The HEROES ACT- COVID Relief Stimulus Package 2.0

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Why stop there? If we're just blasting off random subsidies based on feels rather than the current situation, we might as well take it all the way:

1) 1 trillion dollars to states
1) 10 trillion dollars to states

2) Additional $1200 per person.
2) Additional $12000 per person.

3) $1200 per child
3) $12000 per child

4) $10,000 given to students with student debt.
4) $100,000 given to students with student debt.

5) 1 year rent freeze
5) 10 year rent freeze

6) 1 year mortgage freeze
6) 10 year mortgage freeze

7) $1200 for illegal immigrants who have an ITIN card and pay taxes
7) $12000 for illegal immigrants

8) 4.8 billion for COVID research
8) 40.8 billion for COVID research

9) Expand unemployment benefits until January 2021
9) Expand unemployment benefits until January 2031

10) Expand the SNAP program
10) Expand all welfare programs
Too much?
 

paninaro

Woodpecker
The treasury.

The US has money, its just not distributed properly. To put it into perspective, the Iraq War during the reign of George Bush cost 7 trillion dollars. This stimulus is barely half of that.
This new bill is $3 trillion. We already spent about $3 trillion so far on the previous corona virus bills. It's just too much spending. It's all borrowed money that eventually needs to be paid back, and I don't like the idea of saddling the next generation with our debt just because we can't be fiscally responsible.
 
This new bill is $3 trillion. We already spent about $3 trillion so far on the previous corona virus bills. It's just too much spending. It's all borrowed money that eventually needs to be paid back, and I don't like the idea of saddling the next generation with our debt just because we can't be fiscally responsible.
there's no stopping it. It's impossible to pay off the debt without hyperinflation or defaulting. make your time.
 
Interesting. Look at us bicker over money that isn't ours? Each convinced we know who deserves it best (usually picking the one we are part of first)
The idea of eliminating student debt actually might be the best choice. I've slept on this and changed my opinion.

Students have been the last great economic bubble keeping us afloat in general since the 2008 housing bubble popped. Now we've sent them all home and said stay inside and stop spending your loan money.
So naturally, give it back--for the sake of preventing further economic fallout.

But illegals? What the hell? I think the only money they should get is to be sent home. Borders should be closed and in many cases they are.

there's no stopping it. It's impossible to pay off the debt without hyperinflation or defaulting. make your time.
Hyperinflation is already happening in the grocery stores. It's been happening slowly since 2008 (and before, but moreso since 08) and now its ramped up even further. At this rate a single egg will cost the price of a dozen before the government re-opens.

Time to work on those homesteads gents.
 

bucky

Pelican
Second relief stimulus bill coming America's way, also known as the Heroes Act!

House to vote on Democrats' $3T coronavirus 'HEROES' aid: Stimulus checks, money for states, rent assistance


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...rus-heroes-aid-stimulus-checks-money-n1207816

Main components of it.

1) 1 trillion dollars to states

2) Additional $1200 per person.

3) $1200 per child

4) $10,000 given to students with student debt.

5) 1 year rent freeze

6) 1 year mortgage freeze

7) $1200 for illegal immigrants who have an ITIN card and pay taxes

8) 4.8 billion for COVID reasearch

9) Expand unemployment benefits until January 2021

10) Expand the SNAP program



Thoughts?
My wife had an ITIN and not an SSN last year so we don't qualify for any of this, therefore I oppose it. $1,200 per child this time, huh? At this point I could afford a pretty good used car with all the free money they're handing out if I'd just followed the 14/88 guys' advice and not fallen for the charms of a woman whose skin tone happens to be a few shades darker than mine. Doh.

You'd think they could just not pay out for the foreign spouse with the ITIN while giving up the cash for the citizen spouse and children, but no. Thanks, Trump. Thanks a lot.

I jest, it's probably a bad idea regardless, but it would be nice to get in on the free for all and stock up on gold and guns, exchange it for Swiss Francs, or whatever, before hyperinflation hits.
 

bucky

Pelican
Why stop there? If we're just blasting off random subsidies based on feels rather than the current situation, we might as well take it all the way:



Too much?
That was always a question of mine about Yang's UBI. If 1k a month for everyone is feasible, why not 5k? Or 10k? I get that part of the reason is to not discourage people from actually working, but my question was more how much free money can the government realistically create out of thin air before the whole system collapses? Is there a limit? Seems like their would be, but a lot of people, both policy-makers and everyday citizens, seem to assume there isn't.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Why stop there? If we're just blasting off random subsidies based on feels rather than the current situation, we might as well take it all the way:



Too much?
Because the numbers in this $3 trillion stimulus bill are in line with our other wasteful spending.

$7 trillion for a war in Iraq that everyone admits was a mistake and yet is STILL GOING ON now 17 years later.
God know how many trillions in Afghanistan to "Get Osama Bin Ladin", whom has been dead now 9 years and likely didn't organize 9/11 on his own.
$5 trillion just handed to billionaires by the Trump administration in the last few months. The Federal Reserve buying up bad ETF investments to prop up billionaire investment firms (Blackrock Financial is the biggest) so they can then take the money and go buy up investments in China.
$1 trillion in 2009 just handed to bankers to caused a financial crisis.

So if the war makers and bankers destroying this country can just be handed $13 trillion dollars, then We the People who have been destroyed by this system deserve $3 trillion minimum. Your numbers push it up to $30 trillion, which isn't reasonable. $3 trillion is in the ballpark and easy to defend.

I know you guys are upset we are throwing money away, but if the bankers and war makers get free money, then it is time we start demanding it too.

What pisses me off the most is Trump and the GOP has allowed the Democrats to completely outflank him on this issue. Trump and the GOP could have come up with a similar stimulus package, but it excludes illegal aliens and made it $2 trillion and sold this to the American people. Instead they let the Democrats pass this bill and their response is "we can't afford it". Now the GOP will vote it down and the uninformed swing voters see the Democrats pass a bill to help them save their houses from foreclosure and the GOP is on record of saying "go to hell and lose your house".
 

bucky

Pelican
Because the numbers in this $3 trillion stimulus bill are in line with our other wasteful spending.

$7 trillion for a war in Iraq that everyone admits was a mistake and yet is STILL GOING ON now 17 years later.
God know how many trillions in Afghanistan to "Get Osama Bin Ladin", whom has been dead now 9 years and likely didn't organize 9/11 on his own.
$5 trillion just handed to billionaires by the Trump administration in the last few months. The Federal Reserve buying up bad ETF investments to prop up billionaire investment firms (Blackrock Financial is the biggest) so they can then take the money and go buy up investments in China.
$1 trillion in 2009 just handed to bankers to caused a financial crisis.

So if the war makers and bankers destroying this country can just be handed $13 trillion dollars, then We the People who have been destroyed by this system deserve $3 trillion minimum. Your numbers push it up to $30 trillion, which isn't reasonable. $3 trillion is in the ballpark and easy to defend.

I know you guys are upset we are throwing money away, but if the bankers and war makers get free money, then it is time we start demanding it too.

What pisses me off the most is Trump and the GOP has allowed the Democrats to completely outflank him on this issue. Trump and the GOP could have come up with a similar stimulus package, but it excludes illegal aliens and made it $2 trillion and sold this to the American people. Instead they let the Democrats pass this bill and their response is "we can't afford it". Now the GOP will vote it down and the uninformed swing voters see the Democrats pass a bill to help them save their houses from foreclosure and the GOP is on record of saying "go to hell and lose your house".
Hey, who knows, you might be right. I certainly don't know. As part of the minority who knows how many billions are in a trillion, every time they generate new trillions I feel very nervous, but who knows, maybe things will keep stumbling along more or less as they have my entire life, getting gradually worse but tolerably so. I hope so. As much as things have gotten worse in the US since I was a young man in the 1980s and 1990s, it's still vastly better here than in most of the world. That's why people come here to stay by the millions every year.

Between the trillions in fiat money and millions of new third worlders every year it all strikes me as unsustainable, but maybe it isn't somehow. When we had that little blip two months ago when supermarket shelves were almost empty for a week I thought this is it, the whole system is finally crashing as I've always thought it would, but then it more or less recovered. I even saw huge pallets of TP at Costco the last time I went, a few days ago. It will be interesting to see if there is a big spike in homelessness by the end of the year, but maybe not.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Hey, who knows, you might be right. I certainly don't know. As part of the minority who knows how many billions are in a trillion, every time they generate new trillions I feel very nervous, but who knows, maybe things will keep stumbling along more or less as they have my entire life, getting gradually worse but tolerably so. I hope so. As much as things have gotten worse in the US since I was a young man in the 1980s and 1990s, it's still vastly better here than in most of the world. That's why people come here to stay by the millions every year.

Between the trillions in fiat money and millions of new third worlders every year it all strikes me as unsustainable, but maybe it isn't somehow. When we had that little blip two months ago when supermarket shelves were almost empty for a week I thought this is it, the whole system is finally crashing as I've always thought it would, but then it more or less recovered. I even saw huge pallets of TP at Costco the last time I went, a few days ago. It will be interesting to see if there is a big spike in homelessness by the end of the year, but maybe not.
The reason you get nervous when they generate new trillions of dollars is because you are an intelligent, rational person who knows this cannot end well.

I don't support this because of long term stability. I support this because billionaires have been plundering our country for decades on end and finally the people are saying "hey, what about us". Finally JFK's comment of "ask not what your country can do for you" has been rightfully turned around on them and now we say "you stole from us for years, you lied to us, so now in our time of need, when we are cornered, we ask what the hell CAN you do for us?".

As for the rest of your comment, you are correct. This isn't a sustainable system. And there isn't a political solution for it either. So the quicker and more men that realize it, the better we can be prepared for when this thing comes crashing down and the elites run off to China to set up the next world power they operate from behind the curtain.
 
What pisses me off the most is Trump and the GOP has allowed the Democrats to completely outflank him on this issue. Trump and the GOP could have come up with a similar stimulus package, but it excludes illegal aliens and made it $2 trillion and sold this to the American people. Instead they let the Democrats pass this bill and their response is "we can't afford it". Now the GOP will vote it down and the uninformed swing voters see the Democrats pass a bill to help them save their houses from foreclosure and the GOP is on record of saying "go to hell and lose your house".
No, the House has (for the time being) the lead on calling the shots since the 2018 election. Sadly, the president and GOP can only react because of where bills originate. I'm not saying they would be doing anything good, but it would be better (not saying much given these Dems), however it is immaterial because of the legislative process.

The Dems are overplaying their hand again. They have a modus operandi winner here with more free money to further hook people, but they want even more (voting identification issues, etc) instead of just taking the easy win. It's another bad, chaotic, move. I believe they will lose the House in 2020 as well, because California will flip enough to make it a turnaround from 2018, due to stupid Newsom bailout attempts. But notice that helps his 2024 bid, in a roundabout way. All in all, I think they know the election is lost so they are saying, what the hell, let's just go full chaos and try to get a bailout. I foresee small majorities of House and Senate Republicans and President Trump again in 2020 so it'll be quite an "interesting" time (read: meltdown).
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
No, the House has (for the time being) the lead on calling the shots since the 2018 election. Sadly, the president and GOP can only react because of where bills originate. I'm not saying they would be doing anything good, but it would be better (not saying much given these Dems), however it is immaterial because of the legislative process.

The Dems are overplaying their hand again. They have a modus operandi winner here with more free money to further hook people, but they want even more (voting identification issues, etc) instead of just taking the easy win. It's another bad, chaotic, move. I believe they will lose the House in 2020 as well, because California will flip enough to make it a turnaround from 2018, due to stupid Newsom bailout attempts. But notice that helps his 2024 bid, in a roundabout way. All in all, I think they know the election is lost so they are saying, what the hell, let's just go full chaos and try to get a bailout. I foresee small majorities of House and Senate Republicans and President Trump again in 2020 so it'll be quite an "interesting" time (read: meltdown).
I'm not saying the GOP can just create $2 trillion out of thin air without Democrat approval.

I am saying Trump with the bully pulpit and the GOP behind him could draw up a similar bill to help the American people but make it say "$1 trillion" and cut out all the liberal nonsense like giving illegal aliens everything they want, and then take it straight to twitter and straight to the American people.

In the end the same thing would happen. Nothing would be passed (as this bill will never pass the Senate) but at least the GOP would be on the record with trying to help the American people rather than on record of saying "tough luck".

I don't think the Democrats lose any ground in 2020, and if they do, it is a strategic retreat. The Democrats know that in 10 years they will run this country top to bottom due to demographic changes. The powers that be who pull the strings behind the curtain know this as well. So if the Democrats have to push a message in 2020 that costs them a few seats, but the message angers old aged Trump voters and excites 15 year old immigrants, then they will be rewarded greatly for that for the next 60 years.
 

ball dont lie

Kingfisher
Gold Member
The 10k to pay college loans is bullshit.

I'm a while out of university, but some years ago I looked at the debt and decided to work 60 hours weeks for a few years. Everything was paid off in a hurry. It was a rough few years, but then I had zero debt and starting to put all that money into savings and retirement.

Why should other people get 10k for essentially being layabout assholes.

Working two jobs, saving as much as possible, riding a bike and not having a car. These are things everyone could have done, but chose of their own free will, not to.

Now they get a benefit for that?
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
The 10k to pay college loans is bullshit.

I'm a while out of university, but some years ago I looked at the debt and decided to work 60 hours weeks for a few years. Everything was paid off in a hurry. It was a rough few years, but then I had zero debt and starting to put all that money into savings and retirement.

Why should other people get 10k for essentially being layabout assholes.

Working two jobs, saving as much as possible, riding a bike and not having a car. These are things everyone could have done, but chose of their own free will, not to.

Now they get a benefit for that?
It certainly is not fair at all. If we had the same USD strength, job security, affordable safe neighborhoods my grandparents and my ancestors before them enjoyed in the USA I would have all the things I could dream of in life. But instead I continue to work 7 days a week, now 20 years in a row, and living like a college student so I can save every penny.

But any take that goes after the billionaire class that caused this is a good start. If more people start demanding money from the government they will have a serious problem on their hands.

Instead of a $10,000 student debt reduction, it should be everyone gets a set amount of money (which they could then choose to apply it to student loans) and then the real kicker would be cracking down on college tuition costs which have skyrocketed due to big increases in administrative costs (make jobs program) and professor salaries.
 
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