The Importance Of Childhood Discipline

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Originally posted on RooshV.com

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Before I became a Christian, I did not understand what was the big deal about disciplining children. Humans are merely a type of animal, I thought, and young animals will act like animals until they figure it out someday through random osmosis. I was completely wrong. Disciplining children is the best way to prepare fallen little souls to fully worship their Creator as mature adults.

You should not be surprised to know that as a child I was never properly disciplined. I was beaten many times, with instruments such as brooms and sticks, and when I became a teenager, my mother found it more useful to throw objects at me such as flashlights, or whatever happened to be nearby, but not once was I disciplined. My parents never sat me down, told me why my behavior was wrong, the moral consequences of that behavior, and then—without passion—gave me a few methodical slaps on the behind. Instead, the beatings came when my parents had had enough, when they were in a bad mood, when they had a difficult day at work, or when they were angry at their lot in life. Throughout my entire childhood, I was beaten not only because of my behavior, but because of the turbulent emotional states of my parents, particularly my mother, who gave me 98% of my whuppings.

For example, for 29 consecutive days I could disobey my mother and not take out the trash. She would not say a word about it, but then on day 30, because she had a long day at work, she would be furious at my disobedience, and I would get a beating. As an insolent youth, I calculated that it was in my favor never to take out the trash, because the one-minute beating would come infrequently, if at all, and those beatings never came with any lasting punishment that required me to change my behavior. I therefore linked my beatings not to my behavior but to my mother’s mood. I became accomplished at reading my parents’ body language, tone, and facial expressions, but I never fully conformed to their will. I only obeyed them when I felt like it or needed something from them in return. I certainly was never taught a Christian morality that would keep me away from sin as an adult.

Recently I was invited for dinner at the home of a married Orthodox couple with four young children. I noticed something that I had rarely seen before: the parents verbally disciplined their children throughout the time I was there, and explained to the children why they were being disciplined. I never saw the parents just let things slide, even if they were occupied, which is what my parents did so often with me, because if the child learns they can get away with certain behaviors, perhaps if a guest is in the home or they are out in public, the discipline starts to lose its effectiveness and the little one develops a sneaky manipulation and willfulness.

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What struck me about the disciplinary method of the Orthodox parents is the constant and consistent nature of it. Kids will be unruly and brazen, and so every few minutes something happened that was an opportunity for discipline in a patient and loving way, never in anger like with my parents. The fruit of this discipline was obvious. The children, in spite of their minor mistakes, behave like angels in my eyes. They have no flaws that I can perceive. Without exaggeration, I can state that they are the most well-behaved children I have encountered in my life, and they are also sweet and kind, but they weren’t born like this—they were molded through the Orthodox faith of their parents, who know that the discipline which demands parental obedience prepares them to obey God and one day enter His Kingdom.

Without any discipline, a child grows up to be a feral adult, chafed at following any type of authority, whether human or divine, developing a level of pride that is even higher than God Himself. It’s no shock that males grown up in single-mom households, where discipline is often lacking, grow up to be derelicts and criminals, and while I saw my father weekly after my parents’ divorce, I did not receive discipline from him, and went on to become a derelict myself and cause incredible damage to the world by enabling tens of thousands of men to commit sin. In my case, “Spare the rod, spoil the child” became “Spare the rod, watch your child become a demon.”

Imagine a woman who wasn’t disciplined as a child. She was always treated like a princess and trained to develop self-esteem, self-confidence, and masculine aggression. She did not obey her parents to not get those tattoos and she certainly doesn’t obey God, but one day she will faithfully obey a man who becomes her husband. Hah! Such an assertion only exists in the mashed potato mind of the lustful man who wants to passionately possess her body. She will put on the veneer of obedience so that he falls in love with her and gives her a fairy tale wedding, enhancing the narrative in her mind of a woman who is worthy of a man’s devoted love, but how long will that pleasantness last before she morphs into a terror? Five years… one year… maybe one month?! If a woman doesn’t obey God, her Creator, she will not obey a mortal man for long, no matter how attractive or rich he is.

I look at the little children of the Orthodox family and see that they possessed stronger will than when I was a grown man, all because they were disciplined from the beginning while I was not. How lucky will they be to start off adulthood with not only the knowledge of God that is taught to them through the Orthodox Church, but also the mental and emotional faculties to follow Him. I’m 42 years old and still straining to develop those very faculties.

I do not lament my past and the fact that I was brought into the Church at the 11th hour. Based on my secular and lax upbringing, I consider myself lucky, because how many people, whose parents did not discipline them, get so lost in their disobedience against God that they never come to develop the faith? In such cases, the failure of the parents will lead to the condemnation of the soul of the child. If I ever have children, I will not be their friend or “cool” dad—no, I will be the loving drillmaster, and grind away at their fallen and evil will so that it is supple enough to obey God’s will, and may they then receive God in all His grace like their old dad.

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Suburban Yahoo

Robin
Protestant
Boomers hate their children--look at all those abortions and divorces--so it's no surprise they didn't care to discipline them.

But it was Boomers' parents that started it; rootlessness and materialism took deep hold in the migrations to suburbia in the 50s, and parents plopped their kids down in front of the TV for the One-Eyed Jew to raise them. I suspect these parents were exhausted by the Depression and WW2 and mailed it all in afterwards.
 

christie2

Woodpecker
Woman
Non-Christian
I am very sorry that you experienced these instrument beatings.

In the words of a secular character in film 'Good Will Hunting'.... "this wasn't your fault"

Your life example in that you forgive your parents(mother) and still honour them, is strong and imitation worthy.

That's brave and honest to share and important to remember in your approach to finding a wife and children.

Our interactions in childhood with our opposite gender parent can create extra challenges when preparing for your future spouse.

I feel sorrow you experience(d) these challenges.

Keep working hard.
It was an excellent way your shared thoughts were communicated in this article!
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Now that I have a small child and, thanks be to God, second one is due very soon, my wife and I, we discuss our immigrant upbringing a lot. Thus, we want to avoid mistakes our parents did with us when raising our children.

I also grew up in a household where parental behavior was mainly reactive, oftentimes to the extreme - screaming, throwing things, constant personal attacks, mockery, humiliation and so on.

There was no effective, calm communication between anyone in the family. It was chaos and disorder.

And yet, understanding how destructive such behavior is, I still tend to get annoyed or irritated with small, insignificant things. So I ask God to give with wisdom and patience, to be "slow to anger and quick to forgive". Because it is in our power, through Lord's grace, to break from the vicious circle of misery and self-inflicted unnecessary suffering to rare our children to be better.

I have also observed many children from various backgrounds, and the ones whose behavior and attitudes I liked the most, were from practicing Orthodox families.
 

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
It's crazy how synchronistic some of these articles are. I was literally thinking about this yesterday as I tried to explain to my girlfriend that we are essentially doomed as a relationship since it was forged in sin, and we both come from the same kind of undisciplined secular background Roosh discusses. The only way we can salvage it is if we renew our minds and spirits through faith and the Church. Often, I feel inextricably linked with her and am tempted to go off alone and pursue spiritual calm so I can correct myself and be a worthy husband. I should speak to a priest who can give me better insights.

If a seed is planted in bad soil the plant will struggle to grow properly. Luckily for us, God does not require the best soil for his plants, which somehow find a way in harsh conditions to move towards the light.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
It's crazy how synchronistic some of these articles are.
Same experience, was just thinking about this this weekend. I had a very loving upbringing, but the ship needs two sides to be in balance: love (mother) and discipline (father). My father gew up in the 60s and sadly fell for many of the relativistic ideas of his time, which looked great for teenagers back then but almost without an exception ended up drastically bad, which people living meaningless lives, confused about masculinity, how to raise children, how to do anything in life, as their map (Christianity and tradition) was taken away from them. Also confidence was a key concept in my upbringing: I remember my mother saying that was a concept that was big in the 70s. It's only recently that I could link that (60s/70s were the breeding ground for modern day relativism, secularism and the resulting meaninglesness/nihilism/confusion) to problems that arose in me later. Short story: there was no discipline or masculine influence and everything was love, which made the ship tilt towards one side. When a ship tilts towards one side and there is no balance, it will fall to the side and sink. It can't stay afloat, it's impossible. Life and your delusions will crush you and you'll be a boxer in the ropes until you've gotten enough hits to finally bite back and wrestle away from the attacker.

The fact that this balance has been taken away by the 60s/70s revolutionary, leftist, relativist, atheist and secular ideas is the number one reason kids are collapsing like ships tilted to one side, as masculinity fades away more and more the fall becomes quicker and quicker. Sadly our parents don't do this with bad intentions, mine certainly didn't, but it takes a lot of soul searching for a child to get back to a sense of reality and truth after being raised that way, have been collapsed and have been on the wrong road for such a long time. The longer you're on the wrong path the further away you're from the goal, the deeper you're in the jungle. We must pray for the children of today, who are in the claws of the digital/social media system from the moment they can operate a Smartphone or computer.
 

Ah_Tibor

Pelican
Woman
Orthodox
But it was Boomers' parents that started it; rootlessness and materialism took deep hold in the migrations to suburbia in the 50s, and parents plopped their kids down in front of the TV for the One-Eyed Jew to raise them. I suspect these parents were exhausted by the Depression and WW2 and mailed it all in afterwards.
I think it started even before that in the Great Unwashed era. Public school was created to reign in unruly immigrant spawn kids, for better or for worse.

My husband and I talk a lot about how TV was/is used as a babysitter; millenials get nostalgic for the dumbest things because of emotional attachments to media.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Protestant
My husband and I talk a lot about how TV was/is used as a babysitter; millenials get nostalgic for the dumbest things because of emotional attachments to media.
Then the pitbull and part coyote dog babysitters I use might pose a huge threat to the status quo. I told my urban, private Christian schooled 6 year old niece we didn't ever see commercials the other day, and she looked at me like I had a third eye.
 

SwedishIstrian

Chicken
Orthodox Catechumen
The banishment of physical punishment was a great turning point. The debate around it implicitly was about a childs right not to be disciplined. Any punishment is about being put in discomfort, wether physical or verbal, revoking of priviliges etc.

I'm a parent of two toddlers and have not figured it out. Spanking is illegal in Sweden.
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Yes it's baffling how many Christians let their children watch TV. Our daughter sees TV's out at restaurants sometimes, but they don't have any authority in her mind as there are none in our home and we don't pay attention to them when we see them in public spaces.
Spot on. I've never had cable in my entire life. The only time I might watch a bit of TV is when Im in a public place like a shopping mall or when staying at a hotel. And, its like with alcohol, if you're not accustomed to a regular consumption, even a small doze might make you feel bad.

So, when I watch just a minute or two of your regular TV programming, I start feeling uneasy and disoriented. Cant imagine having it on in your house day in, day out.

We're trying our best to keep our kid screen free, but once in a while we'd watch a carefully chosen movie or a cartoon all together.

Christian doesnt automatically mean red pilled. There are lots of normie Christians, especially among boomers.
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
The banishment of physical punishment was a great turning point. The debate around it implicitly was about a childs right not to be disciplined. Any punishment is about being put in discomfort, wether physical or verbal, revoking of priviliges etc.

I'm a parent of two toddlers and have not figured it out. Spanking is illegal in Sweden.
Also having any type of cojones is illegal in Sweden.
 

Ah_Tibor

Pelican
Woman
Orthodox
The best behaved children I've known come from a Catholic family where parents lovingly discipline them, own no tv and greatly limit internet usage. Makes one think...

I think the key to raising kids is 1) be consistent 2) don't give in 3) curate your media.

Most of my friends who grew up to be immature adults (including those who grew up in relatively conservative Orthodox homes) were spoiled as kids.

I also don't think boomers recognized the scale or weirdness of the internet, or they did and caved (there was a lot more fear when it started coming into people's lives and some of it was probably justified), or just how bad movies and TV are compared to even 15 years ago.
 

Sargon2112

Woodpecker
Protestant
I also don't think boomers recognized the scale or weirdness of the internet, or they did and caved (there was a lot more fear when it started coming into people's lives and some of it was probably justified), or just how bad movies and TV are compared to even 15 years ago.

It requires a constant effort on the part of my wife and me, to keep my Mom from handing the tv remote and other internet/media devices over to our two kids when we are at her house. My parents are Silents (77), but only a couple of years older than the Boomers, so there is overlap for sure. They never took on the over-consumption, hedonistic Boomer traits, but, as @Ah_Tibor described, they simply don't grasp how dangerous the internet and media in general are, especially to young children. Their trust in established authority, by default, is also a tough barrier to get through, although I must note that they saw through the covid nonsense surprisingly fast.

The Orthodox family mentioned by Roosh are certainly a model to be emulated.
 

Ah_Tibor

Pelican
Woman
Orthodox
They never took on the over-consumption, hedonistic Boomer traits, but, as @Ah_Tibor described, they simply don't grasp how dangerous the internet and media in general are, especially to young children. Their trust in established authority, by default, is also a tough barrier to get through, although I must note that they saw through the covid nonsense surprisingly fast.

I've noticed a general pattern is that older people are more likely to see that it's BS because they've lived through multiple societal scares, and they're at an age where breaking a hip or seeing your friends die is part of life.

I was talking to my mom the other day and she mentioned how bad inflation was in the 70s, and it was a generally bad decade for working-class people. The psychological warfare is way worse than it ever was, though.
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
It requires a constant effort on the part of my wife and me, to keep my Mom from handing the tv remote and other internet/media devices over to our two kids when we are at her house. My parents are Silents (77), but only a couple of years older than the Boomers, so there is overlap for sure. They never took on the over-consumption, hedonistic Boomer traits, but, as @Ah_Tibor described, they simply don't grasp how dangerous the internet and media in general are, especially to young children. Their trust in established authority, by default, is also a tough barrier to get through, although I must note that they saw through the covid nonsense surprisingly fast.

The Orthodox family mentioned by Roosh are certainly a model to be emulated.
Same here, my in-laws (albeit from South America), have TV on all the time. Interesting enough, it is in Spanish, but the agenda is almost copy and paste what globohomo broadcasts in the West.

Anyways, they're staying with us now for a few months, and we made it clear to them that there should be no screens exposure to our son.
 

peacemom

Pigeon
Woman
Catholic
After being widowed my in laws decided to move in with me. They have a hard time saying no to their grandbaby which leads him to acting out against them particularly. I on the other hand thankfully have my son's respect cause i don't play games, he listens to me. To be fair i don't think their generation was as immersed and educated on techniques to raise children, they tend to act on instinct- raising voice, panicking. I think we are more calculated nowadays.
 
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