The Jordan Peterson thread

Sooth

Pelican
Gold Member
I must admit when I first beard JP he had my ear.

Now this passage springs to mind, especially the fine sounding arguments.

Colossians 2:2-4:
2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.
 
He is a very complicated many with many issues, clearly. The fame just brought more light to all of it, and has been difficult for him to handle, and easy for others to see.
 

Blaster

Ostrich
Gold Member
Why do so many people waste such an immense amount of time and energy on ad hominem attacks on Peterson? I get bringing it up. It's news worth acknolwedging, it's worth learning from public failures. But all this gloating and mountains of text devoted to continued attacks and womanish gossip just reinforces the argument that you never understood his message in the first place or why it mattered.

Hypocrisy matters when the hypocrite benefits at the expense of the audience. Preaching austerity when you engage in gluttony enabled by the austerity you preach: that's hypocrisy. Diversity for thee, not for me. That is hypocrisy. Making mistakes is just being human. If you preach the virtues of BJJ for self-defense then get your ass kicked in a fight, that doesn't mean you were wrong it just means you are weak or even just unlucky.

Peterson presents formidable and well-reasoned arguments for his ideas and promotes questioning and criticism. It's a very bad sign if your counter-argument is dominated by attacks on petty personal shortcomings, with the occasional disingenuous attack on some failure to provide a simple enough answer to a question that maybe isn't as simple as you imagine it to be. It's a bad sign even if you're capable of generating an entire book's worth of personal criticism. It's still just personal criticism and what matters are the ideas.
 
Why do so many people waste such an immense amount of time and energy on mindlessly defending their guru Peterson? I get bringing it up. It's news worth acknowledging, it's worth learning from public failures like him. But all this gloating and mountains of text devoted to continued defensiveness and womanish apologism just reinforces the argument that you never understood his message in the first place or why it mattered (and to whom).
People were criticizing him long before his personal weakness became apparent, because he's peddling an ideology. The fact that professional leftist yappers attack him for being "right-wing" or that his books (that differ in no way from other "you have to work hard and smile more often" books on the market) supposedly helped people doesn't change anything. He's still an overblown con-man (and self-professed marxist) that hasn't discovered anything new or groundbreaking, just used his moment in the spotlight to milk the gullible.
To use your analogy, if a guy advertises game and is caught hiring escorts, that's just hypocrisy. But if the same guy publishes books, holds seminaries and touts himself "philosopher of game" making loads of bucks while being unable to find and hold a partner, that's something more.

 

Batman_

Woodpecker
911 said:
Jordan Peterson is a Slick, Promoted, Globalist Judas Goat

February 21, 2019
Thomas Müller

Over a year ago, we ran an article on Dr. Jordan Peterson’s method in obliterating Social Justice Warrior (SJW) mentality. At the time, we took fawning lessons from Peterson’s personal skills in debate and rhetoric. There is no question that he has charisma and manly swagger, duly noted. He’s highly intelligent and masterful at defeating the shallow and hypocritical rhetoric of SJWs. This was his appeal early on and gained him a large following. He sold boatloads of self-help books and made a lot of money for himself on the speaking tours. We also began to notice afterwards that the system was heavily promoting him.
Jordan Peterson in Little League dominating SJWs

Although we have no quarrel with “sage advice,” such as encouraging young men to clean up their rooms and assume responsibility, such tomes really shouldn’t propel Peterson to guru status. Nor should teeing off on SJW soft tosses, which is a common tactic and distraction of the Kosher Alt-Right (aka Alt-Lite) and MAGA movement.

We wish such a talented persona was on the side of right, but sadly he’s not. Since our article, we’ve discovered just how problematic he really is.

On a personal level, he pushes a false message of “radical individualism” (aka personal liberation) as an atomized strategy to keep white men and women from connecting or bonding well with their natural community. He also takes cheap shots at Europeans for attempting to resist the Kalergi Plan.

When given a major platform by the Lugenpresse, he used it right away as an opportunity to condemn the “It’s O.K. to be White” flyer as racist identity politics. This scam is known as “psycho-pathologizing.” And it’s just got worse.

Next up for Peterson during a busy 2018 was a trip to Slovenia to hang out with his cronies at the Trilateral Commission.

He constantly spouts globalist/anti-nationalist messages. In fact, he calls nationalism “reprehensible.” Mostly, he has played a role in moving the Overton Window in the wrong direction and shutting out voices defending ethnic or racial awareness or identity, calling them the code word “supremacists or tribal.” And at the same time, he takes aim at resurgent nationalist and pro-ethnic sentiment that has centuries of evolutionary, cultural and biological basis. He calls it “regressing.”

Yet, he gives a complete pass to the Judiacs — the No. 1 supremacist “chosen people” in the world, with real social, political and economic power. He even wrote a puff piece acknowledging Jewish power and influence but hypocritically attributes it solely to “superiority” and “how smart they are.”

Digging deeper, it appears Peterson also has ties to hardcore Zionist organizations. He was a keynote speaker with Kosher Alt-Right operative Ezra Levant at an event put on by “Canadians for Balfour 100,” during which he gave another fluff speech about how wonderful Jews are and how everyone is envious of Israel. This organization has direct ties to B’Nai Brith and a host of other Canadian and international Zionist organizations.

And what is this wall covering all about? Would any self-respecting person put that up? All of this strikes us as bad faith all the way around.
Lenin and Trotsky on stage.

While nationalism for Israel is great to Judas Goat Peterson as he rolls in the dough, he shows his hypocrisy by postulating that nationalism for western countries is about “superiority.” Wrong. For the folks at Winter Watch, nationalism is mostly about preservation, sovereignty, credible survival, defense and basic rights. We see the white race generally as under attack, and as being in increasingly bad shape. Therefore, we are not about running victory laps and doing high fives or calling ourselves “superior.” Hardly. It’s more about putting thumbs in the leaking dam and trying to get back onto a positive trajectory, a grave and serious threat.

Peterson is not part of the solution. He’s anything but. Furthermore, we believe whites — especially in the U.S. — should form alliances with blacks around key issues, like neocon Zionist warmongering. Data and polls show blacks as the most anti-war group in the country. Has Peterson said one word about warmongering and weaponized migration from war-torn regions? To use one of Peterson’s favorite exclamations,- “No”!

When things get really tough and the Crime Syndicate predators are on the loose, ethnicity gives a people a fallback bastion and support system. It’s the main reason the Scots fared better than the Irish in the 1845-1849 famine. The Scots had a blood-and-soil (and TRUST) based clan hierarchy. Chiefs would (and did) go bankrupt before letting their third, fourth and fifth cousins die of starvation. Conversely, the Irish were preyed upon and their food looted and shipped out by the internationalists and absentee bankster-backed land owners.

The same thing happened to the Chinese in the 19th century as a weakened national position opened them up to the opium Crime Syndicate. Without protective nationalism, any people might as well just bend over and spread ’em for the plutocrats- literally.
Read “Britain’s Genocidal Starvation of the Irish — or So-Called ‘Potato Famine’ — and Brave Resistance of Nationalist John Mitchel”

More Ties to the Usual Suspects

In the following clip, the end game of Peterson and his friends is laid bare. At minute 00:29:32, he talks about how rich he has become running his shtick. This video (“Jordan Peterson Dismantled”) in it entirety, by the excellent new site Resurrection Europa, is a litany about what this decidedly nasty player is really all about.

If you go a little deeper into Peterson’s background, you’ll see his association with Jim Balsillie, former CEO of Blackberry’s Research in Motion. They worked on something called Resilient People, Resilient Planet. Balsillie awarded George Soros with the CIC Globalist of the Year award on Nov. 15, 2010, in Toronto, Canada. The CIGI (Centre for International Governance Innovation) globalism school in Kitchener/Waterloo, Canada, is run by Jim Balsillie.

Peterson was put in place by his spawn-producing think-tank mentors on a U.N. panel that produced a document that is essentially a NWO blueprint. This document was later built upon and referenced by a U.N. panel that John Podesta sat on called The United Nations High-Level Panel of Eminent Persons on the Post-2015 Development Agenda.

Jewish psychologist Norman Doidge, who’s a colleague and personal friend of Peterson and with whom he sometimes gives talks, wrote the foreword to Peterson’s new book “12 Rules for Life.” Dodge also comes out of the CIGI network. In the book foreword, Doidge wrote that a Jewish TV producer named Wodek Szemberg, who was “always on the lookout for potential public intellectuals,” met Peterson in 2004. Szemberg worked at TV Ontario producing a show called “The Agenda,” and it was also involved with CIGI. Suffices to say, Peterson as a made man had help- lots of it.

He did his post-doctoral work under Maurice Dongier. Dongier obtained his degree in psychiatry in 1954 at McGill University, training at the Allan Memorial Institute. The Allan Memorial Institute was founded and directed by Donald Ewen Cameron, who was contracted by the CIA to conduct MKUltra mind control experiments at McGill between the years 1957 and 1964. After completing his post-doc, Peterson then went on to teach at Harvard for five years, taking up Timothy Leary’s old position. Quite a pedigree there, Ace.
Inane, schizophrenic nonsense.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
People's vitriol against him is going to hinge largely on whether they're judging him as a cultural leader or a simple life skills counselor.

Someone judging him as the latter is not going to understand why he pissed off so many people judging him as the former.

Someone judging him as a cultural leader is not going to understand why someone judging him as a simple counselor is giving him a pass.

In fairness he inhabited a grey area in between those two things and he brought the troubles on himself when he injected himself more broadly into politics that had little benefit for his brand of self-help guidance.

Can anyone tell me off the top of their heads what Tony Robbin's position on the JQ is? Affirmative action? Civic nationalism vs identarianism? Of course not. Because Tony Robbins focuses on self help and doesn't toss his hat in those arenas.

I contend that there's nothing to be gained by kicking the dude while he's down but he picked those fights himself and in doing so he gained an enormous public presence and resource streams he otherwise wouldn't have had access to if he'd just stuck to the self-help gig with a smattering of "no, I'm not addressing you as xi/xer".

You take the cheque and get in the ring, you take your licks. It's as simple as that.
 

Batman_

Woodpecker
d said:
People were criticizing him long before his personal weakness became apparent, because he's peddling an ideology. The fact that professional leftist yappers attack him for being "right-wing" or that his books (that differ in no way from other "you have to work hard and smile more often" books on the market) supposedly helped people doesn't change anything. He's still an overblown con-man (and self-professed marxist) that hasn't discovered anything new or groundbreaking, just used his moment in the spotlight to milk the gullible.
To use your analogy, if a guy advertises game and is caught hiring escorts, that's just hypocrisy. But if the same guy publishes books, holds seminaries and touts himself "philosopher of game" making loads of bucks while being unable to find and hold a partner, that's something more.

He has had plenty of useful things to say, especially in regards to psychological literature. He IS a clinicial psychologicist after all and has published many academic papers. Some of the things he talks about are very insightful, especially personality and psychometric statistics (Big Five) and how they relate to life choices. It doesn't matter if the rest of his beliefs are bullshit, or if he's a con artist, at bottom all ideas should be evaluated on a case by case basis and judged by the content, not their origin.

It also doesn't matter what his life is like, all that matters is ideas and discourse. Even ideologies have useful and insightful ideas to evaluate. The red pill is often bundled as a comprehensive ideology, but if you patiently take it apart and reconstruct it carefully based on reason and empiricism, it turns into a hard earned philosophy.

It just takes a tremendous amount of work to test sui generis ideas, especially once they're been untangled from ideologies and other horseshit and you're left to deal with them without a framework.
 

kel

Pelican
He inhabited a gray area between the two partially because of his own accord, but also partially because in currentyear telling young boys to man up and be virtuous is an inherently political statement, since the prevailing political winds say that such things are TOXIC MASCULINITY and a REAL MAN should be a helpless, deferent consoomer.

No one should buiild JPP up into a major guru, but I think time spent ragging on him, who was excoriated by the media and "respectable academics" without pause for years, is counter-productive. We need to take a pragmatic approach. If you agree with someone on 50+% of your core values, fighting with or denigrating them is the narcissism of petty differences and effectively helping your mutual enemies. Engage, critique respectfully, discuss, but save your fighting spirit for those who merit it and try to focus on celebrating and cultivating common goals where you can.
 

Aurini

Ostrich
Blaster said:
Why do so many people waste such an immense amount of time and energy on ad hominem attacks on Peterson? I get bringing it up. It's news worth acknolwedging, it's worth learning from public failures. But all this gloating and mountains of text devoted to continued attacks and womanish gossip just reinforces the argument that you never understood his message in the first place or why it mattered.

Hypocrisy matters when the hypocrite benefits at the expense of the audience. Preaching austerity when you engage in gluttony enabled by the austerity you preach: that's hypocrisy. Diversity for thee, not for me. That is hypocrisy. Making mistakes is just being human. If you preach the virtues of BJJ for self-defense then get your ass kicked in a fight, that doesn't mean you were wrong it just means you are weak or even just unlucky.

Peterson presents formidable and well-reasoned arguments for his ideas and promotes questioning and criticism. It's a very bad sign if your counter-argument is dominated by attacks on petty personal shortcomings, with the occasional disingenuous attack on some failure to provide a simple enough answer to a question that maybe isn't as simple as you imagine it to be. It's a bad sign even if you're capable of generating an entire book's worth of personal criticism. It's still just personal criticism and what matters are the ideas.
I don't want to beef with you. But hasn't this exact question been clearly answered several times?

And as for frolicking over his misery - the only person who's done that, from what I've seen, is Owen Benjamin. The rest of us are hoping he comes to God. And even with Benjamin, it's misdirected anger at his father, and he's admitted as much several times; that it's unbecoming for him to do it.
 
Do we have any good trees left online? Voxy certainly does not seem like one.

I follow a couple of people, but none of them had the attention that Jordan had to deal with. Not defending his failure as a father or selling out to that Israeli event, but most of his advice is not contrary to most of us aspire to, especially the family bit and the self-improvement ethos.
 

Batman_

Woodpecker
Roosh said:
Batman_ said:
It also doesn't matter what his life is like, all that matters is ideas and discourse.
A bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
But that would imply everything he said is garbage or flat out wrong. Clearly that's not the case.

If a liar says something they believe untrue but it turns out to be correct, does that mean what he said is still wrong anyway?


Bitter End said:
Do we have any good trees left online? Voxy certainly does not seem like one.

I follow a couple of people, but none of them had the attention that Jordan had to deal with. Not defending his failure as a father or selling out to that Israeli event, but most of his advice is not contrary to most of us aspire to, especially the family bit and the self-improvement ethos.
Bill Burr lol.

Otherwise, sadly, not really. We've lost quite a lot in the past 10-15 years.
 

Aboulia

Robin
Blaster said:
Why do so many people waste such an immense amount of time and energy on ad hominem attacks on Peterson? I get bringing it up. It's news worth acknolwedging, it's worth learning from public failures. But all this gloating and mountains of text devoted to continued attacks and womanish gossip just reinforces the argument that you never understood his message in the first place or why it mattered.

Hypocrisy matters when the hypocrite benefits at the expense of the audience. Preaching austerity when you engage in gluttony enabled by the austerity you preach: that's hypocrisy. Diversity for thee, not for me. That is hypocrisy. Making mistakes is just being human. If you preach the virtues of BJJ for self-defense then get your ass kicked in a fight, that doesn't mean you were wrong it just means you are weak or even just unlucky.

Peterson presents formidable and well-reasoned arguments for his ideas and promotes questioning and criticism. It's a very bad sign if your counter-argument is dominated by attacks on petty personal shortcomings, with the occasional disingenuous attack on some failure to provide a simple enough answer to a question that maybe isn't as simple as you imagine it to be. It's a bad sign even if you're capable of generating an entire book's worth of personal criticism. It's still just personal criticism and what matters are the ideas.
Well reasoned isn't "I'm going to put everyone to the right of me in a box, and everyone in that box is out of the conversation", it's arguments in an echo chamber. Once you do that, you disregard truth, even by his own standards since it's controlling the outcome. He portrayed himself as a warrior for free speech, and for truth. Which you cannot be if you restrict some people from talking due to their political leaning thus controlling the debate to determine the outcome.

Come to think of it, some of the vitriol he gets is from people realizing they've been decieved by someone who wasn't who he said he was, some of that is going to manifest as an emotional outburst in anger in some people, and why wouldn't people be angry at being deceived?

Bitter End said:
Do we have any good trees left online?
My personal favourite is Dr. Johnson. He's a rebel academic. Here's a paper on Plato's Gorgias which is directly relevant to this topic
https://www.rusjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Gorgias.pdf
 

Sherman

Ostrich
It also doesn't matter what his life is like, all that matters is ideas and discourse.
[/quote]

A bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
[/quote]

But that would imply everything he said is garbage or flat out wrong. Clearly that's not the case.

If a liar says something they believe untrue but it turns out to be correct, does that mean what he said is still wrong anyway?

Bitter End said:
The problem is how do you know what is correct? The reality is that your false ego evaluates a statement and thinks it's correct. But this is not reliable. That is why it is useful to have a a trusted guide outside your ego that can point you to the truth. My meditation instructor was once asked how do you find a good meditation instructor? He said, notice what happens if someone takes his shoes. In other words, if he is for real, he will have a stable and calm mind under every circumstance. This is called equanimity. Jordan Peterson’s mind is a tempest resonating at the lowest frequencies. And he takes dangerous drugs that pushes him from instability into the hell realms. How can someone with this clouded consciousness guide someone else to have a stable mind? Don’t entrust your soul to a fool.
 
Peterson is essentially a Laveyan materialist, even if he lacks the terminology to describe himself as such, who has stated that truth can be defined as whatever helps you survive and reproduce. He is now at the end of that path and the Hell it creates in the mind and soul of the person who lives that way, but God has found many people at exactly such a low point in their lives. He needs prayer, and lots of it.
 

Batman_

Woodpecker
Sherman said:
The problem is how do you know what is correct? The reality is that your false ego evaluates a statement and thinks it's correct. But this is not reliable. That is why it is useful to have a a trusted guide outside your ego that can point you to the truth. My meditation instructor was once asked how do you find a good meditation instructor? He said, notice what happens if someone takes his shoes. In other words, if he is for real, he will have a stable and calm mind under every circumstance. This is called equanimity. Jordan Peterson’s mind is a tempest resonating at the lowest frequencies. And he takes dangerous drugs that pushes him from instability into the hell realms. How can someone with this clouded consciousness guide someone else to have a stable mind? Don’t entrust your soul to a fool.
Well, obviously there is such a thing as objective truth, and if you base the truth of a statement on your opinion of speaker, then you're making a big mistake.

There was a meditation guru who requested his students bring him ice cream with walnuts and would convince the men to let him sleep with their wives. Doesn't mean he couldn't meditate to enlightment and see every illusionary layer of the ego.
 

Sherman

Ostrich
Batman_ said:
Sherman said:
The problem is how do you know what is correct? The reality is that your false ego evaluates a statement and thinks it's correct. But this is not reliable. That is why it is useful to have a a trusted guide outside your ego that can point you to the truth. My meditation instructor was once asked how do you find a good meditation instructor? He said, notice what happens if someone takes his shoes. In other words, if he is for real, he will have a stable and calm mind under every circumstance. This is called equanimity. Jordan Peterson’s mind is a tempest resonating at the lowest frequencies. And he takes dangerous drugs that pushes him from instability into the hell realms. How can someone with this clouded consciousness guide someone else to have a stable mind? Don’t entrust your soul to a fool.
Well, obviously there is such a thing as objective truth, and if you base the truth of a statement on your opinion of speaker, then you're making a big mistake.

There was a meditation guru who requested his students bring him ice cream with walnuts and would convince the men to let him sleep with their wives. Doesn't mean he couldn't meditate to enlightment and see every illusionary layer of the ego.
If a mathematician is an alcoholic but comes up with a theorem, the theorem can be objectively verified as true independent of the condition of the mathematician. But if I am choosing a partner that I will depend on for climbing a mountain, I’m not going to choose someone with an unstable mind, even though he may say some things about mountains that are objectively true.
 

questor70

Ostrich
I think those who become interested in psychology are often motivated by wanting to treat their own psychological problems and these problems don't necessarily go away just because they get a degree, a practice, and/or a university teaching gig.

I think what people tend to do is reach a plateau where they know exactly what they need to do to get their act together but they don't follow through. This is especially true for over-analytical thinkers. They stay in their own heads and don't put thought to action. I can relate. JP seems to be a person who can formulate action plans and put them into a book but fail to implement them in his own life because he's too busy ruminating and ruminating.

You can say maybe he needs prayer but maybe what he needs is mindfulness/existentialism. After having listened to a lot of his talks, he really does get lost in the gears of his own words, drawing out concepts that could be whittled down to a catchphrase (like, um, clean your room) into long repetitive monologues. This is really par for the course with college professors and it's really not a virtue the way they think it is. Deep truths tend to be compact little nuggets that would fit on fortune cookies. Sure, you can expand them out and explain them, but you don't really HAVE to in order to get the gist.
 
It's interesting that he points to the PragerU which is another gatekeeping venue that opposes somewhat feminism, radical leftism, now pokes holes into climate change.

They have to give you some truth or people would leave. PragerU similar to the Jordan will strongly support Jewish, Asian, African, Somali Nationalism but poo-poo any ethnic nationalism for any Western tribe.

At this time - the first gatekeeper question is: "Are you for giving other Western countries the same nationalist right of existence as Israel?" If the answer is no, then you know that the guy is either a useful idiot (Sargon of Akkad) or he is a clear globalist agent (PragerU). Jordan Peterson is somewhere in the middle because I don't think that the guy is deliberately malicious. The liberal indoctrination of the enlightenment has just permeated his brain far more than Sargon's.
 
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