The Gay Pride Month Thread

The only violence we are called to as Christians is violent destruction of our own sin by the power of God.

Calling for violence against other human beings in the world is anti-Christian and shows a lack of knowledge, or lack of care about what Christ taught.

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things." Romans 2:1. I have never personally been to Sodom but I spent a lot of time in the "surrounding cities" of fornication and lust and regrettably still do, mentally, at times. Not just Sodom, but the surrounding cities also, were destroyed by fire. So when you wish for God's judgment to fall on sinners, and even hasten to bring it about by yourself in your ignorance, you may be calling down fire on your own head as well, since Christ commanded us to love our enemies and wait for the day of His wrathful judgment, not try to execute our own.

"Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God." James 1:19-20

"Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?'” Matthew 26:50b-54

"And when those who were around him saw what would follow, they said, 'Lord, shall we strike with the sword?' And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus said, 'No more of this!' And he touched his ear and healed him." Luke 22:49-51

I am not saying we should condone perversion or any other crime against God, but the place to begin fighting those is within ourselves. Unless the man with the rosary is without sin and thereby worthy to cast the first stone, he would be better off to follow the command of God: "Be angry, and do not sin; ponder in your own hearts on your beds, and be silent." Psalm 4:4

The kingdom of God is not of this world, and we are mistaken in trying to execute our own judgment and punishment, especially since we understand so little of what is actually going on.

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” John 18:36

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12
Rather than 'fought' I should have written 'opposed', and that was sloppy writing on my part. Surely opposition does not constitute taking up the sword?

I should have reserved judgement about the rosary video, as I understand now that I had not heard well what the man said, nor do I know the details of the encounter.
 

Elipe

Pelican
The only violence we are called to as Christians is violent destruction of our own sin by the power of God.

Calling for violence against other human beings in the world is anti-Christian and shows a lack of knowledge, or lack of care about what Christ taught.

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things." Romans 2:1. I have never personally been to Sodom but I spent a lot of time in the "surrounding cities" of fornication and lust and regrettably still do, mentally, at times. Not just Sodom, but the surrounding cities also, were destroyed by fire. So when you wish for God's judgment to fall on sinners, and even hasten to bring it about by yourself in your ignorance, you may be calling down fire on your own head as well, since Christ commanded us to love our enemies and wait for the day of His wrathful judgment, not try to execute our own.

"Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God." James 1:19-20

"Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?'” Matthew 26:50b-54

"And when those who were around him saw what would follow, they said, 'Lord, shall we strike with the sword?' And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus said, 'No more of this!' And he touched his ear and healed him." Luke 22:49-51

I am not saying we should condone perversion or any other crime against God, but the place to begin fighting those is within ourselves. Unless the man with the rosary is without sin and thereby worthy to cast the first stone, he would be better off to follow the command of God: "Be angry, and do not sin; ponder in your own hearts on your beds, and be silent." Psalm 4:4

The kingdom of God is not of this world, and we are mistaken in trying to execute our own judgment and punishment, especially since we understand so little of what is actually going on.

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” John 18:36

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12
You're right. We're ignorant, and we don't know if God has a plan for turning everything back right side up. Maybe WW3 with China and Russia breaks out and that becomes a vehicle for collapsing Globohomo/NWO. Globohomo is also in a financially precarious position where the US Dollar is on the verge of collapsing. Those would definitely be likely vehicles for God's aid, and if so, then yes, the correct course of action is to be patient with long-suffering forbearance.

But the West was formerly Christian, and so fell under the jurisdiction of government by Christian humans, which means that Christians were in the position of passing legal, divinely sanctioned judgement (Romans 13:1-7). Yet from the behavior of our governments, it is clear that our governments do not satisfy Romans 13:3-4. They do not punish the evildoers and leave the righteous alone, as this passage says they should. Are we evildoers for refusing to bake a gay wedding cake? Are we evildoers for refusing to use a false pronoun for someone? Are we evildoers for refusing to have corrupt big pharmaceutical corporations meddle with our cellular DNA? Indeed, if the government adopted the Mark of the Beast and demanded that you took it, would you be an evildoer?

Clearly not. So what does it mean when the government has lost its legitimacy? To whom then does the delegated right of judgement belong? America says that it is a government by the people. If the people are self-governing, does that not imply that we the people are the delegates of God's judgement? After all, we the people fit the criteria set forth in Romans 13:3-4: the righteous has no need to worry, but the evildoer does. It is also an American saying that the proper nature of the relationship between the people and the government ought to be that the government fears the people, not the other way around. Now, I ask you: if we followed this American principle, why would the government be afraid of the people? Could it be because they would be afraid of bringing judgement upon themselves by the sword? But Romans 13 says that only evildoers need worry about that... so what is the government afraid of, exactly?

It benefits the church when we can build and maintain communities, and by implication, protect our communities.
 
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This conversation is forcing me to really consider what the differences are between these three words: fight, oppose, resist. I'm coming to this conclusion, but maybe someone can help clarify - 'resist' implies just saying no (i.e., 'I'm not baking you that gay cake and that's final'); 'fight' implies some level of physical violence, a skirmish, etc.; 'oppose' implies not only resisting (saying no) but also something more active, like physically going down to the drag queen reading at the children's library and intervening in some manner. I don't mean to be pedantic, but I need to get a clear understanding on this.
 
You're right. We're ignorant, and we don't know if God has a plan for turning everything back right side up. Maybe WW3 with China and Russia breaks out and that becomes a vehicle for collapsing Globohomo/NWO. Globohomo is also in a financially precarious position where the US Dollar is on the verge of collapsing. Those would definitely be likely vehicles for God's aid, and if so, then yes, the correct course of action is to be patient with long-suffering forbearance.

But the West was formerly Christian, and so fell under the jurisdiction of government by Christian humans, which means that Christians were in the position of passing legal, divinely sanctioned judgement (Romans 13:1-7). Yet from the behavior of our governments, it is clear that our governments do not satisfy Romans 13:3-4. They do not punish the evildoers and leave the righteous alone, as this passage says they should. Are we evildoers for refusing to bake a gay wedding cake? Are we evildoers for refusing to use a false pronoun for someone? Are we evildoers for refusing to have corrupt big pharmaceutical corporations meddle with our cellular DNA? Indeed, if the government adopted the Mark of the Beast and demanded that you took it, would you be an evildoer?

Clearly not. So what does it mean when the government has lost its legitimacy? To whom then does the delegated right of judgement belong? America says that it is a government by the people. If the people are self-governing, does that not imply that we the people are the delegates of God's judgement? After all, we the people fit the criteria set forth in Romans 13:3-4: the righteous has no need to worry, but the evildoer does. It is also an American saying that the proper nature of the relationship between the people and the government ought to be that the government fears the people, not the other way around. Now, I ask you: if we followed this American principle, why would the government be afraid of the people? Could it be because they would be afraid of bringing judgement upon themselves by the sword? But Romans 13 says that only evildoers need worry about that... so what is the government afraid of, exactly?

It benefits the church when we can build and maintain communities, and by implication, protect our communities.

This conversation is forcing me to really consider what the differences are between these three words: fight, oppose, resist. I'm coming to this conclusion, but maybe someone can help clarify - 'resist' implies just saying no (i.e., 'I'm not baking you that gay cake and that's final'); 'fight' implies some level of physical violence, a skirmish, etc.; 'oppose' implies not only resisting (saying no) but also something more active, like physically going down to the drag queen reading at the children's library and intervening in some manner. I don't mean to be pedantic, but I need to get a clear understanding on this.

Thank you Elipe and Na skrzydlach orlich both for your replies. I would use a thumbs-up but I am not yet a full member.

Elipe, you make a good point. The situation is different when the worldly government does not legitimately bear the sword for God, and citizens need to take back the responsibility of earthly judgment and punishment. I agree with you, and I can definitely see that happening.

I think my issue is a lot of the gay-bashing I'm seeing is almost as bad as the homosexual pedophilia, considering the command of the Lord to love our enemies, and His teaching that having an angry thought about another person is equivalent to murder. When I see all the self-righteous gay-bashing I wonder if we are acting like a bunch of self-righteous Pharisees, and condemning people Jesus would have treated with kindness and understanding, regardless of how they treated him. Many of these gays have probably never encountered any better teaching than the useless "wisdom" of the world, or some fake version of Christianity that's worse than nothing. Should we be so quick to hate and ridicule poor sinners who are lost in their sin? Are we forgetting the dying words of our Lord, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do?" Luke 23:34

Jesus went among the lepers and healed them, and ate with tax collectors and sinners. Those people were considered untouchable by the "religious" class. In Mark 2:17, Jesus said to the Pharisees, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

For reference, I copied two core Biblical teachings about non-resistance to evil below. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I'm trying to give an opposing voice to the open self-righteous hatred and cheering on violence. I fully agree we need to protect our families from evil influences and resist the gay propaganda in a civil manner. Revenge however should be left to the Lord. Otherwise we become part of the problem, and in a sense they win, by pulling us away from our God and into their gay world.

Romans 12:17-21 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Matthew 5:38-47 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
 
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It's called "righteous anger".

Jesus: *grabs a whip and expels the money changers from the temple*

You: "There was no self-defence in this instance; the whip-wielding male was the aggressor. His behaviour was no better then his opponents."
Strawman^^

Not only was the individual in this video not driving-out disrespectful vermin from "the temple"
(or any other holy place), he also does not have the authority that the Son of God possessed.


Apparently in his version of the Bible, the “whip” was figurative. Instead, Jesus gathered his disciples, formed a political action committee, and did his darndest to vote the money changers out of the temple.
Strawman, version II^^
 
A grocery store is not their home either. Yes the corporations have sold out, but who says we have to accept that? Everyone here has their own free will, all I know is that there are a lot of destroyed fag propaganda wherever I go AND only when I can do it subtly without anyone seeing me. There are many, many times I cannot do it because of cctv monitoring or just too many npcs in the area. I don't have time to waste to go around and assault the enemy in occupied territory, I am merely suggesting that the more destroyed fag propaganda there is, the more it will resonate with people who are against this crap (a majority, always). I do everything in His name that is righteous, I don't have to announce it. Why give myself away? There is no sin with attacking from the shadows. I could cheat the devil a million times of his earthly power and ability to arrest and kill me for my beliefs by remaining hidden and only acting in a guerilla fashion, and God would reward me for it. God does not want us to be stupid, yes he wants us to take a stand, but why blow it all on one thing when you can retreat back to the shadows and continue waging war on the enemy in a covert fashion? This is a long term spiritual battle, and I do not intend to do anything conventional while the enemy has the upper hand in the earthly systems.
Again, we are overstepping our bounds if we were to physically destroy someone else's property on their turf.
If you must make a public 'statement', condemn openly with words and then boycott the offending establishment.

You are correct that we are in "a long term spiritual battle". (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)*
*Italics added by me
 
And this, dear fellows, is why the right lost the culture war. Rather than taking the offensive, they'd rather just sit by and allow "LGBTQ+ individuals to enter your open home and start ripping your Bible apart." Because those individuals would have no qualms about doing something like that if it were permitted by Globohomo, but don't you even dare do anything about that because "turn the other cheek" so that we can openly subvert your society while you stand by idly and do nothing about it, and also because your state doesn't happen to have a Castle Doctrine law. Just sit down and be a good goy while we slowly and methodically turn everybody else into a zombie so that you eventually end up isolated and surrounded by a horde of mindless, immoral and bloodthirsty monsters who will gleefully tie you up, rape your wife and kids in your sight, and then kill all of you when we give the command, and we'll pardon them from any consequence in the legal system.

Because you'd rather lose nobly than go down fighting and seizing that even 0.00001% chance of victory.


Now see, this is where you're wrong: yes, on an individual level, he was the aggressor, but what you're missing here is that on a societal level, he is not the aggressor. His society was invaded, molested, raped by those people and people like them. What he is experiencing here is righteous anger, even if he is expressing that in a less-than-optimal way. But nobody is blaming him for the anger he shows here because it is fully justified, and also, people are cheering on him because he is standing up, saying, and doing what so many are afraid to say and do. This is true courage, not the bullshit "bravery" the lavender zombies call it when they come out with the full support of the corpocracy, the vocal populace, the government, and even the armed forces of the government that hold the monopoly on violence.

Get over your worship of private property, libertarian man, and come home to nationalism.
"And this, dear fellows, is why the right lost the culture war."
I am neither "right", nor "left". My identity is "Christian"; not political, cultural, or any other man-made invention.

"Rather than taking the offensive, they'd"
Who's "they'd"? I never claimed to speak for any group.

"rather just sit by and allow 'LGBTQ+ individuals to enter your open home and start ripping your Bible apart.'"
I never actually said what you're implying here.

"Because those individuals would have no qualms about doing something like that if it were permitted by Globohomo"
Agree, 100%. And it will get to that point (and worse) - the Scriptures have prophetically warned us.

"but don't you even dare do anything about that because 'turn the other cheek' so that we can openly subvert your society while you stand by idly and do nothing about it, and also because your state doesn't happen to have a Castle Doctrine law."
You twice accuse me of doing 'nothing' about the current situation. I can only try to do what Matthew 24:14, 1 Corinthians 9:19-27 and 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 command of me; I have no authority to step /beyond/ those orders of my Creator.

"that you eventually end up isolated and surrounded by a horde of mindless, immoral and bloodthirsty monsters who will gleefully tie you up, rape your wife and kids in your sight, and then kill all of you when we give the command, and we'll pardon them from any consequence in the legal system."
This is actually how it will all end, with an all-out global/coordinated assault of true Christians - again, the Scriptures have prophetically warned us.

"Because you'd rather lose nobly than go down fighting and seizing that even 0.00001% chance of victory."
I'm actually guaranteed 100% chance of victory, even if I die. The final battle, however, is not mine.

"Get over your worship of private property, libertarian man, and come home to nationalism."
Again, I am neither "right", nor "left". My identity is "Christian"; not political, cultural, or any other man-made invention.
 
I can't tell what his tattoos say. Some people get Christian tattoos. It is also possible that he got the tattoos when he was younger and later he became more religious. The growing degeneracy is pushing some people to become more religious and he could be one more person that is turning to faith as a refuge from the cultural degeneracy. People have different limits of what they can accept just like I am leaning towards believing it needs to be illegal because their constant push for 'tolerance' is pushing me the opposite way and making me feel anger towards them and not just disgust.

The people were antagonizing him. They were trying to get close to him and yelling at him. If just 1-2 people approached him and wanted to have a friendly debate or chat about their position, he might not have been aggressive. The other people also had their faces covered which shows they might have been planning to commit a violent act and wanted to hide their identity. Also, some were sticking their phones near his face trying to record him and I doubt they asked permission first. This is also pretty disrespectful. They were treating him like a wild animal, not a fellow human.
^^Good perspective; bad situation all around. I'm not saying his anger wasn't justified, but he did not handle his anger correctly. If he truly is a seedling in the faith, then, with time and refinement, he can become the type of Believer who controls his emotions (or, at least controls his emotions better - I speak from personal experience of continually having to keep an eye on said foolishness within myself. :) )

But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth. (2 Timothy 2:24, 25)
 

Louis IX

Pelican
Thank you Elipe and Na skrzydlach orlich both for your replies. I would use a thumbs-up but I am not yet a full member.

Elipe, you make a good point. The situation is different when the worldly government does not legitimately bear the sword for God, and citizens need to take back the responsibility of earthly judgment and punishment. I agree with you, and I can definitely see that happening.

I think my issue is a lot of the gay-bashing I'm seeing is almost as bad as the homosexual pedophilia, considering the command of the Lord to love our enemies, and His teaching that having an angry thought about another person is equivalent to murder. When I see all the self-righteous gay-bashing I wonder if we are acting like a bunch of self-righteous Pharisees, and condemning people Jesus would have treated with kindness and understanding, regardless of how they treated him. Many of these gays have probably never encountered any better teaching than the useless "wisdom" of the world, or some fake version of Christianity that's worse than nothing. Should we be so quick to hate and ridicule poor sinners who are lost in their sin? Are we forgetting the dying words of our Lord, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do?" Luke 23:34

Jesus went among the lepers and healed them, and ate with tax collectors and sinners. Those people were considered untouchable by the "religious" class. In Mark 2:17, Jesus said to the Pharisees, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

For reference, I copied two core Biblical teachings about non-resistance to evil below. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I'm trying to give an opposing voice to the open self-righteous hatred and cheering on violence. I fully agree we need to protect our families from evil influences and resist the gay propaganda in a civil manner. Revenge however should be left to the Lord. Otherwise we become part of the problem, and in a sense they win, by pulling us away from our God and into their gay world.

Romans 12:17-21 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Matthew 5:38-47 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
The problem is that quoting the Bible usually leads to differences in personal interpretations. It is also easy to pick some verses in the Bible and omit some others depending on what inclination you want to give to your answer.
(not a personal critic , just a generic critic).
 
The problem is that quoting the Bible usually leads to differences in personal interpretations. It is also easy to pick some verses in the Bible and omit some others depending on what inclination you want to give to your answer.
(not a personal critic , just a generic critic).

I agree with you there are parts of the Bible that appear contradictory. My personal belief is that my mind is too limited and feeble in its earthly condition to comprehend the true reality behind these seeming contradictions. The best I can do is reason that both, since they are both contained in the inspired and true word of God, must both be true, and my task is to seek God to reveal the meaning to me in a way I can understand.

Predestination vs free will is a classic example that I won't get into here except to give an example.

As far as personal interpretations: since the Bible states I have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, who holds his priesthood permanently, and so is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, and who always lives to make intercession for them, I am confident in my right to come directly to my great high priest and ask Him directly to explain His word to me. And in the case where He sees fit to do so, the truth would not be my own personal interpretation but would simply be the truth. There is always the possibility of self-deception, but I'm talking about when self-deception is weakened by the grace of God and He sees fit to illuminate a particular truth for me. I understand there is a huge responsibility in claiming to know the truth by direct communion with God, however I believe I must bear that responsibility because God clearly states it is mine.

In this case with the violence against gays, I understand there are scriptures such as "I did not come to bring peace but a sword" that seem to support Christian violence, but the context of that one is the breakup of family relationships and not necessarily a real sword. Christ often also speaks of the sword that proceeds from His mouth, which is clearly His tongue, the power of His word and His truth. Are there specific scriptures you can think of that support Christian violence? To my understanding the Christian approach to evil is nonviolent yet firm resistance, praising God, openly affirming His truth, and trusting in His providence even in the most dire persecution. Not to fight back, but to count it an honor to bear reproach and shame, even persecution and death, for the sake of standing up for the truth of God and His word. We are not called to resist evil outside of ourselves, we are called to willingly bear the evil God sees fit to allow or afflict us with, and bear it honorably.
 
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Elipe

Pelican
Not to fight back, but to count it an honor to bear reproach and shame, even persecution and death, for the sake of standing up for the truth of God and His word.
This is easy to say when you don't have a wife or children. And yes, this is part of why Scripture teaches that it is better to be single... because then such concerns are trivial to you. But you do have a point.

But it's ignoring the fact that for centuries, Christians under guidance of the Pope were called to war to battle the Muslims so that they wouldn't conquer Christian lands. It's obvious that this reasoning wasn't applied by men of the cloth who made it their entire life's work to study Scripture and Church tradition, and to teach these. But why? Why did nobody stay the Pope's hand and say it is unChristlike to fight these crusades? Why wasn't the solution to just send waves upon waves of missionaries to Islamic lands or have people link arms and form a human border? Wouldn't that be the "heaping burning coals" on their heads that Jesus spoke of, instead of slaughtering them? Would it have worked?

Why were the crusades justified, but not resistance in our situation? Why are we to be pacifists when our ancestors in the faith were quite emphatically not? Can you truly just stand there and die for Christ, and fail to protect your brothers and sisters? Is it not true that when Paul was pursued by the authorities, his disciples lowered him down from a window to help him escape, rather than allow him to suffer for Christ?

Could it be that "heaping burning coals" is meant at the individual level, wherein being apprehended by individuals gives them the opportunity to face their conscience? But at a larger scale, the conscience is drowned out by the collective. And thus, when faced with collective vs collective, should we not protect our own collective so that they are not meaninglessly slaughtered as faceless victims of war?
 

Elipe

Pelican
We are not called to resist evil outside of ourselves, we are called to willingly bear the evil God sees fit to allow or afflict us with, and bear it honorably.

Is this one of the evils children should willingly bear honorably? Can you look me in the eyes without blinking and say to me, "We should not resist this"?

We could trust in His providence even in the most dire persecution, but I am reminded of the joke/story about the man on the rooftop in the midst of a flood. He hears the news on the radio and TV that there is a coming flood that will submerge houses in the area. His neighbor comes by in a Jeep and tells him to get in to escape before the floodwaters arrive. He refuses, saying, "No, I will wait on the Lord to rescue me." The neighbor leaves, and the floodwaters begin arriving, so the man goes up to the rooftop of his home. After a while, a fireman in a boat comes by and urges the man to get into the boat, but the man replies, "No, I will wait on the Lord to rescue me." This goes on and the fireman gives up, realizing the man is not budging. Later, a helicopter comes flying by as the floodwaters reach the edge of the roof. The rescuer in the helicopter throws down the ladder and pleads the man to get in the helicopter, but the man again, refuses. "No, I will wait on the Lord to rescue me. God will take care of me."

Eventually, the floodwaters rise and drown the man. At the pearly gates, the man said to God: "I had faith, you let me die."
And God said: "I sent you a jeep, a boat, and a helicopter. What more could I have done for you?"
 
That is a horrifying video. This is the sort of behaviour that must be dealt with decisively. Compassion for the sinner struggling privately, yes, but how can one not be stirred to intervene on seeing something like that?
 
Is this one of the evils children should willingly bear honorably? Can you look me in the eyes without blinking and say to me, "We should not resist this"?

We could trust in His providence even in the most dire persecution, but I am reminded of the joke/story about the man on the rooftop in the midst of a flood. He hears the news on the radio and TV that there is a coming flood that will submerge houses in the area. His neighbor comes by in a Jeep and tells him to get in to escape before the floodwaters arrive. He refuses, saying, "No, I will wait on the Lord to rescue me." The neighbor leaves, and the floodwaters begin arriving, so the man goes up to the rooftop of his home. After a while, a fireman in a boat comes by and urges the man to get into the boat, but the man replies, "No, I will wait on the Lord to rescue me." This goes on and the fireman gives up, realizing the man is not budging. Later, a helicopter comes flying by as the floodwaters reach the edge of the roof. The rescuer in the helicopter throws down the ladder and pleads the man to get in the helicopter, but the man again, refuses. "No, I will wait on the Lord to rescue me. God will take care of me."

Eventually, the floodwaters rise and drown the man. At the pearly gates, the man said to God: "I had faith, you let me die."
And God said: "I sent you a jeep, a boat, and a helicopter. What more could I have done for you?"

That is a horrifying video. This is the sort of behaviour that must be dealt with decisively. Compassion for the sinner struggling privately, yes, but how can one not be stirred to intervene on seeing something like that?

The video was not visible for me, but I definitely agree there is evil I need to fight, using physical force when necessary. Self defense to protect my own body, my family, or defenseless people like children, are necessary times to use violence. Also, I'm not saying children should "honorably suffer" anything. I have a 2 year old daughter and a son on the way so I'm not on the sidelines when it comes to resisting the evil propaganda kids are being exposed to.

I still believe nonviolent resistance is the true way of God. He will provide the violent retribution, now and on the final day, in their minds and in their bodies to feel His punishment. No help is needed from me. Of course I am free to use my words, my own example, and practices that keep me close to the Lord, to keep evildoers away from my family, and protect my children from their evil influence.

I agree with both of you the human passion and being stirred to do something from a sense of honor and love of God would lead us to want to violently strike down God's enemies, even before they physically threaten us. That is natural and is exactly why one of the eleven took out his sword and began to fight when Jesus had been betrayed and was being captured. However Jesus rebuked him and healed the man, intentionally stopping the violence because as God He knew it was not the right time.


From the Psalms about when God is on our side and supports us to violently destroy our enemies:

"He trains my hands for war,
so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
You have given me the shield of your salvation,
and your right hand supported me,
and your gentleness made me great.
You gave a wide place for my steps under me,
and my feet did not slip.
I pursued my enemies and overtook them,
and did not turn back till they were consumed.
I thrust them through, so that they were not able to rise;
they fell under my feet.
For you equipped me with strength for the battle;
you made those who rise against me sink under me.
You made my enemies turn their backs to me,
and those who hated me I destroyed.
They cried for help, but there was none to save;
they cried to the Lord, but he did not answer them.
I beat them fine as dust before the wind;
I cast them out like the mire of the streets."


From the Psalms about God's own vengeance:

"God shall arise, his enemies shall be scattered;
and those who hate him shall flee before him!
As smoke is driven away, so you shall drive them away;
as wax melts before fire,
so the wicked shall perish before God!


"O Lord, God of vengeance,
O God of vengeance, shine forth!
Rise up, O judge of the earth;
repay to the proud what they deserve!
O Lord, how long shall the wicked,
how long shall the wicked exult?
They pour out their arrogant words;
all the evildoers boast.
They crush your people, O Lord,
and afflict your heritage.

"The Lord will not forsake his people;
he will not abandon his heritage;
for justice will return to the righteous,
and all the upright in heart will follow it.

"Who rises up for me against the wicked?
Who stands up for me against evildoers?
If the Lord had not been my help,
my soul would soon have lived in the land of silence.

"The Lord has become my stronghold,
and my God the rock of my refuge.
He will bring back on them their iniquity
and wipe them out for their wickedness;
the Lord our God will wipe them out."
 
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