunch of bitter neck beards just for that. Not a single one of them could see it his way - all stuck in the anger stage.

If that's the state of MGTOW now, glad I never went deeper than learning what the acronym meant. They want to hang around in their little quasi-gay club and bitch? Fine, have at it - I'm going downtown to get my knob polished.
 

antman333

Sparrow
Took a course on carpet cleaning today. I've been toying with the idea of entering the cleaning industry after seeing an acquaintance absolutely killing it with power washing. Showed up late to the first class so I can't qualify for iicrc certification, but apparently it's more of a marketing tool than anything else. There's a lot more to it than I realized (chemistry, technique) but in a multibillion dollar industry, all it takes is a sliver of that pie to make a lot of money.

I need a van
 
antman333 said:
I need a van

Get an old Ford E-250 off Craigslist. They go for like $3-6000, easy to maintain and will hold value when you go to sell in the future. Hell, you could even turn it into a part time travel van and take your business outside the area you live in...

Thats what I want to do if I ever travel around the US. Buy an old work van and turn it into a stealth camper.
 

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
louiebeans said:
antman333 said:
I need a van

Get an old Ford E-250 off Craigslist. They go for like $3-6000, easy to maintain and will hold value when you go to sell in the future. Hell, you could even turn it into a part time travel van and take your business outside the area you live in...

Thats what I want to do if I ever travel around the US. Buy an old work van and turn it into a stealth camper.

You wouldn't be the first:
 

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
Goldin Boy said:
Any suggestions/recommendations on apps or software to keep track of income and expenses? Price doesn't matter.

Depends what functions you need. You can get most basic income info (deposits, etc) from the app/web site provided by your bank. Ditto for expenses on a credit card - Amex is probably one of the better ones. If you need something for billing though those won't be enough.

If you're US based Quickbooks integrates with Turbotax, which is nice.
 

Donfitz007

Kingfisher
Hey Im planning an event and that potentially could bring in alot of business (upwards to millions of dollars). Without going into detail I would need Instgrams permission to use its name and hopefully support. How would I go about doing that? Is it a matter of who I know or a Matter of going through paperwork and such.

This idea could work without Instagram but with Instagram's help or even facebook, I could bring in much more money.
 

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
I know if you get above X numbers of followers on FB for your org/club/event they used to start to come at you with prices. Not sure how it is now but likely only got worse. Instagram is the same company and you can be sure they'd be happy to help for a price.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
How has the Chinese virus hit your business?

In the initial phase I lost affiliate revenue, but gained significantly in CPC ads, likely because more people were sitting at home on the internet.

Now it seems like that is flipping as more people return to work and maybe think they have money. Though my game is seasonal, where people spend more when it's cold in the northern hemisphere.
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
I’m finally looking at getting into internet marketing myself

My knack has always been team management, and I do have other income to support the venture.

Meaning my game would mainly be outsourcing.

Is it easy to just find/hire the best specialists - SEO - content - paid media - social media and just watch them do their things? There are plenty of sites to scope out the individual talent, and no shortage of workers around the globe, yeah?

Don’t know if I have the patience to learn the minutia of one avenue
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
Is it easy to just find/hire the best specialists - SEO - content - paid media - social media and just watch them do their things? There are plenty of sites to scope out the individual talent, and no shortage of workers around the globe, yeah?

If you are in to for the long haul you just need to focus on content. All the guys/companies I knew who focused on marketing tricks got washed away within a few years. Guys went from making a salary to nothing within months or a year.

I've never hired any SEO people, partly as I used to be one, but that was many years ago and I know little of what's happened in the last 12 years. But your overall SEO is basic:

keyword research
title tags and metas that will bring in the most clicks
legitimately work in all the related keywords onto your pages
make the site user-friendly
make the site quick
fix any crawling issues

Beyond that you will need links, which will come if you have good content. If you need to buy links, as your only or primary source, it's likely your venture will go down the pan at some point.

You could pay someone to do that, but I have no idea how to find decent people. And there really isn't much to it, so I think it's worth learning.

I don't know anything about social media. I've had huge traffic bursts, in excess of 1 million visit per day, from social media, but by and large I don't want to throw hours of my times into creating content for the evil empire, when I have 10+ years worth of work on my to do list for my own site.

When I have needed workers I have used Fiverr to find people in Eastern Europe. And some of the good ones I hired permanently.
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
If you are in to for the long haul you just need to focus on content. All the guys/companies I knew who focused on marketing tricks got washed away within a few years. Guys went from making a salary to nothing within months or a year.

I've never hired any SEO people, partly as I used to be one, but that was many years ago and I know little of what's happened in the last 12 years. But your overall SEO is basic:

keyword research
title tags and metas that will bring in the most clicks
legitimately work in all the related keywords onto your pages
make the site user-friendly
make the site quick
fix any crawling issues

Beyond that you will need links, which will come if you have good content. If you need to buy links, as your only or primary source, it's likely your venture will go down the pan at some point.

You could pay someone to do that, but I have no idea how to find decent people. And there really isn't much to it, so I think it's worth learning.

I don't know anything about social media. I've had huge traffic bursts, in excess of 1 million visit per day, from social media, but by and large I don't want to throw hours of my times into creating content for the evil empire, when I have 10+ years worth of work on my to do list for my own site.

When I have needed workers I have used Fiverr to find people in Eastern Europe. And some of the good ones I hired permanently.


What’s your opinion on buying existing profitable sites as a means of quick returns on investment if you know that side of the business?

Maybe you could buy reasonable non big dollar flipped sites at 20x (monthly multiples) what they are currently making on flippa or other sites?

If I could turn the loose 10 thousand into a set and forget it 400-500, it would be a solid add to my existing streams of income where I want to primarily live currently (Mexico).

It takes some studying though of current trends, the web sites traffic/content streams etc

Seems a quicker and safer return than some other options IMO
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
What’s your opinion on buying existing profitable sites as a means of quick returns on investment if you know that side of the business?

Maybe you could buy reasonable non big dollar flipped sites at 20x (monthly multiples) what they are currently making on flippa or other sites?

I don't have much experience with Flippa, though I have sold two sites on there. Both of them were utterly destroyed. One was left to expire the following year even though it was a LLL.org and the other had a very high quality link profile, but the purchaser just let it sit for years and it was hacked. In that time the rankings for it completely evaporated. He put a new site on it, shredding all the value and link equity of the old site and it never recovered. I sold another privately, to an SEO company, and they ruined it, even though I specifically told them not to do what they did to ruin it.

I knew another guy who ran a popular sports site. Must have made about $6K (inflation adjusted). He sold it for about $80K (ditto). It was sold to a fairly well-off guy who wanted something for his son to earn easy money. But they had no idea what they were doing and the guy who sold it had no idea of the SEO side. He was merely put on the path by someone who knew SEO. The new owners made a new site and deleted all the old content; all the old URLs gone. It went from X,XXX or more visits to 100 visits per day. The son hammered the site for four years with regular content, but they ruined the site due to lack of basic SEO knowledge. Including time maybe $160,000-200,000 down. The site still exists, but doesn't rank properly in Google, even for its own name.

I knew another guy, this was back in 2006-2009. His game was creating sites, using link spam to get rankings and then selling them on Flippa for around $10K. I assume the guys buying were low-knowledge and wanted easy income. I am fairly sure none of those sites exist now. I don't know what is going on with SEO today, but I assume there are still sellers like that on Flippa. You need to be able to appraise the link profile of the site to know how solid it is.

That guy was part of a circle of guys I knew who had various games to quickly extract money out of the search results. All of them are gone. Virtually all the SEOs I knew are out of business because it became to difficult to do SEO for small businesses. Some time around 2009 Google heavily shifted to ranking brands like Amazon. Before that you could easily game anything if you knew how. I had page one, often position one for [toys], [adult toys], [web design], [SEO], [SEM], [van insurance]. That lasted maybe 3 years before it was all gone. I knew many people who were annihilated in that period.

Directly after that I made a script to automatically bid on paid blogging opportunities for high page rank expired domains I bought for $10-50, rip a paid blog post they'd already paid for out of Yahoo site explorer. It was about 30 minutes work per day for $600 per day (inflation adjusted). Three months later Google annihilated me. All my domains were fried. I set up again, this time offering links privately, but with very small volume , much less than before. This was a sophisticated system, but it wasn't long until Google whacked that game.

Google have made it much harder to rank in search results for a guy with a site. And it's much more competitive than it is was in the 00s. The 00s were a landrush, when a bunch of nerds saw opportunities and some were able to make big money, in some cases for many years, but most of them are gone. I knew one guy who made 350,000 euros per month in the 00s, with one employee and spent 10 months of the year on holiday. He had very big SEO clients, like Booking.com, and was told by Google that he had to stay away from the big boys [because they wanted AdWords money from them]. But now he is 100% fried.

I think anything that is making small amounts of money and is set and forget is a high risk, similar to penny stocks. Any site that is not regularly added to and maintained is liable to be forgotten, decline or be flushed by Google. The lowest bar-to-entry that is solid is content curation: https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/web-content-curation-datasheet.35928/



@Handsome Creepy Eel may have other input. He's more up to date with the last ten years.
 

username

Ostrich
Gold Member
I haven't been on Flippa in a long time but last time I checked it out there were so many sites where the seller obviously hired a writer to churn out a bunch of articles/pages, they pump it with traffic, put some ads on it and then sell it for 10x monthly earnings or more. Once sold the seller stops the traffic pump and buyer will be very lucky if they even get their money back.

I would be very careful before buying anything from Flippa.
 

paninaro

Kingfisher
What’s your opinion on buying existing profitable sites as a means of quick returns on investment if you know that side of the business?

Maybe you could buy reasonable non big dollar flipped sites at 20x (monthly multiples) what they are currently making on flippa or other sites?

My friend used to work for Flippa, then went out on his own, so we've talked a lot about this. You really have to do your due diligence. Think of why a buyer is selling -- if it's so great and so little work, why sell it? There are legitimate reasons -- retiring, no time for it due other ventures, etc.. but just be careful out there.

As another poster mentioned, if the business model is solely web, relies heavily on SEO-optimized traffic, and you're not selling anything special, you can see your income drop to $0 in a matter of months as search rankings change. I think it's better to have a stable business that doesn't rely on SEO solely, but rather you're selling something sort of unique, even if it's in a niche market. That's more sustainable. For example, I know a company that specializes in selling turbocargers for cars. Just the turbo, for a bunch of different cars. They machine specially-optimized designs in-house, that are more efficient and give better performance. Who cares about SEO -- their product is quite unique.

Now, as for where to make money buying sites on Flippa, I think there's an opportunity in buying a bunch of low-revenue (under $100k/year) sites and building an economy of scale on the back-end of things. For example, if you hire a person do to customer service, they can just as easily do it for 1 site as they can for 10 sites, so you're spreading that overhead cost across more revenue. You can also benefit from volume, like if you're shipping products, you'll get better pricing with the shipping volume (and merchant processing fees) that 10 sites do compared to 1.

You can see this in the real world if you look at Subway (yes, the sandwich shop). The people doing well owning a Subway franchise typically own a few of them, not just one. This way, they can do all the back-end stuff (ordering supplies; accounting, taxes, licensing, inspections) using 1-2 people who can do it for all stores at once. With a single store, you only have one store to spread that overhead cost across.
 
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