The John F. Kennedy (JFK) assassination thread - 22 November 1963

Mercenary

Hummingbird
The presidential limo had 2 spots on the back (1 on each side) with footrests for agents to stand and handle bars to hold onto. When Kennedy arrived in Dallas these agents were there on each side but were told to "stand down". The vice president and (all other cars in the motorcade with VIPs) continued to have agents standing around on the sides of them throughout the parade, but the presidential limo had none.

This video shows the presidential limo shortly after arrival and agents being told to stop guarding it.

 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
Apparently on the day of the assassination various TV media outlets talked about a 7.65 Mauser rifle being found and Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Roger Craig also claims to have seen it with his own eyes.

Here is video showing that:

 

brick tamland

Kingfisher
^ this.
I repeat that the evidence of revision documentary is highly recommended. Craig appears there. He stuck to his story unwaveringly until his untimely death, unlike so many, including the doctors at parkland, who in later years bowed to the pressure. Craig was likely murdered as he'd witnessed too much. He even survived a prior attempt on his life, but sadly his enemies prevailed.
 

Papaya

Peacock
Gold Member
brick tamland said:
^ this.
I repeat that the evidence of revision documentary is highly recommended. Craig appears there. He stuck to his story unwaveringly until his untimely death, unlike so many, including the doctors at parkland, who in later years bowed to the pressure. Craig was likely murdered as he'd witnessed too much. He even survived a prior attempt on his life, but sadly his enemies prevailed.

I find his story very believable and his demise seemingly suspicious. What I dont get is why go to the trouble of killing him? He'd already told his story, sveral
 
Gambler said:
I've read 6 pages of this thread and I still don't understand WHY exactly was Kennedy killed? What was his worst offense as president?

I can think of three off the top of my head....

Ending the CIA

There goes the surveillance state and the ability to blackmail good men to do bad things with information

Ending the Federal Reserve

There goes debt control of the government, politicians and public. Also there goes our endless well of money to buy up and monopolise all important global marketplaces. Also our ability to manipulate world events

LBJ would never get to be president


Kennedy was going to ditch him at the next election, potentially resulting in him getting prosecuted and sent down for multiple crimes

In short Kennedy declared war on the military industrial complex so they took him out and replaced him with a man who would do their bidding, a man who in my opinion had everything to gain. LBJ guilty as sin.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Steve McQueen said:
Gambler said:
I've read 6 pages of this thread and I still don't understand WHY exactly was Kennedy killed? What was his worst offense as president?

I can think of three off the top of my head....

Ending the CIA

There goes the surveillance state and the ability to blackmail good men to do bad things with information

Ending the Federal Reserve

There goes debt control of the government, politicians and public. Also there goes our endless well of money to buy up and monopolise all important global marketplaces. Also our ability to manipulate world events

LBJ would never get to be president


Kennedy was going to ditch him at the next election, potentially resulting in him getting prosecuted and sent down for multiple crimes

In short Kennedy declared war on the military industrial complex so they took him out and replaced him with a man who would do their bidding, a man who in my opinion had everything to gain. LBJ guilty as sin.

Other "red lines" he crossed:

-reigning in Israel and its lobbies:
JFK ordered Israel to drop its nuclear program, and wanted to restrict its congressional access to US policy.

-detente with the Soviets, scaling back the Vietnam buildup, reigning in the military-industrial complex. JFK stared down the Soviets in Cuba showing his mettle, then wisely made overtures to Khrushchev for a deescalation of the Cold War.

-going after the mob:
JFK's grandfather was part of the Irish mafia, the mob backed him thinking they would do business with him, but he was arguably the most ethical and patriotic modern American president, so he turned on them and with his brother Bobby had them on the ropes. He would have purged the mob in 8 years had they not stopped him.


Basically all these red lines are connected, it was a coalition of all these elements that plotted his assassination.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
Gambler said:
I've read 6 pages of this thread and I still don't understand WHY exactly was Kennedy killed? What was his worst offense as president?

That's the big question.
One day, we may find out WHO exactly did the shooting and HOW they really shot him, and possibly WHO paid them as I'm sure there are still old videos and papers that will be found, that can unravel this.

But the WHY will probably aways remain a mystery as I'm pretty sure the exact motivations of the paymasters was never written down or documented anywhere.
 

brick tamland

Kingfisher
@Mercenary
The cover-up was quite comprehensive on different levels. Unless there still exists a suitably sizeable body of evidence that has not been altered or manufactured, and that is relevant, the public will be left to draw their own conclusions from the work of the many committed researchers who investigated over the years. However, note that many of them do not agree on some key points.

There are about 3600 documents that have NEVER been released to the pubic

Shortly after the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Chief Justice Earl Warren, who oversaw the first official inquiry, was asked by a reporter if the full record would be made public. “Yes, there will come a time,” the chairman of the Warren Commission responded. “But it might not be in your lifetime.” It will soon be in ours — that is, unless the CIA, FBI or other agencies still holding on to thousands of secret documents from related probes convince the next occupant of the White House otherwise. A special team of seven archivists and technicians with top-secret security clearances has been set up at the National Archives and Records Administration to process all or portions of 40,000 documents that constitute the final collection of known federal records that might shed light on the events surrounding JFK’s murder, POLITICO has learned — files that, according to law, must be made public by October 2017.

^ http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/why-last-of-jfk-files-could-embarrass-cia-118233

Long article but worth a read.

It will be interesting to see what actually transpires in October 2017. Pres. Trump will be in the spotlight. If he's not swayed by the dirty agencies, I'll really be impressed.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
As I mentioned in my first post when starting this thread, there are many more movies of the assassination than just the Zapruder film.
ALL of them, without exception have parts missing in crucial moments of the shooting.
And of course the whole film made by the babushka is also missing.
I am sure that the full versions of these films all exist somewhere.

How do I know they were not destroyed ?

Because men love symbolic trophies of their conquests....whether it be of a male adversary they killed or a woman they managed to seduce and fuck.
The dudes who carried out the assassination all kept those trophies for sure.
One day, all the full unedited films will emerge.
 

brick tamland

Kingfisher
So there's a little-known chapter in this whole matter. I doubt many would have heard about this.

The man at the centre of it all is Billie Sol Estes. His entry into this entire quagmire began relatively innocuously, as it involved the death of a man more than two decades prior.

In 1961, Henry Marshall was found shot to death on his remote Texas farm. He had been shot five times with a .22 caliber rifle and, since the rifle was lying beside his body, the coroner had no problem coming up with the probable scenario: Suicide

By the time Marshall died, Estes was a very wealthy man, however he had been involved in some dishonest business practices, which eventually led to his conviction.

Henry Marshall, in reviewing the cotton allotment irregularities connected with Billy Sol Estes, evidently uncovered a warm path that led to Vice President Johnson, but also to his own untimely death. Billie Sol went to trial and then prison, never once breathing the name of Lyndon Johnson - until his release in 1984. A Texas Ranger, Clint Peoples, had befriended Estes and convinced him that he should come clean with the whole truth. True to his word, Estes agreed to appear before a Robertson County grand jury and clear the record concerning the cotton allotments, the death of Henry Marshall and the involvement of LBJ and others. He recounted the whole ugly picture - from the millions he had funnelled into Johnson's secret slush fund, to the illegal cotton allotment scheme, to the murder of Henry Marshall. Estes testified that Lyndon Johnson, Cliff Carter, Malcolm Wallace and himself met several times to discuss the issue of the "loose cannon" - Henry Marshall. Marshall had refused a LBJ-arranged promotion to Washington headquarters, and it was feared that he was about to talk. Johnson, according to Estes finally said, "Get rid of him," and Malcolm "Mac" Wallace was given the assignment. According to testimony, Wallace followed Marshall to a remote area of his farm and beat him nearly unconscious. Then while trying to asphyxiate him with exhaust from Marshall's pickup truck, Wallace thought he heard someone approaching the scene, and hastily grabbed a rifle which customarily rested in the window rack of the truck. Quickly pumping five shots into Marshall's body, Wallace fled the scene. Suicide. That 1984 grand jury testimony accomplished only one official action. Marshall's death certificate was finally changed to read: "Cause of death - murder by gunshot." All of the guilty participants were dead - Johnson, Carter and Wallace. The only one left was Estes, and the U. S. Justice Department, getting wind of the Robertson grand jury testimony, wanted to talk to him. A letter was sent to Estes, requesting a meeting with him to discuss the provocative charges he had made. Estes enlisted the legal services of Douglas Caddy to represent him in the matter. Caddy then wrote a letter to the Justice Department asking for the protection of immunity, among other things for his client. In his letter, Caddy outlined far more than the Justice Dept. had bargained for. In addition to the crimes Estes had testified to for the Robertson County grand jury, Estes listed seven more murders directly linked to Lyndon Johnson, one of them being that of President John F. Kennedy; and all of them at the hand of Malcolm Wallace. After many months of negotiating at the highest levels of the Justice Department, Estes refused to testify to federal officials regarding the details of these crimes of the 1960's.

Here's where it really gets interesting


A few months after the November, 1995 release of our book: "THE MEN ON THE SIXTH FLOOR," I received two of these letters of negotiation, from two different sources. The content of these letters was startling. These letters have never been released to the public and since they are private negotiations between the Justice Department and a citizen, it is doubtful that they ever would have been released, even to the Assassination Records Revue Board, whose federally mandated job it is to examine and oversee the release of documents pertaining to the assassination of President Kennedy.

(letter number 1 from the Justice Dept. is pretty bland. The full text is in the link at the bottom).

LETTER #2 - FROM DOUGLAS CADDY:
August 9, 1984
Mr. Stephen S. Trott
Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division
U.S. Department of Justice
Washington, D. C. 20530

RE: Mr. Billie Sol Estes

Dear Mr. Trott:

My client, Mr. Estes, has authorized me to make this reply to your letter of May 29, 1984. Mr. Estes was a member of a four-member group, headed by Lyndon Johnson, which committed criminal acts in Texas in the 1960's. The other two, besides Mr. Estes and LBJ, were Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace. Mr. Estes is willing to disclose his knowledge concerning the following criminal offenses:

I. Murders

1. The killing of Henry Marshall
2. The killing of George Krutilek
3. The killing of Ike Rogers and his secretary
4. The killing of Harold Orr
5. The killing of Coleman Wade
6. The killing of Josefa Johnson (Lyndon Johnson's sister)
7. The killing of John Kinser
8. The killing of President J. F. Kennedy.

Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders. In the cases of murders nos. 1-7, Mr. Estes' knowledge of the precise details concerning the way the murders were executed stems from conversations he had shortly after each event with Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace. In addition, a short time after Mr. Estes was released from prison in 1971, he met with Cliff Carter and they reminisced about what had occurred in the past, including the murders. During their conversation, Carter orally compiled a list of 17 murders which had been committed, some of which Mr. Estes was unfamiliar. A living witness was present at that meeting and should be willing to testify about it. He is Kyle Brown, recently of Houston and now living in Brady, Texas. Mr. Estes, states that Mac Wallace, whom he describes as a "stone killer" with a communist background, recruited Jack Ruby, who in turn recruited Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. Estes says that Cliff Carter told him that Mac Wallace fired a shot from the grassy knoll in Dallas, which hit JFK from the front during the assassination. Mr. Estes declares that Cliff Carter told him the day Kennedy was killed, Fidel Castro also was supposed to be assassinated and that Robert Kennedy, awaiting word of Castro's death, instead received news of his brother's killing. Mr. Estes says that the Mafia did not participate in the Kennedy assassination but that itparticipation was discussed prior to the event, but rejected by LBJ, who believed if the Mafia were involved, he would never be out from under its blackmail. Mr. Estes asserts that Mr. Ronnie Clark, of Wichita, Kansas, has attempted on several occasions to engage him in conversation. Mr. Clark, who is a frequent visitor to Las Vegas, has indicated in these conversations a detailed knowledge corresponding to Mr. Estes' knowledge of the JFK assassination. Mr. Clark claims to have met with Mr. Jack Ruby a few days prior to the assassination, at which time Kennedy's planned murder was discussed. Mr. Estes declares that discussions were had with Jimmy Hoffa concerning having his aide, Larry Cabell, kill Robert Kennedy while the latter drove around in his convertible. Mr. Estes has records of his phone calls during the relevant years to key persons mentioned in the foregoing account.

Excerpts from the rest of the letter:

II. The Illegal Cotton Allotments

Mr. Estes desires to discuss the infamous illegal cotton allotment schemes in great detail. He has recordings made at the time of LBJ, Cliff Carter and himself discussing the scheme. These recordings were made with Cliff Carter's knowledge as a means of Carter and Estes protecting them selves should LBJ order their deaths. Mr. Estes believes these tape recordings and the rumors of other recordings allegedly in his possession are the reason he has not been murdered.

In connection with your Item #3, Mr. Estes states that he never participated in any of the murders. It may be alleged that he participated in subsequent cover-ups. His response to this is that had he conducted himself any differently, he, too, would have been a murder victim. Mr. Estes wishes to confirm that he will abide by the conditions set forth in your letter and that he plans to act with total honesty and candor in any dealings with the Department of Justice or any federal investigative agency. In return for his cooperation, Mr. Estes wishes in exchange his being given immunity, his parole restrictions being lifted and favorable consideration being given to recommending his long-standing tax leins being removed and his obtaining a pardon.

Sincerely yours,

Douglas Caddy

http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/estes.htm

So apparently Fidel Castro was supposed to have been assassinated on 23 November 1963? And the Mafia wanted to assassinate Robert Kennedy, years before he actually died in 1968. And Lee Harvey Oswald was a co-conspirator who was recruited by none other than Jack Ruby, his eventual killer.
Despite all the information that Estes could have provided about the above claims, and even more, his request for immunity and other indulgences were apparently refused, for reasons I haven't looked into yet. It is quite damning that the Justice Dept. did not see it fit to have the man fully disclose all he knew about parts of the plot to kill JFK. From the little I have seen, he wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

Anyway, unlike so many who knew too much, Estes passed away at the age of 88 years.
 

Uhondo

Sparrow
I've read 6 pages of this thread and I still don't understand WHY exactly was Kennedy killed? What was his worst offense as president?

-How about clandestinely supporting and orchestrating the overthrow and eventual murder of foreign leaders such as the then president of South Vietnam, Ngo Dinh Diem?
-How about multiple failed attempts at knocking off Castro?
-How about bringing the world to the precipice of another world war?

While not an exact answer to your question, its not hard to see how some of the CIAs actions, supported by him, contributed to making him a marked man.

Its worth noting that one of the reasons the U.S. gov't had to sanitize the Warren commission report was because there was a realization that if some of the actions of the CIA came to light, it would lead to a much broader, deeper and damaging inquiry into the covert operations that were being carried out by the CIA, and that would have had far reaching ramifications.

Recently released documents detail the very likely possibility that the man contracted by the CIA to take out Castro was a double agent and possibly leaked the details of the plot to the Soviets/Cubans.

LBJ said of of the Kennedy assassination "He tried to get Castro but Castro got to him first."
 
Have any of the JFK buffs in here read James Ellroy's "American Tabloid" and "The Cold Six Thousand"?

If so, what do you think of his rendition of these conspiracies?
 

Tokyo Joe

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Digital enhancement of several photographs of the Grassy Knoll, taken shortly after noon on 22 November 1963, provide some hints to the identity of JFK's true assassin.

putin-gun.jpg
 
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