The Gab thread

Pendleton

Pelican
I don't understand these expectations that Gab should become stable in a few days or even weeks. A typical company, even a megacorporation, expands by simply clicking "upgrade package" and entering their CVC number. Having to organize the expansion from scratch all by yourself is a lot more difficult.
And he has zero access to capital markets. He can't even get donations in a form other than checks and bitcoin. I am actually surprised at how well the site has been working, all things considered.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member

Gab accused of being a honeypot:

Screen-Shot-2021-01-16-at-4.08.42-AM.png
 
It's a corollary of the "porn = art" argument. At the very beginning when porn was still illegal, they had to make complicated "highbrow" movies with a very brief porn scene in it to make their point.
Or, apparently movies about the Holocaust. From Wikipedia:

[The 1964 film " The Pawnbroker"] was the first produced entirely in the United States to deal with the Holocaust from the viewpoint of a survivor. It earned international acclaim for Rob Steiger, launching his career as an A-list actor. It was among the first American films to feature a confirmed homosexual character, nudity during the Production Code, and was the first film featuring bare breasts to receive Production Code approval. Although it was publicly announced to be a special exception, the controversy proved to be first of similar major challenges to the Code that ultimately led to its abrogation.

Gotta love those tractors.
 

Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
Gab accused of being a honeypot:
Well, I've heard enough. Won't be signing up for gab.

Really, what we need is someone to create a messaging protocol, the way SMTP is the protocol for email and HTML is the protocol for web pages. There needs to be a simple messaging protocol, and a way to implement encryption into it, and then there is no need for hosting or the associated costs, which require money which will almost certainly come from spying on the messages themselves (as twitter, whatsapp, etc do).

It looks like this has already been done with something called Jabber, which I have vaguely heard of.
I used to use this program called Pidgen back when there were a bunch of different competing chat protocols (AOL, MSN, yahoo, ICQ etc) because jabber was one program that would consolidate them all. Pidgen is the main program for using the Jabber protocol.

We need to get to a system where there is nothing for law enforcement to subpoena. Gab cooperates with law enforcement because gab knows more than it should about your messaging. Whether it is time / date / username info or they can actually read the plain text of your messages, it's stuff they shouldn't know in the first place. The article above makes a good point that apple refused to cooperate with requests involving "terrorists" (I dispute that label) but what is not mentioned is that Apple has designed a lot of its recent stuff so that it doesn't *have* much information to give to authorities, even if it wanted to. That's how it should be.

In the old days, the phone company didn't have the ability to easily and readily listen to your conversations, which is why the FBI had to go climb phone poles and clip on to the wires.

The downside would be on such a system one could post pornography and more disturbing stuff, and of course "they" would, in order to make it an undesirable service, or even to SHUT IT DOWN. I don't know how to get around that. Personally, I would just choose to avoid accounts that are posting that stuff. It's all freely available online already through a number of (((sources))). But it might be too much for the normie user to stomach. I really don't know why pidgen/jabber hasn't taken off already.
 
Gab isn't a honeypot just because they turn over illegal content to police who ask about it. There are all kinds of bad actors out there, both organic and artificial, and the fact that Torba turns that stuff over to the cops is no problem for me because I'm not posting or encouraging anything illegal in the first place. In fact I have openly told my audience on YouTube that if they email me any hint of something illegal, I will send it to police immediately. To me that's just good "public platform" hygiene and preventative measures.
 

username

Ostrich
Gold Member
Really, what we need is someone to create a messaging protocol, the way SMTP is the protocol for email and HTML is the protocol for web pages. There needs to be a simple messaging protocol, and a way to implement encryption into it, and then there is no need for hosting or the associated costs, which require money which will almost certainly come from spying on the messages themselves (as twitter, whatsapp, etc do).

Yes definitely need something like this.

We need to get to a system where there is nothing for law enforcement to subpoena.

Agree. If there is no centralized host then there is no one to remove it.
 

Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
Gab isn't a honeypot just because they turn over illegal content to police who ask about it. There are all kinds of bad actors out there, both organic and artificial, and the fact that Torba turns that stuff over to the cops is no problem for me because I'm not posting or encouraging anything illegal in the first place. In fact I have openly told my audience on YouTube that if they email me any hint of something illegal, I will send it to police immediately. To me that's just good "public platform" hygiene and preventative measures.
The question is what type of content is Gab turning over?
I suspect if we saw the requests, it would be a whole lot more "hate speech" than "here is how to build a bomb"


Facebook reports 173,592 investigations of illegal content in the first half of 2020. That's 951 a day, or almost 40 an hour.
Considering that facebook won't even let you post a lot of content (it will erase certain words or websites if you try to type them, and similarly nude images cannot be posted), I find it hard to believe that a thousand people a day are "breaking the law" in the sense that you are I are concerned about, on their facebook posts.

Unless you include derogatory language or political speech, I don't see how they can get to that number. If a thousand people a day are posting violent threats and plans for explosives, I think we would have seen a US capital storming a long time ago. A thousand people a day using wrongspeak sounds very possible, but I can't believe there are that many "crimes" going on.

Again, the problem with gab isn't that he is obeying a request from the FBI. The problem is the FBI being the arbiter of what people can and can't say. The solution is to put gab in a position (like apple does) where they have little to nothing useful that they could give the FBI when asked.

You can see from the graph above, that the illegal activity seems to be skyrocketing on facebook. That's odd since it's becoming more censored and locked down every year, and one would expect the opposite. The obvious conclusion is it's not actual laws being broken, but just accelerating requests from law encorcement to spy on people.

You know what stat I'd like to see? How many of those 173,592 cases lead to either arrests or convictions. I wouldn't be surprised if it's less than 1%, with the remainder of cases just used for spying and surveillance and blacklisting.
 
The question is what type of content is Gab turning over?
I suspect if we saw the requests, it would be a whole lot more "hate speech" than "here is how to build a bomb"


Facebook reports 173,592 investigations of illegal content in the first half of 2020. That's 951 a day, or almost 40 an hour.
Considering that facebook won't even let you post a lot of content (it will erase certain words or websites if you try to type them, and similarly nude images cannot be posted), I find it hard to believe that a thousand people a day are "breaking the law" in the sense that you are I are concerned about, on their facebook posts.

Unless you include derogatory language or political speech, I don't see how they can get to that number. If a thousand people a day are posting violent threats and plans for explosives, I think we would have seen a US capital storming a long time ago. A thousand people a day using wrongspeak sounds very possible, but I can't believe there are that many "crimes" going on.

Again, the problem with gab isn't that he is obeying a request from the FBI. The problem is the FBI being the arbiter of what people can and can't say. The solution is to put gab in a position (like apple does) where they have little to nothing useful that they could give the FBI when asked.

You can see from the graph above, that the illegal activity seems to be skyrocketing on facebook. That's odd since it's becoming more censored and locked down every year, and one would expect the opposite. The obvious conclusion is it's not actual laws being broken, but just accelerating requests from law encorcement to spy on people.

You know what stat I'd like to see? How many of those 173,592 cases lead to either arrests or convictions. I wouldn't be surprised if it's less than 1%, with the remainder of cases just used for spying and surveillance and blacklisting.


It's more likely stuff like this as well, if the UK went to such an extent to hide the face of a paedophile, what else would they hide?
 
Gab isn't a honeypot just because they turn over illegal content to police who ask about it. There are all kinds of bad actors out there, both organic and artificial, and the fact that Torba turns that stuff over to the cops is no problem for me because I'm not posting or encouraging anything illegal in the first place. In fact I have openly told my audience on YouTube that if they email me any hint of something illegal, I will send it to police immediately. To me that's just good "public platform" hygiene and preventative measures.

Yes, exactly this.

I run one direct to consumer business, and I help dozens more with marketing. We ask for and use our customers' data. Some of the guys here need to get over this bizarre obsession with all data collection being the work of the Devil. I can assure you that not only are we careful with the data, we also have their best interests in mind (such that they are aligned with what we can offer them). And -- everyone I work with at least -- knows it's easier to do business and sell with people who already desperately want what we have. We are not some Ed Bernays / Zeitgeist paranoia level string-pullers with unlimited budgets convincing teetotalers to drink, etc.

Now, about data sharing...

I'm not really comfortable sharing anything with cops, period. That is a personal thing. However here are two additional things to consider:

1. If a customer or audience member emailed me and said something like "thanks for the wine tips, I am going to murder a busload of school children tomorrow!", while I wouldn't take them totally seriously, I feel like I may be held liable in this bizarre society for not reporting it. Even if it's just a goofball making a sloppy joke, they have just potentially exposed me to harassment by the law. So screw them for doing that.

2. Forget business and data and digital altogether. If someone came to your backyard BBQ and announced they were going to assemble a gang to torch your neighbors' house, you are telling me you wouldn't want to escalate on that threat? Why is it suddenly different online?
 

kel

Ostrich
Or, apparently movies about the Holocaust. From Wikipedia:

[The 1964 film " The Pawnbroker"] was the first produced entirely in the United States to deal with the Holocaust from the viewpoint of a survivor. It earned international acclaim for Rob Steiger, launching his career as an A-list actor. It was among the first American films to feature a confirmed homosexual character, nudity during the Production Code, and was the first film featuring bare breasts to receive Production Code approval. Although it was publicly announced to be a special exception, the controversy proved to be first of similar major challenges to the Code that ultimately led to its abrogation.

Gotta love those tractors.
Blackpilled is like Stonetoss, there's one for everything:

 

godfather dust

Hummingbird
Gold Member
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