The false dichotomy of West bad - Russia good

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
I'm probably getting banned for "shilling for globalist agenda" but I really can't wrap my head about seeing the echo chamber around here calling everything pro-Ukraine fake news and sharing just Russian narrative. So I, as probably one of few real Eastern Europeans here want to offer my perspective:

We all can agree that the West is quite rotten - everything is for sale, alphabet (LGBT...) propaganda and unbridled freedom but it seems that having no real experience with Russia or the communist regime (and you can't understand today's Russia without understanding USSR) you consider Russia the stronghold of Christianity/wellbeing/closest thing to a paradise on earth, while nothing could be further from the truth.

First, where do you think the western moral bankruptcy comes from? Aforementioned unbridled freedom? Conspiracy of elites? Maybe, but there are strong indicators that it is a direct product of Soviet subversion - (video of the presentation by a defected ex-KGB agent from 1983; if you can't be bothered to watch it, please read at least this short article https://unintendedconsequenc.es/bezmenovs-steps/ ).

I know, you will say: Russia is not USSR, past is past, Russia rebirthed like a phoenix from the ashes, now it's glorious but the USA is still rotten.
But is it? Most Russians have an idea of the glorious past of being the world's superpower, the brave Soviet army defeating Hitler (though many wouldn't know that Stalin and Hitler were initially buddies who divided eastern Europe between themselves). Unlike the other Eastern European nations that experienced a surge in the quality of life after the fall of the Eastern block, the changes weren't as distinct there. Oligarchs, corruption, and loss of national pride cause nostalgia for the days of the past. The last Putin's public appearance was at Luzhniki stadium on 18th March on the anniversary of the annexation of Crimea - do you think that it was an accident that remake of Burce Springteen's song, Made in the USSR was played? The song begins by listing parts of the USSR with Ukraine and Crimea in the very first place. For average Russians, it's not about the war they have a feeling of coming home and the soldiers were negatively surprised that they were not met with greetings (similarly to when the Soviets were "invited" to Czechoslovakia in 1968). Even Putin himself when he was asked what event he would change in Russian history said that the collapse of the USSR.

I'm not going to talk about the utter lack of freedom, oppression of Christians, and dissent under the communist regime, but why do you think that people always fled Russia and never moved in the opposite way? Even in the other thread, you are just talking about it...


If Russia is so great, why does it have an abortion rate 50 times as high as the morally corrupt USA? Why does it have 9 times as high murder as my country, the Czech Republic which is the most atheistic country in Europe? Why do they put people in jail for holding empty pieces of paper or saying literally "two words" (code word for "no (to) war") (btw, how do you like Russia when you watch videos like this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-woman-protest-blank-sign-arrest-b2035270.html )? Why do the families of top Russian officials live in the West? Why do you praise Christianity of a KGB agent who treats religion just as a means to the end as illustrated by the fact that he (Putin) personally opened multiple mosques? Why do you think that Russians would welcome you with open arms when talking about the "war" (as you do here) instead of the state-sanctioned term "special operation" is forbidden and will get you blocked in the best-case scenario (jailed in the worst one)?

I'm really sick of people here praising Khadyrov's Islamic cutthroats for killing Christian Ukrainians. You talk about Russians liberating Ukrainians from Nazis (which is ironic when they're led by a Jew and you talk all the time about evil globohomo Jewish elites) but how many Ukrainians do you personally know? I know plenty, no one is a nazi and they send money home (well, recently also the bulletproof vests) and I'm pretty sure these people home aren't nazis either. Do you know why is there even any talk about nazis? Because during the WW2 after Russia invaded the Second Polish Republic (Ukraine was part of it back then) some Ukrainians decided to collaborate with Germans because the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and Stalin causing Holodomor didn't help with these sentiments either. Nazi in Ukraine is simply anti-Russian - and Russia invading Ukraine was a pretty big nail to the coffin too - even Ukrainians who were supporting Russia are mostly against it now. Even Russia ended the narrative of fast operation to denazify Ukraine - now the majority of Ukrainians are said to be nazi and denazification will reportedly require multiple generations and dissolution of Ukraine as a nation-state ( see https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html - article from the Russian state-owned news agency)

I know that you'll post many pieces of "evidence" that Russia is liberating Ukrainians here and I'm wrong, but you should really watch the aforementioned Bezmenovs video - and then explain why you never post content from the refugees in Poland who can speak freely.


P.S.: why is canceling Russia warranting a whole thread criticizing it but the reason for that - Russia invading the sovereign country (and especially one whose sovereignty and borders they promised to respect in the Budapest memorandum) isn't considered a thousand times bigger issue?

P.S.2.: I saw you ridiculing reports of rapes by Russian soldiers - do you really think that this is the first war in history where rape doesn't occur?


TL;DR: just because one side is bad doesn't mean the other is good - there are no good guys and propaganda is done by both sides, it's just easier to see through towhen standing closer to the source. If you want to leave for a reasonably free country where the moral corruption hasn't got so far yet, go to Hungary or Poland, not to Russia
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
I would explain where the support of Russia is coming from. Is because there have been multiple prophecies that Russia as an Orthodox Tsarist country will be against the Antichrist. It will become a refuge for Orthodox people from all over. There will be the rebirth of the "New Russia", which will be just like the Russian Empire before 1917, not like the Soviet Union at all. Then the descendants of those who were expelled by the Bolsheviks will be able to finally return to the Russian land. And the Soviet Union itself was actually a product of external subversion of the Russian Empire, don't you know?


It is indeed true that Russia now struggles with many internal problems, such as abortion, de-ruralization, and de-industrialization. Such problems can be traced back to subversion as well, not something inherent to Russia as a country. Under the Tsars for instance, such internal problems didn't exist.


It is thought that reunification of the historical Russkie lands, together with decoupling from the Western system, would be the exact trigger for the rebirth of the New Russia as an Orthodox country finally. Keep in mind that Kiev, which used to be one of Russia's main holy cities, is not in Russia now. That's like Beijing not being part of China but part of Manchukuo. And modern Ukraine is the historical parallel to Manchukuo. No need to be black-pilled about Russia, because China also had it's century of Humiliation, but then it was rebirthed, and look at it now!

And don't listen to that clown jumping all over the stage like a western musician. It's not Russian music. They use Russian symbolica, but it's actually western music. Please listen to actual real Russian music instead. You see, the instruments are different, the melody is different, the costumes are different, the attitude in the music is different.

 
Last edited:

Good_Shepherd

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
But you personally dont live in Russia or Ukraine, being closer to those countries doesnt make what you say more credible, you are not an eye witness or a victim you still watching it all happen the same way we all have to. I hear you and not saying you not right but just because you live nearby doesnt mean you automatically right, what is Russians current stance right now ?
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I tend not to view things in a simplistic manner. I don't really know what to make of Putin, so that makes me lean towards not trusting him. But ultimately I haven't invested a great deal of effort in looking that closely into him. That being said the West is blatantly corrupt and the propaganda in this conflict is astonishing. I don't really support any side, I just hope and pray that there is peace soon. I try not to be too invested in it because it is spiritually disturbing to focus on this violence and war too much.
 

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
But you personally dont live in Russia or Ukraine, being closer to those countries doesnt make what you say more credible, you are not an eye witness or a victim you still watching it all happen the same way we all have to. I hear you and not saying you not right but just because you live nearby doesnt mean you automatically right, what is Russians current stance right now ?
I have Russian colleagues and Ukrainian friends and acquaintances. My parent's generation all had to learn Russian in school.
If you choose to ignore my thoughts, I'm completely fine with that - but if you want to make your own opinion just watch Bezmenov's presentation and put into translator the article from RIA Novosti I linked.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
I imagine some of it is also envy. Putin is the most competent statesman on the world stage by a fairly wide margin (Western ones are obvious oligarch puppets) and lacks the ethnic hatred that Western leaders have towards their own people. Some people will like him just because of that.

If you believe certain Orthodox seers, Russia will fall into a brutal civil war after World War 3 after which it will be born again as a great Orthodox nation.
 

Good_Shepherd

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
I have Russian colleagues and Ukrainian friends and acquaintances. My parent's generation all had to learn Russian in school.
If you choose to ignore my thoughts, I'm completely fine with that - but if you want to make your own opinion just watch Bezmenov's presentation and put into translator the article from RIA Novosti I linked.
All Im saying is just because you closer doesnt make what you saying more valid, the person who lived in newyork durinf 9/11 had to watch the same news that the rest of the world had to watch and just like we had to investigate so do they and you not even in Russia or Ukraine & even if you were Russia is a HUGE country you could be on the other side right next to Alaska, not disregarding your words just putting that out
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
I would rank Xi above Putin in terms of sheer competence running his country, probably due to his Chem Eng. background and his lifetime experience as a victim of the Cultural Revolution. Putin is a lawyer by trade and an intelligence analyst, he is a great leader but lacks the technical knowledge on subjects like economics and finance. Starting the war without protecting the ~$300 billion in US$ and Euro reserves was a monumental blunder.

To be fair to Putin though, his task of driving Russia away from the grip of the oligarchs and ending the neoliberal dystopia was a whole lot harder, what he has accomplished in the last two decades is truly monumental. And he is of course head and shoulder above any current or recent western leader.
 

Elipe

Ostrich
Protestant
More like: West = bad, therefore having more challenges to Western hegemony helps place additional checks on Western degeneracy. It's not that I'm pro-Russian, it's that I'm pro-multipolar-world. If Russia and China grow strong enough to challenge US supremacy, that weakens their ability to implement the Beast System in full.

See, my ideal vision of the US is that it shuts the heck up, becomes isolationist and America-First, and federal authority is broken so that the states regain a degree of sovereignty that they haven't had since 1865.

Russia embarrassing the West moves us closer to that goal because embarrassing the West is synonymous with embarrassing the US federal behemoth that holds the states of the U.S. hostage. Honestly, it's already sickening that for example, California gets 10% of the say in the system that governs over my state. I don't want California to have ANY say in what happens to my state. Imagine how an Ukrainian feels about Russia's influence on Ukraine. I feel that way about California, and yet California has that influence.
 

fireshark

Kingfisher
Other Christian
More like: West = bad, therefore having more challenges to Western hegemony helps place additional checks on Western degeneracy. It's not that I'm pro-Russian, it's that I'm pro-multipolar-world. If Russia and China grow strong enough to challenge US supremacy, that weakens their ability to implement the Beast System in full.

See, my ideal vision of the US is that it shuts the heck up, becomes isolationist and America-First, and federal authority is broken so that the states regain a degree of sovereignty that they haven't had since 1865.

Russia embarrassing the West moves us closer to that goal because embarrassing the West is synonymous with embarrassing the US federal behemoth that holds the states of the U.S. hostage. Honestly, it's already sickening that for example, California gets 10% of the say in the system that governs over my state. I don't want California to have ANY say in what happens to my state. Imagine how an Ukrainian feels about Russia's influence on Ukraine. I feel that way about California, and yet California has that influence.
Assuming that both sides aren't being played, (even if just to some extent) which I find extremely difficult to believe.

Having lived 2 years in China and speaking the language moderately well, I feel the same about how much China is praised as some kind of foil to the Western degeneracy as well. Though there are certainly real, tangible pros and cons to many different nations and cultures, the grass is always greener on the other side mentality is a very easy trap to fall into. I too was guilty of that as it was at least part of the impetus for me to go to China to begin with. No one forced me to go there or (attempt to) learn the language. It taught me an important lesson that reality is reality, evil is evil, and sin is sin, no matter where you go on Earth or who your so-called "strong based leaders" are.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
Two "P.S."'s and a TL;DR is a good tell for hysteric posting. Nobody here thinks Russia is perfect. It would be closer to perfect if abortion were criminalized and if they had a monarch. We just don't think Russia is committing obviously faked war crimes as in Bucha.
 

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
Two "P.S."'s and a TL;DR is a good tell for hysteric posting. Nobody here thinks Russia is perfect. It would be closer to perfect if abortion were criminalized and if they had a monarch. We just don't think Russia is committing obviously faked war crimes as in Bucha.
thanks for the thorough debunking :/

Why do you think these war crimes are faked if it's obvious?
 

Adrian

 
Banned
Orthodox Catechumen
If you want to leave for a reasonably free country where the moral corruption hasn't got so far yet, go to Hungary or Poland, not to Russia

You obviousl;y don't know very much about Hungary. It's one of the most cucked places Ive ever been. I was there early last year and the popultaion were policing themselves with masks, worn everywhere at all times, and with an evening curfew on the streets of the capital. It was like coming home to sanity returning to London. Yeah, that bad

Also, the Bezmenov interview? You really think RVF users haven't been familiar with that for years - are you completely new to all this or something?

Tell me, why doesn't Bezmenov mention the funding of the soviet system by the (((western bankers)))
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
Tell me, why doesn't Bezmenov mention the funding of the soviet system by the (((western bankers)))
I wonder who funded the Russian Revolution coup of 1917 against the Tsarist Russia, and why does it so much resemble the Ukraine Maidan of 2014, or the attempted coup against de-facto monarch of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, just last year? Lukashenko is however even more Chadder than Nikolai Romanov in my opinion, as he gave the gopniks what they deserved.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
thanks for the thorough debunking :/
you're welcome
Why do you think these war crimes are faked if it's obvious?
Bucha was liberated for days before there were any reports of a massacre. The West has a documented history of faking or lying about atrocities and attacks to get more nations involved in a war. Syria gas attacks, Saddam killing babies, Gulf of Tonkin incident, lying about the Katyn Massacre being done by the Germans, USS Maine, WMD's, the list never ends.
 

Adrian

 
Banned
Orthodox Catechumen
I wonder who funded the Russian Revolution coup of 1917 against the Tsarist Russia, and why does it so much resemble the Ukraine Maidan of 2014, or the attempted coup against de-facto monarch of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, just last year? Lukashenko is however even more Chadder than Nikolai Romanov in my opinion, as he gave the gopniks what they deserved.
Revolution is sexy, coup by western bankers, not so much

Think Che Guevara image replaced with Shlomo rubbing hands
 
  • Smile
Reactions: 911

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
Tell me, why doesn't Bezmenov mention the funding of the soviet system by the (((western bankers)))
because there weren't any. You wrongly assume that the source of evil is a Jewish conspiracy. Devil doesn't need humans to conspire to cause evil.

Bucha was liberated for days before there were any reports of a massacre.
no, it wasn't

The West has a documented history of faking or lying about atrocities and attacks to get more nations involved in a war. Syria gas attacks, Saddam killing babies, Gulf of Tonkin incident, lying about the Katyn Massacre being done by the Germans, USS Maine, WMD's, the list never ends.
since when is the West a singular entity? A gas attack in Syria happened, Gulf of Tonkin accident was a combination of real accident and reporting miscommunication, and who was claiming that Katyn was done by Germans?
 

Elipe

Ostrich
Protestant
Assuming that both sides aren't being played, (even if just to some extent) which I find extremely difficult to believe.

Having lived 2 years in China and speaking the language moderately well, I feel the same about how much China is praised as some kind of foil to the Western degeneracy as well. Though there are certainly real, tangible pros and cons to many different nations and cultures, the grass is always greener on the other side mentality is a very easy trap to fall into. I too was guilty of that as it was at least part of the impetus for me to go to China to begin with. No one forced me to go there or (attempt to) learn the language. It taught me an important lesson that reality is reality, evil is evil, and sin is sin, no matter where you go on Earth or who your so-called "strong based leaders" are.
I'm not praising China or Russia, I'm just saying that China and Russia are providing us with alternatives so that we don't suffer the solo-source problem of being locked into the US system where the USD is in hyperinflationary free-fall and the cancel culture sharks are hungrily eyeing your bank account. Also, being contested by peer powers means that the US will, in the future, have more pressure to worry about things other than pronouns and playing gender dress-up with surgery scalpels. Hard times make strong men!

Alright, sorry to disturb your psyops, I'll leave you alone.
Yeah, I was going to post a real response until he posted that.
 
Top