The God pill
- Thread starter Roosh
- Start date
Another thing about learning other religions...I'm Catholic. I'm sure the Orthobros (and maybe the Protestants) will agree with me when I say that there is so much to learn about my faith. I seriously feel like I'm drinking water out of a fire hose. My Amazon wish list for Catholic books would take me decades to read. That's on top of putting virtue into practice in my day to day life, as well as daily prayers.
Taking this into consideration, I have no idea why the faithful even bat an eye at other religions. There is only so much time on this earth, and you want to spend it listening to people who don't even believe in Jesus?
Or, do you have so much pride that you think you are soooo knowledgeable about the faith, that you know there's all to know? The arrogance can be mind blowing sometimes. Not saying this is Rob Banks, but you see this with many liberal-ish, "inclusive" Christians.
Taking this into consideration, I have no idea why the faithful even bat an eye at other religions. There is only so much time on this earth, and you want to spend it listening to people who don't even believe in Jesus?
Or, do you have so much pride that you think you are soooo knowledgeable about the faith, that you know there's all to know? The arrogance can be mind blowing sometimes. Not saying this is Rob Banks, but you see this with many liberal-ish, "inclusive" Christians.
I agree with Roosh. Other religions are water mixed with oil: when you drink from those cups, the clear parts you get are mixed with darkness. Why even bother when you could get the full truth with no errors instead?
Rob Banks said:
I wrote a post a couple of pages back upthread going into great detail about this. Catholic Meditation is not Buddhist Meditation. If you're generous about coming back to God, Catholic Meditation - consideration of images or scripture - will only last about 6-9 months. Once your ability to feel emotional sensibility and produce any mental images is closed down by God, then your senses will be progressively-purged, and you will start to know God via Intellect and Faith, rather than Emotion, and you will never 'meditate' again. Instead, you go into Contemplation.
There are seven grades of prayer above Catholic Meditation. I seem to finally have experienced the Full, rather than Reduced, form of the Prayer of Quiet on Sunday. It's a descent of an Atmosphere of Love - I can only describe it as living and breathing God - it lasted about two hours through activity. The sense of him being very present, not emotionally, but intellectually, and with that, the understanding that is nothing to ever be afraid of in this life, even though I understand something very, very bad is about to happen, and it's not about the virus, but also that the answer is in what I've repeatedly-written about on here: approach him through loving mercy, no matter how great your sins, rather than his feared justice.
I practiced Buddhist meditation in my 20's. It was an empty lie. This is so far superior as to compare a matchstick to a forest fire. My stepfather practices it now: he's had some bad experiences where he goes to a very dark place. The instructor warns them all that this can happen before they start. This *never* happens with God, and if it does it's only under Transformation Prayer with the purpose of healing it. Sunday's TPM session revealed I was, when very young, bound and tied on the dirt floor of the neighbor's back shed, of which I didn't even remember existed an hour before. The emotional pain the child felt was incredible, then, Jesus was there. My heart swelled, 'My Lord, My King' and the child gave him all the fear and pain he was feeling.
My Priest was, meanwhile, doing the Church's financial records, only offering guidance now and then: "I was feeling a little full of myself once, so God said maybe I should try it without him. I've learnt my lesson." I've seen him texting whilst Jesus casts out demons, sure of Jesus' power.
I gave the link to the 'Little Catechism of Prayer" before. It's very, very short. Try it. God will show you He is Love through meditation very quickly, to the degree he has to remove your ability to feel him emotionally ('Consolations') so you don't get addicted to them as pleasurable distractions for their own sake. I can see why: feeling that level of being loved is very, very addictive, whereas, the Atmosphere of Love I felt on Sunday, whilst superior, isn't desired in and of itself, it's recognized as a gift when he deems to grant it and I will accept it if its tomorrow or a year from now, and heightens your intellectual understanding of his continual presence even when *not* perceived through sense, and, particularly in the necessary darkness you will pass through as you are trialed ('Desolations').
I'm also struck with a very great need to withdraw from the world to focus on God again - the Coronavirus simply no longer matters - which makes sense based on this description of the fruits:
I'm not saying this to big note myself. I'm saying this so you understand that this state of prayer is promised to all Catholics who cooperate and work on the lower levels of prayer first, and I'm not even discussing the much higher grades of prayer yet.
You don't yet understand that all these incredible changes can happen in your life, through God's Grace. Since this is a progressive journey towards perfection, the Virtues, such as Chastity or Fortitude might currently-seem like phantoms, but they're real, and are gradually-infused once you get past the meditative stage. Hang in there and persist, especially after what you are currently reading as a 'fall into sin', which is likely an Erroneous Cogitative Judgement about possessing Free Will and true Culpability for sin based upon an Underlying Disorder of the Sensitive Appetites. TPM Ministry will help show you why and how that disorder arose. The 'Emotions' book I recommended before will start you on the journey to understanding why and how these disorders arise to begin with.
Stop thinking you're too 'broken' to come to Jesus because of your sins. As he said to St Faustina:
"I desire trust from My creatures. Encourage souls to place great trust in My fathomless mercy. Let the weak, sinful soul have no fear to approach Me, for even if it had more sins than there are grains of sand in the world, all would be drowned in the unmeasurable depths of My mercy."
and
“Tell sinners that no one shall escape My Hand; if they run away from My Merciful Heart, they will fall into My Just Hands”
...meaning, his compassion for your weak and sinful human state far outweighs any desire to punish you eternally, but if you misunderstand him and don't trust enough to only see the Fearful Judge, that's what the soul will be left with.
Forget Buddhism, and read that Little Catechism, and start regular prayer. My Priest was chiding me for my impatience on Sunday: "You've come to an incredibly-high grade of prayer in under three years, and yet your still impatient that God hasn't perfected you yet. Show some gratitude." He was, as always, right.
With the greatest of respect to those who have contributed above, I do think that is selling Buddhism rather short.
If God is One, and he created all, he must be immediately and directly accessible to all creation, at least through His most essential reality.
Even to recognise that Christianity/Catholicism is 'the only way' is to use a faculty that must be universal, otherwise one could not urge others to follow Catholicism. This is what Meister Eckhart, refers to as the 'light in the soul which is uncreated and uncreatable'. Now that which is universal must precede that which is particular, just as contemplation is somehow prior, metaphysically speaking, to personal and affective prayer, without the latter thereby being less necessary on the plane of practice.
The two commandments of Christ are: 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind', and 'thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself'.
One could easily argue that Buddhism has no conception of a personal deity, but it would be much harder to argue that they have no concept of the Divine. A personal deity, who is the sole Object of our prayer, eventually becomes such an all encompassing Reality that He can no longer be held as an object, but takes our subject captive too, such that what was polar (subject and object) now becomes unified - and this is the prayer of union. Now if we start from this highest metaphysical reality, we see the personal deity as being a conception of a secondary order - hence the Buddha, when asked, neither affirmed that God existed, nor did he deny His existence. Again we have the example of Meister Eckhart, who prayed to God to be rid of the notion of God, as it limited his union.
If a Buddhist saint dedicated his life to the spiritual, submitted himself totally to the Buddha's teachings, rejected the life of this world for the sake of the Transcendent, not resting on anything he saw as conditioned or limited, then surely he loved the Divine with all his heart, soul and mind. And if he did so with the Brahmaviharas (the sublime meditative attitudes: loving-kindness to all; compassion; joy of empathy; equanimity) in mind, then he surely loved his neighbour as himself.
One sees this clearly in the writings of the great Buddhist saints, such as Milarepa and Xuyun. They purify themselves for the sake of all beings, which implies both a unity of origin and a unity of existence, or the Oneness of God and the Oneness of Being, or Monotheism and compassion.
As for a prescriptive attitude, I do think one has to be very traditional in ones practice of Buddhism, otherwise one easily risks the influence of the new-age and modernism. In that sense it is more susceptible than certainly Orthodoxy and the practice of most lay Catholics, not to mention Islam.
It is also not true that one doesn't experience difficulties when praying to God - of course the difficulties have nothing to do with God as such, but they arise out of the confrontation of what is relative and limiting in us with what is Absolute and Free in God. It is a common phenomenon known to all mystical traditions - it is the allegory in Dante's Inferno, for example.
To me, it would be almost heretical to not recognise God's presence where it clearly resides. Namu Amida Butsu.
If God is One, and he created all, he must be immediately and directly accessible to all creation, at least through His most essential reality.
Even to recognise that Christianity/Catholicism is 'the only way' is to use a faculty that must be universal, otherwise one could not urge others to follow Catholicism. This is what Meister Eckhart, refers to as the 'light in the soul which is uncreated and uncreatable'. Now that which is universal must precede that which is particular, just as contemplation is somehow prior, metaphysically speaking, to personal and affective prayer, without the latter thereby being less necessary on the plane of practice.
The two commandments of Christ are: 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind', and 'thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself'.
One could easily argue that Buddhism has no conception of a personal deity, but it would be much harder to argue that they have no concept of the Divine. A personal deity, who is the sole Object of our prayer, eventually becomes such an all encompassing Reality that He can no longer be held as an object, but takes our subject captive too, such that what was polar (subject and object) now becomes unified - and this is the prayer of union. Now if we start from this highest metaphysical reality, we see the personal deity as being a conception of a secondary order - hence the Buddha, when asked, neither affirmed that God existed, nor did he deny His existence. Again we have the example of Meister Eckhart, who prayed to God to be rid of the notion of God, as it limited his union.
If a Buddhist saint dedicated his life to the spiritual, submitted himself totally to the Buddha's teachings, rejected the life of this world for the sake of the Transcendent, not resting on anything he saw as conditioned or limited, then surely he loved the Divine with all his heart, soul and mind. And if he did so with the Brahmaviharas (the sublime meditative attitudes: loving-kindness to all; compassion; joy of empathy; equanimity) in mind, then he surely loved his neighbour as himself.
One sees this clearly in the writings of the great Buddhist saints, such as Milarepa and Xuyun. They purify themselves for the sake of all beings, which implies both a unity of origin and a unity of existence, or the Oneness of God and the Oneness of Being, or Monotheism and compassion.
As for a prescriptive attitude, I do think one has to be very traditional in ones practice of Buddhism, otherwise one easily risks the influence of the new-age and modernism. In that sense it is more susceptible than certainly Orthodoxy and the practice of most lay Catholics, not to mention Islam.
It is also not true that one doesn't experience difficulties when praying to God - of course the difficulties have nothing to do with God as such, but they arise out of the confrontation of what is relative and limiting in us with what is Absolute and Free in God. It is a common phenomenon known to all mystical traditions - it is the allegory in Dante's Inferno, for example.
To me, it would be almost heretical to not recognise God's presence where it clearly resides. Namu Amida Butsu.
Rob Banks
Pelican
↑ I always thought it was possible for other religions (such as Buddhism) to contain wisdom even if they are false religions.
It seems possible to see the wisdom in Buddhist teachings (or Taoist teachings, or the Quran, etc. etc.) but acknowledge that Buddha (or any other important figure from a non-Christian religion) was just a spiritual teacher and not see him as a prophet or a deity or whatever.
Then again, I am open to the possibility that I am wrong. If my priest, Roosh, and many forum members who I respect are all saying the same thing (to avoid Buddhism), it is probably for a good reason.
It seems possible to see the wisdom in Buddhist teachings (or Taoist teachings, or the Quran, etc. etc.) but acknowledge that Buddha (or any other important figure from a non-Christian religion) was just a spiritual teacher and not see him as a prophet or a deity or whatever.
Then again, I am open to the possibility that I am wrong. If my priest, Roosh, and many forum members who I respect are all saying the same thing (to avoid Buddhism), it is probably for a good reason.
Everyone should search youtube for videos about higher dimensions. There are some good ones discussing 10 dimensions.
I like this because it's all based in mathematics. And it puts to bed questions like "hur dur how does god know everything".
Some of my biggest "damn boy" moments were in 101 physics and 101 calculus.
I like this because it's all based in mathematics. And it puts to bed questions like "hur dur how does god know everything".
Some of my biggest "damn boy" moments were in 101 physics and 101 calculus.
Huh.
By their fruits you shall know them indeed...
Turkey's Erdogan :
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/v...t-the-re-establishment-of-the-ottoman-empire/
By their fruits you shall know them indeed...
Turkey's Erdogan :
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/v...t-the-re-establishment-of-the-ottoman-empire/
The PerSev
Sparrow
I've been struggling with something similar for a while, and I haven't been able to resolve it.Rob Banks said:
I was baptized as an Orthodox Christian although it's been more than a decade since I stepped into a Church(late 20s now). I believe in God, though in the interest of full disclosure, I entertain "traditions" that many in this thread would consider heretical or "satanic". Yoga, meditation, Eastern religions, gnosticism, magic, new thought etc. I haven't yet bought deeply into any of them but I have always been open to them all, ever since I became an adult. I did a lot of soul searching on the why, to the best of my conscious mind I can say that it's not out of a desire to harm others or dominate others, gain occult powers etc. I was always interested in them partly because I want to be the best version of my self(in the secular sense) and partly because they might point the way to "the Truth", enlightenment, union with God or whatever you want to call it.
For the past year the notion of reconnecting with my religion has been gnawing at me, yet I can't bring myself to try, and here is the reason: I don't want to come before God as a failure.
It sounds like pride. It may very well be. I've thought about it long and hard, whether it's just pride hidden behind a layer of self-delusion and rationalization. I just don't know.
But part of me thinks that it's not pride. Part of me thinks that I'm correct in delaying. I don't want my relationship with God to be transactional, as some of you put it. That was something I saw in my grandparents as an adolescent and it never sat right with me. They looked at God as if at a cow, it was good because it provided them milk.
My difficulty is this: I am unhappy in life. For the usual reason: I'm not getting enough of what I want. Not enough money, not enough status, not enough achievement, not enough women, not enough fun. I would feel like a complete hypocrite if I reached out to God out of "sour grapes". Like a woman who becomes a nun because they couldn't get a husband, not out of an innate desire.
In the book of Ecclesiastes the author had everything a man could want in life, did everything that a man could do, yet he found it was still meaningless without God. A more down to earth example would be Roosh's journey, or more recently Victor Pride.
But I genuinely don't feel that way. Roosh and Victor got everything they wanted, I haven't. If I got everything I wanted in life and then found it meaningless, I could accept that. But not before. Though I agree with Ecclesiastes intellectually, the sentiment is simply not true for me. I still feel a strong attachment to those things.
So that's basically it. I fear the "sour grapes", I fear being a hypocrite. I fear that if I start a spiritual journey out of a position of weakness, it will be tainted and unworthy, built on a weak foundation, destined to crumble. I fear that if I repress these desires they will always be there in the dark, infecting everything I do and will someday return with a vengeance.
What's even worse is I'm aware that this is also a great hypocrisy: believing that God should wait for me to "work things out". Like a woman who whores around until her 30s and then finds a husband to save her. I also don't want to be the man who spends his whole life apart from God and then when the end is near he reaches out to him out of fear. I also observe this tendency in many of my loved ones and it disgusts me.
So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. Damned if I do and damned if I don't. I can't get near God now because "it's too early" yet I fear I won't be able to in the future because it will be too late. I am very confused.
This is the first time I've ever "voiced" this to anyone. I don't even know why, I haven't posted on this forum for years, and when I did in the past I was a fool. Has someone else ever felt this way?
Rob Banks
Pelican
The PerSev said:
I can tell you from personal experience that this is the wrong way of thinking.
I had a wife who was willing to eventually start a family with me, but I felt like I first needed to "prove myself" as a man by banging other girls. I was never a player, and I felt like a loser because of it.
I just posted about this on another thread, so I won't repeat all the details here, but this attitude led to a very bad outcome for me.
Rob Banks said:
Yes, there are those recognised by God as Virtuous Pagans.
The idea that all religions are equal paths to God is the teaching of the One World Religion: a stated goal of the Jewish Chabbad New World Order. This is found in the religious teachings of the Chabbad 'Messiah' - Antichrist to those who believe in Jesus - Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson. Despite the appearance of the Left - Right Dichotomy seemingly-existing in US politics, every US President has recognised his birthdate since it was declared a national day on honour by Jimmy Carter in 1978, with everyone from Bush to Clinton to Obama kissing the ring.
It's supposedly because of his interest in morally-educating the young. He did want public prayer back in school, which sounds good, until you look closer. From a letter:
Going further:
This is whom all the people behind Trump effectively-believe is the promised Jewish Messiah, including his daughter and son-in-law, Kushner. When you see Ivanka and Trump tweeting about National Calls to Prayer, this is what they mean, not praying to Jesus. It's just that their Evangelical Base doesn't notice, because they believe Judeo-Christianity - two opposing forces - is a union, not a tool for political subjugation.
Mordechai Eliyahu, former chief Rabbi of Israel:
"The Rebbe jumped effortlessly from one Talmudic tractate to another, and from there to Kabbalah and then to Jewish law ... It was as if he had just finished studying these very topics from the holy books. The whole Torah was an open book in front of him"
The Talmud is the Satanism Jesus warned about.
The Kabbalah is Mystery Babylon, strictly-forbidden knowledge.
Freemasonary is also Mystery Babylon, where you worship 'The Grand Architect of the Universe', a 'personal God' who turns out to be Satan.
From the Chabbad website, when someone asked if a Jew can believe in Jesus, a Rabbi answers:
He then links to this site that is specifically-designed to teach Jews to be counter-missionaries against Christianity.
https://jewsforjudaism.org/
It even states that Christians believe Satan is a 'fallen angel'. What do the Jews believe? That he is an 'agent of God'.
Here's the Chabbad-approved dismissal of Jesus as even being a Prophet:
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/was-jesus-a-prophet
Why don't Evangelicals understand this intense hatred for Jesus by the Jews? Why don't their (incredibly-wealthy) religious leaders warn them?
So, if these people who reject Christ are working towards an 'All Roads Lead to God' type of society, where open-testimonial is frowned upon, or openly-restricted, (Obama's top Rabbi was recently in Australia to shepherd our coming religious freedom laws with the instruction that you not be allowed to do public missionary, because the religious belief of the Jewish 0.4% of the Australian Population becomes Law, not, for example, the 22% Catholic one), then I'd completely-ignore it as the Satanic Trap it is.
Everything that isn't of God is an inferior source of healing, coping or instruction. If you were baptised into the Catholic Faith, you are Infused with the Theological Virtues: Faith, Hope and Charity. When you're in mortal sin, Charity is lost, and Sanctifying Grace can only happen through God's action.* Faith and Hope will always function to call you back to Him, not matter how you try and disbelieve this or fight against it. As you pass into the Second Age of the Interior Life, the Illuminative Way, the Moral Virtues of Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance will grow. This it the process that will fix everything that is currently-wrong with you, if you give up your sense of control to God. Nothing else can compare.
-----
* St Thomas explains that we are four parts: Soma - Sensible Body; Psyche - Animal Soul; Pnuema - Spiritual Soul; Sanctifying Grace.
If you look at the bad behaviour those in power seem to encourage in the population, it's about keeping you focused on the lower two parts only.
The Soma is considered a Vegetative Part: the external senses and the subsensory drives. Everything comes through the five senses, and there is five instinctual drives that exist to conform us to first precepts of the natural law:
- to the good;
- for self-preservation;
- for heterosexual union and child-rearing;
- for knowledge of the truth;
- to live in society.
We all instinctively-have these desires. I can easily-see just looking at the list what happens when the demons have hold of you:
- to the evil;
- for self-destruction;
- for non-heterosexual sexualites and the death of children and family unit;
- for promote subjective knowledge of the false as good and obscure the truth;
- to exploit and destroy society.
The Psyche is a combination of the sensitive appetites (or passions), and the Internal Senses. We respond to Pleasure via Concupiscible Emotions, by our assessment of if they are a present good (love, desire, joy), or a present evil (Hate, aversion, sadness). We also have Irascible Emotions, which change if the arduous future is seen as good ( hope / despair) or evil (daring / anger).
If it's an arduous present evil: Fear.
These Passions are restricted and controlled by the Internal Senses: the cogitative power, the imagination, the memory, and common sense. These can all be damaged by Wounding in the formative years, which can lead to compulsive behaviour that overrides Free Will.
I believe this is why the Left are so obsessed with targetting children. Get 'em young, break the Cogitative Power - this drag queen the child is naturally repulsed by is treated as normal by the adults - and they can never rely on particular reason to make judgments again, and so will never believe they aren't freely-choosing to Sin.
In the case of the sexually abused, the Cogitative Power labels sex as 'evil', so every time the Concupiscible Power feels a sexual movement, the Irascible Power reacts with Fear, and swoops down to repress the sexual desire. These two desires are in conflict: I want sex / sex is evil! Normally they'd be resolved by asking the Cogitative Power what to do. Except, because this has been wounded by abuse, it has no idea. The Concupiscible power now becomes Repressed, but continues to subconsciously try to achieve its desired goal, even if the person is unaware of its action.
This is where Compulsions that override Choice are born, and why you need a Priest who understands this and can walk you through it to allow Jesus to heal you, which will be about understanding who God truly is, (merciful father, not damning judge), and reacting to temptations not with Irascible Fear - (ahhhh! a naked woman! I must block this from my mind and say 100 prayers or god will punish me and send me to hell) - but a simple turning to God to analyse and discuss what the temptation is, ("i see a naked woman. i receive this information. i feel sexual pleasure. i thank you for the ability to feel pleasure, since it comes from you, and isn't evil in itself, since you made it. thank you for her beauty, since it is nothing she has done herself, and is a testament to your creative ability. out of respect for you, her and myself, i will not take this any further and act on this desire. all glory and praise to you"). Every temptation then becomes an opportunity to move closer to God, and strip down an analyse what might have once derailed your peace, and you begin to see what drives you in a more intellectual fashion, without engaging the Animal Soul.
This is because you start shifting to your Spiritual Soul - the Intellect and the Will. Everything begins to happen in the Intellect, and God will close down the Sensitive Appetites and your ability to perceive sense memories, all of which can be influenced by the Demonic. They're cut off from the Spiritual Soul.
When we joke about Consoomers and NPC's: They're purely creatures of Body and Animal Soul. They're driven by the passions - so function Emotionally. They're always saying "I feel..."
The Spiritual Soul lets you just know and understand intuitively, with both speculative and practical experience of the truth. It involve Intuition, you will receive knowledge, inspirations, and contemplation. You can't explain why, you just *receive the truth*. Leonard speaking in a thread about NPC's inability to rest in silence this morning was a great example. This is a Catholic theological teaching he just intuitively-understood was the truth. I spoke about a cycle a while back - knowledge is infused first, then you soon after have it reinforced by experience.
Guided by Reason and Intuition, your Will can now both desire and choose to act with love, naturally inclined to the good. Everything in the Lower Faculties (Animal, Body) will choose self (sin), unless brought under the control of the Higher Faculties.
This elevation is only possible by the presence of sanctifying grace, which requires confessing your mortal sins to a Priest regularly. Without it, you won't intuitively-understand the truth, won't always recognise evil, and everything descends into various forms of moral relativism based on feels.
This is where we clearly are not all the same religion.
If you look at this, map, although we have some differences, the functional beliefs of Catholic and the Eastern and Armenian Orthodox function around the same level. We share sanctifying grace, though their focus in not worrying about one's State of Grace, and I believe they are correct here because of the problems about obsessing over sin and damnation that the heresy of William of Ockham caused the Catholic Church.
Once you go down the Anglican Line, due to the Reformation, Sanctifying Grace only exists through God's Action. I'd expect This cutting off of Intuition from the Holy Spirit leads to further splintering, because people don't intuitively-sense the truth through the Higher Faculties.
Pay attention to those who control us now. The two warring factions at the moment: the Reform / Orthodox who vote Democrat and Chabbad, who control Trump and, increasingly, the Republicans, all source from the Pharisees, whom Jesus continually-condemned as being of the Devil. Yet, despite the warning to Christians, they somehow control both the Left and Right of American Politics in a clueless 'Christian' nation. Almost as if truth is not being Intuitively-Sensed.
Odd, isn't it?
The PerSev said:
- The sense of 'not having enough' is what is calling you back to God;
- He tolerates you not getting what you want because achieving it doesn't take the desire of more away, and take you further from him, and then require the toleration of a greater evil to remove it from you;
- The demonic temptation is, yes, Pride. To stall endlessly, to wait for a perfect time that never eventuates.
- You will still desire these things as you approach God, because those desires will be stripped down during the Purgative Way, and the Virtues to combat those desires will be Infused during the Illuminative Way. He will show you their Truth.
Unlock the door.
Here is a woman who achieved everything she set out to do: money, fame, attention. I've spoken before about the three stages of the Dysfunctional Interior Life: the Party / Pervert / Pathetic Stages as Satanic Inversion of the Purgative / Illuminative / Unitive Stages. The chasing of those Nagging Desires leads you, eventually, to the Pathetic state. Take it as a warning.
The PerSev said:
Maybe this will help. Every man comes at God from weakness. Every man stands condemned (Romans 1 - 3). All who repent are beggars before the throne.
You are a failure. We all are, the biggest alpha on the planet included. "There is none righteous, no, not one."
It is transactional in the sense that we need God's grace every day, and He calls us to Himself as children to a father.
Many of us are prone to navel-gazing to an inordinate degree and using that to avoid doing what we should be doing. What does the Bible say? "Repent and believe the Gospel." "Seek first the kingdom of heaven." "Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! ... Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."
We aren't guaranteed tomorrow. Seek the Lord while He may be found.
Roosh has lamented the years wasted chasing things that crumbled in his hand. What did he gain from that other than the knowledge to tell others not to do what he did? That was my experience to a much more limited degree. A little exhilaration and a lot of wasted time when I should've been pursuing a wife and marriage. Pursuing becoming a real, responsible man instead of chasing shiny objects in skirts. This GenX'er would take a wife and 5 kids over fornicating with 500 women any day of the week. It was my own stupidity when I was younger which impacted that ability. That's my regret, not how many chicks I didn't sleep with (which would have only corrupted them further). Be thankful you don't have that add'l burden of guilt.
Wutang said:
St Catherine of Sienna was a lay Dominican, a 14th Century Mystic, and is one of the Doctors of the Catholic Church, meaning, her teachings have made a significant contribution to understanding what the faith is. She had a truly incredible life, if you're curious:
https://catholicism.org/saint-catherine-of-siena.html
She was deep into the third stage of the Interior Life, the Unitive Way - Theosis to the Orthodox - so was experiencing the highest grades of prayer, to the degree that she lived on the Eucharist alone, which isn't uncommon with the Catholic Mystics, particularly Victim Souls. With that came Ecstasies and Visions. Ecstasy is a high state of unitive contemplative prayer, where people are so detached from the world they appear almost dead. The Church Scientists have studied it deeply: the heart rate is incredibly-slow, they can be cold and unresponsive to touch, some were known to levitate, and it can persist for days. Some forms of this state are still communicative, which is how The Dialogue was written.
What she was recording was what God was saying to her. There is nothing written in the Dialogue that the Catholic Church disagrees with. Even a young Priest, when explaining final judgement to us, said not to presume on risking mortal sin, but God makes the final call, as is his right.
God goes into detail about how justification works, what sin is, obedience, divine providence, and why people don't choose him. It's a complex work, and easily-misunderstood based upon your own deep guilt and shame, which is why I wouldn't recommend to it anyone who is a beginner in the faith, or has a deep-seated fear of God. It risks horrifying you into despair (not of God), but if you understand God's Mercy is greater than your own Fear, what you might have read a year ago as horrific, instead isn't confronting at all, and extremely-hopeful. The issue is the language is pure Mysticism, and if you have no experience with that type of prayer yet, you simply won't understand it, and it might sound like gibberish.
I'd suggest consulting a spiritual director before tackling it. I don't think it should be approached in the Purgative Way at all. The experiential knowledge of God of the soul isn't solid enough yet.
One thing God explains to her that Jesus is the bridge he has provided to cross between earth and heaven, and the soul will pass through three stages of this journey: from His feet, to His side, to His mouth. I've noticed this progression in some Saints. For example, St Therese of Lisieux takes the Religious Name 'of the Child Jesus', but later in her Calling becomes fixated on the Holy Face, eventually requesting if she can add 'and of the Holy Face' from her superiors.
Likewise, I started at the foot of the cross, a child. Good Friday last year I grew fixated on St John, and the Orthodox Imagery of him lying against his chest made me want to grow closer to Jesus. Doing so in Prayer, I experienced 'the Void' - God revealing his immensity and my littleness, and this is where I began Transient Mystic States of Prayer. Just before the Monastery closed down last December, the Nuns enrolled me and granted me all the spiritual benefits, privileges, penances and prayer of the Carmelite order. They gave me an old sculptured Holy Face mounted on a Coptic Cross that one of the Nuns had brought back from Lourdes 50 years before, and I fixated on it. The next day, my friend Bill gave me a lenticular picture of the face of Jesus and his face in the Shroud of Turin. Not coincidence, but Divine Providence. These are now my focus during contemplative prayer.
The 'Classics of Western Spirituality' version by Suzanne Noffke, OP, is the easiest to read translation I've found. However, I did find a little book for $3 last year: "The Steps of Love in the dialogue of St Catherina of Siena" by Mary Ann Follmar, which is a very simple version focused on the Love aspect, and dialing down what might unnecessarily-scare those who don't understand what is being said. As it says on the back:
"The dialogue of St Catherine of Siena usually meets with a bewildered response from readers because of its deeply-mystical language."
I believe someone in the Purgative Way could read 'The Steps of Love' and understand the Dialogue's core teachings.
Here's a perfect example of 'God as Feared Judge' / Pharisee-style ridiculous Legalism from a recent 'The Catholic Weekly':
By contrast, here's an list of what is still forbidden under Jewish Law on a Saturday, from an Orthodox Website:
https://www.ou.org/holidays/shabbat/the_thirty_nine_categories_of_sabbath_work_prohibited_by_law/
One example: you're not allowed to Burn anything. Note, as in the example from the paper, the sheer pettiness of it.
So, what happens when Jesus reveals the Perfection of the Law of Love, not Fear?
By contrast, here's an list of what is still forbidden under Jewish Law on a Saturday, from an Orthodox Website:
https://www.ou.org/holidays/shabbat/the_thirty_nine_categories_of_sabbath_work_prohibited_by_law/
One example: you're not allowed to Burn anything. Note, as in the example from the paper, the sheer pettiness of it.
So, what happens when Jesus reveals the Perfection of the Law of Love, not Fear?
^Not to mention that the practice of using shabbos goyim to perform forbidden acts on the Sabbath entices those goyim to behave (theoretically) sinfully. This lends itself to the idea that hiring someone to do wrong on your behalf is not necessarily sinful.
Of course you have to be thinking like a (((lawyer))) for that to make sense, not drawing from the divine.
Of course you have to be thinking like a (((lawyer))) for that to make sense, not drawing from the divine.
Leonard D Neubache said:
Yeah I read something about the Jews in cities running certain lines between buildings which them makes that whole neighborhood count as their 'home' for Sabbath purposes... yeah, you have to have that legalistic mind to think you're fooling God I guess.
The moral complexity of Catholicism seems to be that it isn't just a matter of Black and White Condemnation for Sin, and that God's Judgment is far more complex, particularly as Mercy is stressed.
This is the Catechism's teaching on Masturbation. Pay particular attention to the second paragraph:
Before anyone screams 'Vatican II Satanists' at me, this is clearly-discussed multiple times by St Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologiae (from 1275). Such as in - bear with me, I'm still learning how to cite it - (ST I-II, q.77, a.7, s.c.):
This is why, if you have a dirty dream, you haven't sinned, because you don't have the use of reason when you're unconscious.
I once told a Priest how worried I was for a friend who was badly-damaged by his parents in childhood, and so reacts to stressful events and ego frustrations as a hurt child would. He said not to worry, and that "God will judge him as the child he is, not the man he appears to be."
The easiest way for Beginners in the Purgative Way to understand God as Loving Father would be the writings of St Therese of Lisieux, particularly for those who never had a loving Father in their life to begin with. Her teachings were considered groundbreaking for their time, whilst also being what was clearly always in scripture, and I've seen enough links between what she is teaching and previous Mystics and / or Saints and those that came after to recognise their mystical truth.
Here's an 8 page explanation of her Teaching on Avoiding Purgatory altogether through Loving and Trusting in God as a Child Loves Its Father:
http://www.catholicapologetics.org/St Theresa on Purgatory.pdf
This is a perfect document to read at a time like now, where we are currently cut off from Confession, and some of us might be at risk of death without receiving absolution or the Anointing of the Sick.* You might approach God with nothing to rely on but his mercy, which makes you incredibly-lucky.
The best way to learn to obey His will is through Love, not Fear. This would tie back to Freedom For Excellence, which I'll write a breakdown of soon.
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* I believe the Covid Risk is being hysterically-overstated.
This is the Catechism's teaching on Masturbation. Pay particular attention to the second paragraph:
Before anyone screams 'Vatican II Satanists' at me, this is clearly-discussed multiple times by St Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologiae (from 1275). Such as in - bear with me, I'm still learning how to cite it - (ST I-II, q.77, a.7, s.c.):
This is why, if you have a dirty dream, you haven't sinned, because you don't have the use of reason when you're unconscious.
I once told a Priest how worried I was for a friend who was badly-damaged by his parents in childhood, and so reacts to stressful events and ego frustrations as a hurt child would. He said not to worry, and that "God will judge him as the child he is, not the man he appears to be."
The easiest way for Beginners in the Purgative Way to understand God as Loving Father would be the writings of St Therese of Lisieux, particularly for those who never had a loving Father in their life to begin with. Her teachings were considered groundbreaking for their time, whilst also being what was clearly always in scripture, and I've seen enough links between what she is teaching and previous Mystics and / or Saints and those that came after to recognise their mystical truth.
Here's an 8 page explanation of her Teaching on Avoiding Purgatory altogether through Loving and Trusting in God as a Child Loves Its Father:
http://www.catholicapologetics.org/St Theresa on Purgatory.pdf
This is a perfect document to read at a time like now, where we are currently cut off from Confession, and some of us might be at risk of death without receiving absolution or the Anointing of the Sick.* You might approach God with nothing to rely on but his mercy, which makes you incredibly-lucky.
The best way to learn to obey His will is through Love, not Fear. This would tie back to Freedom For Excellence, which I'll write a breakdown of soon.
------
* I believe the Covid Risk is being hysterically-overstated.