The John F. Kennedy (JFK) assassination thread - 22 November 1963


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Gold Member
Kid Twist said:
Chris Brown said:
What about the bullet that hit Jfk from the front? How did Oswald do tat from the repository?

It didn't, watch the NOVA special.

NOVA/PBS are state propaganda, funded by deep state foundation money, and by now, thoroughly penetrated by Operation Mockingbird. Look at deep state tool Bill Moyers, he's been leading the media Muh Russia propaganda campaign with his bogus "Trump Russia Timeline", which has become the bible of the Impeach Trump crowd.

PBS was actually set up and designed right from the start as a device for social engineering. For example, shows like Sesame Street were used to normalize urban ghettos, which were a new thing in the 1960s, you had a character like Oscar who lived in a trash can, think about it.

This was the result of a deliberate plan for social engineering through urban planning and the destruction of ethnic European and Black blue collar neighborhoods:

You have the same normalization effort with autism, PBS and other shows are injecting autistic characters to normalize the disease that's being propagated through chemicals and vaccines.

Some of the PBS original directors were high-ranking military psyop brass. There was still an independent and critical element 15-20 years ago in investigative news shows like NOVA, but by now that element has been totally purged. You've had exactly the same dynamic in other leading left-wing media outlets like Mother Jones and The Nation, who are now solidly CFR/deep state outlets.


Basically over the last two decades in the US, you've had a demographic and political shift of the establishment from the Republican right to the democratic left. The deep state has managed to turn the traditionally antiwar left into Trotskyite neocons with Putin as the outside bogeyman and Trump as the domestic Emmanuel Goldstein/Literally Hitler figure. Along with an aggressive interventionist foreign policy keeping the military industrial complex afloat (all in the name of spreading democracy and human rights), there is also an increasingly aggressive green agenda used to overtax and control the populace with Agenda 21 austerity, to save it from the new peril global warming.

Bottom line, PBS and NOVA are sophisticated propaganda outlets, that most people trust because we grew up with them, and some of their content over the years has been good. But they are not to be trusted.


Gold Member
MOVSM said:

That graphic really helps to make my point about the third, final bullet, the one that destroys Kennedy's head.

Let's leave aside that, amusingly, the graphic conveniently omits the size of the exit wound from Kennedy, which, as I said, was smaller than the entry wound.

The graphic does, however, point to the velocity of the bullet as it entered and left various parts of the body.

The studies that Miatella points to had one significant result:

Shattering occurs when axial compressive stresses produce shearing and tensile hoop stresses which exceed the strength of the core material. The projectile breaks up near the nose since axial stress decreases from maximum to zero from nose to tail (this effect is intensified by reduced frontal cross sections).

At zero obliquity, a matching AP projectile will commonly defeat armor without breaking up. However, at obliquities greater than 20-degrees, the projectile will break up at moderate velocities (1500 ft/sec at 20.-degrees, 1000 ft/sec at 30-degrees). Bending stresses, which increase in severity with impact obliquity, add to the axial stresses, causing the projectile to break up.

The Carcano bullet when it hits Connolly is travelling at what would be considered a moderate velocity. It's a softer, less durable bullet than the armor-piercing projectiles used in the tests Miatella points to, but the substance it's acting on is also a lot softer than the titanium, aluminium, and steel plates the tests were conducted on. The Carcano bullet hits Connolly almost side-on, i.e. near full obliquity, while tumbling, i.e. spending its kinetic energy moment by moment, and thus subjecting it to less destructive pressures as it moves, i.e.e. avoiding the bullet shattering into a thousand pieces.

So: when the magic bullet hits JFK, there's no deformation because of a combination of relative softness of target substance and the fact it's hitting at a low degree of obliquity to the target.

This is why I have said that if CE399 was fired at Dealey Plaza, its condition is an expected result, or at least within physical possibility: a hit at full velocity and low obliquity followed by subsequent hits at high obliquity but low velocity, combined with a relatively soft target substance.

And that's precisely the point. The magic bullet is the control in this experiment. It's the expected result. The third, final bullet does something entirely inconsistent with the obliquity of impact, velocity, target, and bullet composition given how the magic bullet behaved, being a bullet from the same gun and same position.

The third bullet hits at the same or very similar velocity to the magic bullet, at a very similar obliquity, but behaves as if it had been fired either at a much higher velocity or at a much higher obliquity. Despite the fact they're hitting at almost the same obliquity and almost the same velocity, the magic bullet stays virtually intact, the third bullet tears apart so completely it's difficult to tell whether or not they actually found its remnants in the limousine. Kennedy's skull had a large number of bullet fragments inside it; one of the medical examiners described a small cloud of almost metallic dust within the wound. That is not consistent with a bullet impacting at low obliquity or medium speed, but it is consistent with an impact at obliquity of 60 degrees or so.

Given Oswald could not have delivered a shot which could impact at 60 degrees oblique (30 degrees is as high as the estimate can ever get), it means one or more of the following things: a different bullet, a different rifle, or a different shooting position.


Here's an excerpt from Mark Zepezauer's book "CIA's greatest hits":-

If the CIA had nothing to do with the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, they certainly have a peculiar way of showing it, since they've undermined every investigation into JFK's murder. This is hardly surprising, given the disproportionate number of CIA connections to the case. Take the accused "lone nut," Lee Harvey Oswald. As a Marine, he was stationed at Atsugi Air Base in Japan, one of the largest CIA stations in the world and home of the ultra-secret U-2 spy plane.

Before his transparently phony "defection" to the USSB in 1959, Oswald studied Russian in the military. In Moscow, he renounced his citizenship to a CIA officer at the US Embassy, promising to tell the Russians all he knew about the U-2. When he "changed his mind" two years later, the State Department cheerfully returned his passport and loaned him the money for his trip home. Oswald was met in New York by a member of a CIA front group that was full of Nazis. He then moved to Dallas, where he was "befriended" by Count George de Morhenschildt, who admitted shortly before his death that he'd been assigned by the CIA to debrief Oswald on his Russian sojourn. When Oswald moved to New Orleans in the summer of 1963, he became involved, wittingly or unwittingly, with three far-right agents of the CIA who were conspiring to assassinate JFK, ostensibly for his "betrayal" at the Bay of Pigs (see Hit #8)— Guy Banister, with whom Oswald worked while continuing to pose as a Marxist; Clay Shaw, who would later be acquitted of involvement in the JFK assassination at a trial where the prosecution tried but failed to obtain proof of his CIA status; and David Ferrie, whose Civil Air Patrol unit Oswald had joined when he was 15. Back in Dallas that fall, Oswald was seen in the company of one "Maurice Bishop," later identified as David Atlee Phillips, who was part of a group of CIA officers that despised JFK. It included the fanatical William Harvey (who had strong links to the Mafia—he hired Johnny Rosselli to have Castro killed) and future Watergate burglar Howard Hunt, who would later lose a libel suit against a newspaper that said he was involved in the JFK assassination. There are several possible motives for CIA involvement in the assassination: JFK's perceived "softness" on communism, the fact that he'd fired CIA Director Allen Dulles and Deputy Director Charles Cabell (brother of the mayor of Dallas), and a statement he made shortly after the Bay of Pigs, in which he promised to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds."

interesting piece.

Atlanta Man

Gold Member
RIslander said:
Anyone have the TLDR?
Where it stands as of 10/27/2017 12:37 am
JFK files live updates:

Oswald's killer was already on FBI's surveillance radar: Jack Rubenstein, also known as Jack Ruby, killed Oswald. But he was on the FBI's radar as early as August 6, 1962, more than a year prior. The first time a surveillance that either monitored, overheard, or made a mention of Rubenstein was August 6, 1962. The FBI decided to review any records related to that surveillance.

FBI memo discusses Oswald prior to JFK assassination: A document originating with the New Orleans office of the FBI appears to discuss Lee Harvey Oswald before he killed President Kennedy. The document, marked "10/25/63," indicates that an FBI agent or agent was keeping up "with Cuban sources" for information relating to the Pro-Castro "Fair Play for Cuba Committee," which Oswald was a member of.

The document says that the committee appears to have gone dormant since Oswald left the area, and that the "Dallas Division for information" is searching for Oswald. It says that if Oswald has relocated to Dallas "he may inaugurate an FPCC branch in that area."

Oswald assassinated President Kennedy in Dallas on November 22nd, 1963.

The FBI warned of a death threat to Oswald: A report directed by then-FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover said the FBI received a call at its Dallas office threatening Oswald's life the night before he was shot and killed by Jack Ruby.

"There is nothing further on the Oswald case except that he is dead," says the Nov. 24, 1963 document originally marked "secret." "Last night, we received a call in our Dallas office from a man ... in a calm voice and saying he was a member of a committee organized to kill Oswald."

"We at once notified the chief of police and he assured us Oswald would be given sufficient protection. This morning we called the chief of police again warning of the possibility of some effort against Oswald and he again assured us adequate protection would be given. However, this was not done."

The document also mentions Hoover's suspicions that Ruby was an "underworld" figure "with the reputation of being a homosexual."

Reactions of Soviet leaders: A 1966 FBI document discusses how the Soviet Union reacted with "great shock" to President Kennedy's assassination, and that "church bells were tolled" in his memory. Some within the ruling Communist Party believed that the assassination was in fact a "coup" initiated by the "ultraright." They were also worried that a rogue US general might use the lack of leadership to fire a nuclear weapon at the Soviet Union.

The memo, citing a source, goes on to state that Soviet officials denied any involvement with Lee Harvey Oswald, who had briefly defected to the Soviet Union years before: "They described him as a neurotic maniac who was disloyal to his own country and everything else."

The document goes on to cite a second source who said the assassination shocked Soviet diplomats who would preferred having Kennedy at the head of the US government, in part because they knew little about Lyndon Johnson.

The KGB's chief officer in New York City, Boris Ivanov, described Kennedy's death as a "problem" for his agency. Ivanov also told his agents that he believed that a conspiracy had been involved in Kennedy's assassination, and that the KGB should find out what really happened. He emphasized the need for the KGB "to determine precisely what kind of man the new president Lyndon Johnson would be."

The document further notes that a defector "whose bona fides have not been established" said that the KGB believed Oswald to be unstable, in part owing to a suicide attempt he undertook while in Soviet custody. This defector also said that Kennedy was held in "high esteem" by the Soviet government, and that KGB guards were posted outside the American embassy to prevent any "disrespect" from being shown.

1960 document discusses "sex parties": One new FBI document discusses a "high-priced Hollywood call girl" and friend of Los Angeles private detective Fred Otash, who had "convicted of horse race fixing." The woman in question contacted members of the FBI's Los Angeles field office to tell them that Otash had asked about her "participation in sex parties" that included then-Senator John Kennedy, his brother-in-law Peter Lawford, Frank Sinatra, and Sammy Davis Jr. She also told agents that she knew of no such sex parties.

Otash later implied to the FBI that "Confidential" magazine was "looking for dirt on Kennedy or Lawford" that it could use before the 1960 election.

Castro denies involvement in Kennedy assassination: One of the documents discusses a 1978 trip to Cuba by members of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, which was formed in 1976 to investigate the killings of President Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. On April 3rd, 1978, the document says that the members met with Cuban dictator Fidel Castro, "who assured the Committee that neither he nor his government had any involvement in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy."

Wikileaks announces $100,000 reward for withheld docs: WikiLeaks, which of course played a role in publishing leaked information about Democrats during the 2016 presidential election, announced in a tweet that it will give a $100,000 reward for the JFK documents the various intelligence agencies are withholding, "should they show violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error."
The CIA discusses Martin Luther King, Jr.: The Civil Rights icon is discussed in a report from 1967. The document cites a 1964 Washington Post story that stated King was planning to visit the Soviet Union, but was dissuaded from doing so by Rev. Ralph Abernathy.

The CIA discusses Bill Ayers: A 1969 document discusses William "Bill" Ayers, then a member of the Students for a Democratic Society and soon after a leader of the Weather Underground, a leftist terror group that carried out bombings across the United States. The document discusses a speech Ayers gave at American University in which he calls for a war against American "imperialism."

1975 "statement of facts" on foreign assassination plots: A document from 1975 lays out some of the CIA's efforts to assassinate foreign leaders, including Fidel Castro. The document discusses CIA contacts with the Mafia, including mob boss Sam Giancana, for the purposes of assassinating Castro.

According to the document, the CIA also discussed assassinating Congolese leader Patrice Lumumba and Indonesian President Sukarno.

1962 "minutes of special meeting" on anti-Castro efforts: One newly revealed document includes minutes from a 1962 meeting in which Kennedy administration officials, including Attorney General Robert Kennedy and National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy, discuss sabotage efforts against the Cuban government.

The document indicates that the CIA explored "the possibility of producing crop failures by the introduction of biological agents which would appear to be of natural origin" as part of that effort.

"It was suggested that the matter of attacking and harassing of Soviet personnel within Cuba should be considered," the document also states.

Documents released: Thursday night's batch of some 2,800 files has been released on the National Archives' website.
CIA releases statement: In a statement Thursday evening, the CIA said it "welcomed" Mr. Trump's directive to "conduct further review of the documents."
"Every single one of the approximately 18,000 remaining CIA records in the collection will ultimately be released, with no document withheld in full," the CIA statement added. "While some of these 18,000 records currently contain targeted redactions, the information redacted represents less than one percent of the total CIA information in the collection."

Trump releases statement: President Trump said Thursday evening that the public "deserves" to know as much as possible about the assassination, "executive departments and agencies (agencies) have proposed to me that certain information should continue to be redacted because of national security, law enforcement, and foreign affairs concerns. I have no choice --today -- but to accept those redactions rather than allow potentially irreversible harm to our Nation's security."

"To further address these concerns, I am also ordering agencies to re-review each and every one of those redactions over the next 180 days," the statement adds.

Some JFK records to be released Thursday night: President Trump has ordered 2,800 records related to the assassination of former President John F. Kennedy to be released Thursday night, although any redacted records will not be released at this time, senior administration officials told reporters.
Government agencies seek to block release: There has been late lobbying by various agencies of the U.S. government asking President Trump to hold off on releasing some of the John F. Kennedy assassination documents, and the White House was reportedly receptive to some of those requests, CBS News Andres Triay reports.


Gold Member
Also released: an anonymous call was made in Cambridge, England (from Cambridge, England, so it wasn't Oswald) to a reporter on the Cambridge Evening News, telling that reporter to call the US embassy for 'some big news'.

It was 25 minutes prior to JFK's assassination.

The memo goes on to say that similarly coincidental calls had been made over the previous year, many of which related to the 'Dr Ward' case. Given it was 1963 and the call was in England, the Dr. Ward they are likely referring to was Stephen Ward, i.e. the guy at the centre of the Profumo affair, i.e.e. the liaison between John Profumo and Christine Keeler which brought down the UK government since Keeler was also banging a Soviet spy at the time and Profumo was the UK Secretary for War.

brick tamland

There is no reason for further withholding information or for redactions. Trump's justification based on "national security, law enforcement, and foreign affairs concerns" is bullshit. In the past 54 years when have the USA's national security, law enforcement, and foreign affairs been even slightly jeopardized due to JFK's killing? It was a domestic conspiracy. Bullshit from Trump. It's 2017. The USA is in a steady decline as a world power.
Sure some of the plotters are still alive, for example George H W Bush, but the number is dwindling every year. Besides no one ever has, or ever will spend a day in prison for the killing. Was the current release worth a multi decade delay? What's really being shielded here? It boils down to what researchers discovered years ago - in November 1963 the CIA's capacity to, and experience in, plotting and carrying out murders of foreign heads of state (and the cover-up thereof) was simply focused inwards and targeted the POTUS. The blueprint was already in existence, but this time the target was on US soil.


Gold Member
A lot of the released material alludes to a 2nd shooter, Oswald being a govt agent, and a coup by LBJ

The 2800+ files which were released have been poured over extensively, revealing evidence of a second shooter, a massive CIA infiltration of the MSM, a tipoff phone call received 25 minutes before the assassination, and Soviet intelligence indicating the assassination was a coup involving LBJ among other things.

Two shooters, one escaped:

J. Edgar Hoover's comments suggest Oswald wasn't a shooter:
The evening of the assassination, J. Edgar Hoover told Lyndon Johnson’s aide, Walter Jenkins, “The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katsenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin.”

Soviet belief in a well orchestrated coup:
“According to our source, officials of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union believed there was some well-organized conspiracy on the part of the “ultraright” in the United States to effect a “coup.” They seemed convinced that the assassination was not the deed of one man, but that it arose out of a carefully planned campaign in which several people played a part.”

The KGB allegedly had evidence LBJ was behind the coup:
According to a CIA source, “it was indicated that “now” the KGB was in possession of data purporting to indicate President Johnson was responsible for the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy. Jack Ruby claimed it was LBJ as well:

A UK Journalist was tipped off 25 minutes before the assassination
A memo written to the director of the FBI from the deputy director of the CIA notes that a UK journalist employed by Cambridge News received an anonymous phone call 25 minutes before the JFK assassination telling him to call the US Embassy for “some big news.”

The CIA infiltrated the media and religious institutions
In a February, 1976 note, the CIA’s Office of the Director issued a memo which states “Genuine concern has recently been expressed about CIA relations with newsmen and churchmen.” As a result, the agency instituted a new policy not to enter into paid arrangements with these institutions.

Lee Harvey Oswald – agent of the U.S. government?

Oswald & Ruby knew each other, and had met on a trip to Cuba weeks prior to the assassination.
The Sun reports that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby met each other on a trip to Cuba “to cut sugar cane” weeks before the assassination.

They were part of a group of 30 or 40 “hippie looking” people who were on their way to Cuba to cut sugar cane, airport manager George Faraldo told investigators.

This bombshell will shed new light on the truth behind JFK’s assassination and whether Oswald was to blame for the former president’s murder.

Ruby, whose real name is Jacob Rubenstein, shot dead Oswald, 24, two days after the presidential assassination in November 1963.

But just weeks before, Oswald and nightclub owner Ruby were apparently both part of a large group of “mostly young” people heading to Cuba.

Mr Faraldo told the FBI that Ruby and Oswald were dressed casually in a sport shirts and trousers.

The airport manager added that Ruby “spent most of the time not mingling with the group but standing against the doorway that led from the waiting area to the rear plane boarding area.”

At one point he saw Oswald approach Ruby and ask: “Have you heard anything from the Big Bird yet?” (presumably LBJ?)


Gold Member
Actually that was the wrong link in my last post, more info here
Seems like it's being painted as a right wing coup against the liberal JFK, perhaps one of the most efficient ops ever if so

Over 40 journalists ‘who doubled as undercover agents’ worked for the CIA
"We then discussed the matter somewhat at more length and I gave ball park figures of various categories of journalists with whom we had contact. I said that the total free lance stringers with whom we had varying degrees of association was in the area of 40."


Jewish involvement?
The secret service interviewed hundreds of people deemed “threats to President Kennedy’s safety” from March – December, 1963. One of the interviewees was an anti-Castro Cuban national named Homer S. Echevarria, who – the day before the assassination – “allegedly approached informant to provide machine guns for Cuban rev.,” (revolution) and allegedly told the informant “We now have plenty of money — our new backers are Jews — as soon as ‘we’ or (they) take care of Kennedy…” The Secret Service note states Echevarria “expressed favorable attitude toward LBJ.”

(((Jacob Rubenstein)))?


Gold Member
DamienCasanova said:
Soviet belief in a well orchestrated coup:
“According to our source, officials of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union believed there was some well-organized conspiracy on the part of the “ultraright” in the United States to effect a “coup.” They seemed convinced that the assassination was not the deed of one man, but that it arose out of a carefully planned campaign in which several people played a part.”

The KGB allegedly had evidence LBJ was behind the coup:
According to a CIA source, “it was indicated that “now” the KGB was in possession of data purporting to indicate President Johnson was responsible for the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy. Jack Ruby claimed it was LBJ as well:

It's almost absurd to contemplate, but you wonder whether the next line of inquiry in the JFK assassination is to go and ask Putin whether he'd be kind enough to look into their files and see whether there's any corroboration of these assertions. As said, absurd to think you might actually get more solid evidence out of foreign intelligence than America's own institutions, but there it is.

After all, this is just the CIA sources saying what they thought the Russians believed. If the Russians had some sources on the inside America's institutions that suggested a coup was on its way, that perversely might provide more proof of a conspiracy than all the FOIA tomfoolery that's been going on for seventy years or so.

It does seem, though, that the Russians had nothing to do with JFK: they liked the guy, the CIA's sources were saying they were in a state of profound shock when Kennedy was assassinated, church bells tolling for him, the works. And bear in mind this is their reaction to a guy who had humiliated them in the Cuban Missile Crisis a year or two earlier.


Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
^ The Soviet archives were opened to the public after the collapse of the USSR. They could have restricted info about JFK, but I don't see why considering some of the other stuff that's in there.