The false dichotomy of West bad - Russia good

Sherman

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
What is the alternative? We either will have a unipolar world or a multipolar world. If the current Western elites succeed in taking over the entire world (which is their committed goal), any freedoms you have now will disappear. It will be totalitarian control forever. If the local school counselor determines that your boy must become a girl, you will have no choice in the matter. In a multipolar world, there is still hope for freedom. Russia freeing itself from the financial system of the west is a hopeful development. I even pray for the success of China.
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
Maybe, but there are strong indicators that it is a direct product of Soviet subversion
Subversion went the other way.
I'm really sick of people here praising Khadyrov's Islamic cutthroats for killing Christian Ukrainians.
Kadyrov's soldiers killed Azov Neo-Nazis in Mariupol. They did not touch civilians.
You talk about Russians liberating Ukrainians from Nazis but how many Ukrainians do you personally know? I know plenty, no one is a nazi and they send money home (well, recently also the bulletproof vests) and I'm pretty sure these people home aren't nazis either.
Ukrainians aren't Nazis, but they are being ruled by a Nazi regime, just like Manchukuo, being led by an actor, a Puyi-like figure.
Because during the WW2 after Russia invaded the Second Polish Republic
No, after the Civil War Russia ceased to exist! It was Soviet Union, not Russia.
why is canceling Russia warranting a whole thread criticizing it but the reason for that
Haha, there are actually two three threads.
- Russia invading the sovereign country (and especially one whose sovereignty and borders they promised to respect in the Budapest memorandum) isn't considered a thousand times bigger issue?
Manchukuo wasn't a sovereign country, but a Japanese puppet state.
 
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911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
I'm probably getting banned for "shilling for globalist agenda" but I really can't wrap my head about seeing the echo chamber around here calling everything pro-Ukraine fake news and sharing just Russian narrative. So I, as probably one of few real Eastern Europeans here want to offer my perspective:

We all can agree that the West is quite rotten - everything is for sale, alphabet (LGBT...) propaganda and unbridled freedom but it seems that having no real experience with Russia or the communist regime (and you can't understand today's Russia without understanding USSR) you consider Russia the stronghold of Christianity/wellbeing/closest thing to a paradise on earth, while nothing could be further from the truth.

First, where do you think the western moral bankruptcy comes from? Aforementioned unbridled freedom? Conspiracy of elites? Maybe, but there are strong indicators that it is a direct product of Soviet subversion - (video of the presentation by a defected ex-KGB agent from 1983; if you can't be bothered to watch it, please read at least this short article https://unintendedconsequenc.es/bezmenovs-steps/ ).

I know, you will say: Russia is not USSR, past is past, Russia rebirthed like a phoenix from the ashes, now it's glorious but the USA is still rotten.
But is it? Most Russians have an idea of the glorious past of being the world's superpower, the brave Soviet army defeating Hitler (though many wouldn't know that Stalin and Hitler were initially buddies who divided eastern Europe between themselves). Unlike the other Eastern European nations that experienced a surge in the quality of life after the fall of the Eastern block, the changes weren't as distinct there. Oligarchs, corruption, and loss of national pride cause nostalgia for the days of the past. The last Putin's public appearance was at Luzhniki stadium on 18th March on the anniversary of the annexation of Crimea - do you think that it was an accident that remake of Burce Springteen's song, Made in the USSR was played? The song begins by listing parts of the USSR with Ukraine and Crimea in the very first place. For average Russians, it's not about the war they have a feeling of coming home and the soldiers were negatively surprised that they were not met with greetings (similarly to when the Soviets were "invited" to Czechoslovakia in 1968). Even Putin himself when he was asked what event he would change in Russian history said that the collapse of the USSR.

I'm not going to talk about the utter lack of freedom, oppression of Christians, and dissent under the communist regime, but why do you think that people always fled Russia and never moved in the opposite way? Even in the other thread, you are just talking about it...


If Russia is so great, why does it have an abortion rate 50 times as high as the morally corrupt USA? Why does it have 9 times as high murder as my country, the Czech Republic which is the most atheistic country in Europe? Why do they put people in jail for holding empty pieces of paper or saying literally "two words" (code word for "no (to) war") (btw, how do you like Russia when you watch videos like this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-woman-protest-blank-sign-arrest-b2035270.html )? Why do the families of top Russian officials live in the West? Why do you praise Christianity of a KGB agent who treats religion just as a means to the end as illustrated by the fact that he (Putin) personally opened multiple mosques? Why do you think that Russians would welcome you with open arms when talking about the "war" (as you do here) instead of the state-sanctioned term "special operation" is forbidden and will get you blocked in the best-case scenario (jailed in the worst one)?

I'm really sick of people here praising Khadyrov's Islamic cutthroats for killing Christian Ukrainians. You talk about Russians liberating Ukrainians from Nazis (which is ironic when they're led by a Jew and you talk all the time about evil globohomo Jewish elites) but how many Ukrainians do you personally know? I know plenty, no one is a nazi and they send money home (well, recently also the bulletproof vests) and I'm pretty sure these people home aren't nazis either. Do you know why is there even any talk about nazis? Because during the WW2 after Russia invaded the Second Polish Republic (Ukraine was part of it back then) some Ukrainians decided to collaborate with Germans because the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and Stalin causing Holodomor didn't help with these sentiments either. Nazi in Ukraine is simply anti-Russian - and Russia invading Ukraine was a pretty big nail to the coffin too - even Ukrainians who were supporting Russia are mostly against it now. Even Russia ended the narrative of fast operation to denazify Ukraine - now the majority of Ukrainians are said to be nazi and denazification will reportedly require multiple generations and dissolution of Ukraine as a nation-state ( see https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html - article from the Russian state-owned news agency)

I know that you'll post many pieces of "evidence" that Russia is liberating Ukrainians here and I'm wrong, but you should really watch the aforementioned Bezmenovs video - and then explain why you never post content from the refugees in Poland who can speak freely.


P.S.: why is canceling Russia warranting a whole thread criticizing it but the reason for that - Russia invading the sovereign country (and especially one whose sovereignty and borders they promised to respect in the Budapest memorandum) isn't considered a thousand times bigger issue?

P.S.2.: I saw you ridiculing reports of rapes by Russian soldiers - do you really think that this is the first war in history where rape doesn't occur?


TL;DR: just because one side is bad doesn't mean the other is good - there are no good guys and propaganda is done by both sides, it's just easier to see through towhen standing closer to the source. If you want to leave for a reasonably free country where the moral corruption hasn't got so far yet, go to Hungary or Poland, not to Russia


It's kind of hypocritical to call out Russia for cracking down on their anti-war protests when in Czechia, which is not even threatened and not in a state of war, you can be jailed for 3 years for writing social media posts in support of Russia:


The Czech Republic is the most degenerate, least religious, and most pozzed country in EE when it comes to understanding geopolitics, no EE country buys more deeply and gullibly into the western neoliberal myth. Prague is the world capital of pornography, and a hub for human trafficking, recalling its historic position as the hub of human trafficking in the middle ages, when it was the main hub for the slave trade in Central/Eastern Europe, a commerce held by the large local Jewish community.

The country has rapidly grown as the European capital of porn and is fast becoming on track to taking over from California as the world’s most prominent player in the adult film industry.

As well as being home to top studios such as Legal Porn and Czech AV, the capital, Prague, is now also home to the European headquarters of other linchpins of the porn industry such as Pornhub, Beeg and XVideos.
Other porn studios based in Prague include:
  • Prague Porn Productions
  • Bohem Productions.
  • Legal Porno
  • CzechAV
  • YourPorn Productions

There are fifteen studios in the city of Prague alone that create all-male content which certainly makes the city the capital of gay porn in Europe. The reputation of the country as being a leader in the adult industry is further cemented by the fact that the European Porn Summit is also held in Prague.

It's kind of weird to have a Czech criticizing Russia as being degenerate when Russia bans the homosexual agenda, while Czech Rep. is the "capital of gay porn", with the largest "gay pride" event in eastern Europe:

parade-of-prague-pride-festival-on-sunday-aug-18th-2012-in-prague-CMK1GA.jpg



You're also wildly wrong in the stats you provide, using outdated data on abortion and other social ills. The abortion rates in Russia have been falling sharply and those for young Russian women are now on par with those in the US, while you claim they are 50 times higher. I mean I understand being a bit off, but being off by a factor of 50-fold is outright lying.
1649283312260.png

Russia is experiencing a deep and sustained Christian revival under Putin, who has rebuilt 25,000 churches most of which were destroyed by the communists.


1649283874953.png


Wheras in Prague, most churches have been abandoned and many desecrated, like this church converted into a disco, notice the satanic reversed cross:

cz-1016-1466998-front.jpg


Modern "art" in Prague, this is not an exhibit, it's a public work in the middle of a city square:

120602_st_vitus_cathedral_hell_club_prague_cross_club_steampunk_bar_parties_4.jpg


Prague also has the largest satanist community in eastern Europe, both because it is a cultural beachhead for western degeneracy, and also because it draws on its deep local Jewish occult roots. Prague is the site of the original golem legend.

1649282378287.png


Your effort to discredit Russia reflects the deep Czech neoliberal bias towards that country, it is at once superficial and unfortunate.
 
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Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
Ukrainians aren't Nazis, but they are being ruled by a Nazi regime, just like Manchukuo, being led by an actor, a Puyi-like figure.
why are you ignoring https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html ? Do you know it better than official Russian-state media?

Manchukuo wasn't a sovereign country, but a Japanese puppet state.
wtf? who's talking about Manchukuo? we are talking about Ukraine. Russia promised to respect its soveregnity and borders in exchange for surrendering its nuclear arsenal, now they have broken the treaty they signed.
 

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
It's kind of hypocritical to call out Russia for cracking down on their anti-war protests when in Czechia, which is not even threatened and not in a state of war, you can be jailed for 3 years for writing social media posts in support of Russia:
it would be hypocritical if the Russian penalty for spreading "fake news" about the war wasn't 5 times as high. Russia isn't in a state of war either by the words of their own officials ;)

The fact that the abortion rate is falling doesn't contradict the fact that it's still insanely high and 50 times as high as in the US (according to statista.com )

I know about the problems of Czechia more than well, but thanks anyway. It has to be pretty disappointing to know that even so corrupt country doesn't kill the babies as much as Russia though, I guess...
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
In my opinion, the energy used in this thread could drive an electric skateboard with an adult hipster for 183 meters so far.

It was kind of worth it to put OP in place, because it was a very prime example of EE neoliberal naive attitude towards Russia, he checks all the marks as far as anti-Russian talking points, so it;s worth refuting them.

The worst and most obvious one is the conflation of bolshevik USSR with modern day Russia. He doesn't realize that the demoralization campaign that Berezmov was outlining is the one that has been aimed at the West and EE youth alike by the neoliberal agenda, which is far more sophisticated and successful than the outdated communist package.
 
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Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
wtf? who's talking about Manchukuo? we are talking about Ukraine.
The situation with Manchukuo is a good analogy tot he situation with Ukraine right now.

Russia is now in a state similar to the late stage Qing Dynasty, having lots of potential to become a great power, but population poor and government weak, and is being viewed by the West as a potential colony. In additionally the Ukraine can be described as a Western puppet state just like Manchukuo was a Japanese puppet state. Indeed, Ukraine is an indivisible part of Russia, which so happens to be occupied at the present moment by a government which is run by a literal actor, a Puyi-like figure.

Manchuria has always been a part of China, just like Ukraine has always been a part of Russia. The Manchukuo government was not legitimate because it was controlled by the Japanese. It was in fact an anti-Chinese government, collaborators, only working to further help Japanese Empire conquer all of China.
 

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
The worst and most obvious one is the conflation of bolshevik USSR with modern day Russia.
I'm not the one conflating it, Putin and Russians are.
Or do you say that I'm lying about the Made in USSR being played at the event? Or about Putin decrying the fall of the USSR? You don't need to listen to me, it's enough to listen to them.
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
it would be hypocritical if the Russian penalty for spreading "fake news" about the war wasn't 5 times as high. Russia isn't in a state of war either by the words of their own officials ;)

The fact that the abortion rate is falling doesn't contradict the fact that it's still insanely high and 50 times as high as in the US (according to statista.com )

I know about the problems of Czechia more than well, but thanks anyway. It has to be pretty disappointing to know that even so corrupt country doesn't kill the babies as much as Russia though, I guess...

Instead of doubling down on your false anti-Russian propaganda, you should have made an effort to check your claim after I've told you it's wildly incorrect. Current Russian abortion figures are now similar to those in the US, and are still dropping:

1649285213449.png
1649285382391.png

1649285448119.png

 

Pilgrim of the East

 
Banned
Protestant
Instead of doubling down on your false anti-Russian propaganda, you should have made an effort to check your claim after I've told you it's wildly incorrect. Current Russian abortion figures are now similar to those in the US, and are still dropping:

thanks for pointing out my error, I did mix up the abortion rate for USA with the number of abortions in thousands for Russia.

In the Czech republic whose corruption you hammered down so well is the rate about half though
 

Nelson12

Sparrow
Catholic
I see they have a Catholic Church in both Belarus and Russia so I’m safe if I have to leave. I’ll learn Russian if I have to. :)
 

fireshark

Kingfisher
Other Christian
What is the alternative? We either will have a unipolar world or a multipolar world. If the current Western elites succeed in taking over the entire world (which is their committed goal), any freedoms you have now will disappear. It will be totalitarian control forever. If the local school counselor determines that your boy must become a girl, you will have no choice in the matter. In a multipolar world, there is still hope for freedom. Russia freeing itself from the financial system of the west is a hopeful development. I even pray for the success of China.
You are more than welcome to go live in China right now and enjoy your freedom. It's not what you seem to think it is.
 

Nelson12

Sparrow
Catholic
The Catholic church is almost everywhere, but why would you come there if you could go to Poland?
I‘m English but would like to learn another UN language that more people speak. I’m learning Spanish but given covid restrictions in Latin America and Central America I’m not so sure.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Ostrich
Orthodox
@Pilgrim of the East I like your original post because you raise some good points. At the same time, you have a typical Eastern European hatred of Russia -- completely irrational. Russia is no longer the USSR, and some of your points are just rants.

I agree, we have to be careful as Orthodox Christians. Putin is not Christ, and we should never hope for worldly solutions to our problems through Strongmen like him.

And yes, Russia has problems, including a high abortion rate. Also, 38% of the country is either atheist or has no religion. There is suppression of free speech. There is growing Islamization. All of this is very bad.

God bless you, and let us pray for peace.
 

Elipe

Ostrich
Protestant
You are more than welcome to go live in China right now and enjoy your freedom. It's not what you seem to think it is.
You misunderstood. Sherman doesn't want to go live in China. He wants China to be a thorn in the side of the freedom-denying world order by redirecting their energy away from people like him and toward dealing with China. China isn't our friend, but it is an enemy of our enemy.
 

GuitarVH

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Gulf of Tonkin accident was a combination of real accident and reporting miscommunication

Aug 1964 - George Morrison, Commander of the Carrier Division of US naval forces during the Gulf of Tonkin non-incident. This was the casus belli justification of the Vietnam War, guaranteeing the death, maiming and lifelong psychological trauma of a generation of American soldiers and the same for millions of Vietnamese. Traumatic psyop set in motion.

July 1965 - Jim Morrison, son of Commander George Morrison, forms a rock band and without any singing background proceeds to become one of the most famous singers in the world, spearheading the psychedelic hippy era, promoting LSD, drug use and general degeneracy and lewd behavior to a generation of youth known as the baby boomers. Traumatic psyop propelled into motion.

July 2, 1971 - George Morrison (the father) is the keynote speaker at the decommissioning ceremony for the carrier Bon Homme Richard, his first ship as an admiral, in Washington D.C.

July 3, 1971 - Jim Morrison (the son) "dies" in Paris at the age of 27.

MISSION COMPLETE

50 years later, the destructive force of the generational psyops this father and son helped to set in motion are still being felt.
 
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MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
It's kind of hypocritical to call out Russia for cracking down on their anti-war protests when in Czechia, which is not even threatened and not in a state of war, you can be jailed for 3 years for writing social media posts in support of Russia:


The Czech Republic is the most degenerate, least religious, and most pozzed country in EE when it comes to understanding geopolitics, no EE country buys more deeply and gullibly into the western neoliberal myth. Prague is the world capital of pornography, and a hub for human trafficking, recalling its historic position as the hub of human trafficking in the middle ages, when it was the main hub for the slave trade in Central/Eastern Europe, a commerce held by the large local Jewish community.





It's kind of weird to have a Czech criticizing Russia as being degenerate when Russia bans the homosexual agenda, while Czech Rep. is the "capital of gay porn", with the largest "gay pride" event in eastern Europe:

parade-of-prague-pride-festival-on-sunday-aug-18th-2012-in-prague-CMK1GA.jpg



You're also wildly wrong in the stats you provide, using outdated data on abortion and other social ills. The abortion rates in Russia have been falling sharply and those for young Russian women are now on par with those in the US, while you claim they are 50 times higher. I mean I understand being a bit off, but being off by a factor of 50-fold is outright lying.
View attachment 40051

Russia is experiencing a deep and sustained Christian revival under Putin, who has rebuilt 25,000 churches most of which were destroyed by the communists.


View attachment 40052


Wheras in Prague, most churches have been abandoned and many desecrated, like this church converted into a disco, notice the satanic reversed cross:

cz-1016-1466998-front.jpg


Modern "art" in Prague, this is not an exhibit, it's a public work in the middle of a city square:

120602_st_vitus_cathedral_hell_club_prague_cross_club_steampunk_bar_parties_4.jpg


Prague also has the largest satanist community in eastern Europe, both because it is a cultural beachhead for western degeneracy, and also because it draws on its deep local Jewish occult roots. Prague is the site of the original golem legend.

View attachment 40049


Your effort to discredit Russia reflects the deep Czech neoliberal bias towards that country, it is at once superficial and unfortunate.
It is good Putin supports Orthodox Christians. However, there are two huge concerns in the article mentioned:

1) the government should allow Jehovah Witness members to worship peacefully.

"According to the those at the meeting, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, a group once persecuted by the Nazis for their strict adherence to pacifism, have now been labelled a threat to society here, too; driven underground last April when the Russian Supreme Court seized all their property, declaring the group “extremist”."

2) Also, it seems that people's freedom to criticize government policies is being violated:

"But it’s risky to openly challenge such developments as Yevegeny Lebedev discovered last November. He told us that his home and those of 11 others were stormed by masked police officers in midnight raids, “They bust in shouting, ‘Down on the floor!’ Somebody threw me to the floor. I was like that for 20 minutes, my kids crying.”

The officers were investigating a possible violation of yet another new law, which has the backing of the Orthodox Church. In this case, making it a criminal offence to “insult the feelings of religious believers”."
 
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