The Inevitability of Moral Breakdown in Democracies Where All Can Vote

Rob Banks

Pelican
Do you believe that there is no one on earth that has the leadership ability to subjugate technology to the interest of greater civilization? That's as absurd as the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" boomerism. It's true for 99.5% of humanity, but not the rare half of a percent. The wrong people always get power in prole-rule government like democracy. It rewards idiocy, sociopathy, lies, degeneracy and manipulation. Tyranny is the love of power hungry idiots.

What is ideology? It's people's projection of their fears, weaknesses and lust for power on to nature attempting to change or deny it. It's people trying to contort nature in their image. It's hubris.

Ethnonationalism is simply self-interest and drive towards self-determination broadened to a tribe, and has been the natural state of man for tens of thousands of years.

The distortions of Christianity, or the leftist takeover of Christianity as I call it, is my point. Everyone turning to Jesus will not save civilization because religion has been proven to fold up under political pressure. When the pope is a commie globalist, the Church has been infiltrated by the Gay Mafia and female leadership, the followers are rewarded for cucking to demographic change and LGBT, and few if any people care about its esotericism in the interest of exclusivity, then you know the religion is on its deathbed. I could say this about any religion.

I didn't say Christianity will die out. The keyword I used is IF. Some argue that it's just a shell of its former self. It's hard to argue with them, but it may gain its former glory if and only if America and Europe get over equality, pacifism, tolerance, exclusivity, diversity and individualism, and instead turn towards what made Ancient and Medieval Europeans great at their peaks, which has nothing to do with ideology.
Do you really think it is merely a coincidence that the Church and other societal institutions are being subverted by leftists and the same point in history when modern technology was developed and implemented?

There certainly are good people who could run the system and not become corrupted. But the very system prevents those people from getting into power. And even if they do get into power occasionally (e.g. like Franco in Spain), they won’t remain in power very long.

And yes, I know Franco remained in power until he died, but look what Spain is like now less than 50 years later.

You can’t have it both ways (a moral society that is also technologically advanced).

Some individuals might be able to live in a technologically-advanced world and still behave righteously and raise virtuous families (e.g. many men on this forum), but they are a minority. And even a man like that should see that the technologically-advanced world is likely to corrupt his descendants after he is dead.

Just look at how many traditional church-going families from Italy and Ireland immigrated to America in recent history, and now the grandchildren and great-grandchildren (3rd- and 4th-generation Americans) are totally americanized and modernized.
 

Gremlin

Sparrow
Do you really think it is merely a coincidence that the Church and other societal institutions are being subverted by leftists and the same point in history when modern technology was developed and implemented?

There certainly are good people who could run the system and not become corrupted. But the very system prevents those people from getting into power. And even if they do get into power occasionally (e.g. like Franco in Spain), they won’t remain in power very long.

And yes, I know Franco remained in power until he died, but look what Spain is like now less than 50 years later.

You can’t have it both ways (a moral society that is also technologically advanced).

Some individuals might be able to live in a technologically-advanced world and still behave righteously and raise virtuous families (e.g. many men on this forum), but they are a minority. And even a man like that should see that the technologically-advanced world is likely to corrupt his descendants after he is dead.

Just look at how many traditional church-going families from Italy and Ireland immigrated to America in recent history, and now the grandchildren and great-grandchildren (3rd- and 4th-generation Americans) are totally americanized and modernized.
Modern technology in of itself isn't the problem, so much as it, like many other things, became institutionalized by leftism, i.e. ideology. Strong culture with a strong monarchy and hierarchy wouldn't allow technology to become the master, but would put it in its rightful place as a tool to serve culture.

The democratic prole rule system is what I reject completely. Even the occasional good leader like Trump can't make a Venus de Milo out of anal leakage.

Some individuals might be able to live in a technologically-advanced world and still behave righteously and raise virtuous families (e.g. many men on this forum), but they are a minority.

You mean like natural leaders, nobility and the intellectually/morally superior? Yes, a government and hierarchy that rewards these kinds of people, exiles the crazies and gives little heed to the average have historically gone a long way. These kinds of people are a minority now, were a minority in the past and will forever be a minority in any civilization. That's why populations are scattered on a bell curve.

Italians and Irish - as much as I get along with them - brought a lot of organized crime, industry destroying unions and democratic votes with them. They need their own ethnic states, too.

Americanized? Like the Wild West taming, prospering on new frontiers American or the urbanized, multicultural, progressive American?
 
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Rob Banks

Pelican
Interesting. He's clearly anti-capitalist though, something I am not. Capitalism seems to me to be the most just system of economics we have at our disposal. It's the corruption of capitalism toward communism that has led to the majority of the oppression people see in the system today.

A philosopher I once read suggested capitalism and communism led to the same outcomes in an ideal sense and neither were better or worse than the other but that it was the morality of the society as a whole which dictated the morality of the economic system itself. The main difference between the two is that capitalism is decentralized while communism is not which means it's actually easier to corrupt communism because you can do so with less people being corrupted; thus capitalism is better, presuming both societies are equal in their sense of morality. Meaning, in relation to what Matthew says, that if the whole society had a common sense of morality, then capitalism would be a desirable system because even though you may be competing on an individual level, you still maintain a common understanding of right and wrong and those that act immoral are disregarded by society at large. In relation to nationalism and unity, it is quite possible for people to set sub-priorities. Family first, then immediate community, then country while still weighing your own interests as well. You can still be nationalistic and competitive among your fellow countryman so as to make capitalism work effectively. It's no different than having a friendly game of chess; however, it requires a common moral code and men to both enforce and maintain that code among the social circles of society, otherwise the system degrades into what we have today.
Capitalism and communism are both bad. They are the results of the Industrial Revolution and technological advancement.

More accurately, capitalism is the result of the Industrial Revolution and communism is a reaction to capitalism.

Communists make a lot of good points in their criticism of capitalism, but the “solutions” they propose are useless. Some would even argue that the communist movement was co-opted and subverted by wealthy capitalists, and that communism and capitalism are actually allied with one another.
 
I'd suggest fascism with enforced Christian roots.
Now....to get people to go along with that, it's an almost insurmountable PR mountain to get over
You don't have to use the "f" word. There are political traditions in the Anglo-American world of using the power of the state to promote the small businessman/farmer/tradesman, stable families, and socially conservative cultural policies. Most recently you have the Southern Democrats. Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond were elected to statewide office in the living memory of most Americans. Branding matters.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
It is impossible to have technology and industrialism without it getting into the hands of the “wrong” people. If the current elite were not in power, it would just be another group of people just as bad.

Oh, and the people currently in charge are not “idiots.” They know exactly what they’re doing and why.

You know the old saying “Don’t assume malevolence until you can rule out incompetence”? I think it’s actually the opposite. Don’t assume incompetence until you can rule out malevolence.

Ethno-nationalism is, in fact, an ideology. Just because it’s an ideology you support or agree with doesn’t make it any less of an ideology.

Every example you gave against Christianity is actually a distortion of Christianity for political reasons (e.g. open borders because “Jesus loves everyone”).

What makes you think Christianity will die out?

If it does die out or become totally corrupted and unrecognizable (as recent trends have shown), then it will be because of the very ideologies and technological systems you defend.

This is a poor understanding of European/Christian history, you're throwing the baby with the bathwater here. Technological progress and industrialization has been a fundamental Christian value, it is only when it has been decoupled from labor and subjugated to pure capitalism that it turned evil.

European civilization has been forged by over a millennium of work by thousands of monasteries across the continent which have modernized hunter-gatherer tribes of western and northern Europe, introducing them to science and technology paired with a strong work ethic and centered with labor.

The motto of the Benedictine monks was "ora et labora", pray and work. They've pioneered modern metallurgy, textile mills, modern agriculture and other technology which propelled Europe to the forefront of civilization.

E. Michael Jones has described this well in Barren Metal:

 
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