The John F. Kennedy (JFK) assassination thread - 22 November 1963

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
Bringing this thread back from the dead to post a reminder that a fairly significant date is now impending in the release of JFK documents:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...e-3000-never-seen-documents-jfk-assassination

More than 3,000 never-before-seen documents from the FBI, CIA, and Justice Department on the assassination of John F. Kennedy are scheduled be released, with many experts fearing that such a large release of secret JFK assassination documents will spur “a new generation of conspiracy theories.”

ccording to Roger Stone, the CIA is urging President Donald Trump to delay disclosing some of the files for another 25 years.

Roger Stone said in a post on his website…

“They must reflect badly on the CIA even though virtually everyone involved is long dead.”
Newsmax reports:

More than 3,000 never-before-seen documents from the FBI, CIA, and Justice Department are set to be released, along with 30,000 that have only been partially released in the past. The document dump “will simply fuel a new generation of conspiracy theories,” write Philip Shenon and Larry J. Sabato.

Sabato is the director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics and author of “The Kennedy Half-Century” and Shenon is a former reporter for the New York Times and author of, “A Cruel and Shocking Act: The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination.”

The CIA is urging President Donald Trump to delay disclosing some of the files for another 25 years according to friend and political adviser Roger Stone but the National Archives would not say whether any agencies have appealed the release of the documents.

According to The Gateway Pundit Roger Stone and Gerald Posner, two New York Times bestselling authors who are polar opposites about who killed JFK, have joined together to urge Donald Trump to release all the remaining classified files on Kennedy’s assassination.

About 3,100 files are still sealed in the National Archives. Under the 1992 JFK Records Act, the Archives have until October 26 to decide which of those files to publicly disclose.

Some of the classified documents include a CIA personality study of Oswald, top-secret testimony of former CIA officers to congressional committees, transcripts of interrogations with Soviet defector and Oswald handler Yuri Nosenko, letters about the case from J. Edgar Hoover and Jackie Kennedy, the CIA file on Jack Wasserman, the attorney for New Orleans mob boss Carlos Marcello, and the operational file of E. Howard Hunt, career spy and Watergate burglar.

Roger Stone, in his bestselling 2013 The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ, set forth the case that LBJ was the mastermind of plot that included the CIA, the Mob and Big Texas Oil to kill Kennedy.

Gerald Posner, in his 1993 bestselling finalist for the Pulitzer for History, Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK, concluded that the Warren Commission conclusions are correct and Oswald acting alone had killed Kennedy.

While they might not agree on who killed Kennedy, Stone and Posner are longstanding advocates for the release of all the government files on the assassination.

“These files should have been released long ago,” says Posner. “The government does this all the time, over classified documents and then holds on to them for decades under the guise of ‘national security.’ All the secrecy just feeds people’s suspicions that the government has something to hide and adds fuel to conspiracy theories.” Posner is convinced the case will still be closed when the last document is made public.

”I know CIA Director Pompeo is urging the President to delay release of these records for another 25 years,” said Stone. “They must reflect badly on the CIA even though virtually everyone involved is long dead.” Stone believes the evidence supporting the case in his book is still hidden somewhere in government files.

Both authors called on President Trump – who is empowered to make the final decision should the National Archives or CIA balk on releasing all the files – to opt for transparency.

October 26 is now 8 days away. This needs a quick boost via /pol or some of the other services. Trump is about our best hope for the disclosure of these materials. There is no reason at all now for them not to be turned over to the people.
 

DarkTriad

Ostrich
Gold Member
Paracelsus said:
^^^^

Next up: big false flag operation on 25 October, and at 11:30 pm they grab Trump in the Lincoln bedroom and tell him not to release the documents.

Even better actually - He's spending Oct. 25th in Dallas. If they're going to go after him on release day, he's going to make it look a ugly as possibly.
 

rpg

Ostrich
I've looked into this for years and have come to the conclusion Oswald did it himself after seeing the parade route in the paper. It was the opportunity of a lifetime. He could have stood on the sidewalk and shot the president even easier than he did from the textbook depository. CIA fucked up, FBI fucked up. Secret Service fucked up. They should have been on this guy since his coming back from Russia and they let him slip through. He was so crazy nobody took him seriously. Big mistake.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
rpg said:
I've looked into this for years and have come to the conclusion Oswald did it himself after seeing the parade route in the paper. It was the opportunity of a lifetime. He could have stood on the sidewalk and shot the president even easier than he did from the textbook depository. CIA fucked up, FBI fucked up. Secret Service fucked up. They should have been on this guy since his coming back from Russia and they let him slip through. He was so crazy nobody took him seriously. Big mistake.

Oswald came back from Russia on a US military jet plane.

Corbett's 4min capsule on the JFK conspiracy:

Longer doc focusing on LH Oswald:
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
rpg said:
I've looked into this for years and have come to the conclusion Oswald did it himself after seeing the parade route in the paper. It was the opportunity of a lifetime. He could have stood on the sidewalk and shot the president even easier than he did from the textbook depository. CIA fucked up, FBI fucked up. Secret Service fucked up. They should have been on this guy since his coming back from Russia and they let him slip through. He was so crazy nobody took him seriously. Big mistake.

As I posted long ago, this is clear.

The saying is clear and truer than ever when talking about the gov't:

"Never consign to crazy theories or malice what can easily be explained by incompetence"

He did it, Nova proved it all scientifically, and it makes the most sense.

As I also said, who put Oswald up to it, who else was involved, etc. we'll probably never know. Unless these documents clearly show the trail, which I doubt.
 

MOVSM

Pelican
Gold Member
Chris Brown said:
What about the bullet that hit Jfk from the front? How did Oswald do tat from the repository?

That was Oswald's bullet exiting. Exit wounds are always larger and ghastlier than entry wounds.

Penn and Teller on their Bullshit! show demonstrated that quite convincingly.
 

DarkTriad

Ostrich
Gold Member
rpg said:
I've looked into this for years and have come to the conclusion Oswald did it himself after seeing the parade route in the paper. It was the opportunity of a lifetime. He could have stood on the sidewalk and shot the president even easier than he did from the textbook depository. CIA fucked up, FBI fucked up. Secret Service fucked up. They should have been on this guy since his coming back from Russia and they let him slip through. He was so crazy nobody took him seriously. Big mistake.

Then why the need for Johnson to appoint one of Kennedy's blood enemies (former CIA director Alan Dulles) to chair the Warren Commission? With all the weird irregularities, the simplest solution to me is just another run of the mill coup. It's more believable to me than magical bullets defying the laws of physics and all the other nonsense, and it's a tale as old as time. LBJ desperately wanted to be President, he took the Vice Presidency as cold consolation after Kennedy kicked his ass. Eventually Kennedy pissed off enough people to give Johnson the perfect coalition to seize power. The CIA was probably the best organization in history for pulling off these kinds of coups, and just because their charter says not to do it in the US, they're certainly capable of it with the right backing and the right motivation. And Kennedy had just sacked their longtime leader and was threatening their whole organization after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
If Oswald was the sole assassin, there would have been no need for the government to classify countless files for 54 years, hide thousands of difference types of evidence, and kill off and silence numerous key witnesses.

Just as an example, on the day of the assassination, more than 15 different people took home movies on or near Dealey Plaza....yet to this day not a single one of these videos is uncut and unedited. They ALL have missing portions in the key moments of the shooting.

If the evidence proved Oswald did it alone, there would be no need to hide anything.
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
All these key witnesses died within just 3 years of the assassination:


JFK-Ass-deaths-list-01-e1385150991156-1024x716.jpg




More deaths of key witnesses from 1967 to 1973

JFK-Ass-deaths-list-02-e1385151419422-1024x716.jpg
 

Mercenary

Hummingbird
The so called Babushka Lady is the only witness on Dealey plaza never to be identified. To this day, no one knows who she really was. All other witnesses were identified, but not her. Nor has her home video ever been published. She had the best, clearest and (above all) closest view of the headshot with the grassy knoll as background.

More interestingly...when the final shots rang out most people hit the ground to avoid being shot....yet this "old lady" just stood there motionless and kept filming JFK's brain being blown apart and splattered across the limo and all over the street like some fucking icy emotionless terminator.


sembol-fotograflar-ikon-fotograflar-sembol-fotograflar-1555367.jpg
 

sterling_archer

Hummingbird
Nah, be good boy and go to sleep. Nothing to see here...

But seriously, discussion about JFK is good red pilling thread for those who get into the whole "conspiracy stuff", even though we will get nothing in a few days.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
MOVSM said:
Chris Brown said:
What about the bullet that hit Jfk from the front? How did Oswald do tat from the repository?

That was Oswald's bullet exiting. Exit wounds are always larger and ghastlier than entry wounds.

Penn and Teller on their Bullshit! show demonstrated that quite convincingly.

Penn and Teller are professional liars, that's what they do for a living. The essence of magic is sleight of hand, and they are masters at it. They have an anti-family, ant-traditionalist liberal political agenda, and are very good at manipulating their public. Like the other popular debunkers, their main staple is mostly easy subjects like bigfoot, astrology or ESP scams. They draw you in with these in order to push a militant atheist agenda, pro-homosexual, pro-degeneracy


Atheism is not in and of itself a terrible thing, I've been one most of my life, but militant atheists like Penn often harbor a hidden, darker set of beliefs, I'm fairly sure he is a satanist, though like many influential satanists, he will not come out and reveal this.


Their case rests on the "jet effect", a phenomenon used to justify why Kennedy's head rocked from front to back despite his (allegedly) getting shot from the back. The sleight of hand here is they used a water balloon to demonstrate this "jet effect", when in fact the human skull is a hard, fairly thick object that wouldn't behave the same way at all.

Had they used say, a coconut instead of a melon, which is a lot more similar to a human skull (hard shell with a soft/liquid interior), they would have seen that the target would move in the direction of the shot, not opposite, as the hard outer shell/skull resists the bullet, which has to push through the hard shell in order to breaks through.

the shear strength of human bone is so
much greater than that of the melon rind,
the shear forces on the skull are much greater. The
shear force required for a 6.5 millimeter
projectile to penetrate and pass through a live hum
an skull (the average thickness of a human
skull is ¾ of a centimeter or about 0.300 of an inc
h), even using the lower parallel to the grain
bone shear strength, is about 1,700 pounds at both
entrance and exit, or 3,400 pounds total.
Since the same diameter projectile is used and the
same size temporary cavity should occur,
the jet effect will produce a similar amount of for
ce toward the shooter of 413 pounds. The net force
equation for shooting through a live human skull with a
jet effect occurring is then

-413 pounds + 3,400 pounds = + 2,987 pounds

showing the net force on the skull is resoundingly in the direction
of the projectile’s motion.

The trick with the use of the melon, to show the jet effect
could cause it to move towards the shooter, was that the
force required to shear through its skin was so low that it allowed
the jet effect generated force to dominate. This situation
is not true when a human skull is involved.

http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Jet_Effect_Rebuttal_II_(4-17-2012).pdf

They can get away with this because nearly all their audience has a very limited understanding of ballistics. The notion that someone who is shot in the head would move forwards towards the shot is ridiculous for those with extensive ballistics experience.

Penn and Teller are closet satanists, Penn is a shady character who lives in a dungeon-like house in the Vegas desert. He is reported to have one of the largest collection of macabre and satanic artifacts in America. They're in the business of shaping the public mindset. People like them are behind the recent rise in militant atheism, and the antagonism and disdain and negativeness that many young people have for anything traditional.
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
MOVSM said:
Chris Brown said:
What about the bullet that hit Jfk from the front? How did Oswald do tat from the repository?

That was Oswald's bullet exiting. Exit wounds are always larger and ghastlier than entry wounds.

Well, apart from the "magic bullet" -- CE399 -- which passes through two human bodies, those of JFK and Governor Connolly, without leaving larger, ghastlier exit wounds in either of them and without basically shattering into tiny pieces as it did. Indeed it was a canard of Lattimer's examination that Kennedy's throat wound -- the magic bullet's exit wound -- was smaller than what he said was the entry wound.

main-qimg-b7a395492a7e69bede6949c6693fbb5e-c


The same gun less than 8 seconds later then fired a bullet that blew the right side of JFK's head apart.

The reason this is not physically possible is because you have a disparity in the results despite the fact the bullets were hitting at pretty close to the same obliquity to the target surface.

I'm being generous here and assuming CE399, the magic bullet that hits Kennedy and passes into Connolly's wrist, was actually fired that day. That result is at least within the bounds of physical possibility because bullets hold together pretty well if they hit their targets at low obliquity, i.e. close to perpendicular. The easiest analogy for this is to consider a cliff diver plunging into the water off a high dive: they work on hitting the water at low obliquity, i.e. 90 degrees, i.e.e. perpendicular, because it maximises shear force from their fingers and allows a minimal splash when they hit. A bullet hitting does similar things on a perpendicular impact: if it hits perpendicular, shear force is maximised and you don't have to spend a lot of momentum penetrating the target. The converse applies if the cliff diver hits the water off-perpendicular, that is, at medium to high obliquity: there's a big splash, most of the momentum is spent across the full surface of the cliff diver hitting the water, and they don't penetrate into the depths anywhere as far.

Bullets are similarly affected when they hit a target even slightly side-on: the bullet starts to tumble easier and breaks up more completely, because the force of impact works on the bullet as well, consequent on Newton's Third Law. Significant damage is done to a bullet that hits at 25-40 degrees oblique to the target. In the case of bullets hitting at the 40 to 60 degree obliquity, the bullet is all but destroyed, shattered.

Simple Pythagorean calculations from the position of JFK's limo and the Texas Book Depository informs us that Oswald could not have fired a shot that possibly hit at 60 degree obliquity: especially with JFK crumpling over in his seat, about the maximum obliquity he could have hit at was around the 20 to 30 degree mark. That is, the sort of obliquity that promotes if not compels a straight-line penetration and smaller exit wound, as happened with the "magic bullet".

The HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1979) believed the bullet hit around the middle of the back of JFK's skull and went in a slightly downward direction. Even then they screwed it up: based on the HSCA's calculations, the shooter was floating in mid-air above the Texas Book Depository. The corrected calculations reckon the bullet to have hit at about 25 to 30 degrees oblique to the target. This is not compatible in physics with a blowout of the variety that happened to JFK's head. However, it is compatible with impact at 60 degrees oblique to the target ... and among the places from where you could achieve such obliquity is the grassy knoll.

I know people will say "But Edgewood Arsenal simulated the head explosion 10 times for the Warren Commission."

Let's leave aside all the physical differences between the simulation and real life (dried out skulls, no scalp, ballistic gel instead of brains, etc), the simple fact is that the Edgewood Arsenal simulations were invalid because they were working with a wrong presumption: they were simulating a bullet hit at the base of the skull rising slightly up to blow out above JFK's head. As the HSCA later established, the impact point was in reality good four inches higher, on a different bone of the skull entirely. The Warren Commission assumed JFK was bent over much further than he actually was.

This has very large implications for the test because it changes the obliquity at which the bullet hit, and therefore the results. Edgewood Arsenal's tests perfectly simulated a blowout every time because they were simulating a hit at high obliquity to the target, 60 degrees or so. Per the HSCA's own calculation (11 degrees, which was impossible, or up to 27 degrees on recalculation) this simply did not happen - if the bullet was coming from Oswald.
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
As I said (or as Miatella says): a strike at 60 degrees obliquity implies one shot from the grassy knoll - the final shot. This would be consistent with the Warren Commission's table-thumping that one bullet (CE399) passed through JFK and Connolly without a single striation on it from passing through seven layers of clothing. That, at least, is physically possible: the first hit was at roughly 11 degrees to the target, i.e. very low obliquity, hence why it passed through relatively undamaged.

It's why I say the magic bullet isn't actually CE399, it's the last, explosive headshot.

I might add one P.S.: if you have a bullet travelling at much higher velocity than was possible for Oswald's Carcano to fire at, that too might explain massive damage. Higher velocity means higher kinetic energy imparted to the target. More force acting on the bullet, more destruction on impact. This is the Stephen Hunter theory: a Carcano bullet put in a Winchester round and fired from a Winchester rifle, something Hunter has said to have done. A Winchester rifle fires at much greater velocity and with much higher accuracy than the Carcano, but this would still leave Carcano bullet residue behind. Either way it still proves the existence of a second shooter.
 

MOVSM

Pelican
Gold Member
Paracelsus said:
MOVSM said:
Chris Brown said:
What about the bullet that hit Jfk from the front? How did Oswald do tat from the repository?

That was Oswald's bullet exiting. Exit wounds are always larger and ghastlier than entry wounds.

Well, apart from the "magic bullet" -- CE399 -- which passes through two human bodies, those of JFK and Governor Connolly, without leaving larger, ghastlier exit wounds in either of them and without basically shattering into tiny pieces as it did. Indeed it was a canard of Lattimer's examination that Kennedy's throat wound -- the magic bullet's exit wound -- was smaller than what he said was the entry wound.

main-qimg-b7a395492a7e69bede6949c6693fbb5e-c


The same gun less than 8 seconds later then fired a bullet that blew the right side of JFK's head apart.

The reason this is not physically possible is because you have a disparity in the results despite the fact the bullets were hitting at pretty close to the same obliquity to the target surface.

I'm being generous here and assuming CE399, the magic bullet that hits Kennedy and passes into Connolly's wrist, was actually fired that day. That result is at least within the bounds of physical possibility because bullets hold together pretty well if they hit their targets at low obliquity, i.e. close to perpendicular. The easiest analogy for this is to consider a cliff diver plunging into the water off a high dive: they work on hitting the water at low obliquity, i.e. 90 degrees, i.e.e. perpendicular, because it maximises shear force from their fingers and allows a minimal splash when they hit. A bullet hitting does similar things on a perpendicular impact: if it hits perpendicular, shear force is maximised and you don't have to spend a lot of momentum penetrating the target. The converse applies if the cliff diver hits the water off-perpendicular, that is, at medium to high obliquity: there's a big splash, most of the momentum is spent across the full surface of the cliff diver hitting the water, and they don't penetrate into the depths anywhere as far.

Bullets are similarly affected when they hit a target even slightly side-on: the bullet starts to tumble easier and breaks up more completely, because the force of impact works on the bullet as well, consequent on Newton's Third Law. Significant damage is done to a bullet that hits at 25-40 degrees oblique to the target. In the case of bullets hitting at the 40 to 60 degree obliquity, the bullet is all but destroyed, shattered.

Simple Pythagorean calculations from the position of JFK's limo and the Texas Book Depository informs us that Oswald could not have fired a shot that possibly hit at 60 degree obliquity: especially with JFK crumpling over in his seat, about the maximum obliquity he could have hit at was around the 20 to 30 degree mark. That is, the sort of obliquity that promotes if not compels a straight-line penetration and smaller exit wound, as happened with the "magic bullet".

The HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1979) believed the bullet hit around the middle of the back of JFK's skull and went in a slightly downward direction. Even then they screwed it up: based on the HSCA's calculations, the shooter was floating in mid-air above the Texas Book Depository. The corrected calculations reckon the bullet to have hit at about 25 to 30 degrees oblique to the target. This is not compatible in physics with a blowout of the variety that happened to JFK's head. However, it is compatible with impact at 60 degrees oblique to the target ... and among the places from where you could achieve such obliquity is the grassy knoll.

I know people will say "But Edgewood Arsenal simulated the head explosion 10 times for the Warren Commission."

Let's leave aside all the physical differences between the simulation and real life (dried out skulls, no scalp, ballistic gel instead of brains, etc), the simple fact is that the Edgewood Arsenal simulations were invalid because they were working with a wrong presumption: they were simulating a bullet hit at the base of the skull rising slightly up to blow out above JFK's head. As the HSCA later established, the impact point was in reality good four inches higher, on a different bone of the skull entirely. The Warren Commission assumed JFK was bent over much further than he actually was.

This has very large implications for the test because it changes the obliquity at which the bullet hit, and therefore the results. Edgewood Arsenal's tests perfectly simulated a blowout every time because they were simulating a hit at high obliquity to the target, 60 degrees or so. Per the HSCA's own calculation (11 degrees, which was impossible, or up to 27 degrees on recalculation) this simply did not happen - if the bullet was coming from Oswald.


The bullet *was* deformed:

CE399+%282%29.jpg
Slide1_thumb.GIF
 
Top